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Fall 2010 Anime Thread: Reboots, Retreads, and Rediscovery

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Jexhius said:
.gifs now, serious arguments later. I gotta eat.

The direction of Kuragehime is leaps and bounds better than OreImo, which is average (so many shows are so bad that occasionally I loose sight of what 'average' is.)

This is not the same as animation or production quality, plenty of shows can have pretty animation without being any good.
Come on now, there's a reason I used both direction and art style in that last sentence, because I was discussing them as separate topics.

Art and direction wise I think the two shows are equal, musically Kuragehime is better than OreImo and base plot wise Kuragehime is probably also better than OreImo. I'm not saying Kuragehime is bad, heck I find Squid Girl fun and I'd rank it technically below both of the aforementioned titles yet I like it and not OreImo.

That said, I would say that Kuregahime's direction is "fancier," but I don't always find that kind of direction superior, else I'd like the movie "Brick."

But don't bother typing that much, no way I'd invest the amount of time to properly counter that.
 
Otome%20Yokai%20Zakuro%20-%2006%20%5B720p%5D.mkv_snapshot_06.29_%5B2010.11.09_02.05.19%5D.jpg


Because they think you're cute, dummy.
 
I guess I should use this lull to ask exactly which direction Jexhius is talking about.

I'm referring to story direction but if he was going to do a post on an OP then he must be talking visual or camera direction. I wish I knew art terms more so I could be clear on those.

If he's talking camera or visual direction I don't see what that has to do with the show being any good, although I would say it does indeed have a better visual direction than OreImo and a more varied one as well, not that I find the latter always necessary. But in my opinion that type of direction is just as important(or unimportant if you wish) as animation or production quality, both of which you seemed to find not so important where I'd say all three are ultimately pretty unimportant.
 
Halycon said:
Discussability (yes it is now a word): Kuragehime <<<<<<<<<<< Ore Imo
It terms of that OreImo owns every show this season. The size of the ore imo thread is a testament to that.
 
Even Kuragehime's OP is thoughtfully constructed beyond just being visually coherent.

We open with this set of images:

kop1.jpg

kop2.jpg

kop3.jpg


These images all share some things in common: they are tightly framed details of a body. Not the whole thing at once, and importantly not the face. This is because Tsukimi is a very shy girl. She won't even introduce herself with one picture, we have build to the revelation through these small snapshots of her.

Of course, what still images can't display in this finer details of the animation as she holds her body in a very nervous and shy fashion. Many of the characters traits have been introduced using the minimum of shots and images.

Finally, we get the whole image :

kop4.jpg


Note that even though she's the main character, she doesn't dominate the frame. That would not be consistent with her personality. Consistent with what the snippets displayed, Tsukimi is holding herself in a very shy manner. We can't even see her eyes (this picture may be low resolution, but trust me).

And then we get some Kuranosuke:

kop5.jpg


The contrast between them couldn't be any sharper. Kuranosuke is standing confidently, his frame is far larger than hers, he's taller, better dressed, more traditionally feminine etc.

Importantly when he appears we see Tsukimi's eyes for the first time, he has 'opened her eyes' to a new way of thinking about things. (Alt. readings acceptable).

And so on. This is all good visual storytelling, achieved with no dialogue and with an impressively small number of frames.
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mAcOdIn said:
I guess I should use this lull to ask exactly which direction Jexhius is talking about.

If he's talking camera or visual direction I don't see what that has to do with the show being any good, although I would say it does indeed have a better visual direction than OreImo and a more varied one as well, not that I find the latter always necessary.
By good direction I mean good film form. Which is :

Cinematography : Lighting, Framing, Camera Movements, Lens etc
Editing : Continuous or Discontinuous, slow or fast, Kuleshov effect (if present)
Sound: Diagetic (dialouge, sound effects, ambient sounds) and Non-Diagetic (Music, Voice-over)
Mise en Scene - Cinematography, Movement within the show, Propts and costume, Settings/Sets, Actors, Space
Performance : Of characters/actors

And good direction is what separates bad shows from good shows and average shows. The material in itself can only be understood through the lens of the director, any reaction or feeling the audience get from a show is wholly the product of the efforts of the direction, and those involved in that process.​
 
Geneijin said:
Winter2011.jpg[img][/QUOTE]

BEELZEBUB!! Banzai! banzai! banzai!

