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Final Fantasy XII (PS2) is still a gorgeous game

Skilletor

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Dec 4, 2006
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Well play the game for yourself then... People like to hype certain things up or un-hype certain things down.

FFXII isn't near memorable as the previous games.

I can name you Top 5 moments from each games I mentioned before with Top 10 memorable tracks and when exactly you hear them plus Top 5 emotional scenes.... But I can't do the same for FFXII.

It's Just so forgettable.
I can do that for every FF. Maybe you have a bad memory
 

EvilKatarn

Member
Dec 17, 2012
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This is the FF I really want a HD remake of. I've never played it and the designs, aside from Vaan himself, are cool as hell.

Hopefully the music, story and gameplay live up to the great designs.
 

Roto13

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Dec 5, 2008
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SporeCrawler

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Apr 26, 2013
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i dont understand how you SE made such a great game (and FFX, FFX-2 for that matter) and then completely failed with FFXIII in comparison.
 

Cornbread78

Member
Jul 27, 2009
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Best case scenario would be that a remaster has been in the works for a while behind the scenes.

Otherwise,given how much larger this game is than FFX/Type-0, it would probably take years before we see the remaster.
It's only a matter of time before we finally get an HD version of XII and hopefully, Revenant Wings also. Both would be killer on Vita.
 

AmanoBuff

Member
Mar 24, 2013
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Singapore
Well play the game for yourself then... People like to hype certain things up or un-hype certain things down.

FFXII isn't near memorable as the previous games.

I can name you Top 5 moments from each games I mentioned before with Top 10 memorable tracks and when exactly you hear them plus Top 5 emotional scenes.... But I can't do the same for FFXII.

It's Just so forgettable.
Of course I'll play it. You can bet on that. When we get an HD release of course, since it's not possible for me to play it in any other way.

And you said shallow, not forgettable. Call it semantics and all that, but they mean completely different things.


Edit:

It's only a matter of time before we finally get an HD version of XII and hopefully, Revenant Wings also. Both would be killer on Vita.
Couldn't agree more. But I'm not sure SQEX would do it. RW's visuals seem like a ton of work to remaster.
 

Roto13

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Dec 5, 2008
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Revenant Wings was so ugly. The sprites themselves were mostly the same things they had been using in the last couple of Tactics games, which was fine, but they kept scaling them and it was just hideous. DS did not have the resolution for that.
 

Sheroking

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Feb 10, 2012
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Melted, plastic faces is what I remember most.

But I do remember thinking "how the hell is the PS2 running these summons?".
 
Dec 6, 2008
5,633
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34
Kuwait
When I talk about FFXII of course I'm talking about my opinion of the game... It's not a certain fact.

I find the game shallow and forgettable story - OST and world wise.

But it's absolutely good in gameplay - level design and characters wise.

When hopefully they announce the HD Remaster version it will be in my top list of waiting games.. The game was extremely fun to play.
 
Sep 22, 2014
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I actually loved the gambit system. Sure for mobs it meant walk up and let the AI smack them to death but some of the bosses were pretty fun thanks to it. Sure there may have been less on the spot strategy, but it was about preparing for the battle instead.

One boss in particular seemed impossible to kill even at max level with the best weapons without using an extremely complex gambit and equipment setup that would pull damage of a certain element towards one main character who could absorb a small amount of the damage while the others cast specific buffs and spam heals. This guy was literally shelling out only a few points less than max damage every half a second so to actually work out a gambit system that would allow to survive for more than 2 seconds, let alone win, was extremely satisfying. Just in a different way to most FF games.
Omega MK XII. Beating it felt more satisfying than BB/DS could ever be.

Arguably one of the hardest fights in the FF series too.
 

Myriadis

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Jul 21, 2009
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Still my favorite Final Fantasy game after all these years. What I don't like about other games in the series is that they tend to force-feed everything, even the smallest things of story into you for the fear that the player won't understand it (and given the reactions on the simple story in FFXIII, they may have a point there).Yet I still massively prefer the way FFXII does it, toning down all the explationary stuff yet giving plenty of background stuff and optional conversations that flesh out everything. The characters are mostly really good and even though Vaan is not that amazing, he is still a lot better than the entire FFX cast. Especially that cancer Tidus.

