• Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!

Fear of a Black President (The Atlantic)

Status
Not open for further replies.
Maybe its not the best way it could be said, but otherwise I dont see what the problem is.

If black people are making a concerted effort to behave civilized by avoiding negative stereotyping, then progress is made faster. The reality of the situation is that there are still lots of people who fear or are skeptical of black people rather than being outright racists(I know the article says there is no difference, but I'd disagree), and it'd be great if they didn't feel that way, but how else are they going to be proven wrong?

I mean, in an ideal world, it wouldn't have to work this way and it'd be all on us whites to make the changes and start being more accepting, but its just not gonna happen like that.

No. That's the problem. Why should minorities and specifically black people, have to go out of their way to be model citizens and in effect; restrain themselves. Not show emotion, not cut loose and have fun, not do what they feel and want to do for fear of being judged?

You're basically saying that one group of people should curb their lives in order to not be judged. That's wrong.
 
Just got finished reading the entire article and.......it's frustratingly true. I'll spare my opinion on the perception of Obama. However the tone of the story that even as a black man you have to act a certain way to be accepted by the masses is completely and totally true.

Most of us here especially black-GAF probably deal with this everyday in some shape form or fashion. The question is: "is it how we are perceived or how we THINK we are perceived?"

Either way the need for acceptance has been taught and or inherited over time.
 
There's certain things that will never change. Any democrat in office/running for office will be painted as a big government tax and spend liberal/socialist, and any republican running will be painted as women hating, homophobic and racist.

Um, you're being a bit disingenuous.

Obama was (is) accused of being a secret Muslim who wasn't am American citizen, even after releasing his long form birth certificate.

Conservative polices could be damaging to women's health and the official stance on gay marriage is an affront to the rights of homosexuals.

While certain trends may appear in our political climate, lets not start acting like Obama isn't getting hit with some things for reasons besides his political party.
 
There's certain things that will never change. Any democrat in office/running for office will be painted as a big government tax and spend liberal/socialist, and any republican running will be painted as women hating, homophobic and racist.

Exactly. So like I said, the door swings both ways.
 
I thought this was a well stated post but...there's just something that irks me. I don't want to derail the thread but why do Europeans here keep acting like there isn't racism in Europe?

I think you misunderstand him. Racism has nothing to do with what he said. What he means is that in most European countries you don't have to put yourself to a race, you don't have to classify yourself. To us, it's weird to read the classification system of the US government documents for example.
http://www.pewhispanic.org/2012/04/04/ii-identity-pan-ethnicity-and-race/
 
Black people don't need to make a "concerted effort to behave civilized by avoiding negative stereotyping."

You know there's, like, a lot of Black people. Like millions of them. Like 13%. You think all multimillion of them act a particular way and had a meeting to decide to act more civilized?

There is zero difference being skeptical of black people and being racist. If somebody's color clouds your judgement about them, that's the very definition or racism. Plenty of Blacks have accomplished a ton of stuff, including the highest office in the land. It is on Whites to educated others that some shit, like calling him a Muslim Kenyan that's going to subjugate America to Sharia Law and how it's important for those of color to learn a bit of civility to be accepted by those of us who are more cultured, is racist because he can't talk about it due to the racism in America.
Look, without getting into an argument over the definition of racism, my point is this:

Black people perform less well in schools than whites on average and have higher crime/violence rates. A reasonable person will see that this is a result of hundreds of years of repression rather than them being inferior or anything, but lots of people dont see that far. I agree its a two-way street and that we should educate on this, but blacks in turn have to make an effort to perform as well. The more of an effort they make, the quicker progress is made and the quicker people that are still wary have very little to actually hold on to in justifying their stance.

Like I said, in an ideal world, it would be ALL on us whites to make amends, but its not going to be that simple. What should be the case simply isn't. I agree that the term 'civilized' is probably contentious, but I think its generally understood what I mean by that.

I wish I could stick around to continue discussing it but I just got people over. I hope maybe I explained myself well enough.
 
