I love how many of these are taken from videos with like 11 views.
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Feminist Frequency: Talking about harassment generates more harassment
- Thread starter Lime
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I love how many of these are taken from videos with like 11 views.
Acti
Member
I simply don't agree with this hole deal about games industry being misogynistic, etc. I don't consider myself a GG support but I really don't agree with what she's exposing in those femfreq videos. If you feel offended by a stupid game you should just stop playing and go on with life. I think the she and her troop kinda "stained" the feminist term. There are more important problems in the world than video games and pop culture when it comes to woman. That's the way I see it.
P.S.
P.S.
Sorry if my English is bad.
aww i thought there would be some kind of sarcasm qualifier behind the spoiler tag
now i'm just sad
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
It's funny reading these kinds of posts because they always take a wild turn like what I bolded. They never continue in a rational, analytical fashion.
I still feel that the misogyny you see in gaming is a reflection of the overall culture of society coupled with the demographics that draw gaming, rather than anything inherently specific to gaming itself.
But even that in itself is a sufficiently bad combination that you'll find that there's no dearth of insane misogynistic assholes in this community.
Maybe it's time to progress with the times, rather than trying to hang on for dear life to all the things that has defined the past of the culture.
Why drag your feet with the rest of society? There's no end of backwards idiots there... might as well take the opportunity to show that the gaming community as a whole can actually be progressive about things.
Maybe that's hoping for too much.
But even that in itself is a sufficiently bad combination that you'll find that there's no dearth of insane misogynistic assholes in this community.
Maybe it's time to progress with the times, rather than trying to hang on for dear life to all the things that has defined the past of the culture.
Why drag your feet with the rest of society? There's no end of backwards idiots there... might as well take the opportunity to show that the gaming community as a whole can actually be progressive about things.
Maybe that's hoping for too much.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Its just....yeah
For all that some people might think otherwise, I do oppose broad institutional controls on the internet
But geez, is this environment one we're really satisfied with? Is there nothing we can do other than just shrug and go "whelp its the internet, that's just how it is"?
For all that some people might think otherwise, I do oppose broad institutional controls on the internet
But geez, is this environment one we're really satisfied with? Is there nothing we can do other than just shrug and go "whelp its the internet, that's just how it is"?
LudicrousSpeed
Member
Jack Thompson is interviewed for that ridiculous anti-Sarkeesian documentary, in which he just talked shit on Anita. Some or all or I dunno how much got released on youtube last year and there was a bunch of GG passing around the video like "I can't believe I actually like Jack Thompson".
It's a thing that happened.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
Isn't that what everyone's always said? Gaming's a hobby/profession that got taken over by a type of dude, who make games for a type of dude, and who hire a type of dude.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
Proof that these people literally hate feminists more than they enjoy video games.
shadowsdarknes
Member
you chauvinist pig
JasoNsider
Member
Posts like these, I don't even know where to begin.
- Industry Z is not not misogynistic because I say so.
- If you think X is offensive, please go do Y.
- There are more important things in life than X when it comes to women (says who exactly??)
I think there will come a point in time when many people who write this exact kind of post are going to look back in complete shame and shake their head that they turned a blind eye instead of saying "hey, this is actually really damn bad.." Especially when it directly affects the hobby so many cherish so fondly.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
I've rarely if ever posted on one of this FF threads, but it seems like this one has nothing to do with gaming. Just saying. Harassment bad, of course.
On the one hand, if you use misogynist language, you can't complain when people call you misogynist. I hear you.
On the other hand, when you're targeting someone who you believe to be a villain and your goal is to hurt them, you're going to choose the words that have the biggest impact on your target. If Sarkeesian had been a black male, she might still be getting a lot of the harassment but it would be laced with racist slurs. If she had been an overweight male we'd see tons of fat jokes (we got those anyway, but I digress).
She really struck a nerve and unfortunately brought out the worst in a lot of people. I think it goes well beyond misogyny and "keeping girls out of games" and into an all-out culture war. Sarkeesian is a symbol of SJWism trying to take away the freedoms and pleasures we enjoy (yes, that's ridiculous, but it doesn't mean they don't believe it), so these nutjobs have gone into full attack mode, which to us is indistinguishable from old-fashioned wimmin-hatin'.
Yeah but I've not seen much valid criticism of her work yet. Usually it's just a 40 minute long YouTube video with some white dude sneering into a webcam with a nasal voice about how terrible of a human being Sarkeesian is and how annoying she is with her ear rings or her "arrogant tone" (what?!?!)
