AltogetherAndrews
Member
Shut up and play Bulletstorm
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First person shooters: A wasted gen
- Thread starter GC|Simon
- Start date
~Devil Trigger~
In favor of setting Muslim women on fire
Wasted Gen?
lol, @ blind FPS hate. And danmit icant stand hardcore nostalgia, not everything old is better. Today's console FPS are better, period.
I own one console and i dont like RPGs generally, and I've played plenty of awesome non FPS games.
lol, @ blind FPS hate. And danmit icant stand hardcore nostalgia, not everything old is better. Today's console FPS are better, period.
I own one console and i dont like RPGs generally, and I've played plenty of awesome non FPS games.
AlimNassor
Banned
I agree. I'm suffering from a severe shooter fatigue. Most the FPS games this gen aren't...bad. It's just, most are quick rentals and no replay value. A lot just play copy CoD and end up being bad. I'm sorta burned out on FPS games.
Grinchy
Banned
I feel like I agree with you, but then I also don't. One of the earlier posters had it right when he said that these games that were so amazing to us on PS2 wouldn't fare well today. I feel like maybe we've all come to a point where we're given a certain level of quality by today's games and we accept it as a standard. We're not overly impressed by Call of Duty anymore despite its incredible production values.
If our old selves in the PS2 days saw a video of today's CoD, we'd still be cleaning the shit stains out of our batman underwear. There has been a major improvement, and I just think we don't see it anymore.
If our old selves in the PS2 days saw a video of today's CoD, we'd still be cleaning the shit stains out of our batman underwear. There has been a major improvement, and I just think we don't see it anymore.
BobsRevenge
I do not avoid women, GAF, but I do deny them my essence.
Call of Pripyat can't be a perfect antidote for people sick of bro shooters, because the NPCs in the game call you bro in just about every dialogue. :lolSnuggler said:
Anyways, the STALKER games are great, but people recommend them too easily imo. They aren't for everyone and take a significant commitment to get into and truly enjoy. You really have to put some time in before the rhythm of it kicks in and you start really having fun.
1 and 3 are definitely good games. However, not the most accessible.
Neuromancer
Member
You must be great at parties.StevieP said:
hey_it's_that_dog
benevolent sexism
StevieP said:
But there's gameplay too, right? Maybe some shooting? In first person?
Rahxephon91
Banned
Goldeneye is terrible today as is Perfect Dark. Sure they were fun back in the day, but epsically in Goldeneye's case the sp is pretty terrible. Sure a lot of FPS today could take away the multiple objective idea from them and greatly improve on them, but I'd take this gens FPS well over the previous gens.
subversus said:
Correct, and some of the single player on a friends' 360. No thanks.
This has nothing to do with the Wii (at least, I hope it doesn't) and more the fact that you can find a lot of unique experiences on the little white box that aren't your typical dudebro game. You can find many of those on PC/PS360 as well, mind you, but due to the fact that the Wii was underpowered some developers took this as an excuse to (use their b/c-teams to) try things that weren't your typical corridor shooter. Sometimes with great results, other times not so great. Just as with the DS, there was more variety (and more shovelware) per square foot.
Quite a few FPS games were released this year and most sucked:
Killzone 3, Bulletstorm, Homefront, Conduit 2, F.3.A.R., Duke Nukem Forever, Brink some are downright terrible, others have issues. Out of those I'd even consider Duke Nukem Forever the most 'enjoyable' but that had more to do with the crazy scenario of Duke being a 1996 game released in 2011.
So even if this generation has been all about the shooters, there is little evolution in the genre. Crysis 2 did some things rather well but also had issues but in terms of content(outside of the multiplayer) it's better than the other games I listed.
Bodycount seems meh, Resistance 3.. why even bother after 2, Call of Duty could be ok-ish probably better than the clones. Halo Anniversary, the 'change visuals' buttons is pretty neat outside of that it'll be interesting to see how it holds up. It seems almost like cheating to list Deus Ex: HR and Red Orchestra 2 among these failed games well based on the previews anyway. Battlefield 3 seems promising too but I guess it'll need quite a few patches post release to really shine(like any other Battlefield).
