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[Mejilan]

Strangely enough, because it seems to WANT to play like a true ARPG, and lacks the satisfaction of pressing a button and landing/timing a well-played strike. Also, the camera is shitty. A shitty camera in an RPG battle? How the FUCK does that happen.

I realize this isn't the first FF with "wait bars", but this is the first one where I actually have to sit there (yawning) to watch them fill up. I found the entire demo boring. From the one-sided combat to the poorly designed and empty environments.

 

[HomerSimpson-Man]

How can you think its slower, when its FASTER than any other FF battle system (including entering/exiting battles and going through experience/item screens).

Dude, it's Mejilan.

 

[FallenOne666]

Dude, it's Mejilan.

So true. He needs a "Don't believe my impressions" tag like demi. :lol

 

[Zilch]

Haha, I just went to Gamefaqs and checked out the FFXII message board. Insert the Gamefaqs joke/punchline of your choice here, it'll probably fit. :lol

 

[6.8]

Haha, I just went to Gamefaqs and checked out the FFXII message board. Insert the Gamefaqs joke/punchline of your choice here, it'll probably fit. :lol

oh my god. you are right. :lol

I found the battle system fun, and just as engaging as any other FF combat system. Except it didn't have random battles. Which makes it better by default.

 

[DarienA]

Dude, you have a choice between active and wait mode.

From what I understand in wait mode the enemies time still advances. That's similar to the FFX-2 battle system IIRC.. and I didn't think much of that either. I'm strictly turn based.. that makes me old, ancient and out of date...

So be it.

 

[Prine]

Combat here is something like traditional FF meets KOTOR. You control one character at a time -- and can switch characters by pressing up and down on the D-pad -- and issue orders to other players during pauses in combat.

SOLD!

 

[Docpan]

Oh, God... It plays like FFXI?

Nevermind.

 

[Belfast]

Oh, God... It plays like FFXI?

Nevermind.

It does and doesn't. Obviously its not based around a class system and its a lot faster. Its not like the battle system for FFXI sucks, its more trying to pull monsters and cooperating with team members that's so annoying.

Since you only have to cooperate with yourself and battle moves a lot smoother, its not really the same.

 

[Zilch]

From what I understand in wait mode the enemies time still advances. That's similar to the FFX-2 battle system IIRC.. and I didn't think much of that either. I'm strictly turn based.. that makes me old, ancient and out of date...

So be it.

In 'Wait' mode, everything -- EVERYTHING -- totally stops when you pause the game. Absolutely nothing advances. This has been explained in the 1Up preview and numerous times on this board in various threads... geez...

 

[AeroGod]

My god! I just played it and I got HUGE FFXI vibes. Its the same exact thing. FFXII combat plays exactly like an MMO except you get to control everyone, and of course the wait mode, but hte dungeon demo was 100% feeling like an MMO, especially FFXI(duh!)

I dont know, it could grow on me, but im not totally sold yet. The game doesnt come out for like a year so I guess its still too early to tell. I dont hate it but it wasnt as great as I thought it would be. I did have some fun fighting the Ring Wyrm boss in the temple though, I dunno, his fireball looks powerful hitting the nerdy guy right in the face. :lol

I LOVE the characters though. Its only a demo and I can already tell its going to be my favorite cast. THey all look awesome in their own way, I like them alot. Its awesome how Ashe uses a big ass sword instead of some stupid retarded staff or chakram like the main females usually use in RPGS.

Still a long time to wait At least the demo didnt make me crave much more, so it wont be that hard waiting for however long untill the game comes out.

 

[BlueTsunami]

In 'Wait' mode, everything -- EVERYTHING -- totally stops when you pause the game. Absolutely nothing advances. This has been explained in the 1Up preview and numerous times on this board in various threads... geez...

With that said, it seems that SE kept the traditional FF gamers in mind. I'm happy that both worlds are being accomidated for.

