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Female game characters modeled after real-life actresses. What if that's just what the actress looks like without makeup?

llien

Member
lol, yes imagination is the limit in games that is why play them. but, I'm not the artist that makes them. so, choose wisely which game/art I pay for. if you don't like the art direction of the game don't buy it. or fund your own game.

You know, all that makes sense, but the problem is, there is a VERY CLEAR PUSHING of developers in certain direction and it has zero to do with what customers want, or where the money is (that doesn't require any pushing)
Look what has happened with Kingdome Come : Deliverance for merely not complying.

There are all types of fears of woke mob coming after devs, which causes self-censorship, at the very least.
 
How can her design be off if that is what gorillas attended for her to look like? She is a drawing, the artistic creation of an artist. You might as well go as far as saying that women that do not have a perfect triangular face look off. what is kinda funny is that these arguments boil down to men wanting to get it off fake characters.
Her design looks weird to me.

Why is it so difficult to understand that someone can think the character design looks weird without needing to resort to "you just want to get off"? What the fuck are you on about?

Personally I think the whole conversation and the memes are hilarious.

Aloy looks like she's been hitting the donuts pretty hard since the last horizon game and I think that's pretty funny. Nothing to do with getting it off fake characters or whatever the hell you are banging on about.

Jesus, what's up with you folk who can't just chill and have a laugh?

Anyway, why is it so lame for some people to simply want to look at a hot character design but it's absolutely not lame to white knight for a fictional character?

Plenty of folks love chunky ladies anyway so somebody out there has already strangled Pink Darth Vader while looking at the new and improved chunky Aloy.
 

SirTerry-T

Member
That character model is so bad I don't think it was even based on a real person.

To me it looks like some artists with Xbox 360/PS3 era skill sets made up a terrible looking character from scratch.

It's that bad.
That's a strange statement. I think you mean the tech of that era not being able to convey fully the skills of an artist?
 

llien

Member
5j6hyxzkcofy.jpg
This nails it.
 
They had a problem with the characters face and bigger jaw there too even though it was face scanned.
I think I remember that thread. Wasn't the problem there that some people thought the new models and faces didn't look enough like the ones in older games, which did not use facial scans at all? That's kinda different from people complaining that a scanned character doesn't look like the real-life model they are based on.
 

Audiophile

Gold Member
To me the issue isn't whether they're attractive, it's whether folks are actively changing original characters due to a political agenda. It can't really be proven, but there's certainly a pattern to Western game franchises.
 

Three

Member
I think I remember that thread. Wasn't the problem there that some people thought the new models and faces didn't look enough like the ones in older games, which did not use facial scans at all? That's kinda different from people complaining that a scanned character doesn't look like the real-life model they are based on.
People were saying they don't look like the female actors too. One of my replies is exactly about that. They were trying to make the argument that they made her more masculine but they did a good job with the male ones only and butchered the females somehow.
 
People were saying they don't look like the female actors too. One of my replies is exactly about that. They were trying to make the argument that they made her more masculine but they did a good job with the male ones only and butchered the females somehow.
Different tastes and all that. IIRC DMC5's female cast also got a bunch of mentions in that one thread about the most attractive faces in gaming, along with other characters from recent RE games, so they don't seem to be suffering from a shortage of fans on this board at least. I think overall most people would agree that Capcom did a better job making characters actually look like their real-life counterparts than Remedy, Guerilla, Housemarque or Bioware.

Again, the way these characters look doesn't really bother me personally, and it's not just because I'll probably never play most of these games anyway. I just think it's odd how these studios are willing to go through all the trouble of integrating facial scans in their pipeline (sometimes going so far as to explicitly name and introduce the model in promotional materials) only to end up with a character model that looks so different that most people wouldn't be able to match it to a picture of the original. Why even bother?
 

