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[Angelus Errare]

http://sadmgtowapartments.tumblr.com/

Every single one of them look like how I imagined they would.

 

[The Technomancer]

Meaningless distinction.

It's meaningless to know why someone would do something bad without thinking they're doing a bad thing. In what backward ass society should we only ever look at results and consequences and never the process that brought it about?

Doing a shitty thing for what you think isn't a shitty reason still is doing a shitty thing

A victim of harassment doesn't care how much their harasser thinks they're a good person. Nor should they

 

[razoftblend]

I don't understand, why are men/boys/males so threatened/annoyed by women in the video game world? Gaming women/gfs are like the best thing ever, I know because I'm dating one and spent all last night playing Majora's Mask with her. What's better than that??

I really don't understand the hate, fear and terrorism. I guess sexism is synonymous with racism, vis-a-vis, blind hate.

It stops being the "best thing ever" when they want more inclusion of women in video games and then wanting only women in them and not men. This woman is an example of extremist, hence all that negativity toward her.

 

[The Technomancer]

It stops being the "best thing ever" when they want more inclusion of women in video games and then wanting only women in them and not men. This woman is an example of extremist, hence all that negativity toward her.

...what?

 

[razoftblend]

...what?

Anita was apparently happy that you can choose beteween genders in Fallout 4 but was also saddened that the protagonists is not only a woman

 

[Morrigan Stark]

It stops being the "best thing ever" when they want more inclusion of women in video games and then wanting only women in them and not men. This woman is an example of extremist, hence all that negativity toward her.

lol?

 

[AF_Writer]

It's funny reading these kinds of posts because they always take a wild turn like what I bolded. They never continue in a rational, analytical fashion.

I think what he wrote is perfectly rational. If people consume themselves with getting offended about every thing that doesn't fit within their idea of how people should behave, they're likely to lead a pretty miserable life.

He's also perfectly right that there are a TON more important issues going on right now than putting so much focus on this issue, especially when compared to real shit like climate change, global terrorism, poverty, mental health, etc.

I'm all for the fair and equal treatment of women in every facet, but acting like women, as a whole, are oppressed in our society today is absolutely silly.

 

[partyphone]

I think what he wrote is perfectly rational. If people consume themselves with getting offended about every thing that doesn't fit within their idea of how people should behave, they're likely to lead a pretty miserable life.

He's also perfectly right that there are a TON more important issues going on right now than putting so much focus on this issue, especially when compared to real shit like climate change, global terrorism, poverty, mental health, etc.

I'm all for the fair and equal treatment of women in every facet, but acting like women, as a whole, are oppressed in our society today is absolutely silly.

we're only allowed to address one issue at a time? weird. I thought we could do multiple things at one time.

 

[Shaanyboi]

It stops being the "best thing ever" when they want more inclusion of women in video games and then wanting only women in them and not men. This woman is an example of extremist, hence all that negativity toward her.

Anita was apparently happy that you can choose beteween genders in Fallout 4 but was also saddened that the protagonists is not only a woman

lol is this for real?

 

[Acerac]

Spoiler

Hi /v/.

How cowardly.

 

[Red]

Meaningless distinction.

It's meaningless to know why someone would do something bad without thinking they're doing a bad thing. In what backward ass society should we only ever look at results and consequences and never the process that brought it about?

If a man is not aware he is a misogynist, but behaves like a misogynist, he is still a misogynist. A racist does not get off the hook for lynching a black man because he thinks it is the right thing to do. ISIS and other extremist groups don't have a legitimate excuse for inciting terror just because they feel morally compelled to kill people. If you make gendered threats against women, you are a misogynist, regardless of how being called that makes you feel.

 

[PataHikari]

I'm all for the fair and equal treatment of women in every facet, but acting like women, as a whole, are oppressed in our society today is absolutely silly.

I'd say that a organised campaign of harassment focused on a woman daring to criticise toys is a pretty big sign of opression.

 

[Angelus Errare]

It stops being the "best thing ever" when they want more inclusion of women in video games and then wanting only women in them and not men. This woman is an example of extremist, hence all that negativity toward her.

It's like reading the same argument against womens' rights and civil rights for blacks.

Like wow.

