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First Forza 5 Direct Feed Gameplay: Bernese Alps

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This thread man...
 
SenjutsuSage said:
Damn, I know that this is youtube and there's a lot of compression, but I have to be honest and say I'm kinda disappointed by the way this looks. I'm starting to think maybe I was expecting too much graphically for a major Forza game at launch on new hardware. It's pretty much a guarantee that the gameplay and physics will likely be awesome as usual, and ultimately that's most important, but this video really isn't jumping out at me as a true next gen Forza Motorsport.

Don't get me wrong, it's a step up from Forza 4, but a much smaller one than I would have expected on much more powerful hardware. I really needed to go back and look at Forza 4 as a reminder of what that game looked like to actually see what potential improvements were present in this one. I know Turn 10 said that they're now an entirely different team in terms of capability than they were before, which I believe, but I'm afraid even that fact may not be quite enough to mask the reality that they definitely needed more time with this game. There's no doubt in my mind that Forza 6 and 7 will look incredible, but watching this video the thing that most jumps out at me is that this seems like a repeat of what happened with Forza 2 on the 360.

It was an amazing game, but it wasn't nearly quite the visual jump that people were expecting. However, once Turn 10 had some more experience with the box under their belt, Forza 3 and Forza 4 both showcased incredible visual progression. I remember being surprised that Forza 2 and Forza 4 were actually on the same console, and unless this latest video is just an aberration, then history may well repeat itself. I'm sure they still have an amazing game on their hands at launch, but this wasn't the most encouraging video, and I'm stunned it was released looking like this. It doesn't look as bad in some of the GIFs, but it's downright rough in that video.
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First ,welcome back.

Second, What the hell are you talking about? Forza looks impressive

inb4 dynamic lighting.
 
godelsmetric said:
So is it usual for visual effects to be removed from games as they get closer to launch?
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More like it's usual for a work in progress to have issues as things get changed.

Obviously there was a problem with the alps lighting or the current builds paint shadow mapping which required them to be turned off or hid the shadows being mapped onto the painted surfaces. Look around the brake lights and grills at the rear and you can indeed see the car moving into and out of shadows.

Game development, how does it work?
 
SenjutsuSage said:
Damn, I know that this is youtube and there's a lot of compression, but I have to be honest and say I'm kinda disappointed by the way this looks. I'm starting to think maybe I was expecting too much graphically for a major Forza game at launch on new hardware. It's pretty much a guarantee that the gameplay and physics will likely be awesome as usual, and ultimately that's most important, but this video really isn't jumping out at me as a true next gen Forza Motorsport.

Don't get me wrong, it's a step up from Forza 4, but a much smaller one than I would have expected on much more powerful hardware. I really needed to go back and look at Forza 4 as a reminder of what that game looked like to actually see what potential improvements were present in this one. I know Turn 10 said that they're now an entirely different team in terms of capability than they were before, which I believe, but I'm afraid even that fact may not be quite enough to mask the reality that they definitely needed more time with this game. There's no doubt in my mind that Forza 6 and 7 will look incredible, but watching this video the thing that most jumps out at me is that this seems like a repeat of what happened with Forza 2 on the 360.

It was an amazing game, but it wasn't nearly quite the visual jump that people were expecting. However, once Turn 10 had some more experience with the box under their belt, Forza 3 and Forza 4 both showcased incredible visual progression. I remember being surprised that Forza 2 and Forza 4 were actually on the same console, and unless this latest video is just an aberration, then history may well repeat itself. I'm sure they still have an amazing game on their hands at launch, but this wasn't the most encouraging video, and I'm stunned it was released looking like this. It doesn't look as bad in some of the GIFs, but it's downright rough in that video.
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I agree completely. Bearing in mind that we can be fairly certain they are incredibly tight on time, and that the Xbone itself is reportedly behind, I could definitely see this being Forza 2 to Forza 7's Forza 4.
 
SenjutsuSage said:
Damn, I know that this is youtube and there's a lot of compression, but I have to be honest and say I'm kinda disappointed by the way this looks. I'm starting to think maybe I was expecting too much graphically for a major Forza game at launch on new hardware. It's pretty much a guarantee that the gameplay and physics will likely be awesome as usual, and ultimately that's most important, but this video really isn't jumping out at me as a true next gen Forza Motorsport.