And that's pretty much it, will probably be suckered into watching Mitsudomoe again, read a bit of the KnT manga so I know something will happen this time round.
 
As much as I shit on OreImo, that description for Onii-chan whateverthehellwhocares reminds me that you can do far far far worse than a merely unfunny generic otakubait piece.
 
Demon Maiden Zakuro 6:

Ganryu, you shouldn't worry that spirit girls protecting you means you lose your man card. No, you lose it for being all moody and crying a bunch about it.
 
Lafiel said:
People have bad taste because they enjoy watching a show you don't like? :lol
Of course. And also because it's a terrible show that's about otaku self-indulgent fantasies instead of anything real.
 
OreImo is an incredibly average show, although why it's been discussed more then certain better shows isn't hard to fathom.
 
Milky Holmes 05 -- :lol Evil bishie guy has a body pillow of himself, and is in love with it? Heh... Also, adorable kitty (and evil, evil thieves who kidnap our heroines' pet!). Other than that the characters are a bit annoyingly predictable, as if people wouldn't notice that Mary and Kate were evil... though of course it all worked out happily in the end, but still, why must anime main characters almost always be stupid...

Oh well, funny episode. Of course it's a comedy show so it should be, and it was. Finally, we see the mushroom stove again, except being used at a proper time this time! :) As for the rest of it, the fight between the two groups of badguys started out allright, though the way Mary and Kate won was kind of screwed up... though that was the point of course.

Star Driver 06 -- This show has such terrible pacing, such poor fights, and such a lame plot...but somehow it is slightly better than its parts, and while the first half of this episode was completely standard for the series the second part changed things slightly. Allright episode, for this series.

Also, yeah, I agree that the girl in the cage's story might be more interesting than the actual plot of the series so far. Though I still don't know why she's telling it, I don't remember her being threatened, I mean apart from losing her powers and then being locked in a cage that is (though those things definitely could be enough).
 
Jexhius said:
OreImo is an incredibly average show, although why it's been discussed more then certain better shows isn't hard to fathom.
Well, duh.

Stuff like OreImo is why the anime industry continues to eat its own tail. It's going to be hard to convince people outside of the current fandom that it's worth getting into when they see the kind of shows that are popular.
 
A Black Falcon said:
Also, yeah, I agree that the girl in the cage's story might be more interesting than the actual plot of the series so far. Though I still don't know why she's telling it
Every episode what she's saying generally relates to the main plot of the episode.

It's like Watchmen's Black Freighter.
 
Jexhius said:
Every episode what she's saying generally relates to the main plot of the episode.
It'd be crappy writing if it didn't.

I hope they pick up the pace now and start explaining some motivations for someone. It's harder to care about a story when everyone's motives are a cipher.
 
Lafiel said:
People have bad taste because they enjoy watching a show you don't like? :lol
Of course, nothing is so simple. However.

Bad taste and good taste may be inherently strange notions (how do you rank subjectivity?), but we still use them in our day to day lives. Some of my friends like the same kinds of shows I do, my other friends think pretty bad movies are good. We weigh these things up in our mind when deciding to follow any of their recommendations.

The internet, and especially NeoGaf, is no different. We already know the track record of certain posters, and for everyone else we come to snap judgements.

For example, here's how I feel about certain comments from the OreImo thread. I use them, fairly or not to create, judgements about those posters. Which is just human nature, there's no point pretending that we don't do the same.