Look, without getting into an argument over the definition of racism, my point is this:

Black people perform less well in schools than whites on average and have higher crime/violence rates. A reasonable person will see that this is a result of hundreds of years of repression rather than them being inferior or anything, but lots of people dont see that far. I agree its a two-way street and that we should educate on this, but blacks in turn have to make an effort to perform as well. The more of an effort they make, the quicker progress is made and the quicker people that are still wary have very little to actually hold on to in justifying their stance.

Like I said, in an ideal world, it would be ALL on us whites to make amends, but its not going to be that simple. What should be the case simply isn't. I agree that the term 'civilized' is probably contentious, but I think its generally understood what I mean by that.

I wish I could stick around to continue discussing it but I just got people over. I hope maybe I explained myself well enough.

I see what you're saying, but it's still wrong. A wise perosn once said: "You shouldn't try and please other people."

Look. Some posters in this thread have been saying that all the Obama hate isn't simply because of race. TRUE. But there is a lot though which IS because of race. The point Sean, is that it doesn't matter if a black person becomes so good that he/she becomes a literal God. People will still look at him/her and see nothing but a black person. It is illogical, but that is hate.

So saying that if black people were perfect. Which is a terrible and totally unfair burden to place on every single black person, doesn't make any sense. Because even if they were all perfect(Individuals), there would still be the same blind hate. It's on the people who "have the power" to accept those that don't. Not the other way around. And not directly at you, but I'm getting really angry about this "It's up to the victims to save themselves" that is so prevalent all the time on so many issues.
 
Wha? I am still trying to wrap my head around this...
 
Look, without getting into an argument over the definition of racism, my point is this:

Black people perform less well in schools than whites on average and have higher crime/violence rates. A reasonable person will see that this is a result of hundreds of years of repression rather than them being inferior or anything, but lots of people dont see that far. I agree its a two-way street and that we should educate on this, but blacks in turn have to make an effort to perform as well. The more of an effort they make, the quicker progress is made and the quicker people that are still wary have very little to actually hold on to in justifying their stance.

Like I said, in an ideal world, it would be ALL on us whites to make amends, but its not going to be that simple. What should be the case simply isn't. I agree that the term 'civilized' is probably contentious, but I think its generally understood what I mean by that.

I wish I could stick around to continue discussing it but I just got people over. I hope maybe I explained myself well enough.



The more you try to explain yourself, the more it seems to become clear that you actually mean what you seem to be saying.

And that isn't a good thing.
 
Wha? I am still trying to wrap my head around this...

1) Some people are ignorant

2) To combat that ignorance, the people subjected to it must be their best to be model citizens. While the people harbouring hate get to live...as normal human beings with a full range of emotions and actions.

3) Following this. The world is in harmony.

And this is why I always feel like I'm suffocating. Just try and go one day with a smile plastered on your face and acting nicely to everyone even if they're utter jerks. No. Some people really don't know what it's like.
 
I'm reading a lot of bootstraps type rhetoric from Seanspeed's post which really simplify (or ignore) the issues of justice and education opportunities for the poor and urban blacks. How do you rise up when the very tools used to do so are unfunded? And the social wheels of justice make sure you end up doing long hard time?
 
The article actually went over my head. I don't know if it is because I lack perspective on the issue, or just have reading comprehension problems, but I couldn't even parse whether or not the author had a problem with Obama, society, or both. I saw the anger occasionally in his writing but couldn't tell what it was directed towards or where it was coming from.
 
Since he would be totally unknown that would be true.

He wasn't unknown as a sentor.. And him being mixed was never really a hot topic..

I know plenty of people who don't claim my white half, the point is if he wasn't the president people wouldn't be so fast to claim him.. He would be just black
 
The article actually went over my head. I don't know if it is because I lack perspective on the issue, or just have reading comprehension problems, but I couldn't even parse whether or not the author had a problem with Obama, society, or both. I saw the anger occasionally in his writing but couldn't tell what it was directed towards or where it was coming from.

When you're a person of color talking about another person of color and their reaction to endemic racism, it's not as simple as for/against.
 
He wasn't unknown as a sentor.. And him being mixed was never really a hot topic..