Don't get me wrong, it's a step up from Forza 4, but a much smaller one than I would have expected on much more powerful hardware. I really needed to go back and look at Forza 4 as a reminder of what that game looked like to actually see what potential improvements were present in this one. I know Turn 10 said that they're now an entirely different team in terms of capability than they were before, which I believe, but I'm afraid even that fact may not be quite enough to mask the reality that they definitely needed more time with this game. There's no doubt in my mind that Forza 6 and 7 will look incredible, but watching this video the thing that most jumps out at me is that this seems like a repeat of what happened with Forza 2 on the 360.

It was an amazing game, but it wasn't nearly quite the visual jump that people were expecting. However, once Turn 10 had some more experience with the box under their belt, Forza 3 and Forza 4 both showcased incredible visual progression. I remember being surprised that Forza 2 and Forza 4 were actually on the same console, and unless this latest video is just an aberration, then history may well repeat itself. I'm sure they still have an amazing game on their hands at launch, but this wasn't the most encouraging video, and I'm stunned it was released looking like this. It doesn't look as bad in some of the GIFs, but it's downright rough in that video.
Click to expand...

This thread is so confusing. This is the first negative thing I've ever heard you say about the Xbox One or one of it's games, and it's also one of the few times I've disagreed with you. Lol...

But I'll reserve judgement till higher quality Blim footage. It is not really fair to judge off a YouTube video that is pretty heavily compressed.
 
nib95 said:
This thread is so confusing. This is the first negative thing I've ever heard you say about the Xbox One or one of it's games, and it's also one of the few times I've disagreed with you. Lol...

But I'll reserve judgement till higher quality Blim footage. It is not really fair to judge off a YouTube video that is pretty heavily compressed.
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Hahah. I had the same exact reaction to his post. Weird. I am easy to impress when it comes to racing games though. I don't play them much and so when I see them I love the look.
 
SatansReverence said:
More like it's usual for a work in progress to have issues as things get changed.

Obviously there was a problem with the alps lighting or the current builds paint shadow mapping which required them to be turned off or hid the shadows being mapped onto the painted surfaces. Look around the brake lights and grills at the rear and you can indeed see the car moving into and out of shadows.

Game development, how does it work?
Click to expand...

I'm the first person to admit I don't have detailed knowledge of how development progresses. I'd kind of assumed, though, that something like shadows appearing on cars isn't really the kind of thing that could be, for want of a better term, 'broken' or have problems like this.

[edit] And maybe I've been spoiled by GTAV's incredible water visuals, but the flat lake surface with normal-mapped waves sticks out like a sore thumb.
 
godelsmetric said:
And maybe I've been spoiled by GTAV's incredible water visuals, but the flat lake surface with normal-mapped waves sticks out like a sore thumb.
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Actually from looking at the trailer at 0:28 and nib95 last screenshot from Forza 4 (page 12) it seems its the same one but i could be wrong.
 
Chobel said:
First ,welcome back.

Second, What the hell are you talking about? Forza looks impressive

inb4 dynamic lighting.
Click to expand...

I completely believed, prior to this video, that Forza looked extremely impressive, and didn't for a single second believe that it was using fully "baked" lighting or any of that silliness some are so very fond of saying. It's just using a fixed lighting position, but the lighting, I felt, behaved exactly as it should given those lighting conditions. In fact, the primary lighting technique as described by turn 10 seems to be the same as what's used in Unreal Engine 4, which I think is called physical based lighting or something to that effect, where no matter what the lightning conditions, the developers don't have to go and retweek everything, since all the materials have certain properties and, as such, behave exactly as they should and are expected to under any and all lighting conditions.

I felt that if lighting areas are supposedly 100% all baked into the textures as some think, then the cars probably wouldn't be capable of casting a dynamic shadow and obscuring some of that lighting that's suppose to be baked in the textures as I see clearly happening in Forza 5. I've seen E3 footage where the player ran into some of the cones on the side of the road, knocking it into the air and into the street, and the cone clearly casted a dynamic shadow onto the road. So I've never particularly felt there was much of anything wrong with Forza 5's lighting. Turn 10 might be taken advantage of some baked lighting tricks, but the entirety of Forza 5 certainly isn't lit that way.

The shadows and how they reflected onto the vehicle when driving through that heavy tree location on the Prague track is also something else I thought looked quite good. It also goes without saying that the car models look incredible both internally and externally. So, make no mistake, I was definitely a believer in how fantastic Forza 5 looked, but this video gives me serious cause for concern. Like I said, I just hope with youtube compression and all, it's just a very bad representation of what this game looks like.

nib95 said:
This thread is so confusing. This is the first negative thing I've ever heard you say about the Xbox One or one of it's games, and it's also one of the few times I've disagreed with you. Lol...

