And for FFXV, we know a great deal of the first 10~20% of the story just from the 50 min demo reel and also of the Accordo that happens shortly afterwards. I would agree if they could show snippets of random important events out of order then it would be fine. But the fact is we know the structure of FFXV's story too well due to the Duscae demo and other reels, and by releasing anything else ontop of that it may potentially spoil the rest of the story. We know what Noctis's goal is and where and what he needs to do. Never before have we had such detailed information on a FF storyline because Square Enix has had to continuously rework the game. I belive that because we have had to wait for information to slowly come in for the past 10 years, it feels like we know hardly anything about the story, when in fact we know more than we should if FFXV had not been announced so early. And remember back in the days internet access was not so free and easy so they had to make a big blast for each trailer they made. Nowadays information is easily spread and at more regular intervals. Today's crowd is also more spoiler sensitive. You can look at movie trailers in the 80s and 90s where they pretty much spoil the whole movie and compare to to most movie trailers today.
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FFXV - Spoilers and the Journey to Nowhere
- Thread starter encephalon
- Start date
And for FFXV, we know a great deal of the first 10~20% of the story just from the 50 min demo reel and also of the Accordo that happens shortly afterwards. I would agree if they could show snippets of random important events out of order then it would be fine. But the fact is we know the structure of FFXV's story too well due to the Duscae demo and other reels, and by releasing anything else ontop of that it may potentially spoil the rest of the story. We know what Noctis's goal is and where and what he needs to do. Never before have we had such detailed information on a FF storyline because Square Enix has had to continuously rework the game. I belive that because we have had to wait for information to slowly come in for the past 10 years, it feels like we know hardly anything about the story, when in fact we know more than we should if FFXV had not been announced so early. And remember back in the days internet access was not so free and easy so they had to make a big blast for each trailer they made. Nowadays information is easily spread and at more regular intervals. Today's crowd is also more spoiler sensitive. You can look at movie trailers in the 80s and 90s where they pretty much spoil the whole movie and compare to to most movie trailers today.
I am sorry, but there is a lot of hyperbole here.
They have showed us some story elements so far, specifically in the uncovered trailer, but that's only the beginning of the game. You can't honestly judge an entire game story based on trailers and claim it won't have enough story, its absurd. We know that the main story is going to be 50 hours long (maybe 40 if Tabata is lying which I doubt he is), just because they didn't hand spoilers to us doesn't mean that there is nothing worth offering in this game story wise. Its not going to be an uneventful journey, not for this reason at least, what you're saying doesn't make any sense.
It just strikes me as odd that everyone assumes Versus has this epic story when we haven't even seen anything story-wise outside of Insomnia maybe you should give XV the benefit of the doubt that you're giving to Versus and Nomura.
Spoiling games isn't something I'd consider smart marketing, I was gutted that they included Ch. 0 is their 50 minute footage of the game I honestly wanted it to be a surprise but oh well. Also, SE are learning from their mistakes starting with how they spoiled the shit out of FXIII in their trailers, which ended up being so underwhelming. As for SE never using this approach to marketing before, well they haven't done events for previous FFs either like what they did with XV. This time, I see them taking a different approach and I like it, I don't want the game being spoiled like it was with MGSV and Uncharted 4.
To ease your worries, there are TONS of stuff we have yet to receive information on how they're going to play out in the game. I am not saying we might be getting the best story, but it certainty something I wouldn't consider as uneventful. In addition, the marketing for this game isn't over. As much as I might dislike it, they are going to give us a story trailer during TGS or somewhere near the release date.
They have showed us some story elements so far, specifically in the uncovered trailer, but that's only the beginning of the game. You can't honestly judge an entire game story based on trailers and claim it won't have enough story, its absurd. We know that the main story is going to be 50 hours long (maybe 40 if Tabata is lying which I doubt he is), just because they didn't hand spoilers to us doesn't mean that there is nothing worth offering in this game story wise. Its not going to be an uneventful journey, not for this reason at least, what you're saying doesn't make any sense.