It's so good that I just got a dream today being incredibly nostalgic over that game. I barely even dream about games and that one even managed to give me nostalgia in a dream.
 

Regenerated34

Neo Member
Jun 30, 2013
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Was never able to play this when it was out on the PS2, so I'm really hoping that the FFX remaster sales were enough to warrant this getting its own remaster.
 

neoism

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May 5, 2007
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I would take another YEAR delay on FF15 if it meant we got FF12 remaster next year....
square could fucking patch the demo somemore.. -__-
 

Sign

Member
Jun 4, 2012
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745
My favorite game of all time.

Well play the game for yourself then... People like to hype certain things up or un-hype certain things down.

FFXII isn't near memorable as the previous games.

I can name you Top 5 moments from each games I mentioned before with Top 10 memorable tracks and when exactly you hear them plus Top 5 emotional scenes.... But I can't do the same for FFXII.

It's Just so forgettable.
Obviously, opinions... but what you've described, to me, is a disappointment in that the game didn't hold your hand. The fact that the game didn't play some sentimental music and tell you what to feel.

"Aerith, died! Isn't this music sad? This cut scene was in the trailer! Feel something, yet?"

"Isn't this opera memorable!? Isn't this music memorable? You should remember this!"

"Isn't this formal ball charming? Oh, she is pulling him to dance, how romantic! Aren't you romanticized yet!?"

Final Fantasy 12 doesn't really put a lot of stock in these moments because, frankly, it is too busy being an actual world -a world that doesn't always revolve around the player, or try to hang its hat on telling the player how to feel.

You know what I remember about XII?

I remember standing on the bank of the Nebra River with Penelo for the first time and having one of the strongest feelings of place I had ever had in a single player game. I needed to get a sunstone from the Giza Planes, but decided to take a detour through the Estersand. I had fought my way through a maze-like area, saw the rebuilding efforts at Nalbina Fortress, had almost been killed by a crazy cockatrice, and even visited a group at a small encampment that was worried about their family members across the channel. Here I stood on the edge of this near crystalline river under the mid-day sun totally of my own accord and felt that there was more to the world than what the plot had in store.

I remember crossing the Giza Planes during the rains and being killed by one of the water elementals that patrolled the grounds. It led me to feeling both an incredible sense of awe at the landscapes beauty, the thunderous sky reflected through the gathering water on the ground, while also giving me a great fear of what was around the next corner.

I remember watching airships skitter across the sky in Bhujerba for the first time.

I remember being an hour into traveling across the Ogir-Yensa Sandsea and realizing everything I saw on its edge I would get to touch.

I remember approaching Raithwall and being in awe of its architecture as towering columns flanked me on either side. Then, once inside seeing the ancient fires of the past dance in the distance. Also, running from one death wall only to be greeted by another.

I think what I love about the game so much is that it is a world first and a vehicle to drive a plot second. I look back at previous FFs and my enjoyment of those games largely relies on the plot. I love Final Fantasy X, but when replaying it everything I see (even camera angles) are always the same. I round the same bend looking at the lake the same way I always do. I will feel sad when Wandering Flame kicks in, in the same place it always does, like I always do. You default to giving Top 5 Moments (tm) because moments are fixed because previous Final Fantasies are fixed. There is always something new to discover about XII because it is a world and that world is alive.

So, I disagree with the assertion that Final Fantasy XII isn't memorable.
 

Y2Kev

TLG Fan Caretaker Est. 2009
Jul 6, 2005
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I think I'm going to cry.

FFXII has those moments too, you know. Reddas' sacrifice. Fran's union with Mjrn. Any number of Balthier's monologues. Confronting Bergan at Mt. Bur-Omisace. Ashe's recognizing the Occuria have been screwing with her. Those are the "fixed" moments. But I agree the "floating" moments are as special. The feeling of low-town. The sheer breadth of the sandsea. Looking in wonderment at the facade of the Stillshrine of Miriam. Feeling the virtual wind in your hair as you trek across the Ozmone Plains. The excitement and danger of the Highwastes.