But I'll reserve judgement till higher quality Blim footage. It is not really fair to judge off a YouTube video that is pretty heavily compressed.
Click to expand...

Well, anybody that isn't completely focused on attacking almost everything I say would know that this is far from the first time I've ever said something critical pertaining to the Xbox One. It's just I get far more attention for when I defend the system or its games, but not so much when I make criticisms. Prior to my most recent vacation (ban :P) I stated how disappointed I was with how I felt this game was being handled with regards to keeping those looking forward to it informed of its progress, and I stated that I had canceled my pre-order (of the game, not the system) because I had really run out of reasons to feel good about my purchase. I was dead serious when I said that, and this video sure isn't helping. I'm not going to immediately say there's no way in hell I'll ever buy this game for the Xbox One, but as of now I'm very concerned.
 
Ghouse said:
Forza Motorsport 5: Developing for Xbox One Impulse Triggers

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWiMZkntIbk&hd=1

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Is that new direct feed gameplay I see in this video? If so, it looks incredible, and I guess my fears were for nothing. Or is that just a better looking replay that I'm seeing? Not referring to what's obviously E3 footage, but that chunk of driving on prague that was def direct feed, and longer than anything we've gotten direct feed for that track.

One thing I'd like to see Turn 10 improve on in future Forza titles is to make the driver's hand movements look more natural when making more extreme movements of the steering wheel. It looks fine when making slight turns or on a straight away, but something seems off when the driver is really turning the wheel far enough in any one direction.
 
SenjutsuSage said:
Is that new direct feed gameplay I see in this video? If so, it looks incredible, and I guess my fears were for nothing. Or is that just a better looking replay that I'm seeing? Not referring to what's obviously E3 footage, but that chunk of driving on prague that was def direct feed, and longer than anything we've gotten direct feed for that track.

One thing I'd like to see Turn 10 improve on in future Forza titles is to make the driver's hand movements look more natural when making more extreme movements of the steering wheel. It looks fine when making slight turns or on a straight away, but something seems off when the driver is really turning the wheel far enough in any one direction.
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I think it might have been a replay. Last I heard the game was 60 with no motion blur during gameplay and 30 with blur in replays. Correct me if I'm wrong.
 
Question, why are forza tracks so wide? I have always wondered about that. (Both prague and this mountain course suffer from this).
 
SenjutsuSage said:
The shadows and how they reflected onto the vehicle when driving through that heavy tree location on the Prague track is also something else I thought looked quite good. It also goes without saying that the car models look incredible both internally and externally. So, make no mistake, I was definitely a believer in how fantastic Forza 5 looked, but this video gives me serious cause for concern. Like I said, I just hope with youtube compression and all, it's just a very bad representation of what this game looks like.
Click to expand...

The game looks very good, but I think from what we know about the lighting Turn 10 will have to rely on their artists for creating that believable contrast between light and shadow.

Niks said:
Question, why are forza tracks so wide? I have always wondered about that. (Both prague and this mountain course suffer from this).
Click to expand...

The tracks are more like racing tracks. They have to be wide to allow overtaking. The other game, we cannot mention, Canada track is going to be too crazy with 12 cars on track for how narrow it is, but it's an arcade racer.
 
I'd still like to know what ever compelled them to release that initial video in that sorry state that it's in.

I'm excited about the system, and would love to get this game, but sometimes I think they have the worst possible instincts where it concerns releasing decent quality media to help advertise their games and platform. Maybe I just have on rose tinted glasses regarding how things were handled with the 360, but it's been quite a persisting issue with the Xbox One.

Niks said:
Question, why are forza tracks so wide? I have always wondered about that. (Both prague and this mountain course suffer from this).
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If some weren't wide, I would fear for my chances. I need some room to operate, and by operate I mean slide uncontrollably for long enough to actually recover before I crash into something. :)
 
It doesn't look good at all to me and that surprises me because usually driving games have very impressive and realistic graphics.

I don't know, maybe that is just the nature of the Forza series, they release games more often so I guess we shouldn't expect huge changes.

Also part of it might just be YouTube compression, some textures looks worse than current gen games, specially the track.
 
BruiserBear said:
Those triggers are a pretty neat idea, unlike a giant light on the top of the controller. I'm curious to see what they feel like in action.
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Agreed, I like the idea a lot. A few people have said it's kind of weak but that could just be because devs hadn't done much with them yet.
 
travisbickle said:
The game looks very good, but I think from what we know about the lighting Turn 10 will have to rely on their artists for creating that believable contrast between light and shadow.