So overall I'm not even 'against' shooters but they can keep the shitty low quality products released these days. You'd think that after 6(?) years of focus on FPS games we'd see the best FPS titles out there but publishers and developers still seem to fuck it up.
Killzone 3, Bulletstorm, Homefront, Conduit 2, F.3.A.R., Duke Nukem Forever, Brink some are downright terrible, others have issues. Out of those I'd even consider Duke Nukem Forever the most 'enjoyable' but that had more to do with the crazy scenario of Duke being a 1996 game released in 2011.
So even if this generation has been all about the shooters, there is little evolution in the genre. Crysis 2 did some things rather well but also had issues but in terms of content(outside of the multiplayer) it's better than the other games I listed.
Bodycount seems meh, Resistance 3.. why even bother after 2, Call of Duty could be ok-ish probably better than the clones. Halo Anniversary, the 'change visuals' buttons is pretty neat outside of that it'll be interesting to see how it holds up. It seems almost like cheating to list Deus Ex: HR and Red Orchestra 2 among these failed games well based on the previews anyway. Battlefield 3 seems promising too but I guess it'll need quite a few patches post release to really shine(like any other Battlefield).
So overall I'm not even 'against' shooters but they can keep the shitty low quality products released these days. You'd think that after 6(?) years of focus on FPS games we'd see the best FPS titles out there but publishers and developers still seem to fuck it up.
AltogetherAndrews
Member
D
Deleted member 81567
Unconfirmed Member
Remember when sandbox games used to replicate GTA in any way possible? This is currently happening with Modern Warfare now. It's a phase, it'll pass.
Admiral Bone to Pick
Banned
I feel like, at least with console shooters, nothing since has been unable to capture the variety of levels and the atmosphere found in Goldeneye. I absolutely loved levels like Facility and Jungle. Surface (the snow map) actually scared me when I was younger because enemies would often come out of nowhere. To me, Call of Duty feels like the epitome of boring, bland level design. At least Gears 2 had a great atmosphere that kept me playing.
This generation has seen the release of many great FPS games. We've had original stuff like Mirror's Edge, games that perfected the formula of certain franchises like the Halo: Reach campaign and shooters so damn good they still blow minds today like Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare. Overall we had an ok ride but early 2011 it all seems to be sliding down a shit bin.Mr. Serious Business said:
Nuclear Muffin
Banned
TacticalFox88 said:
Yep, and the worst thing is that its influence has spread beyond the FPS genre. Just look at Uncharted or even LA Noire (which uses a similar ranking system)
Most AAA blockbuster games these days are nothing more than skinner boxes.
The Antitype
Banned
With all due respect to your opinion.... you're out of your fucking mind.
First person shooters have never played better, been more fun, or been more diverse than they are this generation.
Could some franchises use some time off? Sure. But to say they don't live up to the supposed standards of a Timesplitters? LOL
First person shooters have never played better, been more fun, or been more diverse than they are this generation.
Could some franchises use some time off? Sure. But to say they don't live up to the supposed standards of a Timesplitters? LOL
NBtoaster said:
I'm just now playing Crysis 2 for the first time, but I can see where the complaints are coming from. It's no doubt a competent game, and it looks amazing, but it feels so safe compared to the first game. Instead of finding your own way to objectives, you're smothered by an overbearing interface that insists on showing you the way. Instead of learning the suit powers through experience, you're constantly being sucked into unskippable tutorials that place you in a spot where you're intended to use a specific ability instead of using your own judgement. It's designed in a way to be inviting to everyone, but in turn it makes the game disappointingly rigid to those who want more.
It feels like riding a mountain bike with training wheels on.
