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[Clear]

SE really needs to stop being so damn vague and say exactly what this is.

Linky

I think this translation is as good as it gets, Elmer is held in very high regard across all FFXI communities (unbelievably rare) so I'm very confident of its accuracy.

It's certainly a more illuminating picture of what's actually going on than anything else I've come across. I really hope a lot of the angry people read it.

 

[Azrael]

It is 8 hours playing the job you are playing at the moment.

http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/97835-Komoto-s-Official-Explanation-of-Surplus

Blue Gartr's translator agrees that surplus kicks in based on skill points earned in a week, not hours played in a week. The eight-hour number is a hypothetical assuming the player is accumulating skill points at a fixed rate. Surplus will kick in faster or slower depending on how fast the player gets skill points. Which is why in beta phase 3, everyone was hitting surplus at rank 14 regardless of how long it took them to do it.

 

[Kintaro]

However its translated, however its done, it is still the worst idea possible and if it is in Open Beta at all, it will destroy this game dead. There should be no sugar coating it. Unless you are a sucker, you should not support this one bit.

 

[Khrno]

The last time I went back to XI was last year, and even then it was still difficult to get an EXP party. I was specifically only leveling WHM/RDM to reduce party finding time, and it could still be over an hour.

I couldn't exactly tell you about 2009, but in 2008 it was very hard to level up low level jobs because of the lack of people playing at such levels.

I tried to get most of my jobs to 37 by them and wanted to take a couple all the way to 75 but it was impossible to do it at the pace I was expecting, I basically had to solo (thanks to my taru NPC who would heal me and haste me right at the end of the fight, the little bitch), and sometimes dualboxing a PL.

I took NIN from 50 to around 65 mostly doing campaigns with the odd party here and there. I actually enjoyed soloing and doing campaings, but still it wasn't as fast as with a good party, although it was better than some shitty ones I got in.

Wow, 15 hours is probably longer then the entire time I spent with the game myself

Around 2005-2006, I think I averaged between 18 and 20 hours a day, with around 12 hours spent on HNM camps, 4 doing events and the rest crafting or leveling up. I took a break by the end of 2006 and when I went back a few months later in 2007, after getting a job and stuff, I couldn't keep up anymore with such a schedule obviously, not even during my days off since I was just tired from work and wanted to actually take a rest or go out and had to go on a more casual schedule even against my own desire for loot, which eventually made me quit.

So a normal MMO player would have 3 rank 10 jobs while the casual will have only one rank 10 job. They can still enjoy the game with the 3 rank 10 players because they atleast have one job at their rank. I think this is stupid.

It's not like there's not going to be more casual players around so there will always be people to party up at all levels, but forcing people to go at certain pace due to the system it is stupid.

However its translated, however its done, it is still the worst idea possible and if it is in Open Beta at all, it will destroy this game dead. There should be no sugar coating it. Unless you are a sucker, you should not support this one bit.

I think it is actually good that this system will be in place during the OB, so everyone will have the chance to complain, or simply rage at SE with solid basis and Tanaka won't have any chance to say that it's just based on assumptions or speculation.

 

[Londa]

http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/97835-Komoto-s-Official-Explanation-of-Surplus

Blue Gartr's translator agrees that surplus kicks in based on skill points earned in a week, not hours played in a week. The eight-hour number is a hypothetical assuming the player is accumulating skill points at a fixed rate. Surplus will kick in faster or slower depending on how fast the player gets skill points. Which is why in beta phase 3, everyone was hitting surplus at rank 14 regardless of how long it took them to do it.

Still, don't you think hitting surplus after rank 14 is a little too restrictive? I mean, in two days I can hit rank 14. So I have to wait 5 more days in a week just to get normal exp again because casuals don't want me to get more rank levels than them. What I wanna know is why does it matter what the person next to me has? The game is still going to be there and they can get to where I'm at if they put in a little more time.

In FFXI, when I started, JP was way ahead of the NA. Did the NA cry and ask SE to restrict any more progress to all JP just to let the NA get to where they are?