The tracks are more like racing tracks. They have to be wide to allow overtaking. The other game, we cannot mention, Canada track is going to be too crazy with 12 cars on track for how narrow it is, but it's an arcade racer.
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I couldn't agree more, and I have no issue with that. I don't particularly feel there's anything wrong with the lighting, but the art and style of this game will play a big role in its overall visual punch, and it's a big part of the reason why I think it looks so good, but way too much about that direct feed video rubbed me the wrong way. Honestly, I'm just hoping it was a really crappy capture of a build that went wrong, and nobody even bothered to take a look at it before releasing it. I hope it's in no way representative of this game, because I feel it looks decidedly worse compared to everything I've been seeing up until this point.

Freeman said:
It doesn't look good at all to me and that surprises me because usually driving games have very impressive and realistic graphics.

I don't know, maybe that is just the nature of the Forza series, they release games more often so I guess we shouldn't expect huge changes.

Also part of it might just be YouTube compression, some textures looks worse than current gen games, specially the track.
Click to expand...

Seriously. I was disgusted looking at parts of that track. Youtube compression has to be part of it, but youtube alone can't be the only thing responsible. That build of the game seemed seriously off, or maybe the original capture was just really bad.
 
Just saw that awesome speedcam advertisement during tonight's prime time football game on ESPN.

Didn't realize there would be a TV version.

Ad also says "Race the cars from the movie Rush"
 
Wario64 said:
So says Major Nelson

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YfEUVjGq80&feature=youtu.be
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This does look like Forza 4. I was surprised at the response in this thread initially, but then I watched it myself. It does look extremely unimpressive in this footage.

Ghouse said:
Forza Motorsport 5: Developing for Xbox One Impulse Triggers

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWiMZkntIbk&hd=1

Click to expand...

This on the other hand looks better than basically everything... I'm a bit suspicious on how improved the game may look during replay footage. Similarly, the recent DriveClub replay footage was the first time I thought the game actually looked good, whilst I was unimpressed with all the previous gameplay footage I've seen.

Hopefully both aren't BS'ing us with their replays.
 
Ghouse said:
Forza Motorsport 5: Developing for Xbox One Impulse Triggers

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWiMZkntIbk&hd=1

Click to expand...
Let me give my unbiased opinion about the triggers. For the record I'm not buying ps4 or xb1 at launch likely. Anyways, in August I went to fanexpo in Toronto and played forza 5 at the gaming section. And honestly although this video seems like a bunch of hype pr talk bull#@!%.... its not. The triggers for the xb1's controller have the potential to be godly and the forza 5 demo showcased that perfectly. My palms were sweating after one race, i felt so immersed because of the controller feedback and amazing sound design (being heard some equally nice headset they had hooked up).

I honestly hope sony and nintendp will make a new controller for ps4/wii u that includes similar triggers. It's that good

Believe the hype gaf.
 
SenjutsuSage said:
Seriously. I was disgusted looking at parts of that track. Youtube compression has to be part of it, but youtube alone can't be the only thing responsible. That build of the game seemed seriously off, or maybe the original capture was just really bad.
Click to expand...

It's definitely shitty compression/capture. I mean, you can see it even in the HUD.
 
Synth said:
This does look like Forza 4. I was surprised at the response in this thread initially, but then I watched it myself. It does look extremely unimpressive in this footage.



This on the other hand looks better than basically everything... I'm a bit suspicious on how improved the game may look during replay footage. Similarly, the recent DriveClub replay footage was the first time I thought the game actually looked good, whilst I was unimpressed with all the previous gameplay footage I've seen.

Hopefully both aren't BS'ing us with their replays.
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All I know is if I won't be able to play Forza 5 looking exactly as good as it does in that prague footage shown in that vid, I won't be buying it. I pre-ordered based on what the game looked like at E3. The direct feed footage that started this thread is a much tougher sell.

I felt like Cartman did that time his mother didn't get him an iPad while watching that after seeing the earlier amazing footage.
 
Barrel Cannon said:
Let me give my unbiased opinion about the triggers. For the record I'm not buying ps4 or xb1 at launch likely. Anyways, in August I went to fanexpo in Toronto and played forza 5 at the gaming section. And honestly although this video seems like a bunch of hype pr talk bull#@!%.... its not. The triggers for the xb1's controller have the potential to be godly and the forza 5 demo showcased that perfectly. My palms were sweating after one race, i felt so immersed because of the controller feedback and amazing sound design (being heard some equally nice headset they had hooked up).

