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Fighting Games Weekly | Jan 27 - Feb 2 | The Power of Gamers

S

Silky

Banned
imma go back to practicing Skullgirls more often along with KOF. I guess I'll need to find a viable 2v2 team because Solo Peacock is a fool's game
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
Omega Rex said:
I wish more people used a tier list like this.

Instead people use shit like this where Dan is B tier or Justin Wong's where it goes from S to C because he has A+, A, A-, etc.
Click to expand...
As far as the MM Cafe tier list goes..... no one looks at the background letters. Because its a visual portrait its easier to see character rankings anyway so no need to label tiers.
 
I

iori9999

Banned
QisTopTier said:
That's a tie between ct carl/arakune but she's = to them.

In context to the CP cast yes she's Akuma

Black Hole = Air Fireball

Edit: Let me put it this way, Akuma in ST was not UNBEATABLE but just about everything was so much in his favor almost across the board that the game would have evolved into, play Akuma or play a character that stands even a remote chance vs him. Wonder if SF2 would still be played today or remembered as fondly by a lot of people if the whole "deal with it" mentality rocked for him.

Not to mention saying Valk can give her a run for her money is about on par with saying Zero isn't that bad what about Vergil
Click to expand...
She's not as strong in CP as Akuma was in ST... There are more options to beat Koko than there were to beat ST Akuma.. Chun in 3s is stronger in her game than Koko is in this.. I don't think she would have been banned but that's my opinion.. I would agree that she is the Akuma of CP though.. She is clearly the best overall.. I just think Akuma was a stronger top tier.. I'm hoping for Tsubaki buffs in the patch.. Not that she's terrible atm..
 
I

ian to the max

Member
chriskun said:
Eventhubs is hands down the best FGC site.
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Kimosabae said:
Agreed.
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KYOTDlv.gif
 
F

FSLink

Banned
Parallax Scroll said:
lol

Real talk, all the memes and catchphrases in skullgirls are really unappealing. "It's super effective?" "Now you're playing with power?" Fuck you, I'll play a different game.
Click to expand...

I think some of them are a bit forced, but as a Phoenix Wright fan I can't help but smile at "Hold it!" for game pausing, lol.
 
S

SolarPowered

Member
QisTopTier said:
At 27 frames you can't block Kokonoe's standard overhead in BB it's 25 frames start up.

Fun fact Noel's overhead is 16 frames lol I go into hyper focus mode to block those fucking strings
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I think I'm faster when I'm actually playing a game. Maybe not spidey tier, but certainly fast enough to block some quick overheads.
El Sloth said:
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Luckily I went to sleep before seeing this.

Sloths are hilarious
 
A

Astarte

Member
Dahbomb said:
Creators of Darkstalkers?

WTF... LOL @ that video! Not sure if parody or if actually serious.
Click to expand...

The Best Gamers are primarily people that come from /v/ and are satirical as hell. Case in point dat 0/10 review for fez that I more or less agree with.
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
I only saw the first 5 seconds when I made my previous post but yea its pretty much a joke video.

They are right though that 3v3 style is weird in a game where you can count all the characters on 2 hands.
 
P

Parallax Scroll

Banned
Skullgirls is a game concept that probably would have worked with about triple the roster size it actually has. Considering they're a small indie dev and the massive art requirements needed to add one character, this probably wasn't a wise design choice.
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
Parallax Scroll said:
Skullgirls is a game concept that probably would have worked with about triple the roster size it actually has. Considering they're a small indie dev and the massive art requirements needed to add one character, this probably wasn't a wise design choice.
Click to expand...
If it had triple the roster, a slightly different artstyle (ie. less "fan service") and 50/50 male female characters it would've done fine.

The whole all female cast puts a bad stigma on the game like Vanguard Princess. This game is basically the Western version of that. Now that might be popular in Japan but over here people are not that receptive to it.

In the end though MikeZ went out to make the game he wants and I can respect that. I just hope he learned a few things from Skullgirls going forward because I do feel that as far as fighting game design goes he knows his shit no doubt about it.

Watch his next game be Skullboys... LOL!
 
B

Biker19

Banned
chriskun said:
shits gonna happen, how else are they gonna make a living.
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Still, giant ads suck. Nobody wants to keep seeing big, giant ads plastered on your screen. Shit's annoying.

