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[Raist]

Even if this was true, it still doesn't prove macro-evolution.

There is no such thing as macro-evolution. Evolution is a gradual process, involving extremely subtle changes that eventually lead to extreme differences between one organism and its ancestor which live hundreds of thousands of years before.

Macro-evolution is just some kind of arbitrary bullshit step that creationists keep repeating because they expect scientists to show how a mice could magically turn into a human.

edit: omg, just saw your previous post. So basically, humans are special and evolution doesn't apply to them? Well, please explain how your genome is 98% identical to a chimpanzee's?

 

[koam]

Human evolution is one of the biggest lies in history.

If you want to believe that humans evolved and are related to apes, go ahead and please do, but don't force your opinion on other people. Human evolution is not a fact. There is no conclusive evidence that proves it.

The theory of human evolution relies on abductive reasoning more than anything else. It is not based on facts. It is merely one of several possible ways to try to find a connection between the different fossils.

1) Several "human like" fossils were found. (FACT)
2) The thoery of evolution can attempt to form a connection between these fossils. (Conjucture)
3) Therefore, the theory of human evolution must be true.

Fact ( point 1) + Conjucture ( point 2) =/= fact ( point 3)

Nothing more than abductive reasoning with no solid proof. Abductive reasoning might work in other scientific areas where we can test the hypothesis and achieve results pretty quickly. It simply doesn't work in the case of evolution, because these is no way to test it in the short term. We have to wait thousands and thousands of years.

 

[ronito]

Gumshoe, turn in your avatar right now.

 

[NetMapel]

There's also more evidence than just fossils that support evolution. Aren't there some significant DNA strain connections between us humans and the other primates sharing a common ancestor with us ?

 

[gumshoe]

There is no such thing as macro-evolution. Evolution is a gradual process, involving extremely subtle changes that eventually lead to extreme differences between one organism and its ancestor which live hundreds of thousands of years before.

Macro-evolution is just some kind of arbitrary bullshit step that creationists keep repeating because they expect scientists to show how a mice could magically turn into a human.

edit: omg, just saw your previous post. So basically, humans are special and evolution doesn't apply to them? Well, please explain how your genome is 98% identical to a chimpanzee's?

acetone and propionaldehyde share the same molecular forumla, but are completely different substances.

Correlation doesn't imply that things are related.

 

[LakeEarth]

There's also more evidence than just fossils that support evolution. Aren't there some significant DNA strain connections between us humans and the other primates sharing a common ancestor with us ?

As a geneticist, this is absolutely correct. Just by looking around the genome (http://genome.ucsc.edu, turn on conservation track) you'll see that where the sequence is essential it doesn't change while the regions that can change, do.

Every time a human egg is fertilized, approximately 300 mistakes are made. I don't understand why it's hard to imagine that when you multiply that by however many humans are born a year times a million years that significant WILL happen, and the good changes will spread through the populations over time.

 

[xelios]

Human evolution is one of the biggest lies in history.

And I bet you have a theory, which is as solid as your theory on how people are gay because they didn't get enough attention or had too many sisters.

Coming from the guy who said this:

If you are asking for a source, as in a study or a scientific finding, then I have nothing for you. But I don't need a study to tell me something that is pretty obvious.

It's not surprising you're making yourself look like a fool, again, in this thread.

Perhaps too obvious, but your name should be changed to dum(b)shoe.

 

[gumshoe]

And I bet you have a theory, which is as solid as your theory on how people are gay because they didn't get enough attention or had too many sisters.

Coming from the guy who said this:



It's not surprising you're making yourself look like a fool, again, in this thread.

Perhaps too obvious, but your name should be changed to dum(b)shoe.

I am so sorry that you simply can't handle the truth.

 

[Rapstah]

acetone and propionaldehyde share the same molecular forumla, but are completely different substances.

Correlation doesn't imply that things are related.

They do not share the same molecular formula at all. Acetone is the simplest possible ketone and propionaldehyde is the third simplest aldehyde.

