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Final Fantasy XIV Information Thread | PC Open Beta... yeah it's not really open.
- Thread starter Kagari
- Start date
.I played both FFXI and WoW for years and I prefer WoW's controls. You could even customize it to be keyboard-only controls just like FF11. It's only a mousey click-fest if you wanted it to be. I had macros & keybinds for skills, ran/strafed with wasd, and used the mouse for camera & targeting. Like others said, it's not like WoW's controls are exclusive to western MMOs only. The majority of the players will probably be on PC, so if they're only retaining the old setup because of the controller pad, that is even more lame. :<
My concern is that SE seems to be stubbornly sticking to their 11 setup (useless wonky mouse). Is it that hard to add options and make the mouse/camera not suck?
Minor gripe, but I hope they add party positions/markers on the map (not just mini-map). Pain in the butt trying to look for your party if you died and have to respawn at a homepoint or something (especially if they plan on roaming parties).
My concern is that SE seems to be stubbornly sticking to their 11 setup (useless wonky mouse). Is it that hard to add options and make the mouse/camera not suck?
Minor gripe, but I hope they add party positions/markers on the map (not just mini-map). Pain in the butt trying to look for your party if you died and have to respawn at a homepoint or something (especially if they plan on roaming parties).
demosthenes
Member
Teknoman said:Not me. Its all about...
If you use a keyboard to play XI, thats all you need. Well that and arrowkeys for the camera. * was rest, - was menu, 7 was for autorun, enter for confirm.
Of course i've moved on the 360 gamepad, which works exceptionally well.
I never used the mouse on PC, don't understand why you would :lol
notworksafe
Member
Yeah that's a little rougher with a laptop (which I have now).Teknoman said:Not me. Its all about...
I tried kb/m (on my old desktop) but it was just too broken. So eventually I just went kb/360 controller and it worked decently. Now that I only have a laptop I'd prefer not to have to use the controller when I want to play XIV.
You wouldn't. Not because it wouldn't be more useful, but because it was so broken.demosthenes said:
Mandoric said:
You act like a kb/m setup that actually uses the mouse well is exclusive to WoW, and not used by the entirety of PC gaming. FFXIV will probably be the only PC game released within the last five years (other than that atrocious RE4 port) that won't use the mouse well. It's not an issue of "FFXIV not being like WoW", it's an issue of FFXIV not taking full advantage of the medium it's on. It is fucking shameful and SE should be embarrassed.
Wow at some of the "its not broke so don't fix it comments", nobody wants this game to be WoW and people need to stop pretending that this is FF11-2.
There is no reason that SE shouldn't add functioning mouse support its 2010 for god sake.
Nearly all old Korean MMO's used to use point and click but they now have both, there is no reason FF14 can't have its old control set up and a more modern one also.
There is no reason that SE shouldn't add functioning mouse support its 2010 for god sake.
Nearly all old Korean MMO's used to use point and click but they now have both, there is no reason FF14 can't have its old control set up and a more modern one also.
HappyBivouac
Member
Guys. I love numpad+arrowkeys controls. I honestly think it's vastly superior for this type of game, though I'd have a hard time arguing why. But seriously, some of the comments here are ridiculous (I suppose pot/kettle if you read my stuff below, huh). "FFXI doesn't use mouse look because it's a Japanese game." What? lol.
Fact of the matter is, most gamers these days are impatient whiny pricks (yeah yeah hyperbole elitist whatever) who cannot be arsed to figure out a control scheme. I want this game to be successful, and in order for it to be so, the devs'll have to cater at least somewhat to impatient whiny pricks. That means the same wasd controls with mouse camera yoinked from every goddamn shooter and now every goddamn MMO have to be in the game and relatively functional. It is a deal breaker for a lot of people, because in this age of "ROFL this game sucks" people would rather just dismiss something than give it time to sink in.
I think just about any reasonable control scheme can be learned and ingrained into the player's mind as second nature within a couple hours of play. The thing is, lots of people these days won't even try.