 

[Steel]

Anita was apparently happy that you can choose beteween genders in Fallout 4 but was also saddened that the protagonists is not only a woman

Citation needed? Cause all I remember her being disappointed about was that there weren't enough games where women were the only choice in E3 despite the fact that about 50% had women only or a choice. Which personally I feel is waaay too negative myself(and the corresponding GAF thread had similiar sentiment), but that's not what you're talking about. In either case, you don't have to agree with her, but your earlier post was.... Needlessly hostile?

 

[Morrigan Stark]

Anita was apparently happy that you can choose beteween genders in Fallout 4 but was also saddened that the protagonists is not only a woman

Not true. The super-mild disappointment she expressed was about Dishonored 2, and she was still excited about playing

Spoiler

Emily

in it.

Shocking how a GGer can't get their facts straight eh.

 

[DeepEnigma]

But the medium is one of the sources.

The medium is not the source, it is just another platform; or tool used for those that do it.

This has been going on long before gaming was a thing.

 

[brinstar]

I think what he wrote is perfectly rational. If people consume themselves with getting offended about every thing that doesn't fit within their idea of how people should behave, they're likely to lead a pretty miserable life.

He's also perfectly right that there are a TON more important issues going on right now than putting so much focus on this issue, especially when compared to real shit like climate change, global terrorism, poverty, mental health, etc.

I'm all for the fair and equal treatment of women in every facet, but acting like women, as a whole, are oppressed in our society today is absolutely silly.

you can care about more than 1 thing at a time

 

[DICKS AHOY]

That's a meaningless distinction. If you rely on misogynistic behavior to offend those affected by misogyny, you are a misogynist.

Can women be misogynist though? Considering there's a few women (put on a pedestal mind you) in GG, I think it can also just come down to a niggling insistence that she's wrong if their opinion is the opposite to hers* to one that dramatically snowballs into a pathological need to prove her to be this horrible con-artist no matter what, because they don't realize (or subconsciously don't want to admit) focusing on her so much is what got her this relevance in the first place.

It'd have been nice to have a more nuanced view on this topic, but given the harassment she got before FF even finished its kickstarter I think anything short of 'Games are great, don't change anything!' would've resulted in the same climate we're stuck in now. I love stupid sleezy fan service in games, but I'd like to think I'm not so much a child that I have to try and ruin someones life over wanting to criticize that or simply wanting something a bit more respectable to be the norm.

Also since at least a few people off /v/ are reading this, I'm sure you're already aware a large part of the reason she has the attention she has now and even got her original kickstarter funded was because you didn't know how to leave well enough alone.



*I'm of the opinion it's perfectly fine to not really agree with her on much without getting insane over it. There's a lot, though more on her twitter than her video work, that I think is pretty stupid, namely in regards to violence in games. In regards to her actual videos, even if personally I think most of what she talks about are pretty broad, TVTrope-style examples, I find it telling nobody had an issue with those tropes being talked about before they were framed in a feminist context.

 

[razoftblend]

Citation needed? Cause all I remember her being disappointed about was that there weren't enough games where women were the only choice in E3 despite the fact that about 50% had women only or a choice. Which personally I feel is waaay too negative myself(and the corresponding GAF thread had similiar sentiment), but that's not what you're talking about. In either case, you don't have to agree with her, but your earlier post was.... Needlessly hostile?

Lol hostile? Wtf? I was merely using her as an example of being extremist. Harassment is there regardless of medium, gender, race, etc.

My problem with her is not so much about her opinion about it as much as her approach, which is to group together male gamers in general harassing women; that is just the case of people being d!cks, just like in the real world.

 

[Red]

Lol hostile? Wtf? I was merely using her as an example of being extremist. Harassment is there regardless of medium, gender, race, etc.

My problem with her is not so much about her opinion about it as much as her approach, which is to group together male gamers in general harassing women; that is just the case of people being d!cks, just like in the real world.

It is bizarre that the person receiving death threats is being called the extremist.

 

[AF_Writer]

we're only allowed to address one issue at a time? weird. I thought we could do multiple things at one time.

I didn't say we're allowed to only address one issue at a time, but I think feminism and women's rights rank far lower on the totem pole compared to the very real possibility that our planet might not be able to sustain life in the next several decades.

