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[Laguna]

How do you know that? Did you asked all the western PSP users?

I'm one of these 60+million PSP owners. I love this handheld, and I'm really happy with the 40 or 50 PSP games I own, and I'm interested in PSP2.

PSP has been the first handheld running games comparable graphic wise to modern home consoles when it was released (PS2 / Wii), featured tons of great games, both great new IPs and new titles of both classic and current best hardcore AAA home console IPs. In addition to this, it also gave me MP3 playback, movies playback, ocassional web browsing for rare situations and great homebrew and emulators. And demos & downloadable games directly to the console.

Now I want something comparable to 360/PS3 (but obviously inferior, like happened with PSP1 with its generation), with decent web browsing, apps like in iPhone / Android(specially Facebook, mail and GPS), full PSN features (trophies, chat, Home, etc), dual nubs, a good integrated camera, integrated mic for in-game voice chat, and faster loading times. And touch and motion sensor for menus UI and small mobile phone like games.

I'd pay 400€ for a handheld with all these features if it has the support from both 1st and 3rd party that PSP had, specially if it also has 3G support or better.

of course I don´t know how all PSP owners feel about it,
and of course there are people in love with that piece of hardware but it´s undeniable that interest for that platform decreased a lot after its first 2 years. Sales are really bad besides Japan especially software sales for peace walker and ghost of sparta and that´s a clear indication that interest collapsed and I really think it´s hard to convince those people again. But it´s also true that there are a lot of PSP fans that will buy the successor in an instant but I think it won´t be enough to reach PSPs sales in the same timeframe (before sales collapsed in the West).

 

[gofreak]

The PSP2 hasn´t been officially announced yet and so of course it´s a little to early to make an educated guess but I really can´t see PSP2 even doing the numbers PSP managed to do since the majority who purchased the system (with Japan beeing the exception) seem to don´t care about it anymore and I really don´t know how the same concept will get them interested for a successor. The most important advantage for many seems to be "better grafixx" but honestly since the PSX it doesn´t look like to be that important to most gamers don´t you think? Especially after the difference between DS and PSP thats more than obvious.

I'm not sure if the problem lies in concept or execution. Surely Nintendo's interest in the space is an endorsement for the concept if Sony's own interest isn't enough.

I'm not sure people outside Japan find the concept unattractive, but it was presented in an either/or way next to 'the new hotness' of touch-based gaming, and with spits and spats of support over its lifetime. I don't think those factors were as strong in Japan. It had a killer franchise there and fairly consistent strong domestic developer support. And I don't think Japanese people are so averse to the notion of dual system ownership. I'd say many many people own both a PSP and DS in Japan, whereas elsewhere many people probably chose between them...and again, though PSP's offering may have been attractive in its own way, in that situation you're going to pick what is yet more attractive, and touch-based gaming and the games growing up around that on DS were becoming extremely trendy and so for most people that was their preference. Some PSP owners in the west may indeed have moved on to DS and left their PSP's behind as the trend grew and compelling software became less consistent, and may not have looked back even as better software did emerge. Think how things may have been if PSP wasn't locked out from that trend - we may now instead be talking about how power and graphics made all the difference (positively).

So, I think Sony's sticking to its guns on that core concept, I think they do still believe in its potential, but I think they'll want to do it in a less compromised way. They'll want to try and turn the broader range of game types into a commodity so that it won't become as much of a negative differentiator in a choice between systems. That'll mean giving some attention and tipping their hat to other trends in the space. I'm not sure if they'll be notably successful - price & marketing vs the now huge DS brand would be key here and I don't know if they'll come up smelling of roses or not - but at least technically the platform should be better positioned so that they can perhaps push the concept without caveats this time.

 

[Laguna]

I'm not sure if the problem lies in concept or execution. Surely Nintendo's interest in the space is an endorsement for the concept if Sony's own interest isn't enough.

I'm not sure people outside Japan find the concept unattractive, but it was presented in an either/or way next to 'the new hotness' of touch-based gaming, and with spits and spats of support over its lifetime. I don't think those factors were as strong in Japan. It had a killer franchise there and fairly consistent strong domestic developer support. And I don't think Japanese people are so averse to the notion of dual system ownership. I'd say many many people own both a PSP and DS in Japan, whereas elsewhere many people probably chose between them...and again, though PSP's offering may have been attractive in its own way, in that situation you're going to pick what is yet more attractive, and touch-based gaming and the games growing up around that on DS were becoming extremely trendy and so for most people that was their preference. Some PSP owners in the west may indeed have moved on to DS and left their PSP's behind as the trend grew and compelling software became less consistent, and may not have looked back even as better software did emerge. Think how things may have been if PSP wasn't locked out from that trend - we may now instead be talking about how power and graphics made all the difference (positively).

So, I think Sony's sticking to its guns on that core concept, I think they do still believe in its potential, but I think they'll want to do it in a less compromised way. They'll want to try and turn the broader range of game types into a commodity so that it won't become as much of a negative differentiator in a choice between systems. That'll mean giving some attention and tipping their hat to other trends in the space. I'm not sure if they'll be notably successful - price & marketing vs the now huge DS brand would be key here and I don't know if they'll come up smelling of roses or not - but at least technically the platform should be better positioned so that they can perhaps push the concept without caveats this time.