Fact of the matter is, most gamers these days are impatient whiny pricks (yeah yeah hyperbole elitist whatever) who cannot be arsed to figure out a control scheme. I want this game to be successful, and in order for it to be so, the devs'll have to cater at least somewhat to impatient whiny pricks. That means the same wasd controls with mouse camera yoinked from every goddamn shooter and now every goddamn MMO have to be in the game and relatively functional. It is a deal breaker for a lot of people, because in this age of "ROFL this game sucks" people would rather just dismiss something than give it time to sink in.
I think just about any reasonable control scheme can be learned and ingrained into the player's mind as second nature within a couple hours of play. The thing is, lots of people these days won't even try.
HappyBivouac said:
Why break convention with something that works?
It's like trying to reinvent the wheel when that round donut shape has worked so well for so long. Just improve on it.
Moreover, it's a mark of a game to try and reinvent something as fundamental as a control scheme, just for the sake of being different. Unless the game plays in a fundamentally different way (it's a MMO-ARPG for example), then why not just refine and reuse what's already there?
It extends to other aspects of their design as well. Some parts are going to be fantastic and innovative doing some stuff that hasn't been done before in a way that hasn't been thought about before... and some parts are going to flat out suck, because they're essentially just poorer iterations of something that's already been done before.
But that comes down to the strength of their design team; being able to sort out the wheat from the chaff, and not including the chaff into the mix.
HappyBivouac
Member
I should note that my post was written under circumstances of lethargy and mild inebriation. I hope they have good "traditional" pc gamer friendly controls in there. And I agree with you, it should be a design goal to be accommodating and easy to pick up. That's just smart.
But on the other side, I do think we're looking at a very different " gamer" today than we were looking at several years ago. I at least half blame gaming forums such as this one. We;re constantly talking about "blahblah poor design choices blahblah" that we've become so accustomed to dismissing things.
When I first picked up FFXI, there was a daunting amount of stuff to learn, including to controls. But to me it was like "holy crap this world and everything about it is so cool I will invest whatever I need to in order to immerse myself into it!!" Games of the past often asked this from the player, and I feel we're shying further and further away from that to boost sales or whatever. And we may just be losing something important in the process.
Sorry about that last sentence. I just had to put something like that in there.
But on the other side, I do think we're looking at a very different " gamer" today than we were looking at several years ago. I at least half blame gaming forums such as this one. We;re constantly talking about "blahblah poor design choices blahblah" that we've become so accustomed to dismissing things.
When I first picked up FFXI, there was a daunting amount of stuff to learn, including to controls. But to me it was like "holy crap this world and everything about it is so cool I will invest whatever I need to in order to immerse myself into it!!" Games of the past often asked this from the player, and I feel we're shying further and further away from that to boost sales or whatever. And we may just be losing something important in the process.
Sorry about that last sentence. I just had to put something like that in there.
For me playing on PC was a hassle, because the only mouse I had was a wireless one and with MMO addiction you run out of batteries fast.(World of Warcraft I mean) I loved FFXI's numpad control scheme. Not everyone will, but hey if they can give us the options of just changing our controls to whatever we want, then everyone probably wins.
I plan to get it on my PS3 to play with my dual shock and USB keyboard mostly because my days of top end PC's are long gone and that's how I like it. Gah I want this alpha to be over with already so I can play the PS3 beta. :lol
I plan to get it on my PS3 to play with my dual shock and USB keyboard mostly because my days of top end PC's are long gone and that's how I like it. Gah I want this alpha to be over with already so I can play the PS3 beta. :lol
This is true. The biggest thing I don't get is why people are against improvements. Nobody is going to force you to use kbm. If you prefer keypad or controller keep at it and good for you. Some people prefer to play with kbm though, so why can't we want improvements made to bring those controlls into the 21st century?Spire said:
Zaptruder said:
If you don't fuck with conventions that are currently accepted, then you'll never make much progress.
