A Twisty Fluken
Member
yurinka said:
FYI,
unsurprisingly
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Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!
First pics of current PSP2 DevKit [Update: Large Update In OP]
- Thread starter StealthGoblin
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FYI,
H_Prestige
Banned
plagiarize said:
This
jonnybryce
Member
Politics would probably kill that idea. A handheld that acts like a home console has potential to cannibalize PS3 sales and potential is all it takes to scare the decision makers.
jonnybryce
Member
gofreak said:
Yeah, the Go doesn't have (rumored) PS3 quality graphics, nor does it pump out 720p.
CamHostage
Member
jonnybryce said:
I'm not sure that this is as huge a problem as you're saying, though. Sony doesn't really care about how much hardware they sell necessarily, they only care how many PlayStation consumers they have. (Hardware is often sold at a loss, though that's really just initially and the hardware itself is still part of the business.) The market is changing, and has already changed a whole load since before DS and PSP, when game makers would quickly hash out sidescrollers and Mario Kart clones for the Game Boy crowd to capitalize on their big home console release and hope that dumb kids bought both SKUs. Today, there are six major platforms (3 consoles, 2 portables, and PC) plus multitudes of options for wireless and home entertainment system and all of that. And on top of that, there are plenty of options for renting software or playing games for free (there's also only so much to stop those determined to pirate.) Software publishers count themselves as lucky if you buy one of their games, they're not counting on you to buy a Madden for at home and then another for on the road. Yes, they would like to make their franchises pay off with multiple purchases (thus the PSP and DS spin-offs) but they know it's not realistic to expect franchise collectors to buy blindly.
Microsoft is already looking into the cross-platform market with its Windows 7 Phone line, and Apple has this locked up real well with iPhone/iPad devices (pay a little more for the HD upgrade and you're done in a lot of cases, hopefully moreso as the platform develops.) Sony is not yet where it could be in this avenue, but they've been experimenting for years with game releases that play on both of its platforms with PSP Minis and PS1 Classics. That's a little different from TV-out (the console market is still an important battleground) but I don't think a lot of gamers are buying PSP but no PS3; and if that crowd does develop, I don't see why Sony would be hurt when it's still their PlayStation platform that people are playing. As long as royalties roll their way and the customers buy their software, they're in good shape. With the struggles that PSP1 has had despite its power and great software line-up (taking nothing away from DS, this should have been a less one-sided fight,) I can't imagine Sony being angry if PSP2 managed to become a dominant platform if that put them back at the top of the heap.
H_Prestige
Banned
jonnybryce said:
Doesn't make a difference. The Go can still act like a home console. It does everything a home console needs to do: outputs video to external display and syncs with controller.
And if the psp2 starts eating away ps3 or ps4 sales, what does it matter to Sony. They own all the platforms anyway. They're still getting their money, much more money than they would get if the psp2 lacked video out.
H_Prestige said:
Yeah, but PSP and PS3 are quite complementary in the sense that you wouldn't pick up a PSP over a PS3 really.
Now, I don't think a PSP2 will actually output in HD, but I do think they might worry enough about cannibalisation to drop video-out.
It would be a shame though. I don't think there'd be a huge risk, and I think you could do some cool things. A standard TV mode for all games that allowed you to use the dualshock would be welcome. Touch controls could be remapped to a Move controller even. Indeed, I think support for local multiplayer in touch based games using move controllers and on a TV would be a sweet bonus. That's why I was wondering about the cameras on the system...if they make them 60hz it would at least leave that possibility open.
charlequin
Banned
Sipowicz said:
Right. I would say offhand that from Yurinka's list:
Yurinka said:
that meaningfully applies at least somewhat to Ridge Racer, LBP, GTA, Tekken, Killzone, and Motorstorm. (Plus quite a few other less ambiguous Sony first-party titles.) Though again, I'd add Syphon Filter to the "good" list.
I actually think there's a good bit of value in "console-esque" games for a portable system (as long as they're designed with some consideration of portability in mind) but not a lot for bite-sized versions of console franchises that are essentially the same game but just less of it.
gofreak said:
That would be very foolish, IMO.
jonnybryce
Member
CamHostage said:
That's true. I'm a marketing guy so I often over think things. I'm looking at the angle of "we could sell people a PS3 and a PSP2 vs them buying PSP2 and deciding that's good enough" in a time of slowing sales. You're seeing more of "They're buying a Sony product so we're still getting their money." That makes sense, too.