Why are so many feminists and SJWs so concerned over how women are represented in video games when there are women getting stoned to death in other countries for being raped? Taking up the fight for women's rights in countries outside are own, where they're no shit really getting oppressed is far more important than if Fallout 4 has a fucking female character in it.

So many people in our country are so consumed by dumb shit like this that we forget that millions of other people are living in misery and would trade anything for a day to have our "problems."

 

[Steel]

Lol hostile? Wtf? I was merely using her as an example of being extremist. Harassment is there regardless of medium, gender, race, etc.

My problem with her is not so much about her opinion about it as much as her approach, which is to group together male gamers in general harassing women; that is just the case of people being d!cks, just like in the real world.

I don't disagree that there's harassment everywhere. In fact, she doesn't disagree with that either from what I've seen(and I'm not really a fan, only watched like two of her videos). I don't see how she's an extremist just for talking about the subject in critical manner. An extremist would be someone calling for mass castration of men or for all men to be submissive to women; you know, kinda like the gamergaters who are hurling garbage at her.

 

[AF_Writer]

you can care about more than 1 thing at a time

Sure but I'd love to see how many people who spend countless hours out of their day discussing this issue do the same for those other issues that have a far greater impact on our planet, country and society.

 

[partyphone]

I didn't say we're allowed to only address one issue at a time, but I think feminism and women's rights rank far lower on the totem pole compared to the very real possibility that our planet might not be able to sustain life in the next several decades.

Why are so many feminists and SJWs so concerned over how women are represented in video games when there are women getting stoned to death in other countries for being raped? Taking up the fight for women's rights in countries outside are own, where they're no shit really getting oppressed is far more important than if Fallout 4 has a fucking female character in it.

So many people in our country are so consumed by dumb shit like this that we forget that millions of other people are living in misery and would trade anything for a day to have our "problems."

why do you think they're not? this is a very tired and very old and very shitty line of reasoning.

 

[SolicitorPirate]

I didn't say we're allowed to only address one issue at a time, but I think feminism and women's rights rank far lower on the totem pole compared to the very real possibility that our planet might not be able to sustain life in the next several decades.

Why are so many feminists and SJWs so concerned over how women are represented in video games when there are women getting stoned to death in other countries for being raped? Taking up the fight for women's rights in countries outside are own, where they're no shit really getting oppressed is far more important than if Fallout 4 has a fucking female character in it.

So many people in our country are so consumed by dumb shit like this that we forget that millions of other people are living in misery and would trade anything for a day to have our "problems."

Why are you so consumed with posting on a forum when millions of others are living in misery?

 

[razoftblend]

It is bizarre that the person receiving death threats is being called the extremist.

Would you consider those people as the average gamers representing us or extremists of the other side? I don't agree with her, but I consider myself a rational gamer and have no need to send deaths threats to anyone.

 

[Lime]

but acting like women, as a whole, are oppressed in our society today is absolutely silly.

Explain:

Gender wage gap
Gender composition in director boards
Gender maternity discrimination
Sexism at the workplace
Rape culture and fear of rape
Public catcalls everywhere
Female sports
Sexual objectification and idealization in marketing
Bulimia and anorexia
Sexualization in film and games
Secondary characters in film and games

You still think women as a whole aren't oppressed?

 

[Red]

Would you consider those people as the average gamers representing us or extremists of the other side? I don't agree with her, but I consider myself a rational gamer and have no need to send deaths threats to anyone.

Can you list examples of Sarkeesian's extremist behavior?

 

[Steel]

Would you consider those people as the average gamers representing us or extremists of the other side? I don't agree with her, but I consider myself a rational gamer and have no need to send deaths threats to anyone.

"I don't agree with this person, so she must be an extremist."

That's not how opinions work.

 

[Golnei]

It is bizarre that the person receiving death threats is being called the extremist.

It's possible for someone to disagree with her views and/or be troubled by the full extent of her intentions, but also disapprove of the harassment she receives.

Why are so many feminists and SJWs so concerned over how women are represented in video games when there are women getting stoned to death in other countries for being raped? Taking up the fight for women's rights in countries outside are own, where they're no shit really getting oppressed is far more important than if Fallout 4 has a fucking female character in it.