The whole thing is dumb because people that start the first week will be higher than people starting the second week. People will be higher rank than others. So this system should not even be in place anyways. I like to get what I paid for in a game.

 

[Khrno]

In FFXI when I started, JP was way ahead of the NA. Did the NA cry and ask SE to restrict any more progress to all JP just to let the NA get to where they are?

I do remember in 2004 lots of people crying because all the japanese players had reach cap already, were rich high level crafters or had many items from Sky, Dynamis and kings.

But the global launch would sort that out, and even there's the level caps that will be in place for several months, so there won't be any disadvantages. At least SE hasn't blamed the PS3

Spoiler

yet

for this.

 

[Londa]

I do remember in 2004 lots of people crying because all the japanese players had reach cap already, were rich high level crafters or had many items from Sky, Dynamis and kings.

But the global launch would sort that out, and even there's the level caps that will be in place for several months, so there won't be any disadvantages. At least SE hasn't blamed the PS3

Spoiler

yet

for this.

Yeah they cried, but did NA demand to be the same levels as JP. Not what I saw. But I was a noob so maybe I was too worried with not dying from the goblin's and pugs.

My point was, if they didn't do this in FFXI, why are they caring about even playing field for everybody now? There will always be people higher rank than others. So the system is flawed and shouldn't be there in the first place.

 

[Kintaro]

I think it is actually good that this system will be in place during the OB, so everyone will have the chance to complain, or simply rage at SE with solid basis and Tanaka won't have any chance to say that it's just based on assumptions or speculation.

Having this system in open beta will cripple this game and set it back big time. So much so that they may never recover after Cataclysm launches, The Old Republic and Guild Wars 2 ramp up.

MMO gamers have long, long memories of stupid shit. This has already stained the game. This has the potential to really, really hurt them.

 

[twofold]

It's becoming more and more obvious that the fatigue system is in place to buy SE time to produce high level content because there's probably little to none already completed. I'd be really, really surprised if they removed the fatigue system in Open Beta.

If anything, they'll probably remove it when the PS3 version releases once they've fleshed out the available content and tell everyone "see - we're listening to our fans!" as the reason why in hopes of getting a little community good will.

I think it's also poor form by SE to say that this system is in place to help casuals keep up with the more hardcore players. How dumb do they think we are?

 

[Khrno]

MMO gamers have long, long memories of stupid shit. This has already stained the game. This has the potential to really, really hurt them.

But after both Tanaka and Komoto replies yesterday, it's obvious they are in defensive mode, so they won't just get rid of the system straight away, there needs to be a huge backlash on them during the OB for them to act, because even after the huge reaction on the internet these past days, they won't do something until they notice the wound but at least they will have the chance to do something about it before launch.

The game is not going to be as successful anymore as it seemed to be say 3 months ago, but seems like this is not proof enough for them at the moment. I hope for the health of the game that they will act on time an at least be able to get a decent amount of players to stay, or better yet, just to get the game at launch.

 

[demosthenes]

It's becoming more and more obvious that the fatigue system is in place to buy SE time to produce high level content because there's probably little to none already completed. I'd be really, really surprised if they removed the fatigue system in Open Beta.

If anything, they'll probably remove it when the PS3 version releases once they've fleshed out the available content and tell everyone "see - we're listening to our fans!" as the reason why in hopes of getting a little community good will.

I think it's also poor form by SE to say that this system is in place to help casuals keep up with the more hardcore players. How dumb do they think we are?

I could see that. Force people into paying for 2-3 months so they can get to max level to really see the high end content before deciding if they want to leave or not?

BTW, I have no idea if 2-3 months would be enough w/ the cap in there, just suggesting.

With that said though, I still think this is a stupid idea. I don't have time to play 4-10 hours a day like I once did but that doesn't mean I want to limit someone else.

 

[Kandinsky]

From beta site.