Omega Rex said:
There's no reason I should go to your site and have a giant fucking ad taking up 3/4ths of my screen. If you want me to have ad-block off, be reasonable.

NeoGAF seems to do just fine with ads and allowing us to browse the site instead of having to look at giant ads for shit we don't care about.
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Exactly. I had to turn off Ad-Block just for that site to even view it. And at least the ads are tolerable on NeoGAF.
 
P

Parallax Scroll

Banned
Dahbomb said:
If it had triple the roster, a slightly different artstyle (ie. less "fan service") and 50/50 male female characters it would've done fine.

The whole all female cast puts a bad stigma on the game like Vanguard Princess. This game is basically the Western version of that. Now that might be popular in Japan but over here people are not that receptive to it.

In the end though MikeZ went out to make the game he wants and I can respect that. I just hope he learned a few things from Skullgirls going forward because I do feel that as far as fighting game design goes he knows his shit no doubt about it.
Click to expand...

Yep, and I'd love for there to be another good game that plays similar to marvel. It's commendable that MikeZ tried to do that, but he unfortunately missed the mark a bit.
 
S

SolarPowered

Member
Dahbomb said:
If it had triple the roster, a slightly different artstyle (ie. less "fan service") and 50/50 male female characters it would've done fine.

The whole all female cast puts a bad stigma on the game like Vanguard Princess. This game is basically the Western version of that. Now that might be popular in Japan but over here people are not that receptive to it.

In the end though MikeZ went out to make the game he wants and I can respect that. I just hope he learned a few things from Skullgirls going forward because I do feel that as far as fighting game design goes he knows his shit no doubt about it.

Watch his next game be Skullboys... LOL!
Click to expand...
The game sold a lot. The problem was the lawsuit and Konami hold ups. I don't even think they're seeing any sales from the PC version.

Unless you are talking about it's tourney life. In which case...lol.
 
H

Huw_Dawson

Member
Skullgirls would have done fine if it wasn't for Marvel 3. Just like KOF would be much more heavily played if it wasn't for SF4 hogging the limelight and player interest.

Capcom games hoover up interest in other 2D titles. It has been like since SF2.

Its tournament life has been crippled by a lot of factors though. I still remain optimistic that in the long run it'll pull through as a tournament fighter. :)

And nothing is stopping anyone from picking it up. If you don't like the art, fine. But otherwise, what's stopping you? Diversify and play more fighters, don't sit there playing one game for five years.
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
SolarPowered said:
The game sold a lot. The problem was the lawsuit and Konami hold ups. I don't even think they're seeing any sales from the PC version.

Unless you are talking about it's tourney life. In which case...lol.
Click to expand...
I meant both sales and tournament life. It could've done better than it did across all platforms. Yea the publisher/law suit problems didn't help but the game does have intrinsic faults that keeps it from reaching its potential.
 
O

oneida

Cock Strain, Lifetime Warranty
Huw_Dawson said:
KOF would be much more heavily played if it wasn't for SF4 hogging the limelight and player interest.
Click to expand...

I think that is very optimistic thinking. It seems more likely to me that SF4 is bringing non-fighting game people into the fighting game scene. From there they can paddle around with SFIV or move on to other games.
 
H

Huw_Dawson

Member
Dahbomb said:
. Yea the publisher/law suit problems didn't help but the game does have intrinsic faults that keeps it from reaching its potential.
Click to expand...

Marvel 3 also has intrinsic faults though. It just gets by because of Marvel 2 and the IPs it has in it. Marvel 3 isn't a good game in its own right. SF4 is an okay game with some notable flaws but with a very, very strong IP. Yet these games get more attention than a dozen other fighting games which you could be playing instead.

People pidgeonhole themselves into playing one or two games. That's why games like SG are not a huge success - because people refuse to leave their comfort zones and play a variety of fighters.
 
A

alstein

Member
Huw_Dawson said:
Skullgirls would have done fine if it wasn't for Marvel 3. Just like KOF would be much more heavily played if it wasn't for SF4 hogging the limelight and player interest.

Capcom games hoover up interest in other 2D titles. It has been like since SF2.

Its tournament life has been crippled by a lot of factors though. I still remain optimistic that in the long run it'll pull through as a tournament fighter. :)

And nothing is stopping anyone from picking it up. If you don't like the art, fine. But otherwise, what's stopping you? Diversify and play more fighters, don't sit there playing one game for five years.
Click to expand...

