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[Unknown Soldier]

Nixon also didn't order that break in at Watergate. True story.

 

[Spoiled Milk]

Well people are blaming it on her age, which I don't buy.

Also, she apologized. Great. I still can't discuss it? For one thing, it demonstrates incredibly poor judgment. And just because she apologized doesn't mean that it gets instantly forgotten.

MIMIC, did something happen to you when you were younger that made you turn out like this? Did you trip on an email and hurt your knee?

 

[MIMIC]

I, and practically everyone supporting Clinton in PoliGAF and elsewhere on this site, have admitted that at least part of this scandal was due to major wrongdoing on Clinton's part. But we still support her anyway - not because we don't think she did anything wrong, but because we think she'll do a lot of right in spite of that wrong.

You, on the other hand, have either conducted yourself in a way that allows you to avoid ever actually listening to any corrections anyone might respond to one of your posts with, because you just leap to a different segment that we haven't really responded to. (We respond to whether she was criminally liable, you switch to something else. We respond to that, you switch to the personal email account. We point out that the personal email account did not violate regulations, you switch to something else. Rinse and repeat until either something that's actually new comes up or one of us just stops posting, having already covered every single aspect of the emails.)

That's, to put it lightly, really fucking obnoxious. That's why I keep bringing up Clinton Derangement Syndrome - because it seems increasingly clear that you aren't actually interested in discussing, you're interested in shit talking.

This is some absolute, utter BS. I have not once ever said or suggested that Hillary was criminally liable. In fact, I have defended her against the assertion that she was criminally liable.

 

[KingV]

The c means nothing without the proper header, which those emails lacked. I'm pretty sure those emails were determined to not actually be classified anyway.

This is technically correct, but I find it hard to believe that anybody that has been looking at classified material as long as she has doesn't know this. Those marking are very common on classified documents.

When I was in the military, if someone I worked with tried to tell me they didn't know what paragraph markings meant I would think they were lying or stupid.

 

[eBay Huckster]

jesus christ, man, do you read your own posts

it's called a hypothetical. you don't literally have to have said that, it's just a pertinent thing for this scandal

 

[Spoiled Milk]

You did it again.

I, and practically everyone supporting Clinton in PoliGAF and elsewhere on this site, have admitted that at least part of this scandal was due to major wrongdoing on Clinton's part. But we still support her anyway - not because we don't think she did anything wrong, but because we think she'll do a lot of right in spite of that wrong.

eBay claims that most poliGAF Clinton supporters admit she did something wrong, of poor judgment, but support her anyway.

You, on the other hand, have either conducted yourself in a way that allows you to avoid ever actually listening to any corrections anyone might respond to one of your posts with, because you just leap to a different segment that we haven't really responded to. (We respond to whether she was criminally liable, you switch to something else. We respond to that, you switch to the personal email account. We point out that the personal email account did not violate regulations, you switch to something else. Rinse and repeat until either something that's actually new comes up or one of us just stops posting, having already covered every single aspect of the emails.)

eBay then says it's impossible to have a discussion with you because you always move goalposts, if only to bag on Clinton for whatever reason.

That's, to put it lightly, really fucking obnoxious. That's why I keep bringing up Clinton Derangement Syndrome - because it seems increasingly clear that you aren't actually interested in discussing, you're interested in shit talking.

The conclusion: people don't like discussing anything with you because you do this and it annoys them. You clearly just want to smack-talk Hillary.

To summarize:
- Most PoliGAF supporters don't absolve Hillary of her email stuff.
- You discuss the email stuff anyway and consistently focus on really minute points just to keep your brigade going.
- People don't like it at all!

So then you do this:

This is some absolute, utter BS. I have not once ever said or suggested that Hillary was criminally liable. In fact, I have defended her against the assertion that she was criminally liable.

Compare what you just wrote to the summary I wrote above. You did it again! Nobody was even arguing that and you managed to change the discussion without acknowledging you were wrong. In your response to a post complaining about your habit of changing the point of discussion without addressing prior points, you change the point of discussion without addressing prior points. How are you this self-unaware?

 

[MIMIC]

As for on the NARA defense (which I am just now reading), now I see why she used that as a defense strategy. She's trying to get away on a technicality. They say that she can do what she did, but there were strings attached to the procedure:

Absolutely permitted? That’s a stretch.