Once again, we would like to thank you all for your participation and support during the Closed Beta. We will continue to take your valuable feedback into consideration as we develop the game during Open Beta and even beyond the official release.

Now I would like to take a moment to respond to the many questions and opinions regarding the manner in and rates at which experience and skill points are obtained in Beta 3.

Firstly, the concept for FINAL FANTASY XIV was to design a system of character progression that offers meaningful advancement for those with limited time to dedicate to playing. We did not want to create a game that forced people to play for hours on end to see their efforts rewarded. To that end, in addition to the Guardian's Aspect and guildleve systems, we introduced a means of apportioning swifter advancement to shorter periods of play.

In order to achieve this balance, we calculated a value for the amount of skill or experience points that could be earned in a one-hour period. This theoretical value represents an hour spent engaged solely in combat, levequests, or any other activities that earn skill or experience points, and sets a threshold delimiting how many of these points can be earned in a period of play.

Based on this, we have implemented a “threshold value” concept. These thresholds are regulated by a one-week timer that begins counting down the instant you earn skill/experience points. After a week has passed, the thresholds will reset, and the moment skill/experience points are earned again, the timer begins counting down anew.

For the first eight thresholds during this week-long period, players will receive skill/experience points at the maximum rate possible. The actual amount of time spent reaching these thresholds is not significant. That is to say, a player who exceeds eight hours of gameplay will still be rewarded the maximum amount of skill/experience points, so long as the total amount earned is below the eighth threshold value. For the subsequent seven thresholds, players will earn skill/experience points at a gradually decreasing rate, eventually reaching a rate of zero.

It is worth noting, however, that the reduced rate will also gradually recover while players are engaged in activities that do not yield skill/experience points. In this manner, it is possible for the threshold value to reset completely, even before the completion of the one-week timer.

Any skill points earned in excess of the threshold maximum—that is, at a rate of zero—will be stored as "bonus skill points." These are specific to each class, so players limited to earning bonus skill points still have the freedom to change classes and begin earning skill points again at the maximum rate, allowing their reduced skill rates to recover in the meantime.

The experience point threshold, however, is unrelated to class, and switching classes will have no effect on the decreasing rate of earnable experience.

This is how the progression system currently works.

This system was not introduced in Beta 3, but has been in place since the beginning of beta testing. There are several reasons why many people believe that these features were only recently implemented:

- Leading into Beta 3, operation hours were extended, making it possible to play more often during the span of a week.
- To encourage players to form guidleve parties in Beta 3, skill and experience point rewards for guildleves were significantly increased.
- The process that reduced the amount of skill/experience points awarded for weak enemies attacking in groups was unintentionally removed at the start of Beta 3. (This issue has been addressed.)

That last reason in particular was the biggest cause for players running up against the threshold penalty, with characters earning far more skill/experience points than we anticipated. We also faced an issue where we were simultaneously unable to adjust the amount earned for guildleves as well as the effects of crossing each threshold.

We sincerely apologize for the lack of explanation and our failure to make the necessary adjustments in the game.

The threshold values are being reexamined, and we plan to further adjust the different rates of earnable points based on feedback from our testers. One of the top issues we are looking at right now is fixing the excessively rapid drop after crossing the eighth threshold. We also plan to improve experience point reduction rates, even more so than for skill points, considering the threshold is unaffected when changing class.

At the very least, we can promise that players won't be running into the threshold penalty in the same short time span as they did in the beginning of Beta 3.

We would like to take this opportunity to also explain the following issues.

The diminishing results experienced during gathering are a function related to that class alone, and have no connection to this progression system. We are in the process of adjusting this system, and plan to make changes based on tester feedback.

We are currently in the process of considering the means in which bonus skill points can be used. There have been suggestions for various types of incentives, but as encouraging people to play with that in mind defeats the purpose of this threshold system, we will be examining this issue very carefully.

These are not the only adjustments we have planned for Open Beta. As mentioned previously, we are looking into increasing the amount of skill points earned when fighting in a party, and we look forward to seeing your input on these changes.