RockmanWhore
Member
I'm pretty disapointed that the Goldeneye/Perfect Dark/Timesplitters legacy seems forever lost. Perfect Dark Zero and Haze turned to be terrible (still liked PDZ because it shares a lot with the original in term of gameplay, but the controls are horrible, and the game was clearly rushed). I kind of hope that Timesplitters 4 will come back someday, with some glorious Crytek Engine magic. But it could just be another CoD clone in the end. I still prefer the aiming from Timesplitters Future Perfect over any FPS realeased this gen, I wish some devs improved over that template instead of copying Halo's one.
But still, there are tons of quality shooters out there, personnaly I'm a big fan of Portal, Resistance and Killzone, but there are so much more out there, if you really don't like any shooter made this gen, you're really hard to please.
But still, there are tons of quality shooters out there, personnaly I'm a big fan of Portal, Resistance and Killzone, but there are so much more out there, if you really don't like any shooter made this gen, you're really hard to please.
The Antitype
Banned
GC|Simon said:
Yeah. Nothing better than having my view of the screen cut by up to 75% or being limited to 4 players per session 90% of the time. Are you high?
Split-screen gaming and couch co-op can be fun in the right genres. The FPS is not one of them. I'd much rather have a full screen, up to 16 human players anytime I want, perpetual stat-tracking, and all the other benefits that make modern FPS games 10x what was available even last generation, let alone the N64.
GC|Simon said:
Yes, we played them. They were great for the time. They have aged like a corpse in the sun. They are janky, ugly, they control like shit, and the moment-to-moment combat had as much depth and nuance as a half-filled kiddie pool.
And really? Goldeneye Wii? Better than the likes of Bioshock, Portal 2, Halo: Reach campaign, and a multitude of other amazing shooters? Hah.
GC|Simon said:
Wow. So Halo is overrated, but TimeSplitters, THAT was the glory days?
Crysis 2 is a better, more fun game than Crysis. The original had beautiful tech and a sandbox that was fun to play around in... for awhile. It quickly got boring. Crysis 2 keeps things interesting - you still have the combat sandboxes, but now there's a sense of forward momentum to the proceedings, which keeps the pace and tension higher.
Combichristoffersen
Combovers don't work when there is no hair
Every gen that doesn't offer a Blood 3 or a Blood 1 remake is a wasted FPS-gen 
Admiral Bone to Pick
Banned
[Nintex] said:
I wouldn't really classify Mirror's Edge as a FPS (and I also didn't think it was that great, but I'm in the minority there). Really, my main problem is that as games try to be more cinematic (and more like big-budget movies), they sacrifice their overall atmospheres. Majora's Mask was one of the most haunting games I ever played, mainly because of the time limit and the desolate, bleak feel of the game. It's been a great gen from a multiplayer standpoint, but the campaigns have taken a hit. At least Gears 2 didn't take itself TOO seriously and had a mission
inside a GIANT WORM.
Also, I'd add that Bioshock is still my favorite shooter of this gen, and a perfect example of how to create a great atmosphere and be creative within the genre. Nothing this generation compares to playing Bioshock at 2 in the morning. It's perfect.
Warm Machine
Member
Snuggler said:
Do they? Halo Reach has a Forge, theater, customs like crazy and a good sized campaign. Far Cry 2 has an incredible map editor and a 20+ hour campaign. Section 8 Prejudice has pretty great bots on top of its very deep MP. I can see people not being into the SP gameplay of CoD with its tightly restricted maps and basic AI but not all FPS games are like that.
The Console vs. PC stuff in the board needs to end. CoD started this whole thing and was originally an exclusive highly acclaimed PC game. It started as a corridor shooter on PC and that gameplay that kicked it off is still there.
Waxing poetic about games of the Doom era is silly. You were a rat in a maze looking for coloured key cards with enemies that just ran toward you on angles. It was as basic an action experience as you can get. Still a great game but incredibly basic. Even Half-Life 2 is pretty much a corridor game. When it opens up it does so less than Crysis 2 does unless you want to count its long boat and driving sequences as open. Linear maps with linear progression.