 

[Mejilan]

Active >>>>>>> (x100)>>>> Wait

 

[antipode]

I don't mind evolving the game mechanics but the demo itself is a little disappointing.

The camera is honestly really, really bad - I don't know why so many of the buttons are unmapped but not having at least one of the shoulder buttons mapped to some camera function is just dumb. Having the camera swing around wildly when you get close to a wall is disorienting, and the near clip plane is really far in front of you so if an enemy gets behind you it just disappears. Not having an easy way to zoom back or face the enemy means you spend alot of the time not sure where things are - other than looking at the teeny map in the corner (I really hope they assign a Map button.) I've also had that annoying effect where the camera was vibrating back and forth quickly while paused in Wait mode, because an enemy was intersecting the near clip plane most likely.

I like that characters auto-attack after given an attack command but I hate how the main character does absolutely nothing after he/she finishes a spell command - it's annoying to have to queue up an attack when an enemy is standing right next to you. Hopefully that's at least a configurable setting in the final version.

The graphics engine does look great and I'm still looking forward to the final game. Honestly though if it wasn't FF I probably would not give something this unpolished a second thought. It really does feel like the game is stuck in a clusterfuck and no-one at SquareEnix is able to assert enough ownership over the game to even decide how to map half the buttons.

 

[Gattsu25]

No demo until tomorrow

The wait is killing me

fuck

 

[Gattsu25]

I like that characters auto-attack after given an attack command but I hate how the main character does absolutely nothing after he/she finishes a spell command - it's annoying to have to queue up an attack when an enemy is standing right next to you. Hopefully that's at least a configurable setting in the final version.

Judging from the first post, it would seem all you would need to do is "equip" an "attack target" gambit to have your character attack the bad guy while not performing a specified action

 

[trmas]

Now THAT is an awesome demo. Have to go back and try the summons though, now. Wait mode is EXACTLY like playing KOTOR. The wait is going to be hard.

 

[Diablos]

No demo until tomorrow

The wait is killing me

fuck

And when you're done with the demo you go back to waiting till summer '06! Maybe winter if it really did get delayed again!

 

[Mejilan]

I don't mind evolving the game mechanics but the demo itself is a little disappointing.

The camera is honestly really, really bad - I don't know why so many of the buttons are unmapped but not having at least one of the shoulder buttons mapped to some camera function is just dumb. Having the camera swing around wildly when you get close to a wall is disorienting, and the near clip plane is really far in front of you so if an enemy gets behind you it just disappears. Not having an easy way to zoom back or face the enemy means you spend alot of the time not sure where things are - other than looking at the teeny map in the corner (I really hope they assign a Map button.) I've also had that annoying effect where the camera was vibrating back and forth quickly while paused in Wait mode, because an enemy was intersecting the near clip plane most likely.

I like that characters auto-attack after given an attack command but I hate how the main character does absolutely nothing after he/she finishes a spell command - it's annoying to have to queue up an attack when an enemy is standing right next to you. Hopefully that's at least a configurable setting in the final version.

The graphics engine does look great and I'm still looking forward to the final game. Honestly though if it wasn't FF I probably would not give something this unpolished a second thought. It really does feel like the game is stuck in a clusterfuck and no-one at SquareEnix is able to assert enough ownership over the game to even decide how to map half the buttons.

I kinda feel the same way.

R3, btw, recenters the camera around you. Not very useful, but it's something at least.

 

[antipode]

Judging from the first post, it would seem all you would need to do is "equip" an "attack target" gambit to have your character attack the bad guy while not performing a specified action

Well, Gambits were on and working, although the demo doesn't let you configure them like that. If you a walk up to an enemy and stand there your leader will fight back (unless you're trying to flee.) The problem is if you issue an attack spell, your leader just stands there once the spell finishes, even though the other characters are still attacking the enemy next to you. It would be nice if they either queued up the same spell again or joined in the attack... I can understand sometimes wanting to just stand there to control aggro but it would be nicer if they handled the common case for you.