The Clinton campaign makes that claim based on a National Archives and Records Administration regulation in place since 2009 that said federal agencies may allow their employees to send and receive work-related emails “using a system not operated by the agency,” but an agency “must ensure that Federal records sent or received on such systems are preserved in the appropriate agency recordkeeping system.”
But NARA also requires federal agencies to maintain an NARA-approved schedule for preserving work-related records. The State Department Records Disposition Schedule says “incoming and outgoing correspondence and memorandums on substantive U.S. foreign policy issues” should be permanently retained “at the end of the Secretary’s tenure or sooner if necessary.” Clinton, who left office Feb. 1, 2013, did not provide the State Department with her emails until Dec. 5, 2014. She did so after the department in October of that year requested her emails in response to congressional requests for documents related to the Benghazi attacks on Sept. 11, 2012.

[...]

Clinton can say her private email network was permitted because there wasn’t anything in federal law that expressly prohibited it. But such extensive use of private emails was unusual and clearly discouraged, and she failed to comply with the regulations for maintaining government records.

http://www.factcheck.org/2016/05/clinton-still-spinning-emails/

So saying that she did what she did "because the NARA allowed her to do so" seems pretty dubious. And Fact Check correctly labels that as spin.

 

[Zen_Arcade]

If there is a water type Alolan Mankey I'm nicknaming him Sea Mankey.

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

Even with this report what are the chances republicans will still try to use it as a talking point against Hillary?

 

[DontBeThatGuy]

Even with this report what are the chances republicans will still try to use it as a talking point against Hillary?

Chances are 100%. I'm sure they're already doing it.

 

[DrForester]

Even with this report what are the chances republicans will still try to use it as a talking point against Hillary?

I'm sure there's a few lines in this that can totally be taken out of context.

 

[FelixOrion]

Shit, I was part of the OPM hack and I didn't even get a clearance!

(Would've gotten Top Secret if hired, though - it was one of State's internships from a few years back.)

I was too (NASA intern lol)

 

[PrimaNocta]

Even with this report what are the chances republicans will still try to use it as a talking point against Hillary?

Oh I don't doubt they would still use it because their supporters would still eat this up. They don't care about facts and follow Trump blindly no matter what he says or does. Fuck even Trump said "I can shoot someone on Fifth ave and still would not lose voters" lol. He thinks very highly of them.....

This is a simple case of grandma not wanting to use 2 phones and wanted to make it as easy as possible.

 

[MIMIC]

Thank you to whoever changed the thread title (which was my only request, which I thought was perfectly reasonable)

As for the deleting thing, there's a little thing that has been floating around that I don't know how much weight to give to (in the FBI report itself), but it's still a little interesting.

edit: Reading a news story (which addresses the tidbit) shows that it's nothing.

 

[Blader]

This is technically correct, but I find it hard to believe that anybody that has been looking at classified material as long as she has doesn't know this. Those marking are very common on classified documents.

When I was in the military, if someone I worked with tried to tell me they didn't know what paragraph markings meant I would think they were lying or stupid.

Someone a page back said they worked at DoD and never used (C) to denote classified material.

When interagency classification battles come to GAF!

 

[Valhelm]

Haha, can't wait to see how the right tries to deny this

 

[Brashnir]

If she can't send an e-mail, how is she going to launch the nukes?

Why do you think our nuclear facilities are still using technology from the 70s?

 

[Reagan's BR]

Lot of quotes there.

Unscathed in that she has remained in the race, beat Sanders, and remains ahead in the polls. I'm not saying it hasn't damaged her but the fact that she has remained in the race is impressive.

As for the Trump comment: He's said things that would have eliminated every other candidate but I don't think even he could worm his way out of this one. That said things don't seem to stick to him either. Its a weird election.

 

[B-Dubs]

Haha, can't wait to see how the right tries to deny this

I imagine the exact same way people in this thread have been.

 

[AntraxSuicide]

Someone a page back said they worked at DoD and never used (C) to denote classified material.

When interagency classification battles come to GAF!

Yeah, that's me. My work always used much clearer classification than that.

I'm also going to indulge in some of the critics and point out that "the rules are different for the bosses!" is literally always true and okay. At my old job, if I even brought a cell phone in the building (not even taking it out of my pocket), I'd get fired. My boss? Worked there long enough to earn a 3 strikes rule for that stuff so he could be texting in classified areas and just get 2 strikes.