Neuromancer
Member
Dude, yes. =(Combichristoffersen said:Every gen that doesn't offer a Blood 3 or a Blood 1 remake is a wasted FPS-gen
Warm Machine said:
Yes, there are a few games that are an exception to modern trends, but that doesn't disprove anything that's been said in this thread. As I've said before, there are still quite a few great FPS games on the market, but there have been some nasty trends to surface this gen as well. You don't have to put the "classics" on a pedestal to acknowledge that.
FieryBalrog
Member
Playing Goldeneye on a N64 controller made me want to throw it through a window.
watership said:
Goldeneye Wii's single player campaign is leaps and bounds better than the majority of SP campaigns released this gen.
You can play it for yourself in the upcoming HD port, though I would recommend playing it with Move since it was built around having access to a superior pointer. Because it was on Wii, most gaming "journalists" ignored it. Unfortunately its MP is a shitty CoD-lite. But the single player was good.
Correct. Most of my experience comes from the demo and a lot of promotional material/videos. All of which soured me from the experience. I'm not paying $30 on Steam for what I've experienced of the game thus far. And I'm not the only one on GAF who considers it a bit too... "over the top", either. It didn't help that the PC port was shit upon release. The recent Bulletstorm thread should serve as a great example if you'd like to dig it up.
Edit: do you see?
And unfortunately that will continue into next gen. We still have Move/Wiimote, though. And if you're like me you do most of your gaming on PC, anyway, to get around that autoaimey-mess.
Shooters have made this generation worth while for me...and many of my age (30's) and time contraints (2 kids, work etc).
Without shooters, I'd have lost touch with a number of friends who have moved for jobs, or families, without shooters I'd have no outlet for my 23 minutes of free time a day to play games. Shooters are my 'cell phone' chats with buddies, and the minutes are free, and it provides serious lulz during the conversation.
Are the single player campaigns good...I have no idea, I dont play them, wish they didn't have them, and cost 20 bucks less...but this is the online generation, and its coping with the fact that most of the people that made console gaming take off (the 30 somethings now) simply don't have time to burn anymore. Its either, play 3 rounds of COD, or one game of Battelfield with friends, bullshitting about life / sports / jobs etc, or play cut the rope on my phone while watching TV with my kid sleeping on my lap. Instant gratification isn't due to dev's getting lazy, it sells for a reason beyond that of "gamers these days are lazy sucko's"
I don't act like I represent every PS3 / 360 owner, but there are A LOT like me and my friends.
(I do wish I had more time to play deep games...but I don't)
Without shooters, I'd have lost touch with a number of friends who have moved for jobs, or families, without shooters I'd have no outlet for my 23 minutes of free time a day to play games. Shooters are my 'cell phone' chats with buddies, and the minutes are free, and it provides serious lulz during the conversation.
Are the single player campaigns good...I have no idea, I dont play them, wish they didn't have them, and cost 20 bucks less...but this is the online generation, and its coping with the fact that most of the people that made console gaming take off (the 30 somethings now) simply don't have time to burn anymore. Its either, play 3 rounds of COD, or one game of Battelfield with friends, bullshitting about life / sports / jobs etc, or play cut the rope on my phone while watching TV with my kid sleeping on my lap. Instant gratification isn't due to dev's getting lazy, it sells for a reason beyond that of "gamers these days are lazy sucko's"
I don't act like I represent every PS3 / 360 owner, but there are A LOT like me and my friends.
(I do wish I had more time to play deep games...but I don't)
online > couch
this gen > all other gens
I've played thousands of hours across the 76/121 games x360a calls shooters. There is such a diverse and awesome experience available on the Xbox 360 outside of the great games you mentioned that to at least not recognize the quality is a shame.
Bioshock
Left 4 Dead
ShadowRun
50 Cent BitS
GRAW
RSV
PDZ (back in the day)
SC
A (spies vs mercs remains one of the best MP experiences ever)
RF:G
With such a large library it's easy to pick out games that people don't like or that are lacking in some ways.
this gen > all other gens
I've played thousands of hours across the 76/121 games x360a calls shooters. There is such a diverse and awesome experience available on the Xbox 360 outside of the great games you mentioned that to at least not recognize the quality is a shame.