Last of all, I would like to apologize for the delay in releasing a developer's comment due to my recent attendance to Gamescom. The article based on my interview during that trip, coupled with conjecture, outdated information, and some misunderstandings on overseas websites, only added to the confusion. In the future, I hope to avoid similar problems by responding directly through official developer's comments as often as possible. Thank you for your understanding.

See you in the Open Beta Testing!

FINAL FANTASY XIV Director
Nobuaki Komoto

 

[Kintaro]

In summary: "We came up with a made up number to limit and punish you, the player. Seems you caught on. We'll be adjust that made up number so that you don't catch on quite a quickly next time. We're stubborn idiots and this will be going into the game, like it or not. Pre-order now please!"

 

[demosthenes]

Good to actually hear form SE but I'm still confused by this:

The experience point threshold, however, is unrelated to class, and switching classes will have no effect on the decreasing rate of earnable experience.

This game is supposed to launch in 3.5 weeks, WOW.

 

[Shouta]

Good to actually hear form SE but I'm still confused by this:



This game is supposed to launch in 3.5 weeks, WOW.

Means Phys level cap per week for the player I guess or really fucking slow leveling up.

Or basically "We're goddamn crazy and spent too much money on booze and hookers!"

 

[archnemesis]

Is there a complete changelist letting us know what fixes or changes have been made during the last beta phase? I'm specifically curious about mouse/keyboard controls and synchronized animations.

 

[Kandinsky]

They should just eat their pride, go ahead and delay this pos:lol

 

[Salaadin]

Did the post on the JP site yesterday mention how the threshold can recover if you arent gaining XP? I dont know, Im still reluctant but I do spend a large amount of time in MMOs doing stuff that wont earn me a dime of XP. This might not affect me too much.

 

[Khrno]

A delay to match 2011, to release together with the PS3 version and just before the end of the FY wouldn't hurt them.

Most people right would actually admire SE and give them another chance after all the bullshit from these last 2 months. Just make an OB until then, throw a level 30 cap and just keep balancing the system and fixing all the problems.

Did the post on the JP site yesterday mention how the threshold can recover if you arent gaining XP?

Yeah, but this is what was translated:

"You can even recover back to the full 100% rate of point acquisition, so you do not always have to wait the full week for the limitations to go away."


And the threshold term wasn't really in there, the measure used in the translation was hours.

 

[Jinko]

These are not the only adjustments we have planned for Open Beta. As mentioned previously, we are looking into increasing the amount of skill points earned when fighting in a party, and we look forward to seeing your input on these changes.

So in theory you are being punished more for partying as any increase in skill points means you hit the threshold faster, my god SE think before you come up with this shit.

I'm not convinced this is about end game tbh, its mostly likely their way of sqweezing as much money out of us over the longest peroid whilst restricting our progression, it's like a money making vicous circle, except we aren't stupid enough to fall for it.

 

[Kandinsky]

I just hope the skill gain randomness thats been in the game since alpha is no longer present in the OB, getting 15-250 class xp from a green dodo is not fun at all.

 

[luffeN]

TGS trailer with cgi and gameplay scenes incoming in about 17 hours

 

[Mister Zimbu]

So in theory you are being punished more for partying as any increase in skill points means you hit the threshold faster, my god SE think before you come up with this shit.

I'm not convinced this is about end game tbh, its mostly likely their way of sqweezing as much money out of us over the longest peroid whilst restricting our progression, it's like a money making vicous circle, except we aren't stupid enough to fall for it.

I'd like to be optimistic on that first point - glad they're at least acknowledging that party play MIGHT be broken instead of being completely stubborn about it like they were for the past 2 months.

As negative as I am about the game, I'm still gonna let open beta decide things for me.

As for the "$8 for fatigue?" question... probably not for $8. $5 or $6 I would probably bite on though.