 

[brocke]

Although limited to combat only, the demo showed much promise in FFXII. I actually like what they did with the battle system, although I definatly won't be playing in wait mode. Active mode is the way to go, and it creates a fast pased battle environment.

Plus the video shown after you beat the demo really shows some pretty cool battles. I like how much more immersive it feels when you don't have to wait for battle loads.

On the down side something felt lacking with the way battle now works. Didn't feel as cinematic. Then again the demo didn't have a story around it so that may be why.

Now on to DQ8

 

[Mister Zimbu]

Though I only watched my roommate play it and haven't touched it myself yet, two things about this demo made my day:

1) Fucking Mandragoras! Ninja plants rule!
2) The character portraits don't have noses. It IS Ivalice!

 

[DarienA]

In 'Wait' mode, everything -- EVERYTHING -- totally stops when you pause the game. Absolutely nothing advances. This has been explained in the 1Up preview and numerous times on this board in various threads... geez...

The one up preview that I read NEVER made it clear that the enemies stop moving, it simply made it clear that your and your characters stop moving. It completely glossed over what the enemy is doing at that time... and folks here have constantly reference FFX-2 where the enemies did not stop moving(unless you dropped down in to a menu IIRC, only briefly played it).

So excuse me for thinking enemies kept moving in wait mode. I'm sorry you had to go out of your way to clarify something that I have not seen written succintly, because I don't participate in every %$#%$# FFXII thread. Thank you for clarifying the matter, my hope has been restored.

 

[Diomedeskun]

The one up preview that I read NEVER made it clear that the enemies stop moving, it simply made it clear that your and your characters stop moving. It completely glossed over what the enemy is doing at that time... and folks here have constantly reference FFX-2 where the enemies did not stop moving(unless you dropped down in to a menu IIRC, only briefly played it).

So excuse me for thinking enemies kept moving in wait mode. I'm sorry you had to go out of your way to clarify something that I have not seen written succintly, because I don't participate in every %$#%$# FFXII thread. Thank you for clarifying the matter, my hope has been restored.

Incidentally, the system you complain about is how WAIT mode worked in FF IV-IX. Active mode didn't even pause in menus. FFX is the only game to be fully turn based in the main series since the NES days.

 

[Bizarro Sun Yat-sen]

It completely glossed over what the enemy is doing at that time... and folks here have constantly reference FFX-2 where the enemies did not stop moving(unless you dropped down in to a menu

isn't this exactly how wait mode worked in FF4 through 9?
edit: doh!

 

[Tabs]

I hate it. Darien, you're going to hate it. I can see that a lot of people like the new battle system, but I think it sucks, big time. MMO battle systems are the worst parts of those games for me. I certainly don't want anything like it in my console version.

I played wait mode and active mode twice each. On my 2nd run through each, I left the characters on Gambit mode and did absolutely nothing with the controller but walk from fight to fight. I beat the stages easily. I guess that bodes well for the AI, but it sucks for someone that wants complete control.

Wait mode has potential, but it's still broken (as far as I'm concerned, mind you). It doesn't stop at each person's turn, and there's no way to set it up to do that. If you choose attack for each charcter, they just keep attacking everytime their bar fills up. It's up to you to catch them after and action and deliver a new command. So, it's basically exactly the same as active mode, just minus the pause that you get when you open a menu.

And all the effects that you love from previous FF games are completely lost save the summons. I used a number of black magic spells and didn't even see the spell hit the enemy 80% of the time. My wife was looking over my shoulder, "Was that lighting? I didn't even see anything." With everybody attacking at once, it's hard to pinpoint which damage came from whom, and any special effects you might notice are lost in the shuffle of a camera that's too far zoomed in. Oh, and you can't direct the actions of your Esper, bleh.