It just strikes me as odd that everyone assumes Versus has this epic story when we haven't even seen anything story-wise outside of Insomnia maybe you should give XV the benefit of the doubt that you're giving to Versus and Nomura.
Spoiling games isn't something I'd consider smart marketing, I was gutted that they included Ch. 0 is their 50 minute footage of the game I honestly wanted it to be a surprise but oh well. Also, SE are learning from their mistakes starting with how they spoiled the shit out of FXIII in their trailers, which ended up being so underwhelming. As for SE never using this approach to marketing before, well they haven't done events for previous FFs either like what they did with XV. This time, I see them taking a different approach and I like it, I don't want the game being spoiled like it was with MGSV and Uncharted 4.
To ease your worries, there are TONS of stuff we have yet to receive information on how they're going to play out in the game. I am not saying we might be getting the best story, but it certainty something I wouldn't consider as uneventful. In addition, the marketing for this game isn't over. As much as I might dislike it, they are going to give us a story trailer during TGS or somewhere near the release date.
birthbysleep
Member
A theory I have is that the latter half of the game, rather the very end, takes place 10 years in the future, and the reason they've shown us nothing beyond the early parts of the game is they didn't want to spoil that, until now.
Considering they've only mostly shown the same Duscae-looking environments ever since it was announced, and big picture story-wise we can infer jackshit from their trailers, I believe you may be right. This could end up being an "uneventful" game, with not a whole lot of interesting stuff to see, do or experience. In terms of story beats it might be on the low side. We've already seen the beginning of the game, and it's fucking strange to say the least. They're using an anime mini-series and a CG movie to introduce us to the game's world and characters, which is just the strangest thing in the world, and hardly seems like the thing you propose when you start development of a game's story and characters. "Oh, we'll tell an important part of our game in other media." I mean, all of this crap just tells me that this game is a giant mess, or at least its development in any case (not that that's any news), and the latest cherry on top of this cake is that the actual "master code" of the game looks noticeably worse than a public demo released 18 months ago.
My expectations for this game are honestly very low. Two games with essentially 10 year-long production cycles will be released this year. The odds of both of them being good seem like a longshot. Will either of those two actually be any good?
My expectations for this game are honestly very low. Two games with essentially 10 year-long production cycles will be released this year. The odds of both of them being good seem like a longshot. Will either of those two actually be any good?
Just because a game doesn't spoil things for you then it should automatically be rendered as a mess and described as uneventful?
But let's assume you are right, that the game is truly uneventful, why would they tell the story in other media other than the game? Wouldn't it be cheaper and overall better if they just included all of the story bits in the game instead of making an anime and a movie? Don't you think that its the logical thing to do if the game was indeed empty? Why bother creating a huge world if there is no story to be told? It just doesn't make sense.
People are being way too negative towards a game that they haven't even played yet, the 50 minutes game-play footage we got cut a lot of cut-scenes to avoid spoilers, its not meant to be experienced this way. I understand if people are cautious about the game but I don't think its fair to blow things out of proportion because they decided that spoiling the game would be a dumb move especially with disappointments like XIII.
encephalon
Member
It could be a deliberate choice to keep story light within the game itself and signal a difference in design philosophy towards this title. By excising the insomnia invasion, they avoid having a long, cutscene heavy early game event that could lead to criticism that it's yet another "movie-game." Brotherhood provides background for those who want it, but doesn't get in the way of the gameplay of those who don't have the patience for it. The game may be designed as a story-light title, where the story provides its framework, but with the "open world" Square wanted to prove that it could offer front and center throughout the journey.
It could be the result of the game's apparent development issues, but I think it being a deliberate choice is a much more likely one.
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I believe this is a deliberate choice for the early game, but not for anywhere else. Tabata already stated that the second half of the game would be heavily story-driven, and it's also clear from interviews that he cares about telling a story.
chozen
Member
I think that was the goal though. They said they made Kingsglaive for the CGI fanatics.