Thought out opinion -
cosmicblizzard said:
Just watched it. So she goes from barely talking to her brother to getting him to review porn games? :lol

I honestly think there's a lot of wish fulfillment going on here, but not in the traditional sense. Sure, a lot of people will see it as some incest fantasy, but I see it as a way for siblings to get closer. I've said maybe 5 sentences to my little sister in the last 3 years and I totally wish I could stumble upon some crazy hobby of hers to bring us closer. The "cute sister that loves her older brother" trope really is pretty damn rare in real life.
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Reasonable opinion -
Lafiel said:
The show is total otaku pandering. But i had fun with it - i haft to admit i chuckled a bit during a few of the scenes. Anyway so far it's exactly what i expected, it's a inoffensive but somewhat average anime comedy. I'm sure it will at least be consistent in terms of entertainment value though. And i'll probably continue to watch it.:lol
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Admits to poor taste-
Jasconius said:
Watched episode 1, was better than I was expecting. I'll probably enjoy it, but then again I loved KissxSis too ;p
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Claims that the show is unique, when really it's a basic twist on an old premise-
icecream said:
It's both: the story is pretty unique (as far as this type of theme goes), and the character designs are cute. It's certainly not for everyone, but it doesn't really go niche in its appeal.

Interactive Fiction said:
The premise of this show really is kind of genius.
Rather than focus on some male otaku who likes eroge, make the protagonist the little sister.
That makes the whole premise less creepy, and much more humorous and entertaining.
The title of the anime works on several levels.
This show has single handedly pulled me back in to watching anime again.
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hamchan said:
I haven't watched anime in over a year due to general terribleness. Maybe I will watch this one.
I'm not sure where replies like this come from. Humans have an instinctual desire to follow crowds. When something generates a certain number of replies, people assume it must be about something important. Of course, this is often because what is popular is also what is good, but the internet might lead you to believe the opposite is true.

In this case though, hamchan found a show they enjoyed a lot, so in that regard all those things worked perfectly.
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And so on. Of course, I don't think that everything these posters say is good or bad based off of their views in one topic, but it informs how I consider their opinions over time.
 
I haven't watched too many stuff this season, but to me OreImo is the best show so far of what I've watched.

Star Driver, aside for the transformation sequence and the opening style, is just an ugly show (character wise) that's also boring to follow as the story simply doesn't seem to be really advancing too much (well, except for the last episode, which was the best one yet), with a few funny scenes.

Kuragehime is interesting, nice and with good production values, but nothing special (then again, I've only watched the irst episode). The comedy bits made me just smile in the first volume of the manga, and they did nothing for me in the anime (except for the Heidi bit).

OreImo is good to look at, with nice character designs, and full of nice, funny comedy bits.

Index I still have to watch the second episode, the first wasn't shit but was pointless enough to kill much of my enthusiasm.
 
I'm oddly enamored with Star Driver's character design. They all look weird but are also strangely appealing--even Wako.

That said, the characters all look better either in their kiraboshi~ costumes or in mecha... that is, when you can't see their eyes. Those eyes.

Branduil said:
Just be glad this isn't gaming-side where you get banned for having wrong opinions.
How odd, why are those crazy people who think Fallout 3 is better than New Vegas not banned.
 
Dresden said:
I'm oddly enamored with Star Driver's character design. They all look weird but are also strangely appealing--even Wako.

That said, the characters all look better either in their kiraboshi~ costumes or in mecha... that is, when you can't see their eyes. Those eyes.

Exactly! The eyes are what really bugs me of the design. The necks in the first episode also annoyed me, but I stopped noticing it. Those eyes though...
 
Lain said:
Exactly! The eyes are what really bugs me of the design. The necks in the first episode also annoyed me, but I stopped noticing it. Those eyes though...
I just tell myself they're meant to look a bit like fishes, as if they were just creatures caught in a giant time-loop fishbowl. One fabulous fishbowl.

Yeah, they're pretty bad. :lol You get used to them though, at least I did.
 
And anyway, I seriously doubt anyone rational goes "This poster has one opinion about one show I disagree with, better put them on ignore because they clearly have worse taste than Tony Montana!".

Branduil said:
The character designs in Star Driver are kind of bad. The mecha designs are much better.
I blame the eyes.

I also hear comments about giraffe necks but they look fine to me *wraps long neck up in scaf*
 
And anyway, I seriously doubt anyone rational goes "This poster has one opinion about one show I disagree with, better put them on ignore because they clearly have worse taste than Tony Montana!".
When it comes to people who personally rec me stuff. I don't ignore the person recommending me something whom i disagree with the most, i just put their recommendations on lower priority then the recommendations i get from people whom i do trust when it comes to taste.:lol there are some exceptions to that case, like if someone recommended me strike witches for example, i don't think I'd ever take that recommendation seriously.
 