 

[Advocatus Diaboli]

I'm not sure I buy this excuse:



That's quite outlandish. Didn't she wonder where the parentheticals for the other letters were?

(C) absolutely does not mean "classified." Something isn't "classified" or isn't: it has an appropriate level of classification. In other words, it's either Confidential, Secret, or Top Secret, and beyond that, it could be slotted into one of the Sensitive Compartmented Information programs.

On the other hand, if you had a few paragraphs preceded by (U) or (U//FOUO) -- unclassified -- then one with (C//REL FVEY), then sure, that signals "Confidential." But I've literally seen, in all of my times handling classified, maybe one instance of Confidential. I couldn't even tell you what it means.

This reporting is incredibly shoddy.

If I saw (c) in an email, I'd think it was setting off paragraphs by letters too. Why? Because I've done that.

 

[Speely]

I hope someone investigates what's in my pants with this intensity sometime soon.

On topic: It will be interesting to see how the right reacts to this. They are losing talking points. Actually, it might be more accurate to say that their talking points are losing power.

 

[Advocatus Diaboli]

On the other hand, the fact that she doesn't realize that an email or document is classified to the highest level of any of its component parts is truly troubling. That's a complete no-brainer for a logical mind.

 

[SpacLock]

So basically you're saying she's an idiot? Former presidents wife, Secretary of State, presidential candidate with over 16 years access to confidential information thinks the letter 'C' in a paragraph is for alphabetizing? Ok, so she's an idiot.

 

[Veelk]

Lot of quotes there.

Unscathed in that she has remained in the race, beat Sanders, and remains ahead in the polls. I'm not saying it hasn't damaged her but the fact that she has remained in the race is impressive.

As for the Trump comment: He's said things that would have eliminated every other candidate but I don't think even he could worm his way out of this one. That said things don't seem to stick to him either. Its a weird election.

This wouldn't even register for Trump. You think he can openly make bigoted, treasonous and flat out stupid statements, but a tiny little email scandal would end him?

As for the other candidates, you know how people are losing their shit over the thousands of emails Clinton had? What if it was 20 million? That's what the bush administration did. You want to know what hte consequences of that were? Some routine hearings and procedures.

So not only have other politicians survived this scandal, they barely remember it now. This email thing isn't an inherently major PR fiasco that clinton is immune to. It's the opposite. It's a minor issue that Clinton is unreasonably vulnerable to. It should be easily survivable for her, but people push the narrative that this is some unspeakably evil disaster when, at the very worst, it's an innocuous mistake that is empty of both malice and harm.

 

[GaimeGuy]

What gets me is that wrong or right, however you are choosing to spin this, no other candidate present or past, Republican or Democrat would survive a PR fiasco of this magnitude.

Obama, Bush, Trump, Gore, Kerry, McCain, Romney, all of them would be absolutely devastated by this.

I'm not pro-Trump over here but it blows my mind that Hillary remains unscathed by this.

what?

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

So basically you're saying she's an idiot? Former presidents wife, Secretary of State, presidential candidate with over 16 years access to confidential information thinks the letter 'C' in a paragraph is for alphabetizing? Ok, so she's an idiot.

Which Comey testified could have been mistaken and was erroneously marked to begin with...Oh and it wasn't in the fucking header but tucked away some place.

This story has just grown into some kind of out of control monster that keeps feeding itself on confusion and misinformation.

 

[SpacLock]

Which Comey testified could have been mistaken and was erroneously marked to begin with...Oh and it wasn't in the fucking header but tucked away some place.

This story has just grown into some kind of out of control monster that keeps feeding itself on confusion and misinformation.

So what? They were clearly placed in front of paragraphs that anyone with her experience should know. I understand Trunp is an idiot and should never be president, but I'll never understand how some people can just blindly follow Clinton and pretend she has done nothing wrong. Does she not deserve the same treatment as everyone else?

 

[Neoweee]

What gets me is that wrong or right, however you are choosing to spin this, no other candidate present or past, Republican or Democrat would survive a PR fiasco of this magnitude.

Obama, Bush, Trump, Gore, Kerry, McCain, Romney, all of them would be absolutely devastated by this.

I'm not pro-Trump over here but it blows my mind that Hillary remains unscathed by this.

How much did people care about gwb43.com? That was survived just fine.