I know plenty of people who don't claim my white half, the point is if he wasn't the president people wouldn't be so fast to claim him.. He would be just black

I understand what your saying but in the context of this discussion there is no reason to question why it is brought up.
 
So is that a good thing or a bad thing? I don't quite understand.

As we stated earlier for the most part being half black pretty much equals black in the eyes of America... The majority doesn't really accept mixed people as one of theirs on the whole.... Unless they are in a great position in life...
 
There are people who believe him becoming president has somehow automatically changed things for black people.

Well, one of the prevailing points of this article was that although he might not immediately change much for black people, he has certainly affected change IN many black people. The demonstration of this thought form - as evidenced by the picture of the child touching his hair - is what's making some people anxious.

Excellent fucking article, though.
 
I understand what your saying but in the context of this discussion there is no reason to question why it is brought up.

Because it comes up everytime.. He was raised by a white mother and grandmother.. True and if mixed people were accepted as say white and black by both groups then it wouldn't really be an issue. But society sees black mixed kids as blacks, no reason to pretend because he is mixed that he truly viewed any other way than black
 
Yeah I haven't really ran into many mixed black kids who self-identified as mixed because they were usually assumed to be black and treated as such.
 
Well, one of the prevailing points of this article was that although he might not immediately change much for black people, he has certainly affected change IN many black people. The demonstration of this thought form - as evidenced by the picture of the child touching his hair - is what's making some people anxious.

Excellent fucking article, though.


Can you give an example of what change he has affected in black people?


One specific thing I didn't understand about the article was the part about Obama saying that Trayvon Martin looked like what a son of Obama's would look like. I understand what Obama was saying, that if you think that Trayvon looked like a thug/criminal, then you would think that Obama's son would look like a thug/criminal, and that you essentially simply think black young males look like thugs/criminals. But did the author have a problem with what Obama said, or did he think it was a good comment? I just couldn't tell.
 
I thought this was a well stated post but...there's just something that irks me. I don't want to derail the thread but why do Europeans here keep acting like there isn't racism in Europe?

I'm not, in Fact I'm currently living in Vienna, and have to see the mental diarrhea of this Nazi hate mongering bastard Strache every day. And the worst part is, he's getting away with most of his despicable shit. Where I come from, the division between italian/german is argued by many to be racial. I am far from wanting to portray Europe as being without racism.

I hope my posts didn't come across as elitist or condescending. I'm genuinely interested in the social dynamics that are at play here.
 
Alot of people also don't realize the pain of being mixed I have a few friends that have some serious identity issues.

Do a little research on Halle Berry even, she said she had it rough as hell growing up....back then you were even more publicly shunned then today
 
The problem is, Seanspeed, is that it places an unfair burden on one group to appease the biases of another.

So let say Im having a bad day as a black dude...a day where any normal person might be an extra asshole at work or snippy at a woman who didn't hold a door for me after I did so for her.

I have to be EXTRA on guard not to come off as someone else's pre-concieved stereotypes lest I be seen as an angry black man or a thug.

However someone else of another race could do those things and apologize without people thinking, "He's one of THOSE kinds of people, when will they learn". LOL

Of course we want everyone to do good in the world, move up, be educated, etc. But to literally carry the representation of your entire race on your back and to be forced to PROVE yourself against stereotypes is the definition of racism.
 
Seanspeed is usually a levelheaded poster, but the notion that Team Black needs to put in more effort if they want Team White to meet them halfway is absurd.
 
I hope my posts didn't come across as elitist or condescending. I'm genuinely interested in the social dynamics that are at play here.

No nothing like that.

Also, the point is blacks shouldn't have to act reserved and have to suppress emotions to be seen in a positive light. They should be held to the same standards as every other race when they feel emotional or act a certain way. A black guy going on a tirade should simply be "a guy going on a tirade" not "and angry black man stereotype". They shouldn't have make an effort to appease other groups
 
Can you give an example of what change he has affected in black people?