CGI took up 31 GB on FFXIII the actual game was 19 GB.
FFXV is already over 45 GB if that Japanese download card is right. The file size is probably bigger than that though.
Game is huge with many assets in comparison to XIII.
The XIII games weren't shy about showing big story moments in trailers/magazines leading up to launch either. Same with XIV spoiling HUGE reveals in their launch trailers.
badcrumble
Member
I get this impression as well (and this was bolstered to the extent that Kingsglaive seemingly tried to evoke FFXII at times). I kinda expect Noctis and his buds be peripheral/tangential to the major story events, or to be affected by them but not to actually be a driving force in the game's overarching plot.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
You're speaking to my exact fears, OP.
I guess we have to hope that Tabata and co. have restraint and haven't showed their whole hand?
But in the "active time report" marketing culture.... I dunno.
An FF without plot moments and twists will be very disappointing. And I mean... I thought FFXII was "okay" in this department, for reference.
I guess we have to hope that Tabata and co. have restraint and haven't showed their whole hand?
But in the "active time report" marketing culture.... I dunno.
An FF without plot moments and twists will be very disappointing. And I mean... I thought FFXII was "okay" in this department, for reference.
Cloud Strife
Member
Yeah this is what I'm afraid of.
Story is a huge part of the FF experience for me.
Story is a huge part of the FF experience for me.
Yankee Ruin X
Member
I'm going to give SE the benefit of the doubt here and believe they haven't showed their entire hand yet and we have only seen glimpses of what's in store for us when it eventually releases. SE has so much invested in FFXV right now and after FFXIVs initial launch they can't have another mainline game in the series flop like that and that's why FFXV has been through development hell to ensure it won't be half baked. They spent a huge amount of money rebuilding FFXIV from the ground up to win people back. It's pretty much a given they can't possibly turn a profit on FFXV surely after the huge amount of resources the game has consumed so the only thing they can do is deliver what they believe is the best FF experience they can.
Hopefully that means there is plenty more in store for us that we don't know about yet, unless SE really are stupid and have spilled all the beans already.
Hopefully that means there is plenty more in store for us that we don't know about yet, unless SE really are stupid and have spilled all the beans already.
kenji_sama
Member
I always love watching Final Fantasy trailer because of the best combination of CGI scenes, story moment and battle scene. Even FFXIII trailer (especially the final trailer) made me purchase the game and then regretted doing it. However, all FFXV trailers after E3 2013 failed to deliver this stuff.
Indeed, it does not, but that's what the game comes off as. Who knows why they cut the intro from the game. Maybe it was too technically demanding as they had envisioned it. Maybe they realized they wouldn't have had enough time to finish all of their set-pieces(The Leviathan set-piece also seems to be completely different from the 2013 trailer). Maybe it just flat out sucked in-game. For me, it's a strange move for this game to plop you into its world as if you're already familiar with everything and everyone. It introduces you to nothing. You must watch Kingsglaive and Brotherhood to get any sense of place.
Now, about the uneventfulness... Have they even demoed any meaningful quests in this game since Episode Duscae? I'm honestly asking cuz I can't think of one, despite them releasing an hour-long video. I'm not even talking about major story spoilers. CDPR demoed a decently-sized proper Witcher 3 quest a year before release, and yet it didn't really spoil anything from the plot in it. Frankly I don't see how 50 minutes of essentially unfocused b-roll footage from a location we've already seen a million times is supposed to help.
I can only judge by what I am given, not by what I imagine or hope.
I want to think it was too technically demanding but I think that doesn't make sense. They'd just downgrade it. Honestly I think it was too time consuming to create. The level and scale of asset generation for a one time thing was probably too big. So let's create more fields, etc.
