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Fabricated Notch/Mojang party escort allegations; Twitter monsters spring into action

Baconsammy

Banned
Aug 9, 2011
17,535
0
0
Seattle Washington
I want to defend him for taking her side about this issue in particular. It was wrong for him to comment on SimCity when he didn't know the full facts, but we can assume he's familiar with Holly. He follows her, he's likely talked to her in person, worked with her, etc. So I don't see why the SimCity issue discredits his opinion in this issue.
It goes deeper(or shallower depending upon your point of view) for a lot of people here with Arthur than Simcity. By many he's viewed to be a Microsoft fanboy, so he'll never get the benefit of the doubt from them. For others it stretches back to the Penny Arcade Dickwolves situation.
 

Thorgi

Member
Jan 19, 2013
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I would argue it's far easier to divorce Phil Fish and his personality 'quirks' from his work (especially given Fez was still at least something of a group effort) than Gies from his journalistic work. It doesn't help all of Polygon's writers have something of an addiction to Twitter and tend to comment on any and every mention of their site; it's quickly colored my opinion of not only Gies but Justin and Crescente.

Though I sort of get where you're coming from with wanting people to be aware that every story has two sides, but personally I think most people *do* have that in mind... It'd just be somewhat repetitive to have to always follow up every mention of how someone dislikes Arthur Gies with "But I'm sure from his perspective he feels hard doneby, has a source that suggests otherwise or genuinely feels publishers/developers should be trusted over consumers". I'm sure Holly Green probably stands for a lot of things I also believe. Doesn't change that I feel in this situation I personally think and agree with others she was being opportunist, didn't research her accusation at all and Gies was jumping on a bandwagon.
All right, I can respect your opinion there. I feel like this was the answer I was searching for all night when it comes to the community's motivations, but I clearly went the wrong way toward getting that information.

For this, I apologize to you and the rest of the users. I recognize that in the same way you believe she jumped to conclusions, I jumped to conclusions based on incomplete evidence and made a fool out of myself. Most of us seem to agree that she went the wrong way about asking the questions; at the time the remarks were made, I remember thinking her approaches sounded a little on edge, but when I saw the eventual lunch and closing remarks from her, I felt like the effort was worth it.

You're free to write both of them off for what they did. I'm kind of a nut about second chances, and worry that we miss out on important things when we use one action as an excuse to shut them off.

Maybe I'm a clinger! Totally possible. Again, sorry for anyone I upset, and I'm glad I amused at least a few of you with my floundering.
 

DICKS AHOY

Banned
Nov 4, 2010
9,638
0
0
It goes deeper(or shallower depending upon your point of view) for a lot of people here with Arthur than Simcity. By many he's viewed to be a Microsoft fanboy, so he'll never get the benefit of the doubt from them. For others it stretches back to the Penny Arcade Dickwolves situation.
What was Gies response to that? I was sort of on the fence since I felt the 'offending' comic wasn't making light of rape at all (and it wasn't even a rape joke in the first place), but felt Gabe handled the drama so poorly they may as well have been making fun of rape victims.

Sterling calling everybody who sided against PA "femnazi-cunts" didn't exactly help matters.
 

JCizzle

Member
Feb 11, 2012
10,124
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Virginia
Which is why she moved the discussion to an in-person meeting. The two of them talked in detail, reconciled, and went their separate ways.

I guess that's my point. I feel like everyone is so focused on the Twitter interactions that we're missing the discussion they had in person. And after it's published, we should read it and decide for ourselves. We're making value judgments over a Twitter conversation (and yes, I apologize for assuming Gies' innocence under the same standards).
I feel like you're not giving the Twitter interactions the weight that they deserve. She nonchalantly dragged someone's reputation through the mud in a public setting - that's pretty messed up unless you're damn sure you know you're right.