 

[DarienA]

Incidentally, the system you complain about is how WAIT mode worked in FF IV-IX. Active mode didn't even pause in menus. FFX is the only game to be fully turn based in the main series since the NES days.

Weird, I don't remember it that way. (which means squat, alzheimer's is probably kicking in)

I could have sworn wait mode always stopped enemies(when you were in a sub menu) and FFX-2 was the first one that didn't.... ah hell whatever.

Regardless Trav's post doesn't give me much hope...again.

 

[Dracos]

I can't say I liked it, or disliked it. I'm kinda just meh about the demo. 1st of all, I think the graphics look old. Even for PS2 the graphics are 2 years behind. I think it may be the textures. The whole demo was really washed out, and looking at the door to the ring dragon, you could really tell how low-rez the textures are. The combat system, was fine with me. As a matter of fact I think it will keep me awake when playing the game real late. The limited nature of the demo I assume really didn't show the true potential of the battle system. Finally, my biggest complaint is how the demo was structured. Thinking back to the previous FF demos, they were more like chunks of the game, with proper cutscenes and some idea as to how the storytelling was going to be in the final version. This demo provided none of that, during the course of the gameplay. The quick mission structure wasn't the right choice IMO. I hope that the final game doesn't have much or any of that. There was no excitement, even in the portion labeled action oriented. Nothing like that storm on the factory in FFVII, Midgar or whatever it was called.

 

[teiresias]

I thought wait mode in all of the post-FF4 ATB games worked where the enemies didn't pause in the regular menu, but they did pause if you went into the item or spell menu.

 

[DarienA]

I thought wait mode in all of the post-FF4 ATB games worked where the enemies didn't pause in the regular menu, but they did pause if you went into the item or spell menu.

That's what I thought... and I thought I was previously reading here that in FFXII enemies don't pause period. I didn't play FFX-2 long enough to remember what the hell it does...

 

[Gattsu25]

Darien: No and Thank Gawd...that game sucked

 

[GoncaloCCastro]

I just finished playing the demo and I think it's really refreshing.

Hope to get the full game sometime in 2006 in Europe!!!

 

[DarienA]

It's the same battle system but instead of constantly needing to press the attack command every turn it does it for you, there are no random battles, and you move around the battle. That's the BASIC changes right there. Other than that, wait mode should feel VERY FFish for the experienced FF fan.

...and the spell animations? Also does moving around actually have an effect on the battle?

 

[DarienA]

Dude, just watching the trailer shows AWESOME over the top spell animations.

When in battle, there's nothing as exhilirating as taking out a mandragora as A LONG STREAM OF FIRE FLIES PAST THE SCREEN. That's how much detail goes into the spells. Fire is just one example. It was awesome.

Flare was given LOTS of detail. Haven't tried Holy yet though.

The battle I saw was pretty f'n plain... can you suggest a link to download?

 

[teiresias]

I'm seriously not getting these spell animation complaints. I prefer the lower spells to have rather mundane animations, it makes the more powerful spells actually LOOK like they should be doing more damage.

 

[Zilch]

I played wait mode and active mode twice each. On my 2nd run through each, I left the characters on Gambit mode and did absolutely nothing with the controller but walk from fight to fight. I beat the stages easily. I guess that bodes well for the AI, but it sucks for someone that wants complete control.

That's funny, I just finished a session of Dragon Quest VIII and all I did for those battles was mash the X button until all the bad guys were dead. Is that the kind of 'control' you need?

edit: oh Himuro you already beat me to it...

 

[DarienA]

That's funny, I just finished a session of Dragon Quest VIII and all I did for those battles was mash the X button until all the bad guys were dead. Is that the kind of 'control' you need?

edit: oh Himuro you already beat me to it...

:lol EXACTLY

I really don't understand why it's so hard for people to accept that yes sometimes that is a choice I want left up to me, whether I choose to just attack, attack, attack, or at the end of the round, wait and decide to cast a spell.