FFXII is just a monstrous, sprawling game that doesn't fully deliver on the promise of the spectacular first 5 or 10 hours, but that doesn't make it a bad game. The gameplay has holes in it and I personally would love to play ZJS.

Vayne's speech in Rabanastre is a serious "when will ur fav" moment for me in Final Fantasy. What touches that? Not much.
 

Razmos

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Jan 19, 2015
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Manchester, England
My favorite game of all time.



Obviously, opinions... but what you've described, to me, is a disappointment in that the game didn't hold your hand. The fact that the game didn't play some sentimental music and tell you what to feel.

"Aerith, died! Isn't this music sad? This cut scene was in the trailer! Feel something, yet?"

"Isn't this opera memorable!? Isn't this music memorable? You should remember this!"

"Isn't this formal ball charming? Oh, she is pulling him to dance, how romantic! Aren't you romanticized yet!?"

Final Fantasy 12 doesn't really put a lot of stock in these moments because, frankly, it is too busy being an actual world -a world that doesn't always revolve around the player, or try to hang its hat on telling the player how to feel.

You know what I remember about XII?

I remember standing on the bank of the Nebra River with Penelo for the first time and having one of the strongest feelings of place I had ever had in a single player game. I needed to get a sunstone from the Giza Planes, but decided to take a detour through the Estersand. I had fought my way through a maze-like area, saw the rebuilding efforts at Nalbina Fortress, had almost been killed by a crazy cockatrice, and even visited a group at a small encampment that was worried about their family members across the channel. Here I stood on the edge of this near crystalline river under the mid-day sun totally of my own accord and felt that there was more to the world than what the plot had in store.

I remember crossing the Giza Planes during the rains and being killed by one of the water elementals that patrolled the grounds. It led me to feeling both an incredible sense of awe at the landscapes beauty, the thunderous sky reflected through the gathering water on the ground, while also giving me a great fear of what was around the next corner.

I remember watching airships skitter across the sky in Bhujerba for the first time.

I remember being an hour into traveling across the Ogir-Yensa Sandsea and realizing everything I saw on its edge I would get to touch.

I remember approaching Raithwall and being in awe of its architecture as towering columns flanked me on either side. Then, once inside seeing the ancient fires of the past dance in the distance. Also, running from one death wall only to be greeted by another.

I think what I love about the game so much is that it is a world first and a vehicle to drive a plot second. I look back at previous FFs and my enjoyment of those games largely relies on the plot. I love Final Fantasy X, but when replaying it everything I see (even camera angles) are always the same. I round the same bend looking at the lake the same way I always do. I will feel sad when Wandering Flame kicks in, in the same place it always does, like I always do. You default to giving Top 5 Moments (tm) because moments are fixed because previous Final Fantasies are fixed. There is always something new to discover about XII because it is a world and that world is alive.

So, I disagree with the assertion that Final Fantasy XII isn't memorable.
A great post, all those memories are the kind of memories I have from the game also. There are obviously some parts of the story that really stick in my mind, like Larsa joining you in rescuing Penelo, Fran going berserk,
Reddas
sacrificing himself, and the fight against Dr. Cid, but the majority of the memories are the small moments, the hunts, the fights, exploring the landscape, finding loot, solving puzzles, doing sidequests.

It can't really be summed up in a top 5 list like the other Final Fantasy games, IMO.
 

Red Liquorice

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Jun 4, 2011
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I wish this had been made available on PSN for PS3, I guess they like to give the series a generational breather, but I wasn't ready to let go of this game after my PS2 laser went.

If they do a PS4 remaster I hope it's more than just some upscale, this game deserves much more than a fuzzy trapazoid-headed quick'n'dirty port - the battle system gave a lot of choice and control but still felt like a traditional turnbased system.
 

Y2Kev

TLG Fan Caretaker Est. 2009
Jul 6, 2005
91,410
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A great post, all those memories are the kind of memories I have from the game also. There are obviously some parts of the story that really stick in my mind, like Larsa joining you in rescuing Penelo, Fran going berserk,
Reddas
sacrificing himself, and the fight against Dr. Cid, but the majority of the memories are the small moments, the hunts, the fights, exploring the landscape, finding loot, solving puzzles, doing sidequests.