Of course it doesn't have to be either or, gamers can want a PS3 and a PSP2 that they can play on a big screen while at home. I would want both. I'm not convinced of anything and hope my scenario is incorrect but I wouldn't be shocked if GAF's 720p dream remains a dream.
H_Prestige
Banned
gofreak said:
If that is true, then why wouldn't it also be true regarding the PSP2?
The PS3 will still do many things the PSP2 can't and will still play many popular games the PSP2 won't have.
speculawyer
Member
Just wanna throw in that this the PSP2 interests me way more than anything the 3DS has to offer. Feed my inner graphics whore!
H_Prestige said:
Yeah, but I mean if you're looking for 'a home system' you wouldn't pick a PSP over a PS3. You might buy a PSP and then buy a PS3 if you want a home system.
If you get a PSP with TV-out, there may be a logic that 'oh, I don't need a PS2'. Or that you'll make do with the PSP. Ditto perhaps for a PSP2/PS3.
I don't know, I'm not saying I agree with the logic, I just think it may be something they're taking into consideration when deciding if PSP2 will have tv-out (from the start at least).
No, both the console and the handheld platforms will have their exclusives that will attract the buyer.gofreak said:
Removing a function from your handheld so that the PS3/4 remains the only PS system with tv-out is just something Sony would do though. :lol
What's wrong with that? PSP2 is still Sony's system and money that would be spent on the PS3 will be spent on the PSP2 since it will be their 'home system'.gofreak said:
charlequin said:
I have no problems with the same game but less of it. For instance, I enjoyed the GTA IV episodes on consoles and they were just the same game but less of it. Some might say even better.
The only thing that doesn't really work on a portable IMO are inferior ports. Porting a PS2 or PS3 game to a PSP? Only works for very few genres. A N64 game on DS? Screw you Nintendo, I'm not playing Mario 64 on a d-pad.
And speaking of Nintendo, I've been playing console-esque games on handhelds since the Gameboy. I don't get what all the fuss is about when it comes to the PSP.
yurinka said:
I think it's particularly a problem with the PSP. There is a perception of "lol watered down ports" and while it's unfair, it does come from somewhere.
both gofreak and charlequin have hit the nail on the head, and charlequin gave some good examples in his post. little big planet is just a shitter version of the PS3 game with stuff taken out, GT portable is just a shit gran turismo with no career mode.
I mentioned earlier that the PSP2 should have "a good mix of psp staples, new ips and titles from sony's console teams" which you thought was guaranteed because it's sony.
it's not. although we've had the likes of syphon filter and loco roco this gen. we've also had all the watered down shit i was talking about, and sony are arguably the worst offender
sony need to get the likes of media molecule, sucker punch and incognito forming small teams and working on psp games. the games being produced need to be unique, amazing quality and well suited to handhelds. this is regardless of whether they're new ip's or not
instead of giving us shitter versions of the same game with less stuff in Sony (and third parties) need to make stuff that has just as much content and value, but is also different from their console games with gameplay that is well suited to handheld play. they need to start treating their handheld customers like they matter.
charlequin
Banned
Massa said:
And if the broader market agreed with you, this would be a good business strategy to build a handheld platform off of -- but generally speaking, this strategy was pretty unsuccessful for Sony. Out of the first-party console franchises that they released a PSP entry for while continuing to support with high-profile retail console titles, only God of War was a success for Sony, I would argue in large part because only God of War was actually comparable in polish and content to a "real" franchise entry (and it probably didn't hurt that GoW3 wasn't out to compare it to yet.)
For me, console-esque games aren't a problem as long as they're designed for the technical considerations of a handheld (see: the Syphon Filters, Wipeouts, God of Wars, and FFs for PSP.) I'm all for a PSP2 that plays games of types, genres, and scopes that would appear on a console, I'm just opposed to the "A-team does a AAA franchise entry on console, B-team does a B-level franchise entry on PSP" strategy that applied to too many of Sony's franchises last time around.