I mean shit I don't hate on people who like real time battles... I just know it's not for me and leave it at that... so why the f*ck is there always the reverse around here?

 

[Zilch]

Right, I'm not attacking. I'm pointing out a fact that I find somewhat ironic.

 

[Gameplay>Graphics]

Noone's hating on anyone. It's just that it seems most of you aren't even giving this new system a chance. I'm a big fan of traditional rpgs as well, but I love variety just as much.

Variety huh, http://www.ga-forum.com/showthread.php?p=2216019#post2216019 *Ahem*. IN THE HOUSE OF THE LAWD, THAT IS UNFORGIVABLE!!!! *Leaves thread*

 

[DarienA]

Noone's hating on anyone. It's just that it seems most of you aren't even giving this new system a chance. I'm a big fan of traditional rpgs as well, but I love variety just as much.

Well I haven't written this one off completely, I'm just not liking some of the things I'm hearing... I need to get my hands on the demo sometime this weekend to check it out, but in the meantime does anyone have a good download link to get a good view of spell-casting during battles? I saw one a bit back at 1up and basically it showed some light being tossed at a large creature... I couldn't tell what the spell was....

 

[Ranger X]

I hate it. Darien, you're going to hate it. I can see that a lot of people like the new battle system, but I think it sucks, big time. MMO battle systems are the worst parts of those games for me. I certainly don't want anything like it in my console version.

I played wait mode and active mode twice each. On my 2nd run through each, I left the characters on Gambit mode and did absolutely nothing with the controller but walk from fight to fight. I beat the stages easily. I guess that bodes well for the AI, but it sucks for someone that wants complete control.

Wait mode has potential, but it's still broken (as far as I'm concerned, mind you). It doesn't stop at each person's turn, and there's no way to set it up to do that. If you choose attack for each charcter, they just keep attacking everytime their bar fills up. It's up to you to catch them after and action and deliver a new command. So, it's basically exactly the same as active mode, just minus the pause that you get when you open a menu.

And all the effects that you love from previous FF games are completely lost save the summons. I used a number of black magic spells and didn't even see the spell hit the enemy 80% of the time. My wife was looking over my shoulder, "Was that lighting? I didn't even see anything." With everybody attacking at once, it's hard to pinpoint which damage came from whom, and any special effects you might notice are lost in the shuffle of a camera that's too far zoomed in. Oh, and you can't direct the actions of your Esper, bleh.

DAMN. I have played the demo yesterday and i have to completely agree with you!

GAF make me love this battle system. Why is that a better battle system that FF10 or ATB?? ???

I can't figure why. Does change is needed just because it's change? Why a camera that shows me shit? Where are my graphical effect? Why should i like something faster -- does faster = better?
I don't like the camera and all the graphic overlapping, you can even send a character offscreen and you don't even see shit of what's happening for him/her.
What's the problem with turn-based or more traditional battle? I want to know why people tend to generally feel those system are "dated" or boring. So far it still feel they are more pleasing to the eye, easier to control and more strategic.

Enlighten me now. Please.

 

[DarienA]

If you don't see something on screen and the camera is zooming in your party leader, you're doing something wrong. Atleast that's what I think.

Noone said that turn based battle systems are dated. If anything SMT is proof that they are NOT. What's wrong with doing something different?

Nothing but I think there's a very valid concern/question here... when does this game go so far away from what we've seen in the serious that it's no longer an FF game?

I know, I know, no game stays the same... but looking at the series even up to X and X-2 the battle system didn't stay exactly the same, there were always little tweaks or new systems that tied in to it that IMO evolved the system.... again from what I've read(so I may feel different once I play it), this new system is so FAR from what we've seen in any previous FF that again my concern is that this won't feel like an FF game anymore... Someone mentioned that summons while they look good the creature isn't under your control? IIRC FFX the party got out of the way and you used the Aeon and each turn you choose which attacks it did... is this still how it works in XII?