TGS trailer with cgi and gameplay scenes incoming in about 17 hours

In other words, they're announcing more bad news in 16 hours :lol

 

[Khrno]

But it's like if they didn't know by FFXI, that the players will be ok doing their insane endgame events over and over again for the span of several years. Trying to squish money just to keep us longer leveling up makes no sense for just that reason. It must be to keep us away from reaching caps too quick. They probably think that way they'll have enough time to get everything done on further updates, which I know it doesn't make sense either.

I don't want to think about it or gonna give me a headache trying to find any meaningful reason; better wait for more CG scenes tomorrow.

 

[Salaadin]

I'd like to be optimistic on that first point - glad they're at least acknowledging that party play MIGHT be broken instead of being completely stubborn about it like they were for the past 2 months.

As negative as I am about the game, I'm still gonna let open beta decide things for me.

I agree. The acknowledgement that people are angry and the suggestion that they might alter it gives me some hope. Maybe not for launch but maybe shortly after.

Im trying to stay optimistic. Why? I dont know.

 

[Clear]

Most people right would actually admire SE and give them another chance after all the bullshit from these last 2 months. Just make an OB until then, throw a level 30 cap and just keep balancing the system and fixing all the problems.

What bullshit is this you are speaking of?

I mean, no money has changed hands and the game isn't even launched yet. The open beta hasn't even started yet!

A General Observation (not aimed at anyone specifically)

Honestly, as a professional developer a lot of the stuff I read make me want to throw my hands up in despair, why are so many mmo gamers apparently such colossal douchebags?

You give people a chance to test stuff out at no cost, and instead of constructive reasoned feedback, or at worst "not my style of game, thanks but no thanks", all you seem to get is horrible abuse like you have somehow personally affronted them.

Anger over an unreleased, unfinished game?

It just makes no sense to me at all.

 

[falastini]

You give people a chance to test stuff out at no cost, and instead of constructive reasoned feedback, or at worst "not my style of game, thanks but no thanks", all you seem to get is horrible abuse like you have somehow personally affronted them.

Anger over an unreleased, unfinished game?

It just makes no sense to me at all.

They won't accept feedback from most testers (only a chosen few have access to beta forums), and on the issues the testers have been the most vocal about they have not made any changes. While the promise of a few changes have been made, they're pretty much ignored or dismissed most of the feedback at this point and going along with their own predetermined "vision". All beta testing has been to this point is a stress test.

 

[Azrael]

However its translated, however its done, it is still the worst idea possible and if it is in Open Beta at all, it will destroy this game dead. There should be no sugar coating it. Unless you are a sucker, you should not support this one bit.

The fatigue system is bad, but I think it needs to be put into perspective. A lot of people who haven't played the beta or only played it for a couple of hours are being left with the false impression that the fatigue system is much harsher than it actually is because when Sankoko broke the story, they made it sound 100-fold worse than it actually is (eg. you can only play for an hour a day!). But in the end, SE has only themselves to blame for the confusion because of their poor communication with the community.

What I really don't like is that there were much bigger problems with the beta, like the UI design, UI lag, and lack of an auction house or even a bazaar search function, but over the past few days, a relatively small problem has been blown out of proportion and completely derailed discussion of the game.

 

[Micromegas]

It's becoming more and more obvious that the fatigue system is in place to buy SE time to produce high level content because there's probably little to none already completed.

I no longer think this is true. Having read the interview again, it seems like one of their core design choices was to tailor the game toward people who could only play for about an hour a day.

It's like they looked at their flaws in the last game, and instead of really digging deep to find some elegant and brilliant solutions to iterate upon (like a Valve or a Blizzard would), they took the very first solution that came to mind to any given flaw.

 

[demosthenes]

I no longer think this is true. Having read the interview again, it seems like one of their core design choices was to tailor the game toward people who could only play for about an hour a day.

It's like they looked at their flaws in the last game, and instead of really digging deep to find some elegant and brilliant solutions to iterate upon (like a Valve or a Blizzard would), they took the very first solution that came to mind to any given flaw.

I just fail to see that they would be so ignorant though, ugh.