I don't think the Capcom games hurt either of those games. I don't think SG was helped/hurt at all, and I think the SF4 revival helped KOF.

In my case, I love everything about SG except the gameplay.
 
S

SolarPowered

Member
Dahbomb said:
I meant both sales and tournament life. It could've done better than it did across all platforms. Yea the publisher/law suit problems didn't help but the game does have intrinsic faults that keeps it from reaching its potential.
Click to expand...
That they don't help is an understatement. The lawsuit is the main reason the character roster didn't get expanded until the IGG happened and publisher/distributor/platform problems are the main reason Squigly and like two sequels worth of features/balance fixes remain PC exclusive for like 6+ months. Right now these things have done irreparable damage to the tourney scene that cheesecake can't even compare to. Right now there are bigger barriers to the tournament scene.

Let me put it this way. People paid hundreds of thousands of dollars for the characters, cheesecake, art and fighting. They sure as hell didn't pay for lawsuits, konami fuck ups or just the dudes. There is no use in even talking about potential when said product can barely take a step without some business related problem weighing it down.

The last I'll say about that.
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
Huw_Dawson said:
Marvel 3 also has intrinsic faults though. It just gets by because of Marvel 2 and the IPs it has in it. Marvel 3 isn't a good game in its own right. SF4 is an okay game with some notable flaws but with a very, very strong IP. Yet these games get more attention than a dozen other fighting games which you could be playing instead.

People pidgeonhole themselves into playing one or two games. That's why games like SG are not a huge success - because people refuse to leave their comfort zones and play a variety of fighters.
Click to expand...
If you compare Marvel 3 to Skullgirls... Marvel 3 has less faults than Skullgirls at a BASIC level.

*Marvel 3 doesn't have an all female character roster.
*Marvel 3 is a strictly 3v3 fighting game with 50 characters while Skullgirls is a ratio team fighting game with 10 characters.
*Marvel 3 is based on various IPs, Skullgirls is not.
*Marvel 3 has a less offensive art style.
*Marvel 3 is flashier and faster.

This is why at a base level Marvel 3 succeeds over Skullgirls. Now at a mechanics level Skullgirls does a lot of things better but its hard to get past all of that to get to the good stuff.

If people want to play a 1v1 2D fighting game they would play SF4... if they want a team game they would play MVC3 or KoFXIII. Those games have characters people like and more of them.
 
H

Huw_Dawson

Member
Dahbomb said:
If you compare Marvel 3 to Skullgirls... Marvel 3 has less faults than Skullgirls at a BASIC level.

*Marvel 3 doesn't have an all female character roster. This isn't a fault. Nobody would bat an eye if a roster was all-male.
*Marvel 3 is a strictly 3v3 fighting game with 50 characters while Skullgirls is a ratio team fighting game with 10 characters. Which creates added depth and eases newcomers into the game via allowing them to play as one character for a while.
*Marvel 3 is based on various IPs, Skullgirls is not. IPs are irrelevent to how good a game is, but they are certainly not when trying to sell a game to an audience. Marvel gets by on its license and little more.
*Marvel 3 has a less offensive art style. Opening a can of worms: Marvel 3 has a good number of large-breasted women wearing skin-tight clothing, does it not? Are we talking art or character design?
*Marvel 3 is flashier and faster. Which leads to a game that's so random they had to change the tournament format to compensate.
.
Click to expand...

This boils down to a matter of taste, but Marvel 3 is a bad game. Hitcircles, massive damage, infinites, near-inescapable mixups, Hidden Missiles meta. And to newbies it's a bad game too - no tutorial mode, a scrappy single-player mode, garbage netcode, being forced to learn 3 characters to play (a similar problem faced by KOF).

Sorry to get so aggressive persuing this point - I'm just very sick and tired of people dismissing SG as some little game for perverted breast fetishists or something, and not wanting to play it because they think they'll look creepy if they do. It isn't and you won't. IMO SG Encore is the best fighter on the market right now - that's why I play it, that's why I try and get other people to play it. And when I go to events I see people rinsing Marvel 3, a broken mess, a game that is such a broken mess that a certain contingent of its fanbase spent months writing fantasy patch notes for because they know that the game isn't good enough.

But you know what? That's fine - liking something is fine. But too many people blot out every fighter other than "their" game. And that ultimately hurts the scene.
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
Well I disagree with pretty much all of what you said so there's no point in continuing the discussion because I don't think I can change your mind.