 

[xelios]

I am so sorry that you simply can't handle the truth.

You're the one who said evolution is one of the biggest lies in human history. That's the epitome of "can't handle the truth". I have a pretty good idea what your alternate theory is though. :lol

 

[gumshoe]

They do not share the same molecular formula at all. Acetone is the simplest possible ketone and propionaldehyde is the third simplest aldehyde.

they have the same molecular formulas and are structural isomers of each other .

 

[gumshoe]

That is so painfully dense. I wanted to have a pleasant conversation with you. That's probably not possible if that's your take on this complex subject.

I was joking man. People don't know how to take jokes on this forum. :/

Maybe I should have added a "" at the end or something,

Spoiler

 

[Rapstah]

they have the same molecular formulas and are structural isomers of each other .

Oh, whoops, learning chemistry in one language apparently doesn't help you learn the terms in another language at all. It's still a really fucking bad analogy to genetics though.

 

[gumshoe]

How come humans are the only creatures wiith free will and consciousness??

don't tell me "we go lucky".

Just look around you and look at what humans have accomplished in the past 4000 years, no other species has achieved a fraction of what we have done. How can you consider yourself an animal?? Animals only hunt, eat, sleep, reproduce and that is it.

 

[Rapstah]

How come humans are the only creatures wiith free will and consciousness??

don't tell me "we go lucky".

Just look around you and look at what humans have accomplished in the past 4000 years, no other species has achieved a fraction of what we have done. How can you consider yourself an animal?? Animals only hunt, eat, sleep, reproduce and that is it.

Technically that's all we do too. Then we die and "that is it".

 

[Count Dookkake]

How come humans are the only creatures wiith free will and consciousness??

don't tell me "we go lucky".

We didn't get lucky.

 

[gumshoe]

Technically that's all we do too. Then we die and "that is it".

seriously?? That is all you do?? You live like an animal?

While we do all of these things in order to survive, we do soooo many other things that seperate us from animals. Education, marriage, build relations, free will, etc, etc,........

 

[Raist]

acetone and propionaldehyde share the same molecular forumla, but are completely different substances.

Correlation doesn't imply that things are related.

Really? Comparing two chemical compounds to living organisms? Oh boy.

Well, fine then, please give us an example for what you would consider as macro-evolution then?

we do soooo many other things that seperate us from animals. Education, marriage, build relations, free will, etc, etc,........

I have a shocking revelation for you. Animals with a social behaviour do that as well.

 

[gumshoe]

We didn't get lucky.

We didn't get lucky?? so they are the luck ones?? then please do me a favor and go live with monkeys and tel me how you like it.

 

[Count Dookkake]

seriously?? That is all you do?? You live like an animal?

While we do all of these things in order to survive, we do soooo many other things that seperate us from animals. Education, marriage, build relations, free will, etc, etc,........

Animals do that stuff.

We didn't get lucky?? so they are the luck ones?? then please do me a favor and go live with monkeys and tel me how you like it.

:lol

Luck had nothing to do with it.

 

[gumshoe]

Animals do that stuff.



:lol

Luck had nothing to do with it.

so much fail in this post, and I am out. I have an exam tomorrow.

 

[Raist]

I have an exam tomorrow.

I sure hope it's not in biology.

 

[Tntnnbltn]

seriously?? That is all you do?? You live like an animal?

While we do all of these things in order to survive, we do soooo many other things that seperate us from animals. Education, marriage, build relations, free will, etc, etc,........

I would argue that animals educate their young and building relations. Also, the concept of free will is very hard to gage in non-humans. Who's to say that dolphins don't have free will? Or chimpanzees?

So I guess that just leaves marriage. But oh wait -- I'm gay*. I guess I'm no better than animals afterall.


* I guess I had too many females reject me during my childhood/teenage years leaving a lasting impact of rejection. What a pity. But given I was born straight, I wonder if that means I was a human up until they rejected me and then an animal after that?

 

[Count Dookkake]

so much fail in this post, and I am out. I have an exam tomorrow.

Yes, your post is full of fail.

Study well, monkey boy!

 

[Raist]

So I guess that just leaves marriage.

Not even this. Many species stay with the same partner for their whole life. That's basically marriage. And they're surely better at it than humans :lol

 

[koam]

How come humans are the only creatures wiith free will and consciousness??

don't tell me "we go lucky".

Just look around you and look at what humans have accomplished in the past 4000 years, no other species has achieved a fraction of what we have done. How can you consider yourself an animal?? Animals only hunt, eat, sleep, reproduce and that is it.

We're not the only creatures with free will and consciousness. I think you need to go get your facts straight and come back when you know what you're talking about. More than half of the bullshit that's spewing out of your mouth could easily be fixed with a quick trip to wikipedia or a library.

so much fail in this post, and I am out. I have an exam tomorrow.

He's actually right, there are animals that find mates and live with them their whole lives, there are animals that are intelligent enough to recognize themselves in a mirror. Animals can communicate in their own animal language. You REALLY need to get your facts straight man.

 

[Tntnnbltn]

Not even this. Many species stay with the same partner for their whole life. That's basically marriage. And they're surely better at it than humans :lol

I meant in the legal sense.

Humans are clearly not animals because we can make legal contracts!

 

[Rapstah]

And since when is marriage genetical? It's dependant on culture or religion.

 

[koam]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=He7Ge7Sogrk

 

[Beer Monkey]

How come humans are the only creatures wiith free will and consciousness??

don't tell me "we go lucky".

Just look around you and look at what humans have accomplished in the past 4000 years, no other species has achieved a fraction of what we have done. How can you consider yourself an animal?? Animals only hunt, eat, sleep, reproduce and that is it.

The most evolved species is the most sophisticated? That actually, you know, makes sense, right?

 

[Alx]

Just look around you and look at what humans have accomplished in the past 4000 years, no other species has achieved a fraction of what we have done. How can you consider yourself an animal?? Animals only hunt, eat, sleep, reproduce and that is it.

What is your definition of an animal exactly ? Being a successful animal (by our own standards) doesn't make us less animals. Of course we consider ourselves better than other animals, just like we grant more consideration to dogs than flies. But once again it's based on our own values, and dogs and flies are still animals too.

 

[Tntnnbltn]

The most evolved species is the most sophisticated? That actually, you know, makes sense, right?

Humans are not "more evolved" than any other species. Any species which is alive today is just as evolved as humans are.

 

[Raist]

The most evolved species is the most sophisticated? That actually, you know, makes sense, right?

There is no such thing as this.
Also, sophistication is subjective. Everything is relative. We're good at some things, but terrible at others.

 

[TacticalFox88]

Wow...this thread took so many turns I don't even know where to begin. :lol :lol :lol

 

[Scuba Steve]

We didn't get lucky?? so they are the luck ones?? then please do me a favor and go live with monkeys and tel me how you like it.

We got lucky in a sense, by evolving from monkeys we are able to be who we are today

BUT

how cool would it be if we evolved from like, crabs or lizards or something, that'd be totally badass

 

[Raist]

how cool would it be if we evolved from like, crabs or lizards or something, that'd be totally badass

Say hi to your grand-grand-grand-grand[...]grand-grand-grand-grand mother

 

[Mgoblue201]

Human evolution is one of the biggest lies in history.

If you want to believe that humans evolved and are related to apes, go ahead and please do, but don't force your opinion on other people. Human evolution is not a fact. There is no conclusive evidence that proves it.

The theory of human evolution relies on abductive reasoning more than anything else. It is not based on facts. It is merely one of several possible ways to try to find a connection between the different fossils.

1) Several "human like" fossils were found. (FACT)
2) The thoery of evolution can attempt to form a connection between these fossils. (Conjucture)
3) Therefore, the theory of human evolution must be true.