Yeah, it was time related. Would have taken another 3 years of development to include it.
http://www.novacrystallis.com/2016/06/tabata-on-why-final-fantasy-xvs-original-opening-was-cut/
"We felt because the theme were trying to handle here with the story is such a massive epic tale, we really couldnt fit all of that into the game that we had the time to make. So we wanted to show the essential things to get the best story across, which is where we decided on thatthats reflected in the final form of the game."
Its not that we dont need to show the Niflheim invasion to get the story across, but because that episode is something that would take up so much effort and time that rather than force it into the game, we started up its own separate project independently, and thats the tale we wanted to tell with the film. Thats why we moved that to Kingsglaive. From a story perspective wed have to have both the game and the film, both of these together in one package, but realistically thats not something we could have done in one game, its too much.
Its very similar to the kind of decision we had to ask ourselves, OK do we spend another six years to develop that whole complete package as one game or do we spend three years to do it in the way that were doing now? I think, it really doesnt affect it which one you get to seefrom a story perspective whether you see it as part of the game or through the film, and how we tell that story is not such a thing which is affected by that choice. We really are confident that weve made a really great experience with that. We felt the most important thing we needed to depict through the game was that idea of traveling together with these comrades and watching them all grow and develop as people emotionally at the same time. We really have gotten that in there, so from a story perspective I think weve done the best we can.
GamingOblivion
Banned
Just make it a fucking cutscenes ffs
Well technically they kind of did...
Yeaaah that's an unsurprising reason. They should've just rewritten everything, o just make a classic FF-style intro cut-scene. I mean, man, lots of shit happens in FF12's intro.
I'm not sure what's going on with the opening they have now. There's no real weight behind it.
DPtheGod
Member
The lead game designer did a Q&A just recently and said that something to the effect of that the old games used cut scenes to tell the story, and now it's interactive or some shit. Basically, it made me feel a MGSV vibe, or even Star Ocean. Have we seen ANY evidence of CGI scenes besides
the opening of Regis seeing his douche at the time son and the bros off?
Nope. There was some old stuff in the Jump Festa trailer from December 2014 but it was all of the invasion stuff we know is out of the game.
There are two other ones, like the CGI for Cor meeting the four guys at Duscae and the Altissia flyover CG at night. No idea how the Cor CG fits into the game now, though.
I really don't like that and I think it's terrible for story/character focused games like JRPGs.
Modest Mauser
Member
Even going all the way back to Versus days, Nomura said he wanted to do most of the storytelling in scripted, playable sequences.
I'd be 100% fine with in-engine cutscenes if they matched the fidelity of this trailer.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXMJTGna_xA
However, with different outfits being in the game now, my fear is that we won't get as many cutscenes like this in the game.
All of those cutscenes look like in-game, not FMV. Of course, the image quality won't be the same but...
Right, that trailer is in-engine. I'm just wondering if the in-engine cutscenes would be possible with different costumes. They should be.
Uh... whyever not?
DPtheGod
Member
This makes me... VERY nervous! lol. Dating back to FF7 when they finally had the technology to make fully rendered CGI scenes, they have been staple to helping tell the story but present it in a way that really envelopes the player within the world. Resisting using this method of cut scenes is a bold attempt, if they are doing it, but there better be an excessive amount of high quality in-engine scripted scenes.
Unfortunately I don't remember the Cor meeting
Which one is it? Do you happen to have a youtube link? Or, is it from the E3 2013 trailer at the end?In-engine are fine by me, but I still want to see pre-rendered scenes, especially for the more dramatic or energy fueled scenes; i.e. from FFX,
where Yuna is about to marry Seymour and Tidus and co come in on the ziplines. One of the best scenes in the game imo. Or even when Auron comes in to Luca during the Blitzball game and gets ready to wreck the monster.
Same!
I hope this is the case. The last thing I want to be doing is using my right thumb stick to move the camera around trying my hardest to zoom in on a character when they speak and convey key points of the plot, so I can observe how the character experiences i.e. a tragedy or something. It really helps with story, character, and player involvement development.