How would Holly react if she was in attendance at party X and a reporter heard a (ultimately false) rumor that she was making homophobic jokes all night and her friends called a guy in attendance a slur. Rather than attempt to speak with her about it privately, this reporter tweets this information to the world (for all of Holly's friends, colleagues, and millions of potential consumers to see) with a bunch of editorial tweets following about how homophobes suck and they are a stain on the industry.

That's not OK to do, even if you act like a mature individual after the fact. The damage is sometimes done and that's not fair. You can't just attack someone and then expect everyone to be cool with you because you met with him after the fact. If I was Notch, I'd be livid that I had to deal with all of this over nothing.
 

Baconsammy

Banned
Aug 9, 2011
17,535
0
0
Seattle Washington
What was Gies response to that? I was sort of on the fence since I felt the 'offending' comic wasn't making light of rape at all (and wasn't even a rape joke in teh first place), but felt Gabe handled it so poorly they may as well have been making fun of rape victims.

Sterling calling everybody who sided against PA 'femnazi-cunts' didn't help matters.
He was against PA and used it as a reason to not attend. I sided with him and against Sterling. Sterling's response was typical for him. Petulant and stupid.
 

DICKS AHOY

Banned
Nov 4, 2010
9,638
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He was against PA and used it as a reason to not attend. I sided with him and against Sterling. Sterling's response was typical for him. Petulant and stupid.
Then that's a rare situation where I fully agree with Gies' actions. I wouldn't want to attend a convention where one of the two people who run it is acting like a raging manchild trying to get a twitter army to attack people, and while far more cool-headed Tycho always acts way too limpwristed whenever Gabe goes over the deep end.
 
Jun 28, 2011
731
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Japan
What's with all these people fucking up on Twitter these days?

Why is it so difficult to realise that:

A) Twitter is not a private peer to peer communication, but rather a park full of people on little soapboxes where everybody can stop and listen.

B) Some concerns, such as statements that could be potentially inflammatory or could land people in trouble, especially when you do not have 100% verified their authenticity, should not be made in public forum, but rather through private channels.

I have no idea what it is, some new breed of jounos/PR people who believe only in their own infallibly selfs or an ever escalating war for people attention.
 

Thorgi

Member
Jan 19, 2013
512
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0
I feel like you're not giving the Twitter interactions the weight that they deserve. She nonchalantly dragged someone's reputation through the mud in a public setting - that's pretty messed up unless you're damn sure you know you're right.

How would Holly react if she was in attendance at party X and a reporter heard a rumor that she was making homophobic jokes all night and her friends called a guy in attendance a slur. Rather than attempt to speak with her about it privately, this reporter tweets this information to the world (for all of Holly's friends, colleagues, and millions of potential consumers to see) with a bunch of editorial tweets following about how homophobes suck and they are a stain on the industry. That's not OK to do even if you act like a mature individual after the fact. The damage is sometimes done and that's not fair.
Yeah, you have a point. I'm probably letting the post-Twitter interaction define the pre-Twitter interaction. I don't usually appreciate it when writers make the remarks visible to all followers in this (https://twitter.com/winnersusedrugs/status/317685484946063360) and this (https://twitter.com/winnersusedrugs/status/317685585525481473) fashion. That feels like trying to call others to dogpile, when she could have done his @ name before and made it semi-private.


But there's also this to consider: https://twitter.com/pkollar/status/317755352546439169


I think there's room for growth to show the latter side, not the former side. And I think she's learning that over time. And I think we should give her the chance to learn it.
 

