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[master15]

So after much delay, the past few days I’ve been finishing off watching the Monster series. A friend of mine recommended it to me middle of last year and I made it to the mid-point before getting somewhat distracted and leaving it unfinished. Not so anymore, after ploughing through the remaining 24 odd episodes (What can I say, it’s one of those series which compels you to keep going) I finally made it to the end today and although a little bit sad it’s all over can’t help but enthuse about the series as a whole.

I didn't have much faith given my past experience with anime series’ but this happily surpassed any expectations I had. I must confess it was rather welcoming watching an anime piece which didn’t contain filler episodes, cookie-cutter comic relief characters and other conventions which seem to plague the format. Given its length it is rather a slow burner that slowly builds up the pace and intrigue as Temma investigation grows more and more complex.

I was impressed how the show didn’t patronize the audience and story arcs and elements which were picked up on, often at times wouldn’t be further expanded upon until many shows down the road. Also it was a fairly rich universe with many side-characters given detailed back stories some even having a few dedicated episodes themselves (Who could forget characters like Grimmer and Martin?).

Johan was particular highlight although I find myself thinking in retrospect, how little we actually learned about him in the end, especially his true plans and motivations. Not forgetting Lunge who was a favourite character of mine through the whole show. I mean they sort of nailed a lot of things from the setting, outstanding score but also those little things. I absolutely loved the recreations of Franz Bonapartonaparta children stories such as The monster without a name which was fantastic.

I do have a few nagging questions;

-I never quite understand why Johan was dressed as

Spoiler

as a girl even during his childhood. Was this done by his Mother and if so why?

-I understand Klaus Poppe was conducting a

Spoiler

eugenics experiment, but what was his end goal with this?

-Also I'm a little hazy why Johan killed

Spoiler

all the family's that he stayed with. Was this simply to wipe his past and was he responsible for killing his adopted parents the night he was shot by Nina?

I'm sure there's a lot more I'm missing. I heard Naoki Urasawa released 'Another Monster' after this clarifying some of the events from the series, can anyone confirm if that's wroth tracking down? Also, 20th Century Boys, is it a mistake if I start with the film?

 

[akachan ningen]

I think you're wrong about filler eps. It had plenty of them(even if the filler did come from the manga). I would have stuck with it if they wrapped up the whole series in 52 eps at the most. It really started getting boring around 30-40. I really liked it early on, it's a shame.

 

[MetatronM]

Also, 20th Century Boys, is it a mistake if I start with the film?

I actually just starting reading 20th Century Boys. They finally decided to start releasing it here in the US (I think vol. 2 is supposed to come out in a week or so). Pretty intiguing so far, though definitely a slow build.

Considering it's even longer than Monster, though, I have my doubts that the two movies could possibly have been an adequate adaptation. That said, I haven't seen the movies, so I really can't say.

It really started getting boring around 30-40. I really liked it early on, it's a shame.

Really? The 30s were where the show got REALLY exciting, I thought. That was probably the single most intense arc in the series.

That said, I can understand some of your point, though the little aside stories were some of the things I loved most about Monster (and none of them were "filler," seeing as they all contributed something very meaningful, either in the form of actual plot information or in the form of valuable character development...and frequently both). I couldn't really imagine it without things like the film noir style Martin storyline or the little single episode plots about incidental (or even all but irrelevant) characters. Those were often some of the most charming moments in the series.

 

[SCULLIBUNDO]

Loved the Adventures of Dr. Tenma.

 

[Dascu]

For 20th Century Boys: Read the manga. I hope there's an anime adaptation soon.

 

[akachan ningen]

Really? The 30s were where the show got REALLY exciting, I thought. That was probably the single most intense arc in the series.

That said, I can understand some of your point, though the little aside stories were some of the things I loved most about Monster (and none of them were "filler," seeing as they all contributed something very meaningful, either in the form of actual plot information or in the form of valuable character development...and frequently both). I couldn't really imagine it without things like the film noir style Martin storyline or the little single episode plots about incidental (or even all but irrelevant) characters. Those were often some of the most charming moments in the series.

I was just guessing, I don't even know where I stopped watching, but it may have been in the late 40s. Anyway, a lot of them were filler, in that they had these self-contained that maybe gave you a little tidbit of info on johan or someone else at the end, something that could have been given through regular dialogue or as part of a normal episode. Good storytelling is knowing what to cut out, not throwing every possible scrap of info at you. Again, that really never happened in the early eps. I wish I could remember some specific examples but they were so forgettable I can't think of a single one.