That said, although I find FFXI's keyboard only controls to be far superior to WoW's keyboard/mouse controls, I would have thought SE would include both as an option. Really though, it's not much of a problem, the time you would invest adapting to this control scheme (an hour at most?) is nothing compared to the time you will likely put into the game in total.
I've played FFXI since the game was released on the PC in Japan, the whole time using the kb method so I'm used to that for sure. Saying that, after playing the Alpha of FFXIV, they really need to add mouse controls, I really wanted to be able to control the camera without the kb this time, no excuse to include both methods in this day and age.
Do you think there will be any chance they will add icons of interest next to NPC's names.
I don't really wana see glaring WoW style exclamation and question marks, but maybe flashing NPC names when you walk past a NPC with a quest or information would be helpful.
I know they said a while back that they plan to have guildleve objectives showing up on the map, not sure if thats implemented yet though.
Watching the Pooky Poo stream left me wanting to tear my eyes out at one point because she didn't have a clue where to go.
I don't really wana see glaring WoW style exclamation and question marks, but maybe flashing NPC names when you walk past a NPC with a quest or information would be helpful.
I know they said a while back that they plan to have guildleve objectives showing up on the map, not sure if thats implemented yet though.
Watching the Pooky Poo stream left me wanting to tear my eyes out at one point because she didn't have a clue where to go.
Jinko said:
I hope not, that just makes everything extremely easy. I don't want to arrive to a new town and see some glowing shit from far away and say ah yeah, that's X npc or Y shop. I hated how in Aion all the npcs from quests or missions were so blatantly displayed making running from point A to B an extremely mindless task.
God forbid people spending time clicking on several npcs to see if they have something relevant to say.
Khrno said:
Seems you didn't read what I said very well, don't want glowing markers, just something that highlights a character when in close proximity, sort of like an NPC shouting to you as you run past them.
Looking at the city and how big it is, it would be more than clicking on a few npcs also, in most cases you would be forced to tab out and look online like FF11.
I'm all for the exploration of a city and its NPC's but I still think they need to give hints to people otherwise its guna be invisable objectives again.
Catering to casuals is fine, but putting the game on easy mode is just dumbing down the game. I really hope they don't have npc's shouting that they want to talk to you. I liked the since of exploring a new town and learning about the area without being told what i should do or go first. I hope they keep this exploration element.
TheChillyAcademic
Member
Jesus Christ its like the Montel Williams show in here :lol
So I realize it currently isn't implemented, but I'm assuming races will eventually make a difference?
So I realize it currently isn't implemented, but I'm assuming races will eventually make a difference?
Khrno said:
That's only interesting the first time. After that, not having the markers becomes annoying and cumbersome real quick.
Ronok said:
There's no reason to mess with the currently accepted conventions when the currently accepted conventions are the best possible. Likewise, there's no reason to mess with them when what you're attempting has been proven inferior.
Not having a proper Keyboard/Mouse control scheme wasn't even acceptable when FFXI came out. In the age of World of Warcraft, Everquest 2, City of Heroes, Aion, and Lord of the Rings online, it's certainly not acceptable now.
TheChillyAcademic
Member
Khrno said:
And clans amount to political allegiance?
notworksafe
Member
I believe Square has said that there will be minor stat differences between clans.TheChillyAcademic said:
When I was playing on Thursday, I noticed that the map has been much improved and spelled things out a bit more then FFXI. It seems that's how they may be taking care of not knowing where to go or what to do without having to go into "easy mode", which I don't believe icons over a head are anyway.
Khrno said:
Did you play FFXI? It might seem like a fun deal at first but trying to find an NPC when the best idea of where it's at is one of the cities is absolutely painful. Unfortunately since FFXIs quest info was so vague you almost always had to go online for quest guides.
Robobandit
Member
Husker86 said:
As much as I loved FF XI, having to use widescan to track quest npcs was silly.
Well looking at how detailed XIV's descriptions are, I dont think we'll have to worry about that. Plus it doesnt seem like you'll need to buy maps. Nothing glowing over NPCs heads, but as long as they tell you where you should go, you'll be ok.