Business

Member
That's exactly the point - if I wanted to look at ugly people, I'd simply go outside, there's plenty of them. Hell, I can even just look into a mirror. But in video games or movies, which are the mediums where only the imagination is the limit, people expect not only fantastic worlds and events, but also characters that are indeed not common in a real world, people want to see bad ass motherfucker who single-handedly takes out tens of bad guys, saving the hostages, his wife, entire world etc., same goes for female characters, people expect perfection literally, Lara Croft would be one of the most recognizable gaming characters if she was some retired granny from Returnal, one one wants that. And above anything else, people aren't dumb nor blind, they see what's going on, they see the models are fucked up on purpose. But then again, people vote with their wallets, the question is are they able to put their money where they mouth is.

It's amazing this has to be even stated. Heroes are not ordinary people, unless a very specific role, the good guy, the main hero is someone beautiful, and that has been like this today, 50 years ago in Hollywood and 2500 years ago in Greek statues of heroes. The female videogame protagonists of today are obviously made with less feminine characteristics and/or less beautiful in purpose, for a specific political agenda. To blame it on technology, lack of makeup, lack of raytracing or insinuating you haven't had sex with real women if you point it out is just appallingly stupid.
 

M1chl

Currently Gif and Meme Champion
Look what has happened with Kingdome Come : Deliverance for merely not complying.
Yeah and it was fucking sad, I personally received some libshit email from someone, when our email database leaked (or rather it was compiled from linkedIN and some phishing), I don't want give too much info, since it's still somewhere in court (local) but it was wild what happened. Polygon/Kotaku were disgusting for example with their communication, basically that we should explain ourselfs, etc...

And biggest joke was when some 'Merican wrote that he is expert on Bohemia region, because his mother is Czech. Why Americans doing this, "I am 10% German so I am expert on beer" and all that shit. Take a look

Kingdom Come: Deliverance is beautiful, but boring - Polygon

And for the record, nothing which was happening back then wasn't some right-wing behaviour, that's how we Czech's are. It has to be this way, when you are against oppressors like USSR for 40 fucking years.
 

Omegaking

Banned
It's amazing this has to be even stated. Heroes are not ordinary people, unless a very specific role, the good guy, the main hero is someone beautiful, and that has been like this today, 50 years ago in Hollywood and 2500 years ago in Greek statues of heroes. The female videogame protagonists of today are obviously made with less feminine characteristics and/or less beautiful in purpose, for a specific political agenda. To blame it on technology, lack of makeup, lack of raytracing or insinuating you haven't had sex with real women if you point it out is just appallingly stupid.

what? Heroes are not regular people? It's the opposite. heroes are usually regular people glorified.
 

yamaci17

Member
Horizon Zero Exercise: Confined West

Plz understand.
hey what do you know, maybe there will be a weight mechanic, right?

story starts like this: after defeating many evil robots and bringing balance to world once again, aloy went on a long vacation and rested... this costed her heavily, as she gained enormous amounts of weight. embark on a journey to forbidden west to beat new evil robots and lose weight in the process. it will be challenging at first, but by running from question mark to question mark, aloy will be once again fit for defeating robots in her quest.

i mean, why is there no weight loss/gain mechanic in majority of games? supposedly we've in an era where games are more "advanced", "nextgen"...



None of them has things like these, huh. So it was possible to implement such features, mechanics in 2004, but not in 2010+ (i'm excluding the RDR 2, obviously, since both games belong to Rockstar)
 
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Bragr

Banned
I personally never liked scan faces in games because they always something off about them.

I personally like custom faces that most Japanese developers use for their games.....They less realistic but I don't know they feel more natural to me.

Final-Fantasy-7-Remake-Aerith-Cover.jpg
EDBQEZCW4AA_9iM.jpg
All Japanese faces in games, boy or girl, look identical, they only have different hairstyles. I rather have a rock with eyes painted on it.
 