 

[thetrin]

My advice is to read the manga of 20th Century Boys before you explore the film. The manga is brilliant.

I think you're wrong about filler eps. It had plenty of them(even if the filler did come from the manga). I would have stuck with it if they wrapped up the whole series in 52 eps at the most. It really started getting boring around 30-40. I really liked it early on, it's a shame.

I felt the same way. Monster got really really slow and boring in the middle. 20th Century Boys on the other hand was brilliant from start to finish.

OP, please also check out Pluto. It is Urasawa Naoki's re-envisioning of Astroboy.

 

[MetatronM]

OP, please also check out Pluto. It is Urasawa Naoki's re-envisioning of Astroboy.

Yes, this. I've read the first two volumes of Pluto so far, and it's ridulously awesome.

 

[master15]

I think you're wrong about filler eps. It had plenty of them(even if the filler did come from the manga).

I tend to disagree, the only episode one that comes instantly to mind was when Temma and Dieter hitch a ride with old couple in the country side. Even then there was a touch of character development but largely unrelated to the core story. However the series is guilty of ‘replaying’ key scenes over and over again almost to the point of ad-nauseam. This got particularly problematic near the end, especially as I was watching episodes back to back, with no need to jog previous scenes before.

It is not perfect by any stretch of the imagination, I really hated how everyone from low-life crooks, to little kids would refer to Kenzou as doctor and some of the scripting, when others would recite quotes from other characters got ugly. Still it was compelling stuff helped by such an appropriate soundtrack

I couldn't really imagine it without things like the film noir style Martin storyline or the little single episode plots about incidental (or even all but irrelevant) characters. Those were often some of the most charming moments in the series.

Yeah I loved most of the little diversions, Martins storyline arc being especially good. Quick question, I am not sure if you recall but in the end what was the purpose of

Spoiler

reading sessions held at the red rose mansion? Was it another measure in brainwashing these kids? And was Johan really training an apprentice or was that simply another lie?

 

[speedpop]

You should've read the manga!

 

[ElectricThunder]

One of the best anime series of all time. How I wanted to see Steiner though...seriously...just give me a fictional series within anime spinoff like with Kujibiki Unbalance within Genshiken and all will be well. Imagine the Vs topics...

One of the best damn characters I've ever seen amid a great cast.

 

[Mumei]

-I never quite understand why Johan was dressed as

Spoiler

as a girl even during his childhood. Was this done by his Mother and if so why?

-I understand Klaus Poppe was conducting a

Spoiler

eugenics experiment, but what was his end goal with this?

-Also I'm a little hazy why Johan killed

Spoiler

all the family's that he stayed with. Was this simply to wipe his past and was he responsible for killing his adopted parents the night he was shot by Nina?

Spoiler

- Johan's mother was trying to hide from Poppe; she was pretending to have one child by only going out with one at a time and dressing them both as girls.
- I think it was a bit vague, though I remember it having something to do with trying to literally breed leadership qualities.
- The four year-ish period where he killed his family members, basically during the time he was running the underground bank and after he found his final family, was done mostly to hide his past, yes.[/spoilers]

However the series is guilty of ‘replaying’ key scenes over and over again almost to the point of ad-nauseam.

This is the real problem with the Monster anime, not filler episodes. When the manga would spend, say, three panels every so often reminding you of a scene, it was fine - the anime, however, did not necessarily need to do it quite so often as it did.

As for filler episodes, not every episode Monster did was necessary, but that does not make them "filler episodes." The show took an almost novelistic approach; it showed little diversions, short almost vignette-like stories, used a lot of allegory (nearly every single one of Poppe's stories), etc.

So when it showed Tenma going to a new town on his search for Johan, could it have skipped, say, episode 13? Yeah, sure. We learned nothing about Johan and very little about Tenma that we hadn't known previously. At most, we saw that

Spoiler

Dieter and Tenma seemed to be getting along quite well (don't ask me why this is spoiled)

. But even the tangential arcs that had almost no information were emotional, or little distillations of themes of the entire show.

I could maybe see it being cut down to 60 episodes, myself; people who think it could get down to 52 are probably missing a lot of the story. As it is, Monster doesn't give you nearly all the pieces; it expects you to infer information based on your interpretation of the facts as you know them in some cases.