It can't really be summed up in a top 5 list like the other Final Fantasy games, IMO.
The parts that make it a game, basically. :)

FF7 is probably my favorite or second favorite game of all time, so I get the appeal of the narrative driven FF. But the way so many people complain about FFXII's characterization or plotting or whatever just has always rubbed me the wrong way.

The BIGGEST sadness of mine about this game is how it was an evolutionary dead-end. Square Enix always took their mechanics "a step forward" in most of their titles (except for 8, where even then it keeps 95% of the general conceit of how a game should play). FFXII? That wonderful, unchained freedom of wandering massive plains and fields and fighting big monsters with bombastic music and big blue skies overhead? You know where that went? Western developers took it and started kicking Square in the ass.

Instead we got two iterations on Lighting's Ass Quest.
 

HeelPower

Member
Mar 12, 2013
11,342
1
0
FXII's in-game cutscene hands, heck even the whole character model, are perfectly doable on 7th-gen consoles. There's no excuse for the rectangular prism hands on Lightning's in-game model. Even open world games like GTAV and Ground Zeroes last-gen had better in-game fingers than that.
Well,lightning's character model definitely improved in Lightning Returns and had good fingers.




But then character models were the only thing that looked legit good in LR.Probably drained all their resources lol
 

WooHooAlex

Member
Feb 8, 2013
2,465
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0
FFXII is honestly my favorite Final Fantasy game ever and easily one of my top 5 all time.
I'm more excited at the thought of replaying XII in HD than I am for XV right now.
 
I've often wondered how the Japanese script compares.
apparently it was a heck of a lot drier than the english localisation. they were given a lot of freedom when translating and it worked fantastically. for all the rubbish i feel square-enix have produced lately, they did give alex o. smith & his team the freedom to work their magic on final fantasy xii.
 

HeelPower

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Mar 12, 2013
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The BIGGEST sadness of mine about this game is how it was an evolutionary dead-end. Square Enix always took their mechanics "a step forward" in most of their titles
Well,the game's automated systems definitely carried over and affected the subsequent games.

Paradigms in FFXIII and automated party in FFXV can definitely be traced back to FFXII's gambits.

I would say this is a negative contribution by FFXII tbh.
 
Dec 14, 2008
33,557
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The parts that make it a game, basically. :)

FF7 is probably my favorite or second favorite game of all time, so I get the appeal of the narrative driven FF. But the way so many people complain about FFXII's characterization or plotting or whatever just has always rubbed me the wrong way.

The BIGGEST sadness of mine about this game is how it was an evolutionary dead-end. Square Enix always took their mechanics "a step forward" in most of their titles (except for 8, where even then it keeps 95% of the general conceit of how a game should play). FFXII? That wonderful, unchained freedom of wandering massive plains and fields and fighting big monsters with bombastic music and big blue skies overhead? You know where that went? Western developers took it and started kicking Square in the ass.

Instead we got two iterations on Lighting's Ass Quest.
FFXV is going back towards the large MMO-style open world seen in FFXII. They are going to use something like Gambits for control of your party members as well IIRC.
 

Shepard

Member
Mar 11, 2011
4,524
0
0
My favorite game of all time.



Obviously, opinions... but what you've described, to me, is a disappointment in that the game didn't hold your hand. The fact that the game didn't play some sentimental music and tell you what to feel.

"Aerith, died! Isn't this music sad? This cut scene was in the trailer! Feel something, yet?"

"Isn't this opera memorable!? Isn't this music memorable? You should remember this!"

"Isn't this formal ball charming? Oh, she is pulling him to dance, how romantic! Aren't you romanticized yet!?"

Final Fantasy 12 doesn't really put a lot of stock in these moments because, frankly, it is too busy being an actual world -a world that doesn't always revolve around the player, or try to hang its hat on telling the player how to feel.

You know what I remember about XII?