Bragr

Banned
hey what do you know, maybe there will be a weight mechanic, right?

story starts like this: after defeating many evil robots and bringing balance to world once again, aloy went on a long vacation and rested... this costed her heavily, as she gained enormous amounts of weight. embark on a journey to forbidden west to beat new evil robots and lose weight in the process. it will be challenging at first, but by running from question mark to question mark, aloy will be once again fit for defeating robots in her quest.

i mean, why is there no weight loss/gain mechanic in majority of games? supposedly we've in an era where games are more "advanced", "nextgen"...



None of them has things like these, huh. So it was possible to implement such features, mechanics in 2004, but not in 2010+ (i'm excluding the RDR 2, obviously, since both games belong to Rockstar)

Shout out to all the motherfuckers who spent hours in the weight room as CJ!
 
I was a graphic designer and artist. Aloy looks the way she does because it's intentional.

Guerilla Games probably has 10s of artists. Not only that, but probably 100s of people in their team have seen Aloy. Anything anyone here can point out, Guerilla Games knows. This doesn't mean they won't change it. If enough people complain I'm sure they will at least reconsider. But there's 0 doubt that the character model is intentionally modeled and textured this way.

Guerilla Games does not lack the technology nor the skillset. Any artist would be able to point out the the change in complexion, bone, and face structure when compared to the original face model. Even the hairline is different. The model is 100% intentionally modified.

For what purpose? Who knows? It could be because they want to use an attractive and existing face to make the game feel more grounded and have a base to build off of.

But models often look generic (because attractiveness to most people is based on certain ratios) and often lack a sense of background story. Model agencies often look for generic faces so they can form the model into any narrative that best suits the corresponding brand they model for.

This is probably the reason Guerilla changed the model. As to why they made her that much more chubby and changed her complexion to look like a redneck is anybody's guess.
 

MrPotato

Member
I was a graphic designer and artist. Aloy looks the way she does because it's intentional.

Guerilla Games probably has 10s of artists. Not only that, but probably 100s of people in their team have seen Aloy. Anything anyone here can point out, Guerilla Games knows. This doesn't mean they won't change it. If enough people complain I'm sure they will at least reconsider. But there's 0 doubt that the character model is intentionally modeled and textured this way.

Guerilla Games does not lack the technology nor the skillset. Any artist would be able to point out the the change in complexion, bone, and face structure when compared to the original face model. Even the hairline is different. The model is 100% intentionally modified.

For what purpose? Who knows? It could be because they want to use an attractive and existing face to make the game feel more grounded and have a base to build off of.

But models often look generic (because attractiveness to most people is based on certain ratios) and often lack a sense of background story. Model agencies often look for generic faces so they can form the model into any narrative that best suits the corresponding brand they model for.

This is probably the reason Guerilla changed the model. As to why they made her that much more chubby and changed her complexion to look like a redneck is anybody's guess.
They didn't make her more chubby (by this, I mean some people are acting as if they made her obese) it's just 2 still frame where she looks chubby ( 1:from the pov of dude at the start where she's in the middle of talking and 2: where she's watching enemy treat Erend badly)
GG improved the skin rendering tech and she doesn't look like plastic figure. Memes are good, but some people are clearly acting in bad faith.
 
Or they cheapen out on the female models because 80% of Bioware players use the male character.
Seems unlikely.

Anyway, for me, having less attractive female characters isn't even that big of a deal. It's just part of a larger problem in games and movies and tv that's ongoing. It's just one more example.

It's probably not an accident that Aloy in the first game had an emotional range roughly equivalent to the T-1000, for example. It's another common trope with modern female protagonists you see these days, and that's deadly to the story, which is probably even worse than the graphics.
 
They didn't make her more chubby (by this, I mean some people are acting as if they made her obese) it's just 2 still frame where she looks chubby ( 1:from the pov of dude at the start where she's in the middle of talking and 2: where she's watching enemy treat Erend badly)
GG improved the skin rendering tech and she doesn't look like plastic figure. Memes are good, but some people are clearly acting in bad faith.
They definitely made her more chubby. Not only in Forbidden West but also in Zero Dawn. For some reason GG decided to make her even more chubby in Forbidden West.