 

[brandonh83]

[10:27 AM] passengerpigeon: THIS LADY IS OLD
[10:27 AM] Sea Manky: hahaha
[10:27 AM] Sea Manky: it's totally true
[10:27 AM] passengerpigeon: "huma I can't find my email on the new blackberry"
[10:27 AM] passengerpigeon: "I think it's gone"
[10:27 AM] Sea Manky: they don't have time for this upgrade bullshit
[10:27 AM] Sea Manky: they have shit to do
[10:27 AM] passengerpigeon: "no hillary, it's right there, go to the next screen"
[10:27 AM] passengerpigeon: "I think it's gone"
[10:27 AM] passengerpigeon: "can I just have my old blackberry back"

Holy shit

 

[biggersmaller]

 

[Foolworm]

Keep in mind that if you're a Gaffer, you're already in the 1% when it comes to tech. Every time you post some snide post about how some thing relating to computers is basic and should be obvious, keep in mind this is EXACTLY how the 1% reacts.

 

[7DollarHagane]

So what? They were clearly placed in front of paragraphs that anyone with her experience should know. I understand Trunp is an idiot and should never be president, but I'll never understand how some people can just blindly follow Clinton and pretend she has done nothing wrong. Does she not deserve the same treatment as everyone else?

I don't believe any of it happened maliciously or with intent to do bad stuff like all the dumb conservative shit wants you to believe but it shows that shes pretty clueless or careless about technology or doesn't have people around her that can tell her why things need to be done according to procedure or protocol.

It's ignorance or incompetence which is better than malice, but not a good look overall.

She's lucky she has such a poor opponent this time around.

 

[kaching]

Does she not deserve the same treatment as everyone else?

Who is "everyone else"? I don't think I've seen any other politician's handling of their electronic communications get as much public scrutiny as Clinton's has, with so little to show for it in terms of punishable offense. I think we're well beyond what's "deserved" here.

 

[Advocatus Diaboli]

So basically you're saying she's an idiot? Former presidents wife, Secretary of State, presidential candidate with over 16 years access to confidential information thinks the letter 'C' in a paragraph is for alphabetizing? Ok, so she's an idiot.

No, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that (and I could be wrong about State circles), (C), which refers to Confidential, is basically never used. We overclassify everything. My own default reaction would be to think it was a set-off in paragraphs (e.g., (A), (B), and (C)).

I'd have to see the email in question to see how much it passes the bullshit test, but I can very easily imagine a scenario where she thought this.

(C) is NOT (TS/SI/TK). Or even (S//NOFORN). Hopefully, that gave her pause when her eyes read it. But neither I nor the USG are losing any sleep over Confidential information.

 

[MIMIC]

I just wonder how often documents (that pass by her eyes) have those types of classification markings. Because it seems extremely strange that the department would use symbols that not even the Secretary of State would recognize.

 

[MattKeil]

Keep in mind that if you're a Gaffer, you're already in the 1% when it comes to tech. Every time you post some snide post about how some thing relating to computers is basic and should be obvious, keep in mind this is EXACTLY how the 1% reacts.

And in fact one of the reasons so much hay has been successfully made out of what is essentially a non-issue pertaining to Hillary specifically (it should be a wakeup call as to the fact that IT security and awareness in Washington is operating at a 90s era level across the board...if you think this is the only instance of something like this or worse, I have bad news for you) is that the vast majority of the electorate is just as clueless as she is about this stuff, if not moreso.

 

[Lace]

Why do you think our nuclear facilities are still using technology from the 70s?

Nuclear facilities are still running off 60's looking technology. I was in a nuclear control room about a year ago for my job. It was kinda crazy walking into the past. However, for such critical systems it's just been too risky to update. It wouldn't surprise me if NASA was still using computers/software from the original Apollo programs.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

What gets me is that wrong or right, however you are choosing to spin this, no other candidate present or past, Republican or Democrat would survive a PR fiasco of this magnitude.

Obama, Bush, Trump, Gore, Kerry, McCain, Romney, all of them would be absolutely devastated by this.

I'm not pro-Trump over here but it blows my mind that Hillary remains unscathed by this.

This is such a comical, no, grandiose denial of reality. Literally everything you said is blatantly untrue.

Not only has Trump been swamped with far, far worse scandals that didn't even end him, but Hillary is certainly not "unscathed". And of course, the Bush email scandal that no one talks about.