Acti
Member
I do get what you're saying... But that's pretty much what I think. I do believe that there's enough choice for gamers when it comes to games. The amount of information we can read about them makes it easier to select what we want to consume.
LudicrousSpeed
Member
The thing to understand is that, for a bunch of the people trying to still corral this thing, it's about anti-feminism first and foremost. They're just obligingly OK with going with the video game angle.
Acerac
Banned
The harassment is directly related to her videos discussing video games.
Consider yourself educated.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
Of course. Most prominent GG figureheads aren't gamers at all (Milo, Sommers etc.).
I don't know anything about this gamergate but...
Sarcasm? Everyone is entitled to their opinion, even if it's not the popular one. Your comment is uncalled for if you meant it. Shame on you.
JasoNsider
Member
Also, these posts of "harassment bad, of course" being vocally outright dismissive of a real issue. What part of this is a matter of course? The part where thousands of people who send Anita the terrible messages do not understand that harassment is bad? Dismissing these things as non-issues is literally attempting to silence those in need.
When you put it that way, you make it sound like she's saying game developers and gamers actively hate women, which was never remotely implied. Pointing out that some game content can have real-world effects on how women are seen and treated is not the same thing as calling the industry misogynist. Distinctions like these are important but are far too often ignored by those engaged in a witch hunt.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
I think the ostensible topic of #GG is "videogames" for the same reason that the biggest YouTube videos are "videogames".
It's the largest single topic that a broad swath of the Internet can come together and discuss, being that it is techy, often adolescent, and often male... Topics that large amounts of Internet dwellers will gravitate towards.
It's really the streak of anti-feminism in humanity that we all know is there, expressing itself. But it is expressed in the domain of videogames first, because that's the primary shared experience of the lowest common denomination on the Internet.
The Illiterati
Member
At this point, the harassment will never stop. It's too easy and too anonymous on Twitter to ever be stomped out, unfortunately. Social media is in its infancy, we should hope there's an evolution from a baby bird to mature eagle. From 4chan to NeoGAF, essentially. We here have a forum where harassment against members isn't tolerated.
Make a new level of Twitter that requires your passport on file to get into, has a three strike rule, and anyone who offends gets kicked back down to baby bird town. Hopefully eventually the screaming/harassing masses get ignored and the mature are elevated and paid attention to.
Make a new level of Twitter that requires your passport on file to get into, has a three strike rule, and anyone who offends gets kicked back down to baby bird town. Hopefully eventually the screaming/harassing masses get ignored and the mature are elevated and paid attention to.
http://www.theonion.com/article/seemingly-mentally-ill-internet-commenter-presumab-33570
Many of these people are everyday people with jobs and families and friends.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
A little of column a and a little of column b.
There are obviously bandwagon jumpers who just love to get their hands messy in a dramatic war that they can be a part of. It's less about games then getting involved in a "righteous struggle".
I could see #GG being very attractive to a certain type of disaffected adolescent or stunted 20-something. A brave movement against a society gone mad with political correctness. Only Us Gamers can fight this madness.
Oh my god, YES. I can't count how many times I've asked the anti-Sarkeesian crowd to actually take a look at the current state of video games. We've got a greater number of a larger variety of games that are more accessible and in many cases cheaper than we've ever seen before. Envelopes are being pushed every day in every direction, including in terms of violence and sexuality. Most importantly: if it sells, developers will continue to publish it! There is nothing, nothing that a pop critic can say that can compete with the millions of dollars brought in by GTAV.
If Sark's critics really care about games, PLAY YOUR GAMES. They're not going anywhere. Bitching and complaining about this phantom threat just makes you look like an asshole.
...Sorry. I get carried away sometimes.
I completely disagree with some of her analysis and think that at times she has been fishing for attention. One example was the whole Witcher 3 discussion, most people on this board seemed to share my opinion.
So while I don't really care for her work and don't buy into this notion that unrealistic female bodies are any more problematic than violence in games, the amount of hate and vitriol directed towards her is just unbelievable. People complain that she should concentrate on something more important while at the same time obsessing over every opinion piece that she writes.
I think much of it is a result of this siege-mentality among gamers Every now and then the media loves to play up these "moral panic" angles, be it after some school shooting or what have you. Over the years many gamers have seen themselves as outcasts of society and have this perception that people are out to get them. Sarkeesian is just another outsider who is "out to get us". And when you add anonymity and the overall internet culture to this dynamic, the result is not exactly surprising. I don't know what her coping mechanism is; others embrace the hate while some people just become numb to all the trolling.