When more of RE revelation got revealed you could see people thinking it was a new game for 360, of course taking a closer look the difference in power is more than obvious but it certainly surprised alot of people. The point is the PSP2 must be at least close to PS3 in grafic wise to make a notable difference especially for such tiny screens and it still wouldn´t be as obviouse as the difference between PSP and DS.

I also don´t understand how someone can argue that better grafics is a big advantage but one sentence later dismiss 3DSs 3D effect as pure gimmick. I really don´t understand the reason behind this. If grafics really are that important than Sony has to jump in or they´ll miss the train like they did last Gen with the gimmick called touchscreen.

 

[StuBurns]

I still think people are high when they talk about 3DS as impressive, PSP was a generation ago, and it doesn't look a generation better than that, which I'd still not be shocked by, it'd have to be notably better than a generational improvement over the PSP before I found it as shocking as most of GAF seem to.

I think it looks good, but hardly surprising.

I expect similar things from the PSP2, but assuming there's no 3D screen (which I still think would be an enormous mistake) it'll probably be higher resolution so look a little nicer in screenshots or vs 3DS's 2D mode.

 

[gofreak]

When more of RE revelation got revealed you could see people thinking it was a new game for 360, of course taking a closer look the difference in power is more than obvious but it certainly surprised alot of people. The point is the PSP2 must be at least close to PS3 in grafic wise to make a notable difference especially for such tiny screens and it still wouldn´t be as obviouse as the difference between PSP and DS.

That's a much more specific point than the one I responded to, in which I read you to question if the concept as a whole (of 'high power', console-in-your-hand stuff) was a worthwhile one.

Taking this point I agree, as Father_Brain said, they're coming into this space now, as he noted 'with a technical advantage of 3D'. I was merely noting that PSP2 might counter offer with a series of technical advantages relevant to these types of games.

I also don´t understand how someone can argue that better grafics is a big advantage but one sentence later dismiss 3DSs 3D effect as pure gimmick.

I did? I at most said that some other features may resonate more strongly with the consumer for this type of game. For example, for a given game of this type on both systems - let's say a GTA game - will players of this game prefer 3D? Or will they prefer dual-analog control, perhaps better rendering quality, perhaps a more robust online service? Saying the latter might be a stronger draw isn't to say 3D is a gimmick. 3D for me is an unknowable quantity right now. I'll have to spend some time with it, for all I know it may be a gimmick, or it may be a trump card.

What I do know however is...

I really don´t understand the reason behind this. If grafics really are that important than Sony has to jump in or they´ll miss the train like they did last Gen with the gimmick called touchscreen.

...that this isn't an apt comparison. 3D is a visual enhancement, not a control and game-changer (literally) in the way the touchpad was. The absence of a touchpad locked Sony out of swathes of content and a whole new audience of gamers. On the contrary, every 3D game can be played in 2D (and has to be on 3DS even). It's not the same kind of fundamental, content-changing/enabling facility. Secondly, it's the type of feature that could be retrofitted to future models of a PSP2 if it did become a huge deal. The touchpad couldn't, it would have split the audience. 3D could be added in a way that was transparent to non-3D models - people with early PSP2s could still play all games in 2D, with newer models playing them optionally in 2D or 3D. So I don't think there need be an urgency or threat comparable to leaving touch control on the table.

 

[BrokenEchelon]

I'm really curious to see how they'll hand digital distribution with the PSP2 after the PSP Go.

This time around the game library won't be fragmented and I think that was one of the issues people had with the Go being DD only.

I also really hope they don't try to build some draconian form of DRM into the software this time around in an attempt to curb piracy. I'd hate to be forced to connect to PSN before I could play my games on it or something akin to that.

 

[Opus Angelorum]

I also really hope they don't try to build some draconian form of DRM into the software this time around in an attempt to curb piracy. I'd hate to be forced to connect to PSN before I could play my games on it or something akin to that.

That's an absolute guarantee.

 

[supermackem]

That's an absolute guarantee.

And you cant really blame them given the way the psp was hacked and pirated to death.

 

[Opus Angelorum]

And you cant really blame them given the way the psp was hacked and pirated to death.

Absolutely. Anyone expecting the PSP2 to be as hackable as the original will be on suicide watch.

 

[Laguna]

GTA isn´t really such a great example imo, since a big part of its fanbase really isn´t the kind that is in love with Nintendos image in general even less than MGS fans and would prefer a GTA on a non-Nintendo platform either way. But the second "nub" is really getting hyped to death, of course it has its benefits but I doubt it will be in anyway as important to people as some want it to be. I don´t know why but I never read anything about 3DSs second screen from people who are hyping the secend nub so much, in my opinion the second screen has a lot more advantages, for example it´s really great for Ego-Shooters. Is there any reason for ignoring it so much?

 

[gofreak]

It'd be a shame if hacking concerns pulled them back from doing the obvious wrt the the Playstation Android marketplace :|

On a totally different note, talk of hope for TV-out functions made me wonder about the cameras on the machine. I wonder if it struck anyone at Sony to make one of them 640x480...at 60+hz...with a decent field of view...

 

[heringer]

Release dates: April 28th in Japan, June 8th in US, June 17th in Europe.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metal_Gear_Solid:_Peace_Walker
BTW we were talking about western gamers, and both his numbers and my numbers were until 30th June.
I don't remember the Japanese numbers. I'll try to google some old gaf Japan sales thread.