One specific thing I didn't understand about the article was the part about Obama saying that Trayvon Martin looked like what a son of Obama's would look like. I understand what Obama was saying, that if you think that Trayvon looked like a thug/criminal, then you would think that Obama's son would look like a thug/criminal, and that you essentially simply think black young males look like thugs/criminals. But did the author have a problem with what Obama said, or did he think it was a good comment? I just couldn't tell.

Kind of a complex reply. Coates wasn't taking a side as much as illustrating Obama's presidential narrative from the perspective of an objective Black Male journalist. That distinction is important.

Re: Change... Nobody affects "all" of anything, right?. Black people aren't a monolithic voice. As with any energizing personality, he had some impact. For example, let's take something many non-black people take for granted; The idea of seemingly healthy family, intelligent, cohesive, holding the highest office in the land. That's baseball and apple pie americana, right? Like even if it's uncommon, it's not unrealistic.

Like Coates describes, it just wasn't real for most black families. Probably as tangible as becoming billionaires or going to mars. However, it only takes a Jay-Z or little Curiosity to make something absurd, possible. So when a picture of a little black boy rubs the hair of a man who looks like him and has hair like him, the idea of being president (or test pilot), isn't so fantastic.

Re: Trayvon....what Coates was saying was that Obama - even with carefully measured words - was damned either way. Reminding people that he was black, was the gasoline on the kindling of our heated National debate.
 
The article actually went over my head. I don't know if it is because I lack perspective on the issue, or just have reading comprehension problems, but I couldn't even parse whether or not the author had a problem with Obama, society, or both. I saw the anger occasionally in his writing but couldn't tell what it was directed towards or where it was coming from.

What I got out of it was that he was disappointed in Obama for some of the moves that he's made but angrier at American society for putting Obama in that position in the first place.
 
Kind of a complex reply. Coates wasn't taking a side as much as illustrating Obama's presidential narrative from the perspective of an objective Black Male journalist. That distinction is important.

Re: Change... Nobody affects "all" of anything, right?. Black people aren't a monolithic voice. As with any energizing personality, he had some impact. For example, let's take something many non-black people take for granted; The idea of seemingly healthy family, intelligent, cohesive, holding the highest office in the land. That's baseball and apple pie americana, right? Like even if it's uncommon, it's not unrealistic.

Like Coates describes, it just wasn't real for most black families. Probably as tangible as becoming billionaires or going to mars. However, it only takes a Jay-Z or little Curiosity to make something absurd, possible. So when a picture of a little black boy rubs the hair of a man who looks like him and has hair like him, the idea of being president (or test pilot), isn't so fantastic.

Re: Trayvon....what Coates was saying was that Obama - even with carefully measured words - was damned either way. Reminding people that he was black, was the gasoline on the kindling of our heated debate.


Good reply, thanks. I will reread the article tonight and see if I can get more of an understanding out of it.

I think my lack of perspective might be affecting my ability to understand all the subtlety of his article.
 
Because it comes up everytime.. He was raised by a white mother and grandmother.. True and if mixed people were accepted as say white and black by both groups then it wouldn't really be an issue. But society sees black mixed kids as blacks, no reason to pretend because he is mixed that he truly viewed any other way than black

You are speaking for an awful lot of people with that statement. As a whole I agree with you but the huge increase in mixed race couples and the kids they produce will have a major impact on people feeling on this subject. I understand your history and can not argue your experiences. But there is an extreme amount of confusion between skin color and culture in this country that needs to be sorted out before we can tackle this issue.
 
the article said:
Racism is not merely a simplistic hatred. It is, more often, broad sympathy toward some and broader skepticism toward others. Black America ever lives under that skeptical eye. Hence the old admonishments to be “twice as good.” Hence the need for a special “talk” administered to black boys about how to be extra careful when relating to the police.

THANK YOU
 
As we stated earlier for the most part being half black pretty much equals black in the eyes of America... The majority doesn't really accept mixed people as one of theirs on the whole.... Unless they are in a great position in life...

I can attest to this. I've heard that "coffee goes good with cream but it's always better black" quip more than a few times in high school/college/around from black people, and white people (and most other non-black folks) just consider me black.

I don't personally consider myself anything other what what I am, but I guess it's some kind of normal thing for people to want to categorize, even if they don't mean any harm. I don't even bother correcting people or I'd probably be doing it at least a few times a week.