So while I don't really care for her work and don't buy into this notion that unrealistic female bodies are any more problematic than violence in games, the amount of hate and vitriol directed towards her is just unbelievable. People complain that she should concentrate on something more important while at the same time obsessing over every opinion piece that she writes.
I think much of it is a result of this siege-mentality among gamers Every now and then the media loves to play up these "moral panic" angles, be it after some school shooting or what have you. Over the years many gamers have seen themselves as outcasts of society and have this perception that people are out to get them. Sarkeesian is just another outsider who is "out to get us". And when you add anonymity and the overall internet culture to this dynamic, the result is not exactly surprising. I don't know what her coping mechanism is; others embrace the hate while some people just become numb to all the trolling.
Well, that's what gets all the hits, isn't it?
Here's what I thought was a very well done compilation:
Top Ten Critiques of Feminist Frequency
My favortie criticism of Sarkeesian by far is this video by KiteTales. She does an outstanding job showing how perspective is everything and illustrating how ripe for criticism Sarkeesian's work really is, but she does it without a single pointless and distracting personal attack. Great stuff.
entremet
Member
The problem is that they don't.
Corronchilejano
Member
You've never seen a video of hers, have you? Also, you've only read related GG websites, right?
Your english is the last thing you should be apologizing for.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
I was completely unimpressed with Anita's videos and I continue to be... But the vitriol against her makes me side with her in principle, and the sad fact is, that she even gets these threats proves her point.
I don't think the costumes in DOA or the damsel at the end of Mario demonstrated oppressive misogyny in gaming culture. But the fact that you can make videos about those topics, and people throw shit, does demonstrate misogyny in gaming culture to a far greater degree.
I hope #GG realizes they only made Anita a star, and rallied fair thinking people on many spectrums of opinion in support of her. Before, I might have debated her feminist critique. Now? Well, I know I certainly support her not getting harassed by assholes.
dragonfart28
Banned
I don't disagree with Anita, but the jerking off her to pic just made me laugh.
Sorry.
Sorry.
Corronchilejano
Member
You are a sick individual.
Really though, do some men find themselves so repulsive as to believe their fluids taint what they touch?
shadowsdarknes
Member
No shaming it hurts my feelings
shadowsdarknes
Member
Three strike rule for what?
You clearly have not watched any of her videos. She explicitly said in the beginning of every video that it is fine to enjoy all these games while criticizing some aspects in them. This is basically what literary critics are about. I do not see that she is quite offended by these games. She is just calling for more inclusion and diversity in them.
Those shirts look fantastic and I would love to get one. Too bad they are a limited run.
I don't think the people who attack Anita are necessarily misogynists and painting them all as such is taking the easy road without examining other reasons they could be reacting badly.
I think it's more a mental equation about morality and self-perception than it is about hating women.
How I take it:
I like games
I have been playing games for a long time
I am not a bad person
Someone tells me that the games I've been enjoying have aspects that are harmful.
That doesn't sit right with me because that would make me a bad guy for enjoying games that have unfair/harmful aspects, but I know myself and I know I'm not a bad guy.
-> look at who is saying these comments and to protect my self-perception as a good person, that person must be declared wrong/bad.
-> look at easily identified factors common among these critics (women promoting feminism)
-> reject, defame, harass, take whatever course of action fits people who identify with those critics.
The last step, the taking action part, is the only part that other people see. And what would you see there? Misogyny, disrespect, hate. What I'm saying basically is I don't think misogyny is the source, it's the result.
I think it's more a mental equation about morality and self-perception than it is about hating women.
How I take it:
I like games
I have been playing games for a long time
I am not a bad person
Someone tells me that the games I've been enjoying have aspects that are harmful.
That doesn't sit right with me because that would make me a bad guy for enjoying games that have unfair/harmful aspects, but I know myself and I know I'm not a bad guy.
-> look at who is saying these comments and to protect my self-perception as a good person, that person must be declared wrong/bad.
-> look at easily identified factors common among these critics (women promoting feminism)
-> reject, defame, harass, take whatever course of action fits people who identify with those critics.
The last step, the taking action part, is the only part that other people see. And what would you see there? Misogyny, disrespect, hate. What I'm saying basically is I don't think misogyny is the source, it's the result.
That's a meaningless distinction. If you rely on misogynistic behavior to offend those affected by misogyny, you are a misogynist.
partyphone
Banned
why don't you take your own advice, just stop watching these videos and go on with your life?
Meaningless distinction.
It's meaningless to know why someone would do something bad without thinking they're doing a bad thing. In what backward ass society should we only ever look at results and consequences and never the process that brought it about?
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