I remember standing on the bank of the Nebra River with Penelo for the first time and having one of the strongest feelings of place I had ever had in a single player game. I needed to get a sunstone from the Giza Planes, but decided to take a detour through the Estersand. I had fought my way through a maze-like area, saw the rebuilding efforts at Nalbina Fortress, had almost been killed by a crazy cockatrice, and even visited a group at a small encampment that was worried about their family members across the channel. Here I stood on the edge of this near crystalline river under the mid-day sun totally of my own accord and felt that there was more to the world than what the plot had in store.

I remember crossing the Giza Planes during the rains and being killed by one of the water elementals that patrolled the grounds. It led me to feeling both an incredible sense of awe at the landscapes beauty, the thunderous sky reflected through the gathering water on the ground, while also giving me a great fear of what was around the next corner.

I remember watching airships skitter across the sky in Bhujerba for the first time.

I remember being an hour into traveling across the Ogir-Yensa Sandsea and realizing everything I saw on its edge I would get to touch.

I remember approaching Raithwall and being in awe of its architecture as towering columns flanked me on either side. Then, once inside seeing the ancient fires of the past dance in the distance. Also, running from one death wall only to be greeted by another.

I think what I love about the game so much is that it is a world first and a vehicle to drive a plot second. I look back at previous FFs and my enjoyment of those games largely relies on the plot. I love Final Fantasy X, but when replaying it everything I see (even camera angles) are always the same. I round the same bend looking at the lake the same way I always do. I will feel sad when Wandering Flame kicks in, in the same place it always does, like I always do. You default to giving Top 5 Moments (tm) because moments are fixed because previous Final Fantasies are fixed. There is always something new to discover about XII because it is a world and that world is alive.

So, I disagree with the assertion that Final Fantasy XII isn't memorable.
Fantastic post. One of the moments I remember the most about the game was going through those big oil(?) tanks in the sandsea when I suddenly noticed how the music fit so well with the enviroment, and I just stood there for a good minute staring at the distant terrain. Also my favorite game of all time.
 

Roto13

Member
Dec 5, 2008
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I think I'm going to cry.

FFXII has those moments too, you know. Reddas' sacrifice. Fran's union with Mjrn. Any number of Balthier's monologues. Confronting Bergan at Mt. Bur-Omisace. Ashe's recognizing the Occuria have been screwing with her. Those are the "fixed" moments. But I agree the "floating" moments are as special. The feeling of low-town. The sheer breadth of the sandsea. Looking in wonderment at the facade of the Stillshrine of Miriam. Feeling the virtual wind in your hair as you trek across the Ozmone Plains. The excitement and danger of the Highwastes.

FFXII is just a monstrous, sprawling game that doesn't fully deliver on the promise of the spectacular first 5 or 10 hours, but that doesn't make it a bad game. The gameplay has holes in it and I personally would love to play ZJS.

Vayne's speech in Rabanastre is a serious "when will ur fav" moment for me in Final Fantasy. What touches that? Not much.
I wasn't even in it for the story. I just really wanted to spend time in that world. I love that there are huge sections you'll just never go to if you only follow the story marker and don't take the time to wander around and explore.

Basically why I was so excited for Xenoblade. (And it didn't disappoint.)
 

Negator

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Feb 5, 2009
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Final Fantasy XII was such a miserable experience.

Cool, I got this new equipment that I want to use, oh wait, I have look on the internet to find out where it is on the license board. I can't control my other party members so I have to learn basic programming to make them not useless. Once I've done that, I can basically make the game play itself, awesome. Who are the people in this story and why am I supposed to care? Why do Vaan and Penelo even exist? Why do I only remember two audio tracks from both 30+ hour saves that I wasted my time on?
 

Sign

Member
Jun 4, 2012
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745
I think I'm going to cry.

FFXII has those moments too, you know. Reddas' sacrifice. Fran's union with Mjrn. Any number of Balthier's monologues. Confronting Bergan at Mt. Bur-Omisace. Ashe's recognizing the Occuria have been screwing with her. Those are the "fixed" moments. But I agree the "floating" moments are as special. The feeling of low-town. The sheer breadth of the sandsea. Looking in wonderment at the facade of the Stillshrine of Miriam. Feeling the virtual wind in your hair as you trek across the Ozmone Plains. The excitement and danger of the Highwastes.