Anyway, I just got up and now I'm rambling so I'm going to stop myself. <_<

 

[wackojackosnose]

It really started getting boring around 30-40. I really liked it early on, it's a shame.

Stupidly, I stuck with this series after that point hoping it would get better. It did not.

What a waste of ~22 mins x 74 episodes = 1628 minutes I will never get back. :/

 

[7Th]

Pluto is much better than both 20th Century Boys and Monster, you should check that out.

 

[Muddimar]

Yea...This is one anime, among many, which i've started and haven't finished. Never could get into "FLCL", so I stopped watching that. Then moved on to "Monster" for a bit, then finally drifted to "Gantz". After some of the posts, I feel like I shouldn't go back and finish "Monster"....I hate filler episodes.

 

[akachan ningen]

Yea...This is one anime, among many, which i've started and haven't finished. Never could get into "FLCL", so I stopped watching that. Then moved on to "Monster" for a bit, then finally drifted to "Gantz". After some of the posts, I feel like I shouldn't go back and finish "Monster"....I hate filler episodes.

0_0 flcl is only six episodes. And it's awesome. If you like gantz, check out the manga because it's way better.

 

[Mumei]

augh

filler episodes nonsense again

Episodes 9, 13, 18, 20, 21. Those are the "filler" episodes in Monster, and most of them do have a point

Spoiler

(e.g. episode 9 and the gun training, 18 what Nina was doing for 6 months and why she's acting so different, 20 parallels some of Tenma's problems, 21 introduces an important character and resolves one of the storylines, etc.)

I could understanding "boring," or "I didn't like them," but "filler" is just nonsense. Is it because they are episodes that don't have Tenma that people call them "filler episodes"?

 

[master15]

Spoiler

Johan's mother was trying to hide from Poppe; she was pretending to have one child by only going out with one at a time and dressing them both as girl

Huh? I am not sure I follow, the Mother was taken to facility where she

Spoiler

gave birth, I can only assume Capek or Poppe

were the ones who let her leave eventually, so I am not sure how she could possibly hide from them, or am I missing something here?

 

[Mumei]

Huh? I am not sure I follow, the Mother was taken to facility where she

Spoiler

gave birth, I can only assume Capek or Poppe

were the ones who let her leave eventually, so I am not sure how she could possibly hide from them, or am I missing something here?

Spoiler

Except she was on the run at that point. That's why the man at the Three Frogs that Tenma spoke to had no idea that Anna had twins; she had always gone out with one at a time, and dressed them both as girls. The timeline that we know of was "Eugenics program --> capture Anna --> she gives birth to the twins --> the twins are read those short stories --> Anna escapes (not shown) --> Capek / Poppe find her again hiding at The Three Frogs and take one of the twins (Nina) to the Mansion --> Poppe kills everyone --> Anna abandons Johan and Nina --> they start wandering, make their way to the East German - Czech border --> Wolfe finds Johan --> Johan gets sent to Kinderheim / Nina to that other orphanage, etc.).

 

[master15]

Ah okay that makes much more sense. Mumei did you read 'Another Monster' at all? I see few few uncompleted translations online, I just don't know whether it's part of the cannon?

 

[vas_a_morir]

You are a braver man than me.

I made it 13 episodes in, and said "Fuck, there are 54 more fucking episodes? Fuck this."

and I drop drop drop dr-dropped it like it's hot. m*yawn*ster.

 

[ElectricBlue187]

I hated how they kept showing the same scene over and over and I had no idea why they kept showing it until like 3 episodes later. It inspires no feeling in me other than 'this again? fuck'

the story was pretty good but I couldn't stick with it

 

[Linkhero1]

I really enjoyed this anime. I should have read the manga like a lot of people suggested. What are other manga or anime like this? I'm really into psychological thrillers like Monster and Death Note.

 

[neight]

A good anime to watch through. Probably could've compressed it more and things got a little wacky with Johan's backstory. And the ending which basically left things as they began was stupid.

 

[akachan ningen]

Is it because they are episodes that don't have Tenma that people call them "filler episodes"?

no, it's because they spend an entire 20 minutes explaining something that could have been explained in another episode in one minute.

 

[master15]

You know now that I am thinking about it I sort of got agitated how they dragged out Nina's repressed memories. Sure it lead to one of the smarter plot twists near the end, but it also felt rather forced at times, as someone said above replaying specific scenes over and over again.