 

[Ranger X]

If you don't see something on screen and the camera is zooming in your party leader, you're doing something wrong. Atleast that's what I think.

Noone said that turn based battle systems are dated. If anything SMT is proof that they are NOT. What's wrong with doing something different?

It's also (and mostly) related to taste but i mean, Final Fantasy have always been the avant-garde RPGs in the console world.
They always did bring new gameplay elements and did improve the traditional battle systems in console RPGs.
I was kind of expecting this again from FF12. I feel like Squaresoft is telling us "look, this is the next step". And mind you, when FF does something, other RPGs follows.
And now this new battle system i perceive it as a step BACKWARD so far.

Thank god Dragon Quest battle system is more my style. But still, i want people to answer my previous questions, i mean, i'm curious what they think. And what do you all think about this new battle system vs the old ones being the more objective as possible.
Place yourself in the game designer seat and let's say you had to create the ultimate battle system gameplay-wise. Would you have taken this route?

 

[BlueTsunami]

IIRC FFX the party got out of the way and you used the Aeon and each turn you choose which attacks it did... is this still how it works in XII?

But all Summons before then were single attacks (Cinematics). I haven't played the Demo yet but I like the idea of Summons not being in your control and being their own seperate entity.

 

[DarienA]

But all Summons before then were single attacks (Cinematics). I haven't played the Demo yet but I like the idea of Summons not being in your control and being their own seperate entity.

True.... I'm not either way on the Summons part I'm just curious to know which way they went with it this time... Summon gets one attack and goes away or summon stays around and fights instead of party under your control.

 

[teiresias]

Geez, I'd hate to see some of you even attempt to play a game like Baldur's Gate.

 

[BlueTsunami]

True.... I'm not either way on the Summons part I'm just curious to know which way they went with it this time... Summon gets one attack and goes away or summon stays around and fights instead of party under your control.

Although...I'm getting kinda struck on the head with memories of playing Summoner on the PS2 if they do use the "Cannot control summons" way of doing it.

 

[DarienA]

Geez, I'd hate to see some of you even attempt to play a game like Baldur's Gate.

...that is so not the point. I can't speak for anyone one else, but I'm perfectly capable of playing Baldur's Gate... I just have zero interest in it.

 

[Zilch]

DAMN. I have played the demo yesterday and i have to completely agree with you!

GAF make me love this battle system. Why is that a better battle system that FF10 or ATB?? ???

I can't figure why. Does change is needed just because it's change? Why a camera that shows me shit? Where are my graphical effect? Why should i like something faster -- does faster = better?
I don't like the camera and all the graphic overlapping, you can even send a character offscreen and you don't even see shit of what's happening for him/her.
What's the problem with turn-based or more traditional battle? I want to know why people tend to generally feel those system are "dated" or boring. So far it still feel they are more pleasing to the eye, easier to control and more strategic.

Enlighten me now. Please.

You're being totally irrational. This is a big change for the FF series and obviously when something changes it takes awhile for you to adjust to it. This style of battle has it's positive and negative points just like 'traditional' turn-based combat does.

Imagine if the scenario was the exact opposite... people (like yourself) would be exclaiming that the battles were so slow, and "how stupid is it that my party lines up to fight the enemies who are in another line?" and "why the hell can't I see where the enemies are before I fight them?" and "all I do is hit X ad naeseum til the bad guys are dead... this is so tedious" and "these random battles really kill my interest in exploring areas, this sucks."

So get some perspective. This system isn't better than another system, it's just different. If you can't live with that, the FF series may no longer be for you. *shrug*

 

[Zilch]

When I say "imagine the scenario is the exact opposite" I mean imagine if the battle system in FFXII was the 'old way' (the way that all previous FFs had done it) and the traditional turn based battles were the 'new way' that was appearing in FFXII. I know that's complicated sounding, but that's why I left it out of my post... I was just hoping people reading it would know what I meant.