EatinOlives

Member
Oct 23, 2011
16,850
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0
I want to defend him for taking her side about this issue in particular. It was wrong for him to comment on SimCity when he didn't know the full facts, but we can assume he's familiar with Holly. He follows her, he's likely talked to her in person, worked with her, etc. So I don't see why the SimCity issue discredits his opinion in this issue.
It's not the SimCity debacle solely that discredits him on his issue, it's his continued behavior and propensity to be so thick-headed about the causes he takes up. It's part of a pattern that he exhibits, so naturally when he jumps on the let's-make-this-non-issue-a-scandal bandwagon people just shake their heads.
 

clashfan

Member
Sep 20, 2006
4,665
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0
Yeah, you have a point. I'm probably letting the post-Twitter interaction define the pre-Twitter interaction. I don't usually appreciate it when writers make the remarks visible to all followers in this (https://twitter.com/winnersusedrugs/status/317685484946063360) and this (https://twitter.com/winnersusedrugs/status/317685585525481473) fashion. That feels like trying to call others to dogpile, when she could have done his @ name before and made it semi-private.


But there's also this to consider: https://twitter.com/pkollar/status/317755352546439169


I think there's room for growth to show the latter side, not the former side. And I think she's learning that over time. And I think we should give her the chance to learn it.
A person's outward persona does not excuse the actions...
 

Roto13

Member
Dec 5, 2008
26,070
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820
I want to defend him for taking her side about this issue in particular. It was wrong for him to comment on SimCity when he didn't know the full facts, but we can assume he's familiar with Holly. He follows her, he's likely talked to her in person, worked with her, etc. So I don't see why the SimCity issue discredits his opinion in this issue.
There's no reason to believe this.
 

Thorgi

Member
Jan 19, 2013
512
0
0
It's not the SimCity debacle solely that discredits him on his issue, it's his continued behavior and propensity to be so thick-headed about the causes he takes up. It's part of a pattern that he exhibits, so naturally when he jumps on the let's-make-this-non-issue-a-scandal bandwagon people just shake their heads.
Ah. Until this, I wasn't even aware. Sorry for accusing others of not doing their research. You had, I hadn't, even if getting the facts only altered my opinion somewhat.
 

Thorgi

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Jan 19, 2013
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There's no reason to believe this.
Why not? They're all thrown into the same press events, run into each other through other contacts, etc. It would be crazy to assume that they haven't crossed paths before, especially since he was already following her on Twitter before this started.

Though Phil Kollar, as evidenced by that tweet, only met her at the event, so it's also not out of the question to assume they never met before. I just find that scenario more unlikely.
 

Roto13

Member
Dec 5, 2008
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820
Why not? They're all thrown into the same press events, run into each other through other contacts, etc. It would be crazy to assume that they haven't crossed paths before, especially since he was already following her on Twitter before this started.

Though Phil Kollar, as evidenced by that tweet, only met her at the event, so it's also not out of the question to assume they never met before. I just find that scenario more unlikely.
The fact that they live in the same universe is no reason to assume that they know each other and have worked together.

And was he actually already following her, or are you just assuming that too? And how many of your Twitter followers have you met?
 

Thorgi

Member
Jan 19, 2013
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And was he actually already following her, or are you just assuming that too? And how many of your Twitter followers have you met?
I could have sworn that I saw him RT something from her before, or mentioned her in a conversation. As to the latter, 20, maybe 30 out of a total in the hundreds. I see your point.
 

DICKS AHOY

Banned
Nov 4, 2010
9,638
0
0
Sorry for being a dumbass guys, but I'm glad I have more information on the subject now.
It's good to show some humility but that's a bit extreme; you just jumped the gun a bit and interpreted the general consensus people had in this thread as everybody gang-piling on someone with a difference of opinion.
 

saunderez

Member
Jun 15, 2007
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If you followed the whole story, you would know that wasn't what she wanted to do at all. She wanted to have a dialog about this serious problem and set the record straight that it was PR's fault, not his, that caused this. Notch was friendly about this, had a discussion, set the record straight, and that was important.

She didn't do anything wrong.
I did follow the entire story you can go back and read my posts as I contributed a lot. If you want people to respect your opinion don't assume everyone who disagrees with you is an uninformed jackass. You're not going to change my mind by saying she did nothing wrong because she did, Notch should have been interviewed privately and then a story written if warranted. What she did was unprofessional and she deserves the backlash.