 

[Micromegas]

I just fail to see that they would be so ignorant though, ugh.

I totally agree. It defies logic, the seemingly backwards design decisions they've made in this game. These games live or die on launch in NA and it's not looking good. Maybe they'll get a shot at a "relaunch" when they release the PS3 version if they can straighten some things out.

 

[Clear]

They won't accept feedback from most testers (only a chosen few have access to beta forums), and on the issues the testers have been the most vocal about they have not made any changes. While the promise of a few changes have been made, they're pretty much ignored or dismissed most of the feedback at this point and going along with their own predetermined "vision". All beta testing has been to this point is a stress test.

In all fairness you (and indeed I) have no idea of what amount of heuristic analysis is made to server-side data.

The problem with testing MMO's is that individual feedback isn't as relevant as in a normal game because the player-base isn't homogenous. Players with different jobs/combinations of skills and levels make it an extremely complex issue.

An individual player's personal wants and dislikes need to be placed in the context of the server as whole, as fixing something for one class may have an undesirable knock-on effect for others.

The simple truth is that a casual player's money is just as good as the most ardent no-lifer's, the system needs to work democratically which leaves little room for showing undue favoritism to "loyal" long-time players.

 

[Khrno]

What bullshit is this you are speaking of?

Communication with the players/testers, speed of fixes (not just acknowledgments but patches), leve timers, lack of features that people thought were going to be taken from FFXI as a base, controls, UI (and not talking about the lag) and last but not least, the interviews (the answers) which tell us nothing.

I've always been very positive with the game, and I'm still hoping that the OB will sort out many things, if not by having a newer better build, by SE using up all the feedback in an efficient and wise way, but it really seems too much to ask for.

The problem with testing MMO's is that individual feedback isn't as relevant as in a normal game because the player-base isn't homogenous. Players with different jobs/combinations of skills and levels make it an extremely complex issue.

The problem with the FFXI alpha and beta (phase 1) test was done by FFXI players. So there was a large consensus from the beginning about the many issues that should be fixed or changed.

If SE wanted some sort of democracy, they wouldn't have invited to the first tests only their old "loyal" customers, but they would have invited all sort of random people.

 

[Micromegas]

The simple truth is that a casual player's money is just as good as the most ardent no-lifer's, the system needs to work democratically which leaves little room for showing undue favoritism to "loyal" long-time players.

But, speaking as a devil's advocate, why should a player not get out of it what they put into it? Why shouldn't a player that spends more time doing something be rewarded more than somebody who doesn't?

I can understand what S/E is trying to do here, but there is almost certainly a better way to accomplish it.

 

[RuGalz]

I love their careful choice of words to explain the system. Either way, they have to realize, it is the hardcores that are keeping FFXI alive today. Even if their goal is to make FFXIV a more casual oriented game, which I do admire, they need to some how maintain the subscription to keep the game alive. Using the "threshold" system is just not going to rub paying customers the right way even if the goal is to even the playing field for hardcore and casual players. A lot of free to play games are grindy as hell so they have a chance to sell you some incentives. But from player's point of view, it's their choice how fast they want to play the game. In this case, we would be paying for the game but given no choice to the pace we want to progress. It's all psychological which, for whatever reason, SE can't figure out even after all these years with FFXI.

They might be onto something if they were re-doing FFXI engine and art asset to be like 14 and bundle two games together so you could be grinding your leves in 14 while LFG in 11. But that's not the case so I don't know wtf they were smoking. :lol

 

[Clear]

If SE wanted some sort of democracy, they wouldn't have invited to the first tests only their old "loyal" customers, but they would have invited all sort of random people.

Objectively speaking, using long time FFXI players is a good idea if there's very little in the way of tutorial mechanisms currently implemented, as their familiarity with SE's peculiar approach to mmo-design might not feel so alien as it would to somebody who isn't.

i.e. it gets them "into the game" quicker, so they can start collecting heuristic data sooner and in greater volume.