It's because they spend an entire 20 minutes explaining something that could have been explained in another episode in one minute.

Care to explain or provide examples on this?

 

[Mumei]

You know now that I am thinking about it I sort of got agitated how they dragged out Nina's repressed memories. Sure it lead to one of the smarter plot twists near the end, but it also felt rather forced at times, as someone said above replaying specific scenes over and over again.

Yeah, the problem was that the transfer from manga --> anime was a bit too literal, so where the manga would spend one relatively unintrusive page reminding you (and it might have been, say, 7 weeks since the last time you'd seen it) of the scene, the anime would spend 30 - 40 seconds. After seeing that a dozen and a half times, it might begin to grate.

Also, I've read some of Another Monster. Just Google "Another Monster," sans quotes.

no, it's because they spend an entire 20 minutes explaining something that could have been explained in another episode in one minute.

You mean rather than spending an episode of him

Spoiler

training with the mercenary and having a short little story in that episode about how Tenma's Osmosis Powers of Goodness affected the relationship between the mercenary and the girl he took in

, they could have simply spent an episode saying in one line, "He did ______"?

Possible, but I think the series would be worse for it. And that doesn't make it filler.

 

[akachan ningen]

You mean rather than spending an episode of him

Spoiler

training with the mercenary and having a short little story in that episode about how Tenma's Osmosis Powers of Goodness affected the relationship between the mercenary and the girl he took in

, they could have simply spent an episode saying in one line, "He did ______"?

Possible, but I think the series would be worse for it. And that doesn't make it filler.

Not in that particular case, because I liked that training episode, but yeah. They wouldn't need to make it as simple as "he did __" but they could explain a lot of things in a much more brisk way. And a lot of details could be omitted altogether. Anytime a story is wasting your time with needless details, it's filler, whether it's intended to be filler or not.

 

[Mumei]

Not in that particular case, because I liked that training episode, but yeah. They wouldn't need to make it as simple as "he did __" but they could explain a lot of things in a much more brisk way. And a lot of details could be omitted altogether. Anytime a story is wasting your time with needless details, it's filler, whether it's intended to be filler or not.

I disagree that it was time-wasting; as I said, I can think of maybe five - seven episodes where they did that, and they all occur in the 9 - 24 range, where Tenma is essentially traveling from place to place in Germany looking for clues (so it logically feels somewhat episodic).

And I'm not sure which details are needless.

 

[pitt_norton]

Monster is flawless.

Great news that it is finally coming to DVD. I will relive the epicness.

 

[ProfessorLobo]

Monster is flawless.

Great news that it is finally coming to DVD. I will relive the epicness.

What? When?

 

[Mumei]

What? When?

It was licensed awhile back, and I know at least some casting has been done, and Funimation announced that it would be airing Monster, among other titles (notably, for me, Honey and Clover and Hunter x Hunter), on its FUNimation channel. Funimation said it would start detailing release plans for Monster "very soon."

Spoiler

DAY ONE

 

[Hellsing321]

It was licensed awhile back, and I know at least some casting has been done, and Funimation announced that it would be airing Monster, among other titles (notably, for me, Honey and Clover and Hunter x Hunter), on its FUNimation channel. Funimation said it would start detailing release plans for Monster "very soon."

Spoiler

DAY ONE

 

[Clevinger]

I have a quick question:

Is the Pluto manga finished? I don't want to start until it is.

 

[Mumei]

I have a quick question:

Is the Pluto manga finished? I don't want to start until it is.

Yes, it is finished.

I mean, it isn't finished releasing in the States, but it is done. I forget how many volumes - something around 7 or 8.

 

[Mamesj]

There were some overdramatic replays that made me feel a little like my hand was being held, but that's really not what people should focus on. Any long running show is going to have slower eps and quirks that are annoying...I'm sure anime-fan critics of the show have devoted themselves to series with much greater crimes against taste in visual media.

It's important that it's an anime series that's on par with the caliber of other high quality, long-running and non-animated TV shows. It has class (a rarity in anime) and a story line that stays pretty focused, with developments that always feel connected to the events that occur in the first few episodes. I'm just happy to know that it can be done...that not every anime has to be philosophy 101, 10 episode fight scenes, mechs, tits, and/or all of the above in one.

I can see how people might be bored with it though...I don't think the show really needs to be animated as the on-screen action is all very realistic, but I like that it is.