In other words, this game has a greater amount of traditional FF than MMO, unlike XI.
In other words, this game has a greater amount of traditional FF than MMO, unlike XI.
notworksafe
Member
Teknoman said:
Yeah XIV has really detailed quests, and they mix in the objective with the story. The one problem I still noticed was getting the quest in the first place. The only reason I knew where to go was that Square put the names and locations of quest NPCs in the Alpha manual.
I like the idea of having someone that either has a title like "Guildleve Master" or sends me a whisper to come over to them. There were a few instances of this in WoW that I thought were cooler then just having a ! above their head. As long as I get some notice of who to talk to, I'll be happy.
notworksafe
Member
Hopefully they can change the other thing I hate, which is that the chat log shows the status effects and such of everyone around you. That is really obnoxious if you are trying to read NPC text or have a conversion. Move that stuff to the Battle Log tab please!
notworksafe said:
They should have filters in the final version much like the ones in FF11.
One thing I noticed whilst watching Pooky Poo's stream is that you can now see party members negative status effects when they are targeted, playing a whitemage in FF11 and not knowing if someone had paralyze of silence was a bitch at times, you had to basically read the battle log to know if someone had it or not.
notworksafe
Member
The FFXI and WoW communities are more alike then they know.
Both are constantly complaining about "fuckin' casuals".
Both are constantly complaining about "fuckin' casuals".
InfiniteNine
Rolling Girl
I guess I should be glad my only experience with MMO's is soloing RO for a couple of months? :lol
notworksafe
Member
Not at all. MMOs are a lot like Xbox Live or any online server. Sometimes the random encounters can be rough, but if you find a good group of friends you'll always have a good time. Just ignore the rabble of the official forums. :lolInfiniteNine said:
Freyjadour
Member
Mentioning WoW is like some sort of catalyst for making ridiculous, far-fetched, and awfully biased statements. I joked with a friend who I've been playing MMOs with for years, while we were beta testing Aion, that we should just start making topics on Aionsource with the title "WoW" and no text and watch the site meltdown.
*Shakes cane* Back in my day I couldn't find a Scholomance group without making a friend or two with really nice and worthwhile people!
notworksafe said:
*Shakes cane* Back in my day I couldn't find a Scholomance group without making a friend or two with really nice and worthwhile people!
Khrno said:
Are you being sarcastic with me or just obnoxious?
I don't like quest journals that hold your hand, because they take the fun out of exploring and because they're a crutch for incompetent or lazy developers that can't be bothered to make their quests intuitive without spelling out the solution for you, but FFXI's quest design was often piss-poor and that isn't debatable. If an NPC in Bastok tells you they've lost their earrings and the solution is to kill a certain type of bat in Garlaige Citadel dozens of times until it finally drops them, how the fuck is someone going to figure that out unless they read a FAQ?
InfiniteNine
Rolling Girl
Well I guess that's true. Had someone I never talked to, but we pretty much had a silent agreement that we'd help each other out. It was strange, but I guess that kept me playing till I couldn't pay the fees for it anymore. :lolnotworksafe said:
Freyjadour
Member
Azrael said:
TRIAL AND ERROR
Marrshu said:
How can you possibly know it's the best possible play scheme? Personally I find FFXI's keyboard only control to be far more comfortable then the typical kb/m control scheme in MMO's, especially over long periods of time.
And like I said in my other post, and you seemed to ignore. I do think SE should have added the common kb/m controls as an option, but I don't think there is any reason to ever completely settle with one control scheme.
Azrael said:
I think the idea was that people would treat it like a normal RPG where you get a clue and don't feel like you have to actively search shit out, that eventually you will come across the item and put the pieces together.
I'm not saying this is a perfect plan, but I don't really like the opposite either, where you are given a task to perform, and it's made perfectly obvious what you will be killing etc... Having some guy randomly asking you to kill 25 of this, 15 of that, and 10 of something else, is really strange. It just doesn't make much sense.