FFXII is just a monstrous, sprawling game that doesn't fully deliver on the promise of the spectacular first 5 or 10 hours, but that doesn't make it a bad game. The gameplay has holes in it and I personally would love to play ZJS.

Vayne's speech in Rabanastre is a serious "when will ur fav" moment for me in Final Fantasy. What touches that? Not much.
Oh, I don't disagree! I was playing world of warcraft at the time of XII's release, and before that had tried playing a lot other recent titles and just could not pull myself from wow. But, XII did it effortlessly. Even at the time I was amazed that a single player game could stand toe-to-toe with the insurmountable level of enjoyment I was getting from wow. As a result, XII was sorta bound to me by its floating moments, but it does have really great fixed moments as well.

The opening sequence is easily my favorite in any game. I still vividly remember watching Vayne's speech and thinking how crazy it was that they were doing this in a cg cut scene, lol.

A great post, all those memories are the kind of memories I have from the game also. There are obviously some parts of the story that really stick in my mind, like Larsa joining you in rescuing Penelo, Fran going berserk,
Reddas
sacrificing himself, and the fight against Dr. Cid, but the majority of the memories are the small moments, the hunts, the fights, exploring the landscape, finding loot, solving puzzles, doing sidequests.

It can't really be summed up in a top 5 list like the other Final Fantasy games, IMO.
This was what I was trying to get at. It has those fixed moments, but it doesn't need them.

FFXV is going back towards the large MMO-style open world seen in FFXII. They are going to use something like Gambits for control of your party members as well IIRC.
I feel like XV is trying to be more than this honestly. I feel like XV wants to be a game about travel, which is super exciting because so few games are about that.

Watching the world stream by the passenger seat window. Stopping at night to camp, then getting back on the road in the morning. Following some lonely backwoods road covered in early day fog then watching the sun cut through it as it rises over the mountains, etc.
 

Negator

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Feb 5, 2009
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Yes you can. Since you apparently really want to manually cast Cure every time your health drops below 70%. Whatever blows your skirt up, I guess.
Sure if I had superhuman micromanagement skills I could, but it is pointless to do that in this game. God forbid I want to control the characters like I would in every other game instead of spending 20 minutes in the menu like I'm on a goddamn spreadsheet.
 

Y2Kev

TLG Fan Caretaker Est. 2009
Jul 6, 2005
91,410
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FFXV doesn't have the same general flow of XII. FFXV has so much button pressing! Not very relaxing. Honestly I find it to be too action-oriented. It's not very relaxing for me.
 

Roto13

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Dec 5, 2008
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820
Sure if I had superhuman micromanagement skills I could, but it is pointless to do that in this game. God forbid I want to control the characters like I would in every other game instead of spending 20 minutes in the menu like I'm on a goddamn spreadsheet.
If you set it to Wait mode it is literally like every ATB battle system from the previous games except you have to press X to bring up the menu in the first place. Horrors.
 

Fimbulvetr

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Feb 12, 2009
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Sure if I had superhuman micromanagement skills I could, but it is pointless to do that in this game. God forbid I want to control the characters like I would in every other game instead of spending 20 minutes in the menu like I'm on a goddamn spreadsheet.
You can use any ability manually, with any character, any time you want.
 

Lee Chaolan

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Dec 21, 2012
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If they were to announce a FF XII HD remaster, it would probably be at TGS or another show and not E3, right?
 

Stallion Dan

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Jun 8, 2014
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Final Fantasy XII was such a miserable experience.

Cool, I got this new equipment that I want to use, oh wait, I have look on the internet to find out where it is on the license board. I can't control my other party members so I have to learn basic programming to make them not useless. Once I've done that, I can basically make the game play itself, awesome. Who are the people in this story and why am I supposed to care? Why do Vaan and Penelo even exist? Why do I only remember two audio tracks from both 30+ hour saves that I wasted my time on?
"Why is RPG like an RPG and not an action game"
 

Cidd

Member
Jan 14, 2013
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For some reason this game always reminds me of Star Wars, Which isn't a bad thing.