For me... I would take the current Marvel 3 over Skullgirls any day of the week and for me it has nothing to do with the artstyle. I was bored of Skullgirls after a month of playing (this is post patch after they reworked IPS system 3 times).. I still find Marvel 3 super interesting.

People use the whole patch project as a way to shit on the game and the fanbase but we did it out of the love of the game. If we really thought it was crap we wouldn't waste our time and effort discussing about it. I could make a 500 page patch list for DMC1 to make it better... that doesn't mean I think its shit.
 
P

Parallax Scroll

Banned
Huw_Dawson said:
This isn't a fault. Nobody would bat an eye if a roster was all-male.
Click to expand...

It is when there's already a stigma against other sexually exploitative all-female fighting games. Unless you're trying to cash in hard on merchandise sales to a niche otaku audience, making a fighting game all-female will do more harm to your brand than good, especially outside Japan.
 
I

Infinite

Member
Parallax Scroll said:
It is when there's already a stigma against other sexually exploitative all-female fighting games. Unless you're trying to cash in hard on merchandise sales to a niche otaku audience, making a fighting game all-female will do more harm to your brand than good, especially outside Japan.
Click to expand...

Nah I don't think so. It didn't do the game any favors that the art style was divisive but having an all female cast inherently should not be a fault or knock against the game. If such is the case then the audience is the problem.
 
N

Niitris

Member
I think the only real gripe is the small character count. It's hard to sell replayablity when there's only ten characters to choose from (in a team/ratio fighter at that). I'd definitely be more interested in SG if there were more characters (I'm only speaking for myself though).

Everything else isn't that big a deal. Aesthetics only kill a game here when it's super kawaii loli desu fighter (which Skullgirls isn't). Aesthetics would prevent Skullgirls from being as big as, say Street Fighter, but that isn't the reason it didn't take off.

Also, the competition. Nearly every franchise has tournament-worthy fighters now... it'd be pretty hard for an indie developer to beat the big boys at this point.
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
I think an all male cast is just as bad as an all female cast nowadays. There is no reason why you can't have some form of balance. In fact I can't think of any good all male fighting game.
 
B

Beckx

Member
Parallax Scroll said:
It is when there's already a stigma against other sexually exploitative all-female fighting games. Unless you're trying to cash in hard on merchandise sales to a niche otaku audience, making a fighting game all-female will do more harm to your brand than good, especially outside Japan.
Click to expand...

The lesson here seems to be go all out on your cheesecake for a few characters, but then surround them in beefcake.

Let's call it the MCMC* rule.

*Morrigan/Cammy/Mai/Cortana
 
H

Huw_Dawson

Member
Parallax Scroll said:
It is when there's already a stigma against other sexually exploitative all-female fighting games. Unless you're trying to cash in hard on merchandise sales to a niche otaku audience, making a fighting game all-female will do more harm to your brand than good, especially outside Japan.
Click to expand...

Can't argue with the stigma existing, it's right here in this thread, and in a lot of other places where SG is brought up. "SG isn't good/will never do well at tournaments because it's all-female".

It's really screwed up. :\

I will say this - Big Band is awesome. And I am psyched to be able to throw him in people's faces when I get played the all-female card when he comes out.

Beckx said:
The lesson here seems to be go all out on your cheesecake for a few characters, but then surround them in beefcake.

Let's call it the MCMC* rule.

*Morrigan/Cammy/Mai/Cortana
Click to expand...

That doesn't always work - there's some hench guys in DOA and that game still gets accused of sexploitation. But that franchise had breast-size sliders and beach volleyball spinoffs so it is kind of out there.
 
M

mbpm1

Member
Huw_Dawson said:
BTW I will say this - Big Band is awesome. And I am psyched to be able to throw him in people's faces when I get played the all-female card when he comes out.
Click to expand...

To be fair, he's one character, who was added as DLC months and months after the original was out. Doesn't change the arguments about lack of representation or similar ones that get trotted out with the complaints about the cast.
 
H

Huw_Dawson

Member
oneida said:
I agree, SG's cast and its portrayal is screwed up, pandering and exploitative. It's demeaning to everyone involved, audience included
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So you're saying that I, and the entire SG community, are demeaning ourselves by playing Skullgirls? Why?

What about the dev team? They're being demeaned too? And the publishers?
 
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