A while ago I even considered having a business card like thing with my entire ethnicity on it with exact percentages (ranging from Black to Danish to Seminole to German, there's quite a few), but I never got around to it, haha.
 
No nothing like that.

Also, the point is blacks shouldn't have to act reserved and have to suppress emotions to be seen in a positive light. They should be held to the same standards as every other race when they feel emotional or act a certain way. A black guy going on a tirade should simply be "a guy going on a tirade" not "and angry black man stereotype". They shouldn't have make an effort to appease other groups

Obviously yeah, and I can understand the fear to play into racist stereotypes by displaying a normal human reaction. Reminds me a bit of the reactions I got in the student dorm. me being a metal head and videogamer was enough to paint me as a potential serial killer whenever I got upset.

The problem with stereotypes is that unless both sides are actively dismantling them, they will remain, and in fact being kept in place as a point of reference for identities and cultural norms. This doesn't mean that black people should have to behave better than anyone else... hell that should be the goal for everyone anyway, but that in order for a universal acceptance of cultures, cooperation and mutual interest in peacefull existence is a must.

And that's where I'm not sure that both sides are really interested.
 
Not to keep stirring the pot, but I"ll just leave this here. Let me preface this by saying the views of the people in this vid are not indicative of all Americans; But as a brother who was born and raised in the south i.e South Carolina. I fully understand what it means and feels like to be racially profiled and stereotyped.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0kV_b3IK9M
 
I think some are misunderstanding the article. I don't think Coates is saying Obama is acting white or that such a thing even exists. He's saying that Obama is forced to refrain from showing certain human qualities that we all have, ie anger.
 
I think some are misunderstanding the article. I don't think Coates is saying Obama is acting white or that such a thing even exists. He's saying that Obama is forced to refrain from showing certain human qualities that we all have, ie anger.

Yeah, that's exactly what I got from it.
 
I think some are misunderstanding the article. I don't think Coates is saying Obama is acting white or that such a thing even exists. He's saying that Obama is forced to refrain from showing certain human qualities that we all have, ie anger.

You got it.
 
I think some are misunderstanding the article. I don't think Coates is saying Obama is acting white or that such a thing even exists. He's saying that Obama is forced to refrain from showing certain human qualities that we all have, ie anger.

on a lighter note, maybe he needs a translator
 
I think some are misunderstanding the article. I don't think Coates is saying Obama is acting white or that such a thing even exists. He's saying that Obama is forced to refrain from showing certain human qualities that we all have, ie anger.

Yeah, I did get that, but this is the president we're talking about.
I'm sure that him being black plays into refraining from showing a quality that might be used by his opponents or the public to negatively stereotype him as an "angry black man". On the other hand, a president should be more than just a man, and try to avoid all these sort of emotional outbursts unless the national situation calls for it (terrorist attacks, war, other stuff that enrages the entire nation).

Also, not everyone expresses anger loudly, Obama is calm and collected dude so showing passionate anger would really not fit him.
 
I think some are misunderstanding the article. I don't think Coates is saying Obama is acting white or that such a thing even exists. He's saying that Obama is forced to refrain from showing certain human qualities that we all have, ie anger.

I don't really recall a lot of past presidents showing anger. Anger is not a very attractive emotion, so politically, one would try and do their best to not show anger. Additionally, if you never show anger, you're seen as being level-headed, which is a highly desired trait with elected officials (at least, that's what I expect from them).
 
gattdamn that was one long ass article. so, how many of us had the intellectual integrity to read all of it before commenting on the premise of it?.....
 
A podcast I listen to frequently had a pretty informative discussion about the double standards that black males are held to (in regards to the whole stop and frisk initiative).

You'd honestly be better off listening to the whole show, but at 46:45 is where things really start to resonate with me on a personal level. For those who want to better understand what a lot of black males have to deal with on a day to day basis when it comes to 'actively dispelling stereotypes'.

http://twibiu.thisweekinblackness.com/blog/2012/08/22/twibradio-307-policy-wonk/#content
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom