Birthright's got some problems. It's just too... basic compared to Conquest and Revelations. It gets kind of tedious as the battles get longer and longer in Chapters 20+.
-
Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!
Fire Emblem Awakening or Fire Emblem Fates?
- Thread starter Alastor3
- Start date
Birthright's got some problems. It's just too... basic compared to Conquest and Revelations. It gets kind of tedious as the battles get longer and longer in Chapters 20+.
Yoshi
Headmaster of Console Warrior Jugendstrafanstalt
There are several things wrong with allowing grinding:
1. It gives the opportunity to the developers to not properly balance the game
2. It makes the difficulty hard to judge. If in Fire Emblem Fates Conquest it took me several hours to complete a map, I was still 100% sure that it is possible without any grinding, because there is no grinding. In other games, even if they are balanced well, you never know this for sure and you can easily mistake a harsh difficulty with a lack of grinding.
3. It kills the team building strategical long term part of the gameplay. If you can just grind any character up, you need not spend any thought on how to distribute experience on the main maps.
So overall, grinding in Fire Emblem might be somewhat welcoming to newcomers, but it is harming the game immensely.
Also, I agree that Conquest is the best Fire Emblem I know - I'm missing 3-5 still, though.
Maintenance
Member
I never found Conquest to be hard, only annoying at times.
How is Awakening story "better"? The story stops completely at chapter
and doesn't pick up until the very end, with some of the most stupid twists in the series like
The cast is endearing and it has excellent supports but that's it.
Conquest has a satisfying and mildly emotional last arc and tries interesting things for the series despiste the clumsiness. Revelations only makes sense if you buy the DLC. Birtright is your average Fire Emblem plot.
By the way, Awakening as a strategy is average at best. However, all the systems made for a fresh and reinvigorating experience at the time that I wouldn't revisit.
11
Basilio (who?) was alive all along.
Conquest has a satisfying and mildly emotional last arc and tries interesting things for the series despiste the clumsiness. Revelations only makes sense if you buy the DLC. Birtright is your average Fire Emblem plot.
By the way, Awakening as a strategy is average at best. However, all the systems made for a fresh and reinvigorating experience at the time that I wouldn't revisit.
ShadowSoldier89
Member
I beat conquest on hard and found it incredibly easy still. I've played most Fire Emblem games. Awakening and Sacred Stones are still my favorite fire emblems. They just offer the most feeling of complete experiences. Conquest felt hollow in comparison. The garbage story definitely didn't help.
Awakening was piss easy, no doubt there, but sacred stones was balanced just fine for playing through the whole game without grinding.
SpacePirate Ridley
Member
As somebody who bought the deluxe edition of Fates with the 3 games in a card...
Awakening without a doubt.
Awakening without a doubt.
iceblade997
Member
It's disappointing to see so many commenting that Birthright is not so good in terms of story - it's one of the games I'm most looking forward to playing but as a first FE game I decided to go with Awakening and am enjoying it quite a lot. And the trailers and promo suff for Birthright seems to have a pretty interesting premise - all the nicer for what I was hoping would be a slightly more story-heavy game as I tend to play games for their story. Hopefully it'll still be a bunch of fun, regardless.
The Last Wizard
Member
Awakening, fates story is downright pitiful. Should've never been split into 3 games.
SaintMadeOfPlaster
Member
I'll toss another vote towards Awakening.
Did we play the same game? Because from chapter 15 on, Conquest was a complete mess, and nothing that I could call satisfying.
Helping Garon conquer Hoshido just so he could sit on the throne to be healed is the absolute dumbest possible plan.
WrenchNinja
Member
I think the only map I liked and remember in Conquest was the one where you have to keep Azura out of line of sight like it's a stealth mission. Most of the other maps are really annoying with their gimmicks.
Oh and I guess I liked the final map too
Hiding behind cover to avoid Takumi's arrows
Seriously. It's so bad.
I would never recommend awakening if you value map design and an actual fair difficulty curve on the highest difficulty or actual balance in general ( holy shit pair up, is wtf where they thinking). Every single map is kill X to move forward and a very basic layout. I'm thankful it reinvigorated the series but outside of dlc maps in past games it took a backwards seat.
ShadowSoldier89
Member
Birthright is basically standard acceptable story. Conquest is insultingly bad, birthright at least is fine. Its problems are that it doesn't have many interesting characters, and never surprises you. Add in that it intentionally leaves some things happening due to the existence of Revelations and its got issues.
Easily Awakening. Fates Conquest has better gameplay, but Awakening is a celebration of the series in a way that can't really be replicated. Awakening also has better characters and doesn't have the My Castle crap. Since you're coming from Sacred Stones you'll fit right in as Awakening is basically a better version of SS.
Awakening isn't the first FE game with that trope.
Awakening isn't the first FE game with that trope.
Compelling story i'll agree with, but I think Fates core characters (Xander, Leo, Takumi, etc) are better than Awakening's core characters. The non relevant characters are about the same, with some amazing highs in both casts (Sumia, Oboro, Basilio, Niles, etc) and equally bad lows.
SporeCrawler
Member
radiant dawn
GinoFelino
Member
Some Fates core characters are alright, but I think Chrom and Lucina stand out way more. That's subjective, of course.
I guess, but I don't quite feel like the FE6 one and Nils were going to the same thing as Nowi.
Tiki.
If I had to pick one, it'd be Fates. Conquest specifically, though I actually prefer most Birthright characters to most Awakening and Conquest characters in general. Awakening is too flawed a strategy experience for me and while I don't regret the huge amount of time I've put into the game, it's a difficult game for me to return to with basically all of the goals I set myself up with in the game done. Even the weaker half, Birthright, just offers more to do and generally creates more interesting scenarios to deal with.
As far as 'core cast' goes, all I really know is that Leo and Takumi are vastly more complicated and interesting characters than almost any of the adult characters in Awakening, and the same could be said for Sakura and Elise against their closest counterpart, Lissa. I don't really understand how the stigma of how Fates' characters were so much less interesting than the game that included total dead-ends like Miriel or Kellam.
As far as 'core cast' goes, all I really know is that Leo and Takumi are vastly more complicated and interesting characters than almost any of the adult characters in Awakening, and the same could be said for Sakura and Elise against their closest counterpart, Lissa. I don't really understand how the stigma of how Fates' characters were so much less interesting than the game that included total dead-ends like Miriel or Kellam.
GuitarGuruu
Member
Play awakening. I couldn't get through Fates but played awakening multiple times through.
klabautermann
Member
This sums it up. But Fates isn't /that/ much better than Awakening gameplay wise. Just a tad more streamlined than the already heavily streamlined Awakening gameplay. Also has way better characters and story than Fates. FE games are never really about great stories and strong characters, they're always just serviceable but Fates is bad in comparison to others in those aspects.
hey Azura someone attacked our father, it was a mysterious dancer dressed just like you but in black, have you seen anyone fitting that description?
No? Darn, we will keep looking out.
ShadowSoldier89
Member
I wouldnt put xander, leo, or takumi anywhere near Lucina and Chrom, and Robin was FAR better than Corrin. The side characters and conversations where were Awakening truly pulled ahead. Ive done every single support in both games and the writing was just so much better in Awakening. Cordelia, Lon'qu, Sumia, Cherche, and even tharja are far more memorable than anyone in Fates. A lot of fates characters felt so far pigeonholed into their tropes that they didnt come out the otherside with much else to them. A few characters are fun even if still one note, like Setsuna and Peri, but the only real standouts I can think of are Beruka and Selena
Who they did a good job improving her characterization from Awakening with, and in revelations if you pair her with Subaki so she has a child who looks just like her mom then the support there is excellent
I felt Fates had slightly better and more varied characters than Awakening (especially the Nohr side), but the story it tells with them is SO BAD, lol. Not that Awakening's story is good at all either, it's just bad because it's bland and meaningless rather than because of incredibly poor ideas.
Anyway Awakening is better to start with, but I'd definitely play both games, OP. They're both really fun and good as long as you focus solely on supports + the gameplay and just kind of roll your eyes through the excuse for a narrative.
...Fire Emblem games never really had good stories to begin with (and they were especially never as serious as people pretend they are) but Fates goes in a poor direction by focusing on the story too much, IMO.
This is what people said about Awakening's characters prior to Fates existing, lol.
Anyway Awakening is better to start with, but I'd definitely play both games, OP. They're both really fun and good as long as you focus solely on supports + the gameplay and just kind of roll your eyes through the excuse for a narrative.
...Fire Emblem games never really had good stories to begin with (and they were especially never as serious as people pretend they are) but Fates goes in a poor direction by focusing on the story too much, IMO.
This is what people said about Awakening's characters prior to Fates existing, lol.
ShadowSoldier89
Member
I never said that
They feel very similar, but Fates is a whole different beast than Awakening gameplaywise, they pretty much fixed or re-worked everything in the unbalanced mess that was Awakening. Pair-up was straightup broken in Awakening and fairly balanced and reworked in Fates, that alone made both games play a lot differently.
Fates was such a rip off, the side characters barely differed in conquest and birthright, and that choice in the beginning was such a slap in the face for anybody who didn't buy both of the games, you play the intro mission and decide to choose the other faction "quest"line you don't own? Welp, time to open the store and shell in another 50€.. Sure Conquest had more interesting maps than Awakening but the story was so bad in both the birthright and Conquest that there was no drive to keep playing, and honestly i preferred the simpler maps of awakening a lot more.
Not saying you did, but "it's nothing but anime tropes! Tellius' characters were so much better" was the Only Acceptable Opinion about Awakening for a long time.
I really hate this fanbase, lol...
...The games have not only entirely different casts, but entirely different maps. Was New Mystery of the Emblem a ripoff of Shadow Dragon because it literally reused the cast, assets, and entire maps?
Nah. It's a lot better than Awakening from almost every consideration. Far better designed maps and mission objectives, far better thought-through character progression system, much less totally fucked difficulty curve, etc. And 'more streamlined' isn't how I'd describe Fates versus Awakening, lmao. You can't get a more 'streamlined' FE than Awakening - that's what they intended for that game, after all.
wh
at
?????
Matt Attack
Member
I've only played Awakening and Conquest, but I think Conquest is much better. It's true that the story in Awakening is "better", but it's still really awful... Which game has better characters is a toss up, I'm a fan of both casts. The gameplay really tips the scale in favor of Conquest for me, it's definitely challenging, but the maps are really fun.
Holundrian
Unconfirmed Member
I preferred Awakening that game felt more cohesive in its execution of story and the related gameplay ideas.
Fates is are fine games maybe part of me not being as taken with them is because I burned out hard trying to finish all 3 of them.
Fates is are fine games maybe part of me not being as taken with them is because I burned out hard trying to finish all 3 of them.
Well Fates has balanced gameplay, unlike Awakening, I mean look at Awakening Lunatic+. The first 6 or 7 chapters on lunatic+ are ridiculously unfair and even with a good strategy you have to rely solely on your luck to pull through, then you basically have to grind your ass off, if you want to progress further. Fates is also hard and has unfair moments, but at least even Conquest Lunatic is doable and Fates doesn't rely on grinding that much.
And yes, Awakening has better story, but its still really dumb
And yes, Awakening has better story, but its still really dumb
I don't agree with 1 at all as being a 'problem'. That's a shaky fear, at best, although I would have agreed with this sentiment more had Birthright not taken care of literally every issue I had with Awakening and grinding from a gameplay standpoint. Granted, with Echoes: Shadows of Valeria coming I can't deny that I'm just a BIT more apprehensive of the balancing in that game since opportunities to grind aren't limited to just optional battles that you can safely ignore, but rather that there are dungeons with roaming encounters that you WILL probably run into no matter how good you are at stealthing through... But in terms of sanctioned-off map-based affairs, grinding is totally doable. Not to mention with Awakening, for better or worse, the series has proven that it CAN make grinding outside of core missions practically impossible without serious cheesing. Dunno if Birthright Lunatic manages to nerf outside EXP gain as hard as Awakening's, though.
2 is a matter of taste, I guess, but just because something seems harder or impossible to you, like you mentioned for Conquest, doesn't mean it NEEDS that grinding crutch. If you don't trust your judgement on such matters to the point that you'd rather the feature not exist at all just so you can be SURE of vague balancing intricacies, then... I dunno what to say.
Like, hm, what's an example... Well, let's assume you're NOT low-person running through Awakening's hard mode, and you're NOT playing any of the child paralogues or optional encounters for more money. You keep your levels about on par with the enemies, maybe 1 or 2 above because you want your A-team to be trained up and interacting, and midway through you start to notice that every enemy has inflated base stats and forgeable weapons that break the in-game rules of forging. If you're like ME, and you played through the game like that, and never really bothered to just pump up a single """"""""'best"""""""" unit, then you start to realize that, in addition to the overly wide-open and simplistic map design, that every map (ESPECIALLY IN THE SECOND ARC) devolves into kiting enemies around in a circle and using one high-defense pair-up unit to slowly pick off their forces. Personally, I think that if map design is good enough (as it seems to be in Birthright, mind! I haven't played Conquest yet) then you can TOTALLY make up those differentials in raw numbers with proper placing. But you can't in Awakening, and thus the game's busted as all get out.
I totally don't empathize with 3 at all, either, considering the time I dump into each chapter hits like an hour and a half each try, mainly because of ensuring everyone who I want leveled is leveled properly. And also, since games like this require a good number of missions in order to see how potential of each character is turning out, I end up training up WAY more units for endgame than I would be able to feasibly deploy. This stratagem has not changed, from Sacred Stones, to PoR, to RD (although availability there causes issues), to SD and Awakening and Fates! Hell, even the large chunk I managed to stomach of the original GBA FE played through like that. Wish I could have brought myself to finish it, though...
EDIT: Unrelated to my original post, but I still have to play through the bonus box paralogues in Awakening, just to say I did. But like... just one fucking look at the map and enemy placement of ONE paralogue and it's just... fuck man, no I can't. It honestly annoys me so goddamn much...
That's what Awakening is like without the fresh coat of paint.
well, considering gameplay is the only metric of any merit or worth in the series at large, and fates has considerably better gameplay than awakening, and conquest has considerably better gameplay than most other games in the franchise, i'd say go with fates, unless you're dying for a good story, in which case i have to ask why you're playing fire emblem
Xist2inspire
Member
I've played Awakening, Conquest, and Birthright (I keep forgetting to buy Revelation). Gameplay-wise, Fates is easily the better of the two. The changes to the pairing mechanic alone makes Fates far better than Awakening. Out of the two, Conquest wins over Birthright due to better map design and the harder difficulty stemming from limited access to grinding and extra money. It's the most like classic Fire Emblem from what I've been told, and it's extremely rewarding and enjoyable once you really get a feel for it.
Story-wise, I'd have to say Awakening. Birthright is serviceable though not spectacular, and it really comes off as Awakening Lite sometimes because of its straightforward nature. Conquest is also serviceable if you don't take it too seriously, but the moment you really start thinking about it, you'll see more dropped balls than a Cleveland Browns game. You could legitimately write an entirely new story using the multitude of missed opportunities present in Conquest, and it'd probably be a better one too. The in-story justification for two of Fates' main attractions (My Castle and the children) is poor at best, and really only makes any kind of sense in Revelations from what I can tell. In contrast, Awakening is a simple tale with one major missed opportunity and one ridiculous "now how in the world was this planned" moment, and that's it.
Character-wise, your mileage will vary. Awakening's cast will instantly connect with you, because they're supposed to. All fit into easily-recognized tropes, which makes any kind of additional character development seem interesting and important, and thus welcome. Fates' cast, however, is more nuanced. Few will instantly jump out at you, and will likely come off as somewhat dull at first. The tropes they use also aren't quite as universal as Awakening's. You're practically forced to dive into supports to really get a feel for and connect with Fates' cast...which will often serve to piss you off even more if/when a character doesn't get the development that they should've. This basically makes it so the ones who are done well really shine, but the ones who aren't come off a lot worse than they should.
DLC is another mixed bag, given that the best DLC maps for each focus on their respective strengths. Awakening's best maps focus more on story and characters, giving you access to extra support conversations and a well-done "bad future" scenario. Fates' best maps focus on gameplay, as they put you in tough scenarios with preset units, putting your tactical knowledge to the test. The rewards for doing so can be quite useful in the main game too, so it's not just challenge for the sake of challenge.
It really depends on what you value. If it's story, setting, and characters, I'd go with Awakening, then Birthright, then Conquest. Awakening will ease you into the series in general, Birthright will expand your knowledge of tactics, and Conquest will be your final exam. If it's gameplay that you value, I'd go with Birthright, then Conquest, then Awakening. Birthright eases you into things, Conquest puts you to the test, and then Awakening serves as a nice palette-cleanser that'll help mend any sore feelings from Fates' storyline failings. I have no idea where Revelations fits in there though.
(And whatever you do, don't go Awakening-Conquest-Birthright like I did, it'll make Birthright seem blander and overall much worse than it really is.)
Story-wise, I'd have to say Awakening. Birthright is serviceable though not spectacular, and it really comes off as Awakening Lite sometimes because of its straightforward nature. Conquest is also serviceable if you don't take it too seriously, but the moment you really start thinking about it, you'll see more dropped balls than a Cleveland Browns game. You could legitimately write an entirely new story using the multitude of missed opportunities present in Conquest, and it'd probably be a better one too. The in-story justification for two of Fates' main attractions (My Castle and the children) is poor at best, and really only makes any kind of sense in Revelations from what I can tell. In contrast, Awakening is a simple tale with one major missed opportunity and one ridiculous "now how in the world was this planned" moment, and that's it.
Character-wise, your mileage will vary. Awakening's cast will instantly connect with you, because they're supposed to. All fit into easily-recognized tropes, which makes any kind of additional character development seem interesting and important, and thus welcome. Fates' cast, however, is more nuanced. Few will instantly jump out at you, and will likely come off as somewhat dull at first. The tropes they use also aren't quite as universal as Awakening's. You're practically forced to dive into supports to really get a feel for and connect with Fates' cast...which will often serve to piss you off even more if/when a character doesn't get the development that they should've. This basically makes it so the ones who are done well really shine, but the ones who aren't come off a lot worse than they should.
DLC is another mixed bag, given that the best DLC maps for each focus on their respective strengths. Awakening's best maps focus more on story and characters, giving you access to extra support conversations and a well-done "bad future" scenario. Fates' best maps focus on gameplay, as they put you in tough scenarios with preset units, putting your tactical knowledge to the test. The rewards for doing so can be quite useful in the main game too, so it's not just challenge for the sake of challenge.
It really depends on what you value. If it's story, setting, and characters, I'd go with Awakening, then Birthright, then Conquest. Awakening will ease you into the series in general, Birthright will expand your knowledge of tactics, and Conquest will be your final exam. If it's gameplay that you value, I'd go with Birthright, then Conquest, then Awakening. Birthright eases you into things, Conquest puts you to the test, and then Awakening serves as a nice palette-cleanser that'll help mend any sore feelings from Fates' storyline failings. I have no idea where Revelations fits in there though.
(And whatever you do, don't go Awakening-Conquest-Birthright like I did, it'll make Birthright seem blander and overall much worse than it really is.)
I genuinly like that, because it's the only way he could prove what was really going on.
To prove what's going on and kill Garon was the only way to end the war in Conquest Kamui's head. he also used non lethal combat all the way up.
klabautermann
Member
Hmm, didn't really notice too much of a difference but I wasn't exactly super into the game when I was playing it, so I probably didn't pay that much attention. "More streamlined" I guess comes from the removal of weapon durability and stuff like that.
Yabberwocky
Member
Fates for the soundtrack and gameplay (well, Conquest for gameplay), and Awakening for literally everything else. Awakening had a really strong, definite throughline with its story, whereas Birthright/Conquest feel a lot messier. I still haven't braved Revelations. That being said, I think one of the things that held Awakening's story together for me was a Female Robin/Chrom dynamic, as it was all really relevant to the main story, and makes the
. I started off with a Male Robin at first, and got a bit bored. I restarted with a Female Robin for Chrom, and found the story a lot stronger for it. Birthright and Conquest attempt to do some interesting things with the main siblings (Ryouma, Takumi, Marx, Camilla, Leo), but I still feel like they all ended up being pretty underutilized. I think Fates is a great example of trying to do too much, and inevitably spreading a lot of elements of the game way too thin.
Awakening doesn't have a Lobster Lord, though, which is a shame. OUGI. Or Camilla's huge... tracks of land.
Lucina+you killed my fatheeeeer subplot x100 more dramatic. The family dynamic between Lucina and Morgan as siblings is great, too, along with Morgan trying to figure out if he's worthy of the Falchion
Awakening doesn't have a Lobster Lord, though, which is a shame. OUGI. Or Camilla's huge... tracks of land.
I feel like you'd have to be pretty disengaged not to notice a major difference in how the game utilizes terrain or... how it involves any objective other than 'rout'. That or a very tinted perspective on what Awakening was actually like. Awakening was a fun game in spite of its' simplistic maps and objective design.
I suppose you could call removing the weapon durability streamlining in that it removed some pre-battle busy work in rearranging inventories but fundamentally it doesn't really simplify anything. Weapon durability in general is a mechanic installed to imbue resources with a risk/reward element to them and Fates simply moved the consideration from a fairly binary thought of whether you'd like to use your stronger items earlier for an immediate benefit or saving them for a time you might really need them.
It's hard to say it's otherwise 'streamlined' from Awakening from a game systems sense. Pair Up was expounded on and rebalanced (not enough) for example.