Edit:
Media Create May 31-June 6
07. / 07. [PSP] Metal Gear Solid: Peace Walker (Konami) - 14.262 / 711.838 (-44%)
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=397756
Other weeks of June was too low, so its numbers didn't appeared. So around 10K or less each week until the end of June.

If we consider 1M of the 1.27 MGS copies sold worldwide in the quarter ending 30th June are Peace Walker copies, and that it sold around 750K in Japan until 30th June, it means Peace Walker sold outside Japan at least 250K until 30th June. This in the 3 first NA weeks + first 2 EU weeks (both retail+bundled+PSN copies). A bit less than I thought, even I have been generous guessing non rated Japanese sales and non Peace Walker numbers to extrapolate the number.


It didn't disprove his numbers. His numbers were US retail non-bundled copies.

It lacked the US bundled copies, US PSN copies, other non-Japanese copies (Europe / EMEA mainly). So I only tried to offer a bigger portion of the picture including worldwide sales.

We were talking about Peace Walker 1st month sales as an example of western gamers forgetting the PSP.

PSP is pretty much dead in the west. Let it go.

 

[gofreak]

GTA isn´t really such a great example imo, since a big part of its fanbase really isn´t the kind that is in love with Nintendos image in general even less than MGS fans and would prefer a GTA on a non-Nintendo platform either way. But the second "nub" is really getting hyped to death, of course it has its benefits but I doubt it will be in anyway as important to people as some want it to be. I don´t know why but I never read anything about 3DSs second screen from people who are hyping the secend nub so much, in my opinion the second screen has a lot more advantages, for example it´s really great for Ego-Shooters. Is there any reason for ignoring it so much?

It can indeed be useful as a trackpad, but it's perhaps not very ideally set up for that kind of use. Using the bottom screen as a trackpad, you have simultaneous access to only one action button. That, I think, has limited its applicability on DS. People haven't viewed it as a substitute for a second analog in that context either because on DS there wasn't even a single analog to start with. On 3DS, it has that to build upon, but the other limitation about button access remains, and it will be slightly less ideal still, no longer being 1:1 with the main screen. In terms of a competitive advantage vs a twin-analog PSP2, it isn't really any advantage, since the PSP2 appears to have a more versatile trackpad solution in addition.

Re. the second nub, people have made a big deal out of it long before PSP2 was even a suggestion. And for good reason, it's become a standard. People have been crying out for Sony to add a second nub to the PSP for ages - going through wishlist threads for PSP2 it was probably the most popularly and most adamantly requested feature, many people going so far as to say that it would be an epic fail if Sony didn't include it. People aren't just puffing it up now because the PSP2 will have it and 3DS won't, it's been a long requested thing, so it doesn't surprise me if people are liking that in a PSP2.

 

[Laguna]

It can indeed be useful as a trackpad, but it's perhaps not very ideally set up for that kind of use. Using the bottom screen as a trackpad, you have simultaneous access to only one action button. That, I think, has limited its applicability on DS. People haven't viewed it as a substitute for a second analog in that context either because on DS there wasn't even a single analog to start with. On 3DS, it has that to build upon, but the other limitation about button access remains, and it will be slightly less ideal still, no longer being 1:1 with the main screen. In terms of a competitive advantage vs a twin-analog PSP2, it isn't really any advantage, since the PSP2 appears to have a more versatile trackpad solution in addition.

Re. the second nub, people have made a big deal out of it long before PSP2 was even a suggestion. And for good reason, it's become a standard. People have been crying out for Sony to add a second nub to the PSP for ages - going through wishlist threads for PSP2 it was probably the most popularly and most adamantly requested feature, many people going so far as to say that it would be an epic fail if Sony didn't include it. People aren't just puffing it up now because the PSP2 will have it and 3DS won't, it's been a long requested thing, so it doesn't surprise me if people are liking that in a PSP2.

Having played some Ego-Shooters on DS my conclusion is that it´s by far more precise and fast than a second analogstick and with a clever game design you don´t need many buttons to begin with (and in fact even most console Ego-Shooters don´t), Hunters is an eye-opener in this regard. But everyone actually playing DS knows that using the second screen as a "trackpad" isn´t the only benefit anyway a second "nub" alone just doesn´t cut it and isn´t that important in comparison imo. It has its benefits (e.g. you don´t need a "pen" and most gamers are used to it) and is useful but having a second screen is a largeley bigger advantage and without the slightest doubt offers even gameplay-wise more possibilities as a simple stick (it would be ridiculous to say otherwise) if you compare both systems, even if it gets ignored by "second-nub"-fans for whatever reason.

 

[Sipowicz]

I really dont think visuals are going to be relevant to handhelds this generation. My understanding is that there will be half a gen's difference between the 3DS/PSP2 at best. Compare that to the full generational leap beween the original DS and PSP and that's not that much. If the 3DS is the only system with the 3D screen the gulf in visual trickery is diminished further.

I do think Sony have a chance to be more successful than Nintendo. The back touchpad is the most innovative and useful addition to handhelds i've seen in a while. I also think that sony will have elarned from their mistakes this generation.