So many people in our country are so consumed by dumb shit like this that we forget that millions of other people are living in misery and would trade anything for a day to have our "problems."

It's a lack of perspective. If you'd ascribe it to benevolent ignorance and denial rather than selfishness, what would you think would be the best way to educate people devoting themselves to such trivial issues (feminists, LGBT activists, etc.) and help them make a positive change for these global issues, rather than wasting their time on minutiae?

 

[SolicitorPirate]

It stops being the "best thing ever" when they want more inclusion of women in video games and then wanting only women in them and not men. This woman is an example of extremist, hence all that negativity toward her.

I wish I could see what it is like to live in your fantasy world.

 

[Turin]

I wish I could say what those guys did surprised me. Sadly, it did not.

 

[AF_Writer]

Why are you so consumed with posting on a forum when millions of others are living in misery?

Haha, I very rarely post in any forum, let alone NeoGAF. I stumbled here from something someone tweeted or posted on Reddit, I honestly can't remember. I certainly wouldn't say I'm consumed with this forum or Anita Sarkeesian.

I guess it just disappoints me that so many people focus on silly issues in our country when there are much larger ones elsewhere. Oh, and I do my part to contribute to society and help out where I'm able.

 

[foolishoptimist]

How I take it:

I like games
I have been playing games for a long time
I am not a bad person

Someone tells me that the games I've been enjoying have aspects that are harmful.

That doesn't sit right with me because that would make me a bad guy for enjoying games that have unfair/harmful aspects, but I know myself and I know I'm not a bad guy.

The leap that the games you play aren't portraying women well therefore you a bad guy doesn't make sense to me.

Anita admits to enjoying many of the games she features in her videos.

These aren't necessarily absolute bads, merely tropes/industry trends, that through their pervasiveness can be harmful.
She points the finger at Mario for the 'Damsel in Distress' trope! Which of course it's guilty of, but on it's own it's not a bad or harmful game.

All she's really advocating for is an overall more balanced depiction of females in games, and where possible, player choice of protagonist gender.

 

[themidnightsun156]

wrong thread

 

[Combat Wombat]

Spoiler

Hi /v/.

(USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)

Well, at least that answered his question.

 

[AF_Writer]

It's a lack of perspective. If you'd ascribe it to benevolent ignorance and denial rather than selfishness, what would you think would be the best way to educate people devoting themselves to such trivial issues (feminists, LGBT activists, etc.) and help them make a positive change for these global issues, rather than wasting their time on minutiae?

I'd say if you're intelligent enough to recognize these problems and think of ways to fix them, then you could do a lot better with your time than spending it trying to educate people with ass backward beliefs.

 

[PataHikari]

I guess it just disappoints me that so many people focus on silly issues in our country when there are much larger ones elsewhere. Oh, and I do my part to contribute to society and help out where I'm able.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacy_of_relative_privation

Just because there are bigger problems doesn't mean we should ignore this problem.

 

[Kinsei]

wrong thread

Nice edit...

 

[themidnightsun156]

Nice edit...

boy you're quick

 

[SolicitorPirate]

Haha, I very rarely post in any forum, let alone NeoGAF. I stumbled here from something someone tweeted or posted on Reddit, I honestly can't remember. I certainly wouldn't say I'm consumed with this forum or Anita Sarkeesian.

I guess it just disappoints me that so many people focus on silly issues in our country when there are much larger ones elsewhere. Oh, and I do my part to contribute to society and help out where I'm able.

I like how you manage to cram so much bullshit in so few paragraphs. It's impressive efficiency.

 

[platakul]

I didn't say we're allowed to only address one issue at a time, but I think feminism and women's rights rank far lower on the totem pole compared to the very real possibility that our planet might not be able to sustain life in the next several decades.

Why are so many feminists and SJWs so concerned over how women are represented in video games when there are women getting stoned to death in other countries for being raped? Taking up the fight for women's rights in countries outside are own, where they're no shit really getting oppressed is far more important than if Fallout 4 has a fucking female character in it.

So many people in our country are so consumed by dumb shit like this that we forget that millions of other people are living in misery and would trade anything for a day to have our "problems."