Bioshock
Left 4 Dead
ShadowRun
50 Cent BitS
GRAW
RSV
PDZ (back in the day)
SC
A (spies vs mercs remains one of the best MP experiences ever)RF:G
With such a large library it's easy to pick out games that people don't like or that are lacking in some ways.
Neuromancer
Member
Your mistake was in not playing with two controllers, one in each hand. Dual analog baby!FieryBalrog said:
Warm Machine
Member
Snuggler said:
I agree, there are loads of copycat games out there that try an expensive bare minimum approach. Homefront comes to mind in so far as its SP. We need to give credit where credit is due to those games that do step outside of the norm and attempt to give players a differnet experience. This is why the bitching about Far Cry 2 drives me nuts because it went out of its way to be different and big.
Off topic to the above conversation...Crysis 2's design wasn't to try to consolize the game, it was just an engine tech demo so they could become a middleware supplier to more games who want to be like CoD or whatever. Everyone knows Cryengine can do jungles and forests and open areas. No one believed the tech was scaleable to a urban environment. You can count on one hand the amount of games that use an open environment that are released in a given year. Urban games are released by the dozens each year and many of them running on UE3.
They used the name recognition of Crysis to put this evidence into lots of peoples hands so game executives can look at the example that was set and weigh the options between UE3 and CE3 where prior to this they would always go to UE because the real money is not in making one game, it is licensing tech to dozens of games. The design was never to do with hardware not being capable of creating an open world game.
The Antitype
Banned
StevieP said:
I've played it. Disagree entirely. There are a multitude of games with superior single-player campaigns. Some use narrative and atmosphere to great affect, others have great set-piece design or dynamic AI that makes combat more intense and entertaining, some do their own thing entirely... and some can also be played co-op, thanks to the wonders of the internet.
Goldeneye Wii is a serviceable shooter held up by those who had pipe-dreams of the Wii being an FPS haven. It is a fun, solidly-made dose of nostalgia.
StevieP said:
The dual-analog control scheme has proven more than adequate for controlling first-person shooters. It is the Wii and the Move that are generally awkward or imprecise. Now granted, it isn't possible to move or aim as fast in an FPS with a controller as it is a mouse and keyboard, but console shooters have responded by adjusting their pacing. Would I play Quake 3 Arena on a console? Hell no. Is Halo every bit as good at what it sets out to do as Quake 3 was at what it set out for? Hell yes. And every bit as fun.
DerZuhälter
Member
Some things stay beautiful in our minds... until you revisit them.
Did so with Half-Life 1. Completly forgot about the floaty movement, the sometimes dull pacing, the jumping puzzles combined with floaty movement. It's a mess now.
OP should revisit his mentioned games.
Now, of course this doesn't means every game released these days is in every way superior to the old ones. If I think of art, level design or available weaponery I think a lot of oldies are way better than some new games. But these games also usualy contain certain elements to them that feel downright gamebreaking in comparison with the new stuff.
Did so with Half-Life 1. Completly forgot about the floaty movement, the sometimes dull pacing, the jumping puzzles combined with floaty movement. It's a mess now.
OP should revisit his mentioned games.
Now, of course this doesn't means every game released these days is in every way superior to the old ones. If I think of art, level design or available weaponery I think a lot of oldies are way better than some new games. But these games also usualy contain certain elements to them that feel downright gamebreaking in comparison with the new stuff.
Warm Machine said:
I'm not sure if you're responded to me in regards to Crysis 2 being limited by hardware, but I don't believe that, especially since there have been rumors of Crysis 1 receiving a console port. My problems with it are strictly design decisions that are mostly unrelated to hardware power. I'm a PC guy but I don't blame consoles for the shortcomings of modern FPS games, I blame the designers who limit their ambitions in an attempt to chase broad market appeal.
Agree on Far Cry 2, it had some issues but I had a damn good time with it.