Are you seriously including Trump in that list? The guy who, as just a tiny sampler platter of PR fiascoes, has been sued by the federal government for racist real estate practices, has proclaimed a desire to date his daughter, has had his wife plagiarize one of the keynote speeches of the RNC from the Democratic First Lady, has pretended to be his own PR man named John Miller or John Barron, and has fired one campaign manager who was facing allegations of assaulting a reporter in favor of another campaign manager who had extensive ties with Vladimir Putin (who then had to be fired yet again for said ties in favor of another campaign manager who happens to run the media outlet Breitbart)? That Trump? That Trump would have been "absolutely devastated" by this email story?

Seriously, I wonder what kind of la-la land one has to live in to even name Trump in that list...

 

[Corronchilejano]

Hilarious read OP, thanks for sharing.

 

[digdug2k]

The Bush administration literally intentionally deleted 22 million emails and the only outrage I've seen of any notability has come from liberals on the internet in the last two years, to say nothing about the fact that even the guy W threw out as a scapegoat didn't actually see any real consequences.

The idea that the Clinton server's treatment is somehow commensurate with how earlier wrongdoing has been treated is among the most farcical things I've seen in political threads on this site, alongside the classic "politicians can't be involved in business after they leave office".

I love that not only do we know Bush deleted all those emails, here we have his SoS admitting he used his private email address as a way of hiding things he didn't want made public, but in the face of every bit of proof that Clinton basically hid nothing people are still like "I can't believe Hillary would be so irresponsible. What a lying bitch."

 

[KingV]

Someone a page back said they worked at DoD and never used (C) to denote classified material.

When interagency classification battles come to GAF!

I think it would highly depend on what you did and worked with. For some of my time, I worked closely on stuff that was highly classified so I was reading classified documents a lot. I've worked in other jobs where we very rarely actually handled
anything higher than confidential.

It would definitely depend on what you are doing. I would suspect that the SoS is seeing TS and secret stuff very often, but that might not actually be true.

 

[KingV]

Nuclear facilities are still running off 60's looking technology. I was in a nuclear control room about a year ago for my job. It was kinda crazy walking into the past. However, for such critical systems it's just been too risky to update. It wouldn't surprise me if NASA was still using computers/software from the original Apollo programs.

We used to refer to our submarine as "the best 1970s technology the 80s had to offer"

 

[Fenderputty]

We used to refer to our submarine as "the best 1970s technology the 80s had to offer"

The solution is cleately using paper mail again

 

[Advocatus Diaboli]

I think it would highly depend on what you did and worked with. For some of my time, I worked closely on stuff that was highly classified so I was reading classified documents a lot. I've worked in other jobs where we very rarely actually handled
anything higher than confidential.

It would definitely depend on what you are doing. I would suspect that the SoS is seeing TS and secret stuff very often, but that might not actually be true.

I will confirm that, yes, the SoS is seeing S and TS stuff regularly.

 

[JackDT]

The weirdest revelation is that the emails marked with a (C) didn't actually contain classified information?

It sounds like Clinton didn't use email at all and used the fax and whatever else for classified documents. Everything else is just people up classifying stuff.

 

[Nafai1123]

The solution is cleately using paper mail again

Make Ravens Work Again

 

[Ape]

Sea manky would be a water/fighting type Pokemon

 

[B-Dubs]

Nuclear facilities are still running off 60's looking technology. I was in a nuclear control room about a year ago for my job. It was kinda crazy walking into the past. However, for such critical systems it's just been too risky to update. It wouldn't surprise me if NASA was still using computers/software from the original Apollo programs.

This wouldn't surprise me at all. That stuff needs to work right the first time, they can't take the time to work out any electrical gremlins or code glitches on the nukes.

The weirdest revelation is that the emails marked with a (C) didn't actually contain classified information?

It sounds like Clinton didn't use email at all and used the fax and whatever else for classified documents. Everything else is just people up classifying stuff.

There's a separate system for classified information, which we already knew about.

 

[Debirudog]

I love that not only do we know Bush deleted all those emails, here we have his SoS admitting he used his private email address as a way of hiding things he didn't want made public, but in the face of every bit of proof that Clinton basically hid nothing people are still like "I can't believe Hillary would be so irresponsible. What a lying bitch."

Bush paints himself as a well-intentioned idiot. So he gets away with it, even though he's done far worse and was president during that time.

People want to believe, they don't actually fucking read the evidence.