If the PSP2

-has online that isn't complete shit
-has an excellent store that matches consoles
-has a decent battery life
-has cartridges
-has a decent price
-has a good mix of psp staples, new ips and titles from sony's console teams
-has good controls

then yeah, it would pose a serious challenge to the 3DS. it would also put them in prime position for a phone/handheld hybrid in the future

 

[[Nintex]]

The only 'gap' for Sony to squeeze in is the old 'cheap' Gameboy spot. Launch a new system with a bunch of features for I dunno, $200. I'm sure that compared to 2005's PSP they could build an awesome device. But that's not the Sony way so they'll go for a $300 or $400 handheld. Nintendo even has the third party support now and a bunch of 'new' games. Sure the OOT and MGS remakes will make some people shit their pants but the real deal are a new Kingdom Hearts, a new Resident Evil, a new Mario, a new Layton etc.

The same old PSP strategy with console ports and whatnot isn't going to work. As far as new games go, will developers spend a lot of money to build exclusive expensive games for a PSP2. Sure, they'll get the COD's, Need for Speeds, granted that there is enough power in the PSP2 but other than that I don't think developers are waiting to add another piece of expensive hardware to their pipelines. I think we'll see less games on 3DS because of this reason as well and those smaller/cheaper games will become iphone apps or 3DSWare but with Nintendo's online history or lack there of they can't possibly win that fight.

 

[Vinterbird]

I still think people are high when they talk about 3DS as impressive, PSP was a generation ago, and it doesn't look a generation better than that, which I'd still not be shocked by, it'd have to be notably better than a generational improvement over the PSP before I found it as shocking as most of GAF seem to.

I think it looks good, but hardly surprising.

I expect similar things from the PSP2, but assuming there's no 3D screen (which I still think would be an enormous mistake) it'll probably be higher resolution so look a little nicer in screenshots or vs 3DS's 2D mode.

Seeing the 3DS in person makes a world of difference from screensots. Nintendogs + Cats, MGS3 and RE:R is very pretty to look at, and the 3D really makes it look amazing. Texture and polygon wise, it is not much better then a PSP, but the 3D makes a world of difference.

 

[tzare]

psp game development was more expensive than DS, that was a problem for sure, but now 3DS seems to target similar budget games as PSP does. So 3DS may face the same problems PSP had , or maybe having more than one console that can handle 'big' games will help developers to change their mind. Lately, at least in japan , psp is having tons of games that could be also suited for DS : more simple, 2d and so on.

I mean, developing Resident Evil for 3ds ain't cheap , and we will see if all publishers can afford to spend that amount of money for good looking 3dS games that justify the hardware and that are not possible on DS.

So while i see that psp2 will have a very hard rival with 3DS, to me it seems more fit as decent portable console that can handle home console games.

 

[Sipowicz]

The only 'gap' for Sony to squeeze in is the old 'cheap' Gameboy spot. Launch a new system with a bunch of features for I dunno, $200.

how about a really powerful system that gets your normal decent PSP titles, plus multiplatform games and a bunch of exclusives from small teams within traditional first/second party home console devs

built for practically above all else with two analogues and a touchpad that can be used alongside the controls on the front. An excellent online system and online store

if it gets games like bayonetta it'll be good for me as they dont come out on PC. it'll be the only place you can play shooters well on handhelds (and they play better than consoles to boot). it'll allow you to play real time strategy games and maybe even a few diablo style rpgs.

 

[gofreak]

Having played some Ego-Shooters on DS my conclusion is that it´s by far more precise and fast than a second analogstick and with a clever game design you don´t need many buttons to begin with (and in fact even most console Ego-Shooters don´t), Hunters is an eye-opener in this regard. But everyone actually playing DS knows that using the second screen as a "trackpad" isn´t the only benefit anyway a second "nub" alone just doesn´t cut it and isn´t that important in comparison imo. It has its benefits (e.g. you don´t need a "pen" and most gamers are used to it) and is useful but having a second screen is a largeley bigger advantage and without the slightest doubt offers even gameplay-wise more possibilities as a simple stick (it would be ridiculous to say otherwise) if you compare both systems, even if it gets ignored by "second-nub"-fans for whatever reason.

For FPS and perhaps some other genres, you're preaching to the choir here re. the potential of trackpads I think indeed they could be much more intuitive and more precise perhaps too than a analog stick.

However, I don't know if 'clever game design' would be enough in the eyes of many devs to use the second screen on DS in that way. Most games like this need simultaneously access to at least two buttons, if not 3 perhaps e.g. fire, reload and aim are common. We'll see if it becomes a popular surrogate there for a second stick or not.

As for the benefits of the second screen outside of touch and trackpad potential, I honestly don't see much there to be excited about. Purely as a secondary display it has not been used in very many exciting ways. Most games just stick menus or inventory or maps or whatever on there and that's that, and it often seems rather superfluous imo. I certainly wouldn't choose a secondary visual-out like that over a second analog or whatever, from a utility point of view. I think Sony would get laughed off if they made a choice like that for a future system.

The only 'gap' for Sony to squeeze in is the old 'cheap' Gameboy spot.

I think people are too anxious to find some space Sony can go play in without competition. Historically Sony has always done better when they're in more open, level-playing-field competition than when they're in their own little bubble.