Main thing though is that the system is only likely to be "democratic" in the sense that they run their game as a benign dictatorship where the needs of the masses are paramount over the few, no matter how elite they are.

Bad choice of words on my part.

I love their careful choice of words to explain the system. Either way, they have to realize, it is the hardcores that are keeping FFXI alive today

Isn't that kind of why they would want to deliberately cater to a more casual sort of player with 14? I mean running two hardcore targetted mmo's is just going to cannibalize the existing userbase?

 

[Khrno]

Main thing though is that the system is only likely to be "democratic" in the sense that they run their game as a benign dictatorship where the needs of the masses are paramount over the few, no matter how elite they are.

Wow, I think we are going borderline there.

The way the Leves and the Fatigue system works seems more like a communist system actually, everyone gets the basic needs at the same amount.

 

[Jinko]

Isn't that kind of why they would want to deliberately cater to a more casual sort of player with 14? I mean running two hardcore targetted mmo's is just going to cannibalize the existing userbase?

And whats the problem with this, better to cannibalize them, than they leave and play something else.

SE have stated many times that their purpose of this game has been FF11 users >> Final Fantasy Players >> New MMO players.

I don't see there being much growth in the average FF player, most won't even entertain the idea of paying to play.

 

[Zalasta]

Honestly, we can argue and speculate about the fatigue system ad nauseum, but until we see the actual rate in retail, it's all just assumption. The fact is your fatigue is recovering constantly as long as you're not engaged in activities that will net you XP/SP, so unless all you do during your play time is leveling, you aren't constantly at risk of hitting surplus. I'm disappointed that party play seem to take the biggest hit in light of this, and I'm not saying I fully support this, but it's not all doom and gloom like a lot of the naysayers are claiming.

If this is a deal breaker for you, then fine, but I think the flaming is past the point of being constructive criticism.

 

[RuGalz]

Isn't that kind of why they would want to deliberately cater to a more casual sort of player with 14? I mean running two hardcore targetted mmo's is just going to cannibalize the existing userbase?

I've always suspected that is one of the main reasons. It certainly is a very difficult problem to solve. I certainly don't fault their intention; in fact, I welcome it because I don't have as much time nowadays as 8 years ago. But there are just many things wrong with the way they are approaching the problem and poor communication with community just makes everything exploded in their faces.

 

[Khrno]

but I think the flaming is past the point of being constructive criticism.

90% of GAF have no idea what that is.

 

[Clear]

And whats the problem with this, better to cannibalize them, than they leave and play something else.

SE have stated many times that their purpose of this game has been FF11 users >> Final Fantasy Players >> New MMO players.

I don't see there being much growth in the average FF player, most won't even entertain the idea of paying to play.

Well it's just not a very smart business model, especially when FFXI still has expansions scheduled.

Speaking personally, the cap-raises and changes have got me more motivated to play FFXI than I have in years, and assuming they maintain their current rate the 99 cap wont be reached until mid-late 2011.

 

[Londa]

Why would they think anyone, even casual would want to do everything in one hour?

It's not like we are talking about a facebook app here. We are talking about a MMO, that is made by SE. Who in their right mind would want to do something in a MMO in just one hour unless they was trying to buy a piece of gear or walk around talking to friends. This was the stupidest idea yet.

No one should have their exp estimated to just 1 hour a day and then told to play within those limits. If they exceed them, they should walk around not fighting, or pick up another class. Holidays, days off, sick days, vacation, what about those times? Why should I only be able to play 8 hours a week on those times? I will be pointing this out to them on the beta site, because I honestly don't think they thought about when others have free time that exceeds more than a hour a day.

 

[Kyoufu]

Thread title needs a change to reflect upon the epic fail that is the fatigue system ;(

 

[notworksafe]

Why would they think anyone, even casual would want to do everything in one hour?

It's not like we are talking about a facebook app here. We are talking about a MMO, that is made by SE. Who in their right mind would want to do something in a MMO in just one hour unless they was trying to buy a piece of gear or walk around talking to friends. This was the stupidest idea yet.