Lighting, make up, angles, animation, etc etc definitely affect on how a person's face can be perceived, but the difference shouldn't be this huge. If in doubt, look for 10 sets of 2 pics with about the same camera angle and overlap the 2 heads as much as possible. I'm 100% certain that they've made intentional changes, even in Zero Dawn, but much more so in Forbidden West.
 

Vaelka

Member
Imo it's extremely mixed, it's almost like 50/50 uncanny valley to me.
Animations do a lot too, the illusion just very easily breaks imo when it's realistic graphics even in a lot of games that have super high quality models I can still think it looks weird and uncanny.

Some faces probably just work better in a more static sense, but then there are some faces that just look really weird very easily even if they're well-made.
I meme'd about Aloy looking like a fat boy and I am obviously exaggerating, but my actual issue with her outside of her just looking like the frumpiest person imaginable is her head and neck.
She looks like Corey Taylor from Slipknot only with a much skinnier body, in fact this is a case where I think she'd look far better if she was much bigger in terms of her body.
She has a GIGANTIC neck and head but then her arms are like toothpicks and she has the typical thin female character body.

I still think her overall face is just really boring and frumpy, but if her head proportion and neck weren't so huge in comparison to her body it wouldn't look so silly to me.
 

MAX PAYMENT

Member
The problem is very simple. Too many gamers are looking for a human connection with these fake characters. the perception of a problem would go away if people simply look at these characters as art. all they have to do is step outside and meet real women and they would realize, majority of women don't have perfect triangular faces. Simply stop looking at game characters as your personal f***k dolls and problem solved.
This feels like a rather bizarre and aggressive take.
 

Fbh

Member
I can see a bit of both arguments.

On the one hand I definitely think some studios go out of their way to make their female characters less attractive, the whole "evil unrealistic beauty standards" argument has been going for years. Not really sure why anyone would even deny that, Aloy in forbidden west definitely looks chubbier than both the face model and the same character in the first game. The change doesn't really make sense within the context of the game, so I have to assume it's something they did intentionally to make her less attractive

At the same time though, some people get too fixated on these silly comparison between a professionally taken, perfectly lit, perfectly angled photoshoot pictures vs some still of an in game cutscene

Tech also seems to be a limiting factor in some cases. Like how everyone in the RE engine looks weird, specially when in motion.
Though it shouldn't be an issue for the decima engine as Death Stranding for example did a great job at showing pretty accurate versions of the various actors.
 
Seems unlikely.

Anyway, for me, having less attractive female characters isn't even that big of a deal. It's just part of a larger problem in games and movies and tv that's ongoing. It's just one more example.

It's probably not an accident that Aloy in the first game had an emotional range roughly equivalent to the T-1000, for example. It's another common trope with modern female protagonists you see these days, and that's deadly to the story, which is probably even worse than the graphics.
Do you know what Aloy is? Do you know who her mother is?
e9a8e1569b93b72debc6930ff5e741bc.gif
 
In video games I prefer custom stylize face over realistic ones, is it that hard to understand?
You mention not liking scanned faces due to them being off, but you prefer the plastic ones and claim they're more "natural"? Seems a little contradictory to me with the phrasing. Personally I find the Final Fantasy character design absolutely stupid and could be seen as somewhat demeaning. All their characters have smooth porcelain skin with no blemishes, small noses and flawless hair. The same thing as anime designs. Even the dudes have the exact same style:


acc97659328b4033f76f081cf6338543.png
png-transparent-final-fantasy-xiii-2-lightning-returns-final-fantasy-xiii-video-game-character-rpg-video-game-rpg-action-figure-thumbnail.png
cafd64e05beca3b9ed0a7fb6a2c87c2f.jpg
images
 

Danjin44

The nicest person on this forum
You mention not liking scanned faces due to them being off, but you prefer the plastic ones and claim they're more "natural"? Seems a little contradictory to me with the phrasing.
Easy, when you try to be more realistic in video games you notice the imperfection in faces and expression much more.