Fact ( point 1) + Conjucture ( point 2) =/= fact ( point 3)

Nothing more than abductive reasoning with no solid proof. Abductive reasoning might work in other scientific areas where we can test the hypothesis and achieve results pretty quickly. It simply doesn't work in the case of evolution, because these is no way to test it in the short term. We have to wait thousands and thousands of years.

I believe that evolution can best be described as change in allele frequency over time. Totally new species have been formed just by this fact; we have witnessed it. In that sense, the micro/macro distinction is nonsense. If you keep adding one plus one, then eventually you'll reach a thousand. Likewise, the only thing that distinguishes species is the amount of genetic change. A series of small changes eventually give way to big differences. Eventually, they change so much that they become incompatible. Thus, they are new species. Genetic drift - the random fixation of specific alleles - alone has formed new species. One might say that this alone doesn't create an eye or any other complex organ, but there is plenty of proof there too.

As for your point, it is not the mere fact that human-like fossils exist. It is the fact that evolution provides the only viable explanation. It is no coincidence that the only other species that walk upright like we do, our related ancestors, are also the species that clearly link us to the other primates. Our understanding of evolution can be so precise at times that we can almost identify the moment at which a change in skeletal structure galvanized our increase in brain size. We can also identify where our ancestors began loosing so much hair. Evolution's explanatory power is breathtaking.

Also, if consciousness is defined as awareness, then it is certainly not true that we are the only species with consciousness. Free will is much more complicated because it rests on metaphysical assumptions, but if we are to define free will as the simple act of choosing, then I would say that many species have a relatively sophisticated ability to process information and choose to act on that information. There is also some proof that fellow primates are incredibly sophisticated, having the ability to idenify themselves as aware beings and thinking abstractly to a certain degree. They might even be able to mourn the dead and have a very basic semblance of culture. There is overwhelming proof that our ancestors within the same genus but of a different species had cultures - for instance, the ability to grasp showmanship like art and personality, imbuing simple things and tasks with symbolism and ritualism.

 

[Scuba Steve]

Maybe throw some shark in there too

 

[Xdrive05]

Chromosome number 2, bitches. Explain it.

Apparently the top-down "designer" intentionally designs his creations to look exactly as though they were not designed from the top-down.

 

[Furret]

So I guess that just leaves marriage.

Experts stunned by swan 'divorce' at Slimbridge wetland

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/gloucestershire/8477351.stm

 

[PantherLotus]

The macro vs. micro "debate" is fucking hilarious.

 

[Nemesis121]

I don't believe in Evolution and if you do then it's your choice.......IMO Evolution was thought up by Darwin while he was high on Opium..:lol :lol

 

[Socreges]

I don't believe in Evolution and if you do then it's your choice.......IMO Evolution was thought up by Darwin while he was high on Opium..:lol:lol

If you genuinely tried to understand evolution, you'd definitely believe it. The willful ignorance here is unfortunate.

Experts stunned by swan 'divorce' at Slimbridge wetland

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/gloucestershire/8477351.stm

"Whore."

 

[Zenith]

I don't believe in Evolution and if you do then it's your choice.......IMO Evolution was thought up by Darwin while he was high on Opium..:lol :lol

It's not a choice. Facts are true whether you "believe" in them or not.

 

[protonion]

Evolution is a lie!!

Personally I will not accept evolution until it is absolutely 100% proven. Like scientists going back in time and observe life for hundreds of thousands of years and return to me to report (with video).


And I really do not understand the supporters. It is like the worst scenario for us.
We could be God's creations (awesome!) , we could have come from another galaxy or something cool like that.But nooooooo! Let's be evolved monkeys.
And if we are how come I hate bananas so much?

edit: omg, just saw your previous post. So basically, humans are special and evolution doesn't apply to them? Well, please explain how your genome is 98% identical to a chimpanzee's?

Aren't we also 99% identical to mice?
And we could be 1% identical for all I know!Did you check it yourself? Haven't you played mgs2?

 

[kame-sennin]

How come humans are the only creatures wiith free will and consciousness??

don't tell me "we go lucky".