That trailer is amazing. Scenes like those, scattered throughout the entire game and not rare in quantity, would be completely acceptable. Still would love to see some CGI scenes though
There are in-engine cutscenes, and then there are in-engine pre-rendered cutscenes like the Dawn trailer with a really high graphical fidelity. I'm talking about the latter.
We've seen in the 50 minute video that there are in-engine cutscenes, but nothing that looks as impressive as the Dawn trailer.
Those scenes felt like hold-overs from the other stuff though.
That would mean that Duscae existed very close to E3 2013 (and was modified later or whatever). The Cor one feels the most recent since it's in Duscae, but again, I just don't know how that fits into the story anymore with Cor meeting the guys immediately after the invasion.
DPtheGod
Member
Wait, the Cor CGI scene is in Duscae? Is it at the very end? I've actually gone back to it because I wanted to mess around in it again, and am strong enough to destroy the behemoth but just haven't. I've done it before, and remember there is some stuff at the end but I just don't remember.
Oh no, I'm talking about this CG.
https://youtu.be/0HvgPzpbLhM?t=1m24s
There are parts of it shown off in this trailer.
Yeah not sure. People who played the first few chapters didn't encounter that scene so...
If it looks like Visual Works, it's probably fake or redone.
That scene looks like Visual Works.
Alternatively we could be back in Duscae far later in the game.
I think that scene is gone as well.
Cor says "If you're looking for the whole truth, you know where to find me", which is similar to the lines we can read during the E3 2013 trailer when they were showing that CG scene.
While it's not present in the 50 minute video, the Uncovered scene (that delivery is what sold me on playing with japanese voices) seems to take place in that tomb they first meet, so I'm assuming that "Regis knew about the invasion and sent Noctis off with a smile in order to protect him" is part of this "complicated truth".
That said, in the 2013 trailer, Cor's mouth isn't moving, the dialogue comes from some other moment, so it is possible that the Duscae CG encounter is still in, and we get to meet Cor again soon after we part ways when entering the dungeon. But I find it unlikely that we'd get a CG scene after getting the ability to customize our outfits, without some sort of time skip to justify changing our clothes to whatever they want to use in the CG.
That makes sense. Fits the mood well if it's right after something bad just happened, and if they take us back to Duscae with a cutscene or just fade to black, they can justify the default outfits instead of whatever you're using with the time it took to get there.
Cor says "If you're looking for the whole truth, you know where to find me", which is similar to the lines we can read during the E3 2013 trailer when they were showing that CG scene.
While it's not present in the 50 minute video, the Uncovered scene (that delivery is what sold me on playing with japanese voices
) seems to take place in that tomb they first meet, so I'm assuming that "Regis knew about the invasion and sent Noctis off with a smile in order to protect him" is part of this "complicated truth".That said, in the 2013 trailer, Cor's mouth isn't moving, the dialogue comes from some other moment, so it is possible that the Duscae CG encounter is still in, and we get to meet Cor again soon after we part ways when entering the dungeon. But I find it unlikely that we'd get a CG scene after getting the ability to customize our outfits, without some sort of time skip to justify changing our clothes to whatever they want to use in the CG.
That makes sense. Fits the mood well if it's right after something bad just happened, and if they take us back to Duscae with a cutscene or just fade to black, they can justify the default outfits instead of whatever you're using with the time it took to get there.
The best Final Fantasy game, Final Fantasy VI, was mostly character interactions and backtracking. You visit every location the game has to offer 40% into the game. The entire second half of the game, which contained all of the game's depth and storyline payoff, was optional. In a way, the fact that a lot of the game was optional made it even more rewarding, because it actually felt like you were going on an adventure. A lot of newer Final Fantasy games are on rails in comparison.
Been thinking the same. Maybe the recent comment from Tabata that Ocarina of Time is an inspiration for FFXV was actually playing on this timeskip and not just on the world structure.