 

[Sipowicz]

I think people are too anxious to find some space Sony can go play in without competition. Historically Sony has always done better when they're in more open, level-playing-field competition than when they're in their own little bubble.

i dont think that's a good thing for handhelds. look at the iphone and ds, when they came out they were pretty fucking unique

if sony released a dual screen handheld with 3D called the 3PS they'd be crucified and rightly so. the best thing is for them to do their own thing and implement the new technologies and features they want

 

[gofreak]

i dont think that's a good thing for handhelds. look at the iphone and ds, when they came out they were pretty fucking unique

Precisely, and it hurt Sony.

Sony's always come a cropper of Nintendo when Nintendo's gone way out, and zagged where Sony zigged, if you get my drift.

i.e. DS, Wii

They have always done better in more 'level' open competition when they were both pursuing similar classes of content and similar markets (and when Sony didn't f-ck up on pricing ).

if sony released a dual screen handheld with 3D called the 3PS they'd be crucified and rightly so. the best thing is for them to do their own thing and implement the new technologies and features they want

I think they are doing so, but they're wisely acknowledging changes in the market since. The net result of that, and of Nintendo's strategy, is that they're both converging on similar all-encompassing approaches. People are freaking out and wondering how Sony can possibly compete given that, but I think as long as they keep the price competitive, as long as the marketing is good, and as long as the content coverage is comprehensive, then they'll probably be a lot less nervous about this setup than some of us are (and a lot less nervous than they probably were once the touch-based gaming trend solidified back with PSP/DS).

 

[yurinka]

-has online that isn't complete shit

I played a lot online in Wipeout Pulse in PSP1. It worked flawlessly, so I think it would be the same in PSP2. I agree more games need on-line, but in case of portables I would use it more in online leaderboards and similar more than in multiplayer.

-has an excellent store that matches consoles

The PSP PSN store had ton of demos, games and movies. I agree it would be cool to have more little games like Minis or iPhone games, and to have more apps. I think they are going to improve that in PSP2.

-has a decent battery life

People complained about it in PSP1 (including me), but right now it's ok for me, because it has enough battery to go from work to home several days (it's where I use it).

-has cartridges

As I remember PSP2 it's going to have both games in memory sticks (like DS) and PSN games (like PSP).

-has a decent price

I bet the price it's going to be between $349 and $399 at launch. Maybe even more if it's a tech beast or include phone capabilities. I think this is the main point where Sony is going to fuck it up.

People will troll the PSP2 because of the price, even if it's 2x as powerful as an iPhone 4 and has its same price.

-has a good mix of psp staples, new ips and titles from sony's console teams

Coming from Sony, I think it's pretty confirmed.

-has good controls

I think they were pretty good in PSP. Adding touchpad, and improved analog (now with dual) I think it's going to be flawless.

 

[get2sammyb]

Just putting this out there: does anybody think trophy support will affect PSP2 software sales? I know its a niche minority out there, but I feel like there's a solid foundation of people who consider trophies a core basis of purchasing intent.

No matter how small, I feel like trophy support and good integration with the PlayStation 3/Network user profile would go some way towards improving PSP2 software sales. And particularly in a multiplatform basis.

If that 3DS Resident Evil came out on PSP2 alongside Nintendo's system, surely there would be a hypothetical argument for the PSP2's "improved" visuals and integration into PS3 owner's trophy count. I know it would make me opt for the PSP2 version of the game personally, in a similar fashion to the way in which launch XBOX 360 owners prefer to play multiplatform games on their 360 for the achievements they're already invested into.

 

[spats]

I think trophies and deeper psn integration are a given. If it's the same psn 0.5 like in the psp I'll be very surprised.

 

[Gamecocks625]

Well, it looks like Q Entertainment is cooking up a new PSP version of Lumines. I wonder if it would be a PSP2 launch title?

@Q_Entertainment you need to release it on PSN for PSP, even if it means making a new version

@jonnyram Oh, just you wait.

 

[spats]

Well, it looks like Q Entertainment is cooking up a new PSP version of Lumines. I wonder if it would be a PSP2 launch title?

Lumin3Ds

 

[yurinka]

Just putting this out there: does anybody think trophy support will affect PSP2 software sales? I know its a niche minority out there, but I feel like there's a solid foundation of people who consider trophies a core basis of purchasing intent.

No matter how small, I feel like trophy support and good integration with the PlayStation 3/Network user profile would go some way towards improving PSP2 software sales. And particularly in a multiplatform basis.

If that 3DS Resident Evil came out on PSP2 alongside Nintendo's system, surely there would be a hypothetical argument for the PSP2's "improved" visuals and integration into PS3 owner's trophy count. I know it would make me opt for the PSP2 version of the game personally, in a similar fashion to the way in which launch XBOX 360 owners prefer to play multiplatform games on their 360 for the achievements they're already invested into.

But from the experience in PS3 vs 360 multiplat. games, I remember some hardcore gamers purchasing the 360 version only due to achievents, because back in the time the PS3 didn't have them.

I'm pretty sure PSP2 is going to have trophies. So it may happen again.

But I think the hardore gamers who really care about trophies is too small. So it wouldn't be a huge deal.

Well, it looks like Q Entertainment is cooking up a new PSP version of Lumines. I wonder if it would be a PSP2 launch title?