Any recommendations for a fan of manly 80's anime and shows like Bebop, Champloo, Monster, Paranoia Agent, FLCL, Mononoke, Mushishi, etc? I'm looking at the new shows on Crunchyroll and nothing immediately jumps out as appealing to me (although I did give Panty & Stocking a try - love the artstyle, but the content? Not so much) - so yeah, if you could recommend any shows, new or old, you guys think I might like, that'd be most appreciated.
 
Branduil said:
Of course. And also because it's a terrible show that's about otaku self-indulgent fantasies instead of anything real.

Are you saying that fantasies don't exist

Are you saying that fantasies aren't real

I'm not sure which way to go with this one
 
Bootaaay said:
Any recommendations for a fan of manly 80's anime and shows like Bebop, Champloo, Monster, Paranoia Agent, FLCL, Mononoke, Mushishi, etc? I'm looking at the new shows on Crunchyroll and nothing immediately jumps out as appealing to me (although I did give Panty & Stocking a try - love the artstyle, but the content? Not so much) - so yeah, if you could recommend any shows, new or old, you guys think I might like, that'd be most appreciated.
Sounds like Tatami Galaxy would be good for you, if you haven't watched it.

Give Cobra a try, maybe. Quaint and fun. A throwback to the days when heroes weren't pretty lads and all the women wore bikinis for no reason at all.

http://www.crunchyroll.com/cobra
 
Jintor said:
Are you saying that fantasies don't exist

Are you saying that fantasies aren't real

I'm not sure which way to go with this one
Those specific fantasies do not exist in any meaningful relation the real world.
 
Branduil said:
Those specific fantasies do not exist in any meaningful relation the real world.

Neither do giant robots

I'm not seeing the point here

Bootaaay said:
Any recommendations for a fan of manly 80's anime and shows like Bebop, Champloo, Monster, Paranoia Agent, FLCL, Mononoke, Mushishi, etc? I'm looking at the new shows on Crunchyroll and nothing immediately jumps out as appealing to me (although I did give Panty & Stocking a try - love the artstyle, but the content? Not so much) - so yeah, if you could recommend any shows, new or old, you guys think I might like, that'd be most appreciated.

Tengen Toppa Gurren-Lagann might fit your bill
 
Bootaaay said:
Any recommendations for a fan of manly 80's anime and shows like Bebop, Champloo, Monster, Paranoia Agent, FLCL, Mononoke, Mushishi, etc? I'm looking at the new shows on Crunchyroll and nothing immediately jumps out as appealing to me (although I did give Panty & Stocking a try - love the artstyle, but the content? Not so much) - so yeah, if you could recommend any shows, new or old, you guys think I might like, that'd be most appreciated.
You seem to like most of my favorite shows so I'd just throw out some general recommendations. (although you possibly might have already seen some of these but I'd recommend them just in case)

Planetes
Tatami galaxy
Kemonozume
Kino's journey
Crest of the stars / Banner series.
GitS : Stand alone complex
Black lagoon
Haibane renmei
Baccano!
Legend of galactic heroes
 
Bootaaay said:
Any recommendations for a fan of manly 80's anime and shows like Bebop, Champloo, Monster, Paranoia Agent, FLCL, Mononoke, Mushishi, etc? I'm looking at the new shows on Crunchyroll and nothing immediately jumps out as appealing to me (although I did give Panty & Stocking a try - love the artstyle, but the content? Not so much) - so yeah, if you could recommend any shows, new or old, you guys think I might like, that'd be most appreciated.

You should definitely watch Baccano! if you haven't already. I believe Funimation has the entire series on Youtube- the dub is very good.

You should also check out
-Now and Then, Here and There
-Infinite Ryvius
-Dennou Coil
-Fullmetal Alchemist
-Haibane Renmei
-Kino's Journey
-Time of Eve
-The Girl Who Leapt Through Time
 
Jintor said:
Neither do giant robots

I'm not seeing the point here
Giant robots aren't usually characters, although there are exceptions.