Sipowicz said:
Right. A new IP from MediaMolecule for PSP2 would be rad. Sucker Punch doing something like, say, reviving Sly Cooper on PSP2 while developing InFamous on PS3 would be awesome.
The real challenge here is that Sony has a finite number of high-quality studios, PS3 games are time-consuming to make, and because PS3 is really heavily leaning on its first-party games to prop it up, it's difficult to split the attention of these teams and support both systems. If you have a really strong third-party ecosystem, you can afford to just leave your more successful system out in the cold first-party wise (like Nintendo did in 2010 with the DS) but if you don't, juggling two platforms is very challenging.
charlequin
Banned
teiresias said:
charlequin said:
Right. I pretty much agree with you but I think the limiting factor for a lot of franchises on PSP were simply the hardware and controls just not being there, which lead to the B-team having to build a lot of systems themselves. In some cases all you'd end up from the original was the name, so the B-grade quality was clearly there.
For example take Assassin's Creed game on PSP, a game I didn't have a lot of fun with. That was a game in which a B-team had to build everything from the ground up and it clearly shows. If you had asked that same team to build an AC spin-off on PS3/360, using systems and assets from previous AC games I think the end result would have been much better.
Another example is Treyarch, which nowadays is considered a top tier studio but the work they're best known for is taking a formula and executing it well. Because they didn't have to change too much just to get their games running they were able to even outdo the originals in some areas.
charlequin
Banned
Massa said:
Yeah, that's a pretty good example, and I think your point about how it's harder for a B-team to rebuild things from scratch than it is to do a spinoff with all the tools in place is a good one.
CamHostage
Member
jonnybryce said:
Sony definitely wants them to own both, but I believe (at least, I hope) that they want the differentiator to be the possibilities of game design that each piece of hardware affords. If a game is meant to be played by a family on a couch with their arms swinging about for motion control, then it's a PS3 game. If a game is meant to be played by running about town to geocache points or interacting with people on the street who have on their wireless beeper (it might pass, but my favorite 3DS feature so far is the new version of Bark mode, I love that you can just quarter-up in SF IV and strangers can challenge you.) Those are the features that they'll be using to sell you hardware. If all they're doing is selling you another Lego Star Wars, go ahead and play it at home and then take it with you on the bus, so long as you bought that PlayStation-branded copy that you're plugging in.
I've never seen a study on how sales go for something like Black Ops or Goldeneye on DS. My thinking is that even though both of those are fairly different games (Black Ops moreso, this is actually the first DS Call of Duty to not have a special subtitle isn't it?) they are selling to different people rather than doubling up franchise sales. But I don't know for sure.
And do games like Assassin's Creed: Altaire's Chronicles sell better because they say right on the box that they're different games from the main console game, or does that not matter? (Or do they sell worse because people are stupid and only want the "real" game even though DS couldn't do it?)
Does it help if you give your console spin-off space between franchise releases, like the PSP Metal Gears or GoWs?
...I'm not sure we're getting enough evidence of how portable gaming trends are going, I'd really like to know more but all we have to go by is fuzzy sales statistics and new product announcements.
CamHostage
Member
charlequin said:
Personally, I feel that the old mindset of portables being a secondary system for when you can't play your home system, that's still a huge hurdle. The industry suffers from it, and the fanbase suffers from it. I don't know if there's a cure for it... the top games are still being made with only consoles in mind, but with handhelds coming into their own technologically and with a strong audience for portable gaming, why are MGS Peace Walker and DQIX among the few exceptions to have AAA developers bringing canon-fronting productions to portables? Is it the game producers or the game buyers who are putting consoles above portables 99.95% of the time, or are both a bit at fault?
I've swapped my habits quite a bit with DS and PSP and now mostly game on portables, so when I hear the word "bite-sized" thrown about as a rule, I bristle. Why do handheld games have to be short, snappy gaming experiences? Especially with RPGs, I find myself losing hours much easier on a portable because I can go outside or walk around and fix some cereal. And with the Sleep Mode on portables, I would MUCH rather play a sprawling game like GTA on a portable because I can snap it on and off at any whim without having to reboot and reload (bring it home, console makers!) I'm still not completely free of devotion to the idea of the "real" console game as king (Peace Walker made me happy, but I still flinched when Dragon Quest became a DS franchise) but my personal and biased hope is that portables continue to erode the wall that's keeping AAA designers from stretching their minds over to handheld platforms every now an again... but I also pray, though, that gamers support them with their dollars more than they have this past gen of portables if and when big games get the full treatment on pocket systems..