Same reason why this easy to look at
dbebc6c4a37196b7d6fbeb8f35f2ba9a.jpg


compare to this.
Screen-Shot-2016-07-05-at-11.04.27.png
 

Faithless83

Banned
Not what I said. The render is the face actress. The animation is used to match the voice actress. They don't bring the face actress back in to match the facial movements of the voice actress. That wouldn't make any sense at all.
That's my point, they use the voice actress movements and insert into the render actress. Hence the voice actress will influence the animation of the render rig, but it wouldn't change the bone structure.
You've linked the wrong timestamp. You can't compare a normal speaking voice, speaking cadence and emotion during an interview to acting. Key word, acting. Skip to 2:45 in your video and look at how Aloy is speaking. Also look up other videos of the voice actress doing mocap or in booths please. Research is the key, and you're doing good so far, but you're doing that thing that flat earthers do where they just look up evidence to support their point and don't look beyond that to make sure their facts add up.
If we go to 2:45, you'll see how the original game had her upper teeth showing more during dialog than the sequel. This brings us back to how the jaw as moved to the front, causing this "issue". That's why I went to her teeth in my argument to avoid such comments as "it's the lightning/camera angle" because this wouldn't change her lower teeth showing up more in dialog.
This is a failed mic drop man.

Again, I didn't say 'it's the voice actress's fault', I said they had to model around her acting, which is true.
They didn't model the rig, just animated it using the voice actress's rig. It's like animating a pixar movie, do you think the voice actor changes the design of the character? It doesn't.
What denial? Proof of the contrary has been shown in the thread. You have another dude in here backtracking from her chin, to her ears, and now to her teeth. You going to jump off that cliff with him?
Not backtracking, you are the one changing from "it's due to the voice acting that her chin is more pronounced and her upper teeth is not showing up" like that made any sense at all.:messenger_grinning_sweat:

And in the end you pointed another timestamp in the voice acting booth like it would change any of my points.

I've used enough evidence pointing that :

- there is no lighting/camera angle issue here.
- her chin is moving differently from the first game while talking, showing more her lower teeth (evidence of the more pronounced jaw (timestamped 2:45, thanks).



vs HFW (0:29)


- Male mocap in the same game wasn't affected by it:
Ksj2BnD.png


Enough evidence pointing to an agenda taking place, which people pretend it doesn't exists:

tumblr_ojd95z4IHS1ubh1kvo1_1280.png


giphy.gif


I believe the reason for that is because the for the male, the face model and voice actor are the same person.

Insomniac explained that they had to change the Peter Parker face model to a completely different guy whose face structure is more similar to the voice actor because they were having mocap issues. The original Peter Parker in game model barely looks like the actor he was modeled after on btw. Another example is Leon from RE2:R - the in game model resembles the face model, but you can tell there were changes made.
They didn't mocap Tom Holland because the guy is expensive, the end.
They did recast the actor in order to better match the movies, but not nailing it, as it would mean paying a lot more. Same issue as in the Avengers game.

But it's good people are moving from "It's the same picture" to "they had problems with the mocap". Proves that it changed and "female characters are a lot harder to mocap".:messenger_grinning_sweat:

Sorry Lethal01 Lethal01 for not quoting your message again, but the answer is in there for you once again.
 
Yep the people who say that or get all pissy ("go to porn hub to jerk off, reeeeee") are projecting they feel that way so they project it on to everyone else. They don't understand that fantasy asthetics are a thing. They would have a coniption with the amazing fantasy art from the 1980s.
 
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Yoboman

Member
Yep the people who say that or get all pissy ("go to porn hub to jerk off, reeeeee") are projecting they feel that way so they project it on to everyone else. They don't understand that fantasy asthetics are a thing. They would have a coniption with the amazing fantasy art from the 1980s.
Oh this is actually boomer rage I misunderstood. Yes gramps, things were great back in your day

Feel Better Cheer Up GIF
 
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