But in any case, giant robot shows are usually vehicles for exploring some aspect of humanity. A show like Oreimo isn't about exploring some aspect of humanity, it's anime engaging in narcissistic worship of its own cliches which have been distorted over time to such a degree that there is no longer a connection to how real people act.
 
Branduil said:
Giant robots aren't usually characters, although there are exceptions.

But in any case, giant robot shows are usually vehicles for exploring some aspect of humanity. A show like Oreimo isn't about exploring some aspect of humanity, it's anime engaging in narcissistic worship of its own cliches which have been distorted over time to such a degree that there is no longer a connection to how real people act.

Isn't there? What I see in it (and this is an extremely basic interpretation as I haven't had the time to watch more than a few episodes yet) is that this is a person who is ashamed of her hobby. God knows I wonder if I'm a freak for liking anime sometimes. Is that a narcissistic worship of its own cliches? The fact that it uses its own medium to explore concepts surrounding how people interpret and absorb that medium doesn't automatically make it a narcissistic piece of work. Is a film about film critics or a book about writers automatic douchebaggery?

I admit that the show isn't fantastic but it is, at the least, watchable and interesting.
 
The Subaru X Gainax anime project is going to be about astronomy? I'm in. It's unconfirmed for Winter '11 apparently.

Jexhius said:
I'm not sure where replies like this come from. Humans have an instinctual desire to follow crowds. When something generates a certain number of replies, people assume it must be about something important. Of course, this is often because what is popular is also what is good, but the internet might lead you to believe the opposite is true.
At least the internet allows one the opportunity to find like-minded others, for both the good and the bad. An outlet of sorts. It's just as easy to avoid something as it is to get involved with. Outside of the internet, I found no such luxury when I went through the public education system. When I was young, I was predisposed to thinking more emotionally than rationally. Oh, how naive I was.

Bootaaay said:
Any recommendations for a fan of manly 80's anime and shows like Bebop, Champloo, Monster, Paranoia Agent, FLCL, Mononoke, Mushishi, etc? I'm looking at the new shows on Crunchyroll and nothing immediately jumps out as appealing to me (although I did give Panty & Stocking a try - love the artstyle, but the content? Not so much) - so yeah, if you could recommend any shows, new or old, you guys think I might like, that'd be most appreciated.
Hajime no Ippo
Fantastic Children
 
Jintor said:
Isn't there? What I see in it (and this is an extremely basic interpretation as I haven't had the time to watch more than a few episodes yet) is that this is a person who is ashamed of her hobby. God knows I wonder if I'm a freak for liking anime sometimes. Is that a narcissistic worship of its own cliches? The fact that it uses its own medium to explore concepts surrounding how people interpret and absorb that medium doesn't automatically make it a narcissistic piece of work. Is a film about film critics or a book about writers automatic douchebaggery?

I admit that the show isn't fantastic but it is, at the least, watchable and interesting.
Depends. Is the film or book about a little sister who loves little sister porn?
 
Branduil said:
Depends. Is the film or book about a little sister who loves little sister porn?
It's hard to take you seriously when you say things like this. It seems really narrow-minded how you shoot it down on that alone, and Geneijin even said what it was actually about in the quote you posted. All I'm getting is that you are pre-disposed to hating it on that one aspect of the show. It isn't a well thought out opinion it is blatant stone-walling.
 
An aspect of a show which completely destroys suspension of disbelief is a perfectly valid reason to dislike a show. Especially when that aspect is part of the premise.
 
Branduil said:
An aspect of a show which completely destroys suspension of disbelief is a perfectly valid reason to dislike a show. Especially when that aspect is part of the premise.

It's teneous but it holds. I have enough faith in the vast and ridiculous variety of people out there that somewhere somehow there may be a girl who likes that stuff. I mean, jesus, there are all sorts of people out there, I don't hold their rarity against them.

Besides, it's partially exaggeration - make that anime type that she likes the most inappropriate possible (without going completely overboard, of course) in order to drive home the message that whatever bizarre crap it is that you like, it need not affect you as a person unless you want it to. Or whatever.

It's difficult to find parallel metaphors in other genres (writers re writing, film makers/actors/critics re films etc) because of how specific this one is, but dismissing it entirely based on the concept alone is like dismissing Evangelion because, man, fuck anime.
 
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