PSP1, please. But it would mean my first PSP2 game.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgDrJ5Z2rKw

 

[Sydle]

As far as graphics are concerned, the PSP 2 is a beast, packing enough processing hardware to produce graphics comparable to early PlayStation 3 titles. The processor, we're told, is just over half as powerful as the PS3, though the specific framework of the cores and the clock speed was not revealed.

While the device isn't as powerful as the PlayStation 3, its components should allow it to sufficiently play games of comparable graphical quality due to the fact that it is rendering to a smaller, lower-resolution display than a full 1080p HDTV.

All things considered, it seems that Sony aims to allow developers to port or custom-tailor PlayStation 3 titles for use on the handheld, potentially to create a ubiquitous gameplay experience that could sync seamlessly between the console and the handheld. In other words, players could potentially start games on their PlayStation 3 and continue them on-the-go with the PSP 2.

This worries me -- indicates Sony still believes I want big console experiences in a portable game. It seemed like a good idea for the PSP and then I bought one only to realize that I don't care for it. Not looking good to me right now, but maybe all the touch-screen functionality will be put to good, unique use and I'll change my mind.

 

[yurinka]

This worries me -- indicates Sony still believes I want big console experiences in a portable game.

Nintendo also thinks it, 3DS specs and announced games proves it.

 

[TheChewyWaffles]

Seeing the 3DS in person makes a world of difference from screensots. Nintendogs + Cats, MGS3 and RE:R is very pretty to look at, and the 3D really makes it look amazing. Texture and polygon wise, it is not much better then a PSP, but the 3D makes a world of difference.

Very disappointing. Who keeps saying that the 3DS "starts the next generation"? My contention is that it's an incremental upgrade from the DSi and the fact that it doesn't look much better than a PSP (which was launched in 2005, right?) only confirms this.

 

[jonnybryce]

Nintendo also thinks it, 3DS specs and announced games proves it.

The power of the 3DS surprised me more than anything. With Nintendo I expected it to be weaker and thus cheaper than what it will end up being.

I do want console experiences on a handheld. I appreciate lighter or unique handheld games but I want big experiences and genres - I just don't want soulless, ugly, poorly controlled console ports like mant PS2->PSP early day titles.

 

[yurinka]

I just don't want soulless, ugly, poorly controlled console ports like mant PS2->PSP early day titles.

Same happened with 3DS/DS/GBA.

The difference is their games instead of PS2 games are SNES and N64 games.

All consoles (not only portables) have their small portion of the catalogue being cheat ports, specially at the start. PSP wan't an exception, it was just to the trolls touting it too much.

Same happens with shovelware, all consoles get their ration.

 

[gofreak]

There's nothing wrong with 'console-esque' capabilities in handheld, the key is to ensure your games are crafted for a handheld context, and not naive do-overs of games intended for a home system context. Port-me-downs of home console games that aren't so suited to handheld/portable play won't help, so I hope where games and franchises are brought to these systems it's done so in a way that's sensitive to the context and doesn't highlight glaring omissions in controls or the like (as was the case with PSP and its single nub - PSP2 shouldn't have that problem so much at least).

I think it also helps when a handheld system offers some unique capability over your home system. PSP didn't, other than its portability. DS did. So I'm happy PSP2 will offer something of distinction too vs its home counterpart.

 

[Man]

This worries me -- indicates Sony still believes I want big console experiences in a portable game. It seemed like a good idea for the PSP and then I bought one only to realize that I don't care for it. Not looking good to me right now, but maybe all the touch-screen functionality will be put to good, unique use and I'll change my mind.

I'm hoping more for high-res and high-framerates.
Sony can't prevent devs from outclassing other entries by ways of large budgets.

 

[yurinka]

There's nothing wrong with 'console-esque' capabilities in handheld, the key is to ensure your games are crafted for a handheld context, and not naive do-overs of games intended for a home system context. Port-me-downs of home console games that aren't so suited to handheld/portable play won't help, so I hope where games and franchises are brought to these systems it's done so in a way that's sensitive to the context and doesn't highlight glaring omissions in controls or the like (as was the case with PSP and its single nub - PSP2 shouldn't have that problem so much at least).

I think it also helps when a handheld system offers some unique capability over your home system. PSP didn't, other than its portability. DS did. So I'm happy PSP2 will offer something of distinction too vs its home counterpart.

Nobody thinks 'console-esque' in portables are a good idea.

The only people who complained about them in PSP were the Nintendo fanboys who were trolling the PSP. But seeing their reactions to see proper 'console-esque' games in 3DS, now it's also good idea for them.

The only problem with 'console-esque' games in portables is that they were in a Sony console only.