No one should have their exp estimated to just 1 hour a day and then told to play within those limits. If they exceed them, they should walk around not fighting, or pick up another class. Holidays, days off, sick days, vacation, what about those times? Why should I only be able to play 8 hours a week on those times? I will be pointing this out to them on the beta site, because I honestly don't think they thought about when others have free time that exceeds more than a hour a day.

Yeah I don't get the idea behind what Square is doing. Every explanation they give (help casuals, make the game like the the real world) makes no sense to me. But then again this is the same company that both acknowledged that 90% of testers wanted hardware mouse cursor and said that they had no plan to implement one.

Honestly, we can argue and speculate about the fatigue system ad nauseum, but until we see the actual rate in retail, it's all just assumption. The fact is your fatigue is recovering constantly as long as you're not engaged in activities that will net you XP/SP, so unless all you do during your play time is leveling, you aren't constantly at risk of hitting surplus. I'm disappointed that party play seem to take the biggest hit in light of this, and I'm not saying I fully support this, but it's not all doom and gloom like a lot of the naysayers are claiming.

If this is a deal breaker for you, then fine, but I think the flaming is past the point of being constructive criticism.

The idea that there is a cap on a game that people pay monthly for without a proper reason or need to add an XP cap is just stupid. Adding a cap doesn't make the game better, it just delays people from reaching the cap until Square can finish the game. They already said there won't be an endgame at launch, so this is just an artificial barrier they are setting up (under the guise of helping people...what?!) so that they can launch their endgame before people reach level cap and pat themselves on the back for making a challenging leveling game when really they are just cheating people.

 

[twofold]

As I said in an earlier post, the only reason that makes sense is that they're deliberately holding back players because of a lack of high level content.

I really hope I'm wrong for the sake of the people who are planning to play the game, but honestly, FFVIX is looking like the second coming of Vanguard.

 

[Kagari]

Just a heads up guys, S-E sent word that the TGS trailer will be out tomorrow.

 

[Haint]

But it's like if they didn't know by FFXI, that the players will be ok doing their insane endgame events over and over again for the span of several years. Trying to squish money just to keep us longer leveling up makes no sense for just that reason. It must be to keep us away from reaching caps too quick. They probably think that way they'll have enough time to get everything done on further updates, which I know it doesn't make sense either.

I don't want to think about it or gonna give me a headache trying to find any meaningful reason; better wait for more CG scenes tomorrow.

Clearly every aspect of FFXI was designed to milk money for as long as possible. I never met a single person in game that wasn't aware of the running joke, it was like some kind of experiment SE was publishing scientific papers on--so blatant. Obviously they're still trying to do a lot of that in XIV what with the antiquated piece-wise crafting, search-less bazaars, anima system, fatigue system, leve timer etc... All were clearly intended to be time sinks or limiters and I believe they had every intention of carrying every single one of them as-is into retail. Perhaps bitching will change some of that.

Still, I think there may be some truth to this "casualization" mantra/excuse of theirs. It could very well be a knee-jerk reaction to remedy the very public criticisms about FFXI (e.g. Pandemonium Warden 18 hour battle that made new stories on every website), but they are applying it to an extreme on the wrong aspects of the game. Aside from a total lack of viable soloing, leveling was mostly fine in XI, it was a legitimate accomplishment having high level jobs. The endgame activities were what was so broken and what most people complained about. It would seem the developers are unable to make a distinction between what worked and what didn't.

 

[notworksafe]

I just don't see how reducing the XP of a hardcore to 0% helps casuals. I think SQE just has to see that some people will always poopsock MMOs and that limiting them doesn't help people who don't play as much. Giving bonuses while logged off however...that's a way to help people.

 

[Cmagus]

Whats the grind like in this game? because last one the grind was pretty tough and if they want to cap stuff for casuals well they didn't really stick around too long in the last game.If they must use the fatigue system at least make it more than 8 hours thats pointless.