I honestly hope sony and nintendp will make a new controller for ps4/wii u that includes similar triggers. It's that good

Believe the hype gaf.
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g7IsB.gif
 
SenjutsuSage said:
I felt that if lighting areas are supposedly 100% all baked into the textures as some think, then the cars probably wouldn't be capable of casting a dynamic shadow and obscuring some of that lighting that's suppose to be baked in the textures as I see clearly happening in Forza 5.
Click to expand...

The car's dynamic self shadows are rendered separately from the pre-baked environment shadows, and it doesn't require the environment to have real-time lighting. Even xbox games had dynamic car shadows.
 
not_so_special said:
seriously this persecution complex some microsoft fans have in gaf its gettin tiresome,you can find the same examples on wiiu threads...the same can be said about vita threads and in the past ps3 threads.

stop this whole bullshit about gaf being anti microsofr,prosony or pro nintendo and btw this "you cant criticise forza 5 graphics " is moronic,if you have valid arguments you can criticise anything with respect,game looks good,but some things like jaggies on the white lines,or the lighing arent stellar
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Uhh, if the criticisms in this thread were even partially valid you might have a point (as it relates to this thread). But most of the criticism is obvious trolling. F5 looks good, much better than F4. Does it meet people's expectations of what 'nextgen' should look like? That's a different question.
 
I've just come back from driving in the mind-blowing Bernese Alps myself. And I can tell you that Gran Turismo HD (set in Kleine Shidegg) invoked a far better likeness of the area than this does. Just looks like a random mountain track and then they've just stuck a name of a mountainous place on it. Can't say I'm too impressed to be honest, looks a little cartoony in its presentation. DriveClub has more realism in its graphics, but then it has half the framerate. Basically, I'm anxious to see what GT7 ends up looking like.
 
Looks pretty good but does the weight really shift from front to back and back to front when shifting gears as much in real life?
 
BruiserBear said:
I don't know why, but I'm not super impressed. I just got done playing a lot of FM4, and I don't know, this just reminded me of a higher res version of that. Maybe I need to see more cars on the track.

It looks nice. The sound is fantastic.
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Yeah,, that's probably because it's the same track, due to this it has a level of familiarity than if you'd just seen it for the first time. Tons of improvements though, better lighting, textures, the background is not fake like in FM4, the little details like mist on the water. In cockpit and at 60fps I bet it looks gorgeous.
 
HokieJoe said:
Uhh, if the criticisms in this thread were even partially valid you might have a point (as it relates to this thread). But most of the criticism is obvious trolling. F5 looks good, much better than F4. Does it meet people's expectations of what 'nextgen' should look like? That's a different question.
Click to expand...

I don't think that's true in this case. I'm only picking up an XB1 for launch, but this footage is some of the worst I've seen from any game on either the XB1 or PS4. It's probably just a bad quality video, but you definitely don't have to be Sony-aligned to think this video doesn't look very good.
 
shandy706 said:
More likely a post by someone that doesn't know what they're talking about...again...

The track is very different, the lighting is very different. Heck, the track has actually been remade. It's incredibly obvious if you do a side by side or played it in the past.

Entire mountains have been moved, walls replaced, areas of the track look completely different. Yes, they kept a few areas similar/the same...but if you compare each straight and corner...there are night and day differences.

I'll post this darn thing again...showing that not only is the landscaping different, but they even changed/removed things like fences.

4gbd.jpg



Edit** skdoo - notice how everything from the railing, the fence, the road itself, the lighting of the car...it's all different. That shot is in the same curve.
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thanks for the direct comparison, Looks much better than forza4 of course, but I think it shows that it's a launch game, It does kind of look like a big budget HD remaster but I don't think that's going to matter too much, I'm sure Forza 6 will have a lot longer in the oven and will be much superior.
 
Those Youtube comments lol

The ESRAM is hardly anything of importance? You may want to check your facts before you post bullshit. And no, the PS4 is not noticeably more powerful.. On paper it is. In the real world, no.
Click to expand...

Also, BF4 will look better on Xbox One because X1 has the newest direct x while PS4 does not, and BF4 primarily runs on the newest direct x.
Click to expand...
 
Cuyejo said:
That footage has been shown before I think, the gameplay bits I mean, and after watching it again on high res and comparing it to the direct feed from the OP, I can't help but think that, either, there's been a major downgrade or that that footage wasn't running on Xbone.
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I don't think either are true. Prague is their showcase track for Forza 5, probably because it's their most stunning track. Similarly the Alps was their showcase track for Forza 4 for the same reason. The upgrade between the Alps in F4 and F5 is pretty big but it was always a great looking track which is maybe why some people aren't seeing as big of a difference as they might expect.
 
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