How was the Peace Corps?

 

[Vice]

I'd say if you're intelligent enough to recognize these problems and think of ways to fix them, then you could do a lot better with your time than spending it trying to educate people with ass backward beliefs.

At most times there's always a worse problem. People focus on those that interest them and those they can affect. It has been that way forever and it's how a lot of problems get solved. Civil rights during the 60s in the US were smaller on scale than ending starvation in the world or saving war orphans, but it was still a cause many took up and the world's better for it.

 

[AF_Writer]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacy_of_relative_privation

Just because there are bigger problems doesn't mean we should ignore this problem.

Sure, I can agree with that idea to a point. But if my neighbor's house is blown over in a storm and they lose everything, while all that happened to my property is my car sustained some minor damage, I'm sure as hell not going to be concerned with my stupid car.

 

[CLEEK]

Explain:

Female sports

You still think women as a whole aren't oppressed?

So because men are physically more capable that women at sport, women are being oppressed? Please.

The reason women sports are not as popular as their male equivalent is the same reason why the Premier League is more popular that Division 2, or the NBA in the US is more popular than the NBA in Australia. People want to watch the best players.

The rest of your list is predominately subjective. Eating disorders don't relate to oppression, and they also effect males. etc.

 

[DICKS AHOY]

(USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)

Well, at least that answered his question.

Couldn't find the thread but that's sorta weird unless /v/ mods give a shit about stupid cross-forum wars bullshit now.

Sure, I can agree with that idea to a point. But if my neighbor's house is blown over in a storm and they lose everything, while all that happened to my property is my car sustained some minor damage, I'm sure as hell not going to be concerned with my stupid car.

What if your neighbor's house is blown over in a storm while a third-world country suffers from starvation and roaming war lords?

I get that in the grand scheme of things concerning the world, none of this shit in games one way or the other matters, but you're acting like people can't multi-task, nor can address something that's relevant to themselves as a person. Even in your neighbor example, that's still your fellow man you possibly have a close connection to in trouble you're helping rather than a larger, world-influencing crisis.

 

[NetMapel]

I didn't say we're allowed to only address one issue at a time, but I think feminism and women's rights rank far lower on the totem pole compared to the very real possibility that our planet might not be able to sustain life in the next several decades.

Why are so many feminists and SJWs so concerned over how women are represented in video games when there are women getting stoned to death in other countries for being raped? Taking up the fight for women's rights in countries outside are own, where they're no shit really getting oppressed is far more important than if Fallout 4 has a fucking female character in it.

So many people in our country are so consumed by dumb shit like this that we forget that millions of other people are living in misery and would trade anything for a day to have our "problems."

Well in that case, let's forget about civil rights, LGBT rights, woman's rights and just about everything out there. Obviously nothing can compare to the importance of this planet's survival... I find this to be a convenient excuse not to address any possible discriminations that exist in the world.

 

[Golnei]

I'd say if you're intelligent enough to recognize these problems and think of ways to fix them, then you could do a lot better with your time than spending it trying to educate people with ass backward beliefs.

If the people who waste breath whining about how they're being oppressed by video games are just too dumb to see the bigger picture, than maybe it'd be better to just ignore them entirely, rather than take time away from bettering the world to expose the shaky foundation of their beliefs to people who won't listen.

Civil rights during the 60s in the US were smaller on scale than ending starvation in the world or saving war orphans, but it was still a cause many took up and the world's better for it.

Is it really? The civil rights movement may have had good PR, but imagine how much better the world could have been if all of that effort and government funding went into sustainable long-term housing and agriculture development in developing countries. Civil Rights activists should have been intelligent enough to look at the bigger picture.

 

[AF_Writer]

How was the Peace Corps?

That's not nice.

Actually, I've served more than 15 years in the Air Force and have been to Baghdad and witnessed first hand what true oppression and violence is.

 

[Steel]

So because men are physically more capable that women at sport, women are being oppressed? Please.

The reason women sports are not as popular as their male equivalent is the same reason why the Premier League is more popular that Division 2, or the NBA in the US is more popular than the NBA in Australia. People want to watch the best players.

Holy cherry-picking Batman. Way to dismiss 90% of his post for one debatable detail.