 

[Sipowicz]

I think they are doing so, but they're wisely acknowledging changes in the market since. The net result of that, and of Nintendo's strategy, is that they're both converging on similar all-encompassing approaches. People are freaking out and wondering how Sony can possibly compete given that, but I think as long as they keep the price competitive, as long as the marketing is good, and as long as the content coverage is comprehensive, then they'll probably be a lot less nervous about this setup than some of us are (and a lot less nervous than they probably were once the touch-based gaming trend solidified back with PSP/DS).

yeah i get what you mean. they seem to be acknowledgin the needs of the market while still doing thier own thing

for me sony is at their best when they offer amazing technology and practicality at a reasonable price. and there's no harm in perfecting what others have done in the past, look at the practicality of the dual shock. for me the back touch screen has the potential to be the dual shock of touch screens, in that it's actually useful for a lot of games and you can use it at the same time as buttons. and of course there's already a dual analogue layut which no other handheld offers

in terms of technology sony could 1up nintendo with online stuff. they'll have to use cartridges seeing as it's handhelds.but they could have a persistent steam style store which allows yu to play games you own any time even if you dont have the cartridge. they could also have a superior selection of downloadable games including all the ps1 classics

they are also in a much better position than nintendo for online gaming, an area in whic the PSP1 was a fucking travesty. there's like three games you can play online natively and two of them require you to sign up for an extra login. but wait! if you want to play more than three games online you can buy a fucking PS3.that's right, drop a few hundred quid on a home console so you can play handheld games online

 

[LiquidMetal14]

Nobody thinks 'console-esque' in portables are a good idea.

The only people who complained about them in PSP were the Nintendo fanboys who were trolling the PSP. But seeing their reactions to see proper 'console-esque' games in 3DS, now it's also good idea for them.

The only problem with 'console-esque' games in portables is that they were in a Sony console only.

I'll take the power to run those games and the more interesting apps than not. It's not about the games these days but the versatility of said device. This is why the PSP2 seems more interesting to me at this point that the 3DS. Even if we are still guessing and piecing things together for the PSP. I will be there on day 1 for the 3DS of course but unfortunately there is lots of ports and fluff in the beggining which I really hate.

 

[Sipowicz]

Nobody thinks 'console-esque' in portables are a good idea.

The only people who complained about them in PSP were the Nintendo fanboys who were trolling the PSP. But seeing their reactions to see proper 'console-esque' games in 3DS, now it's also good idea for them.

The only problem with 'console-esque' games in portables is that they were in a Sony console only.

no. there was a problem. but it was not 'console-esque' games

the problem was uglier, shittier retreads that were inferior to the original games. the problem was crap entries in decent franchises often made by b-rate teams. the problem was multiplaform games or bad ports of games that weren't made for the fucking psp and so were given wholly unsuitable control schemes and "features" like slowdown

dark mirror could be classes as a 'console-esque' game, so could peacewalker. both games are some of the best this gen

 

[gofreak]

The only problem with 'console-esque' games in portables is that they were in a Sony console only.

There are, for some, issues about distinction from what they can play on their home system though.

Some people don't buy portables for their portability. They just play them at home. So they could play a certain game on their home system, or on a handheld. If your handheld is host to games that are very like your home system games but don't look or control as well, then that system may be unattractive.

Nintendo, I think, understood that in a very dramatic way with DS. Sony banked on people actually needing portability and thus not caring about comparison to home consoles. And, in fairness, there are many people who do actually value portability, and who do appreciate this style of handheld capability. But there are some who aren't, and who can pick and choose between home and handheld.

I'm sure some people hopped on this for the sake of trolling. And indeed it would be hilarious if anyone was simultaneously creaming their jeans over 3DS games like RE or whatever, while expressing concern about PSP2 and 'console style games' (but I don't know if anyone actually has). But underneath all that I think there was a valid issue. Not even so much a complaint - I'm hardly going to complain that the Playstation Portable is not for me if I don't need portability. But for Sony there is a missed opportunity to attract people beyond the 'I need a portable playstation' crowd.

Like, I honestly had little interest in playing certain games on PSP, particularly post-PS3. I can see they're probably great games, and I can see how people like them, but there are MANY great games out there vying for my time, and any compromise inherent on the PSP for me is likely to lead me away from that option. But on PSP2, if games are making interesting use of its unique features then I think it could be quite different for me this time around. I would probably never play a Killzone game on PSP, but if that rear trackpad works out like I think, I could be all over a Killzone game on PSP2. I have potential reasons to be interested even put against other options on other systems that wasn't so much there on PSP.

 

[longdi]

With some many portables in this day and age, does anyone outside the MH JPN crowd cares enough for a PSP2, and one that has such awkward back touchpad?

 

[jay]

Nobody thinks 'console-esque' in portables are a good idea.

The only people who complained about them in PSP were the Nintendo fanboys who were trolling the PSP. But seeing their reactions to see proper 'console-esque' games in 3DS, now it's also good idea for them.

The only problem with 'console-esque' games in portables is that they were in a Sony console only.

So the market overall didn't weigh in on this? Is everyone a secret Nintendo fanboy or is there some other reason people outside of Japan don't want a PSP? Seems like the system has a bunch of awesome niche stuff but the big sellers, the games that would attract most average users, are mostly console style games. And they failed to attract average users.

 

[plagiarize]

Very disappointing. Who keeps saying that the 3DS "starts the next generation"? My contention is that it's an incremental upgrade from the DSi and the fact that it doesn't look much better than a PSP (which was launched in 2005, right?) only confirms this.

if you're reduced to selectively bolding an element of a post praising how much better the 3DS looks, you should probably throw in the towel.

as far as home console style games on a handheld, i do honestly think that some are better suited than others, but like go freak says, the PSPs big problem was that it only offered technically inferior games (once the PS3 came out anyways) to people that didn't desire the portable side of things.

the DS was a better designed portable AND it offered something that your console hooked up to your TV didn't should portability not interest you. the 3DS looks to be something similar (unless you have a 3DTV already).

i like the idea of the PSP2 as a hybrid thing like the GO. a portable console AND a home console. if it outputs 720p i can play a PSP2 game at home with all the comfort of any other console game, and then when i want to take the thing on the road i can just pull it from the cradle.

the issue wasn't that portable versions of home consoles are a bad idea, the issue was that Sony helped create the perception that that was all the PSP offered. if you wanted GT on the go, then yeah, the PSP was awesome, but if you didn''t, GT mobile was just an inferior looking, inferior controlling racing game.

i'm sure Sony have learnt this lesson.