Just look around you and look at what humans have accomplished in the past 4000 years, no other species has achieved a fraction of what we have done. How can you consider yourself an animal?? Animals only hunt, eat, sleep, reproduce and that is it.

Your post strengthens my hypothesis that speciesism is often driven by religious belief. It seems that you have started with the premise that human animals are superior to all non-human animals, and then formed a belief system that reinforces that core value.

Btw, dropping a few extremely controversial comments and then leaving when other people get riled up is poor form. I was really interested in learning more about your viewpoints.

 

[Shanadeus]

Evolution is a lie!!

Personally I will not accept evolution until it is absolutely 100% proven. Like scientists going back in time and observe life for hundreds of thousands of years and return to me to report (with video).

Nothing can be 100% proven, so I guess you gotta tie yourself down to the ground in case gravity doesn't exist.

And I really do not understand the supporters. It is like the worst scenario for us.
We could be God's creations (awesome!) , we could have come from another galaxy or something cool like that.But nooooooo! Let's be evolved monkeys.
And if we are how come I hate bananas so much?

We could also be Gods in human form, we could be part of a video game, we could be space aliens - "awesome" scenarious doesn't make true scenarious.
And I'm pretty sure you're joking now.

Aren't we also 99% identical to mice?
And we could be 1% identical for all I know!Did you check it yourself? Haven't you played mgs2?

I weep for your brain.
Or what's left of it.

 

[AntoneM]

How come humans are the only creatures wiith free will and consciousness??

don't tell me "we go lucky".

Just look around you and look at what humans have accomplished in the past 4000 years, no other species has achieved a fraction of what we have done. How can you consider yourself an animal?? Animals only hunt, eat, sleep, reproduce and that is it.

seriously?? That is all you do?? You live like an animal?

While we do all of these things in order to survive, we do soooo many other things that seperate us from animals. Education, marriage, build relations, free will, etc, etc,........

And what is the end of all our education, marriage, relations and everything else we do? It's to procreate, find and eat food, and have a safe place to sleep when we're tired.

I get an education so I can get a good job. I want a good job because with its compensation I can provide myself with food and shelter.

If I have been successful, my compensation ends in excess resources. If the excess resources are large enough I can provide food, shelter and safety for a mate which makes me more attractive.

I have friends and family, relations because they expand my social network and make finding a mate more easy. There is also an implicit quid pro quo in the friend and family relationship such that when I need help they will be there to help me and when they need help I will be there to help them.

I want to have a mate that feels fully taken care of because I don't want my mate to look for or find another mate (therefore I get the education and get the good job so that I have excess resources to use on a mate). I want this because I want to be assured that any children my mate has are actually mine and not some one else's. I am selfish and do not want to use my hard earned compensation to raise some other persons child.

In order to further solidify the relationship between my mate and myself we enter into a covenant whereby we agree to remain loyal to one another and place in negative consequences if we don't live up to the terms of our covenant. This makes it more likely that my mate I stick together even when things get rough.

Ultimately, everything I just did was hunt/eat, sleep and reproduce.

 

[Socreges]

Evolution is a lie!!

Personally I will not accept evolution until it is absolutely 100% proven. Like scientists going back in time and observe life for hundreds of thousands of years and return to me to report (with video).

Evolution has been observed over decades, let alone hundreds of thousands of years.

Watch this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zi8FfMBYCkk

What is your response?

And I really do not understand the supporters. It is like the worst scenario for us.
We could be God's creations (awesome!) , we could have come from another galaxy or something cool like that.But nooooooo! Let's be evolved monkeys.

Well, think about that. Why WOULD people support such an unromantic scenario? Because it simply makes sense. I'm not going to deny realities simply because they're not attractive to me.

And if we are how come I hate bananas so much?

The new "Why we still got monkeys?", ladies and gentlemen.

[edit] "How come I hate bananas?" :lol :lol

 

[Snowman Prophet of Doom]

How do you know that we have free will?