 

[gofreak]

With some many portables in this day and age, does anyone outside the MH JPN crowd cares enough for a PSP2, and one that has such awkward back touchpad?

I think the first question is an interesting one, but an open one. We could argue all day about it, but we'll have to wait and see what impact the current mobile context might have on the market for dedicated machines (and thus for PSP2 and its role in that market).

On the latter point though - what makes you think the touchpad is awkward?

 

[longdi]

I think the first question is an interesting one, but an open one. We could argue all day about it, but we'll have to wait and see what impact the current mobile context might have on the market for dedicated machines (and thus for PSP2 and its role in that market).

On the latter point though - what makes you think the touchpad is awkward?

I think my brains will have to work opposite if the touchpad is behind and it is also hard to use regular multitouch gestures. I think it may only work as additional buttons but this will make holding psp2 precarious.

 

[yurinka]

no. there was a problem. but it was not 'console-esque' games

the problem was uglier, shittier retreads that were inferior to the original games. the problem was crap entries in decent franchises often made by b-rate teams. the problem was multiplaform games or bad ports of games that weren't made for the fucking psp and so were given wholly unsuitable control schemes and "features" like slowdown

dark mirror could be classes as a 'console-esque' game, so could peacewalker. both games are some of the best this gen

Ignoring new IPs, almost every other main console genre had a number of new entries or remakes of most of their main IPs perfectly adapted to PSP, resulting in really awesome games (instead of cheap ports):
Wipeout, Ridge Racer, Monster Hunter, Ghouls & Ghosts, God of War, Burnout, Mega Man, Little Big Planet, Castlevania, Final Fantasy, GTA, Tekken, Killzone, Afterburner, Motorstorm are just some other examples that I remember right now.

There are some GAF threads with long lists to prove that, including some other genres I ignored because I don't like it like sports or RPGs.

About controls, IMO the only genre that generally wasn't properly adapted were the shooters (both 1st and 3rd person shooters) because they needed a second nub to have proper controls. Only some shooters handled it properly, the ones that doesn't needed constant camera changes, or let you to aim slowly.

And besides that, obviously there are a lot of bad games, like in every other platform.

I think my brains will have to work opposite if the touchpad is behind and it is also hard to use regular multitouch gestures. I think it may only work as additional buttons but this will make holding psp2 precarious.

Being in the back solves the main problem of the touchscreens: you hide part of the screen (so possible enemies coming or new items) when using it.

I also think in-game in this case it will be used for secondary actions to replace L2, R2, L3 or R3 (like to reload, switch weapons or something like that). So in this context would work great work multitouch since you would use left or right side as buttons.

But for typical multitouch actions like to zoom, rotate etc, I agree, I doubt it would work well.

 

[gofreak]

I think my brains will have to work opposite if the touchpad is behind and it is also hard to use regular multitouch gestures. I think it may only work as additional buttons but this will make holding psp2 precarious.

I don't think this is a difficult abstraction. Hold a ipod or something and with a finger on the back move it left over the surface. If you moved in the right direction you can handle this...your brain doesn't have to work 'backwards' to do that

In terms of hold, I think freeing up your index and/or middle finger for the back is the specific reason for the apparently odd layout with the face buttons on the lower right rather than in the normal position. If you grasp something like this from the lower right it gives your fingers around the back much more dexterity compared to a more normal grasp - but that requires the buttons to be moved from their normal position to be comfortably under your thumb. And that's exactly what they've done here.

I think a case of it making sense once you try it, perhaps.

 

[longdi]

I expect to see Apple and MS competing for mobile gaming in the future with iGame and Xboxy, so PSP2 market is getting even more marginalized so Sony better have something innovative to show for the PSP2.

 

[yurinka]

I expect to see Apple and MS competing for mobile gaming in the future with iGame and Xboxy, so PSP2 market is getting even more marginalized so Sony better have something innovative to show for the PSP2.

Well, Kin and Windows Mobile 7 are epic fails compared to Sony Ericsson or PSP. Same happened with Pippin.

But iOS devices soon is going to have the same userbase than PSP, if they didn't matched it recently.

iPhone sales are growing and soon will match Sony Ericsson yearly sales (because in LTD they are still far, far behind).

 

[Lonely1]

GTA isn´t really such a great example imo, since a big part of its fanbase really isn´t the kind that is in love with Nintendos image in general even less than MGS fans and would prefer a GTA on a non-Nintendo platform either way. But the second "nub" is really getting hyped to death, of course it has its benefits but I doubt it will be in anyway as important to people as some want it to be. I don´t know why but I never read anything about 3DSs second screen from people who are hyping the secend nub so much, in my opinion the second screen has a lot more advantages, for example it´s really great for Ego-Shooters. Is there any reason for ignoring it so much?

You are overstating the importance of System warriors.