I don't see why.gofreak said:
Noone seems to think iPad cannibalizes iPhone and iPod sales (or GalaxyTab eating Galaxy-S lunch) and the above devices have absolutely no distinguishing features other then screen sizes really.
PSs already have different software libraries (something that can't be really said for above).
PSP always had the reverse problem too, so I don't see where the idea it could affect console sales comes from. Especially in West where consumers and publishers alike still act like handhelds are the gaming ghetto.
I'm the opposite, but at the same time favoring the PSP2 almost entirely due to the most-likely inclusion of a second analogue stick. Why Nintendo believes one on the 3DS is sufficient is beyond me. I am very excited to see games like MGS3, OOT, and RE in 3D none the less.MotorbreathX said:
Haint
Member
Cannibalizing PS3 sells? That seems a pretty foolish thing to worry about (and start cutting features over) when the triple will be a solid 5 years old by the time a PSP2 launches. I mean for all Sony knows, Nintendo may launch a Wii 2 this holiday that completely tanks PS360 sells and shits all over their 7-10 year plans.
CamHostage
Member
Kenak said:
It's not the ideal answer, but touchscreen and motion sensors can make up for a lot of that control deficit. (I still am saddened that the PSP motion sensor that "Mercury" was supposed to release with never happened. If it had caught on and proved what good motion can be for a portable with limited controller space, a little accelerometer could have been part of PSP by the release of the PSP 2k hardware and who knows how much use developers could have gotten out of that...)
http://www.vg247.com/2011/01/11/squares-shiba-looking-forward-to-hardware-improvements-in-psp2/
Nothing new, but at least we know that developers also look foward to seeing the PSP2 someday :lol
Someone should pass the memo to Sony. Maybe they aren't announcing it because they think that no one cares.
Father_Brain
Banned
Spiegel said:
Provided some of the rumors are true, the heat/power issues may have made it difficult to nail down finalized specs, which Sony would probably want to do before properly announcing the system.
FoneBone said:
Perhaps in knowing that it wasn't going to come till the latter part of this year, they didn't want to announce it before the holidays last year because it would give people something to think about and a reason to keep money in their wallets, for longer than Sony might like i.e. might impact existing Playstation software and/or hardware over the holidays.
Plus there might be something to be said for shorter windows between announcement and release - assuming they could pull that off, of course, and there weren't delays.
Wazzim said:
I'm not suggesting 'it's out now!'. But in terms of maximising hype and riding the crest of a wave, I think there is something to be said for not letting consumers wait too long until after an announcement before a product is on the market. I think ideally an announcement and release within the same calendar year is a good idea and can avoid some hype-fatigue.
Ideally they should announce it before 3DS is launched, so next month. In the worst case it will be kept as the E3 mega announcement which would be pretty common too.
The most interesting aspects will be if and how the new interface has allowed for original experiences among launch games, the level of integration with network services (PSN, applications and more), the hardware specs and price.
Edit: Hardware wise I think it's sufficient to look at the smartphones market to see what's in store. We'll probably get a 1GHZ ARM CPU (dual core to allow better performance and multitasking capability would be cool), 512MB-1GB of RAM, a GPU for mobile applications with shaders, 'HD' screen with at least 640p resolution.
About BC.....it will probably feature PSP compatibility through emulation, of course the games must be bought on the PSN since it will be flash based.
The most interesting aspects will be if and how the new interface has allowed for original experiences among launch games, the level of integration with network services (PSN, applications and more), the hardware specs and price.
Edit: Hardware wise I think it's sufficient to look at the smartphones market to see what's in store. We'll probably get a 1GHZ ARM CPU (dual core to allow better performance and multitasking capability would be cool), 512MB-1GB of RAM, a GPU for mobile applications with shaders, 'HD' screen with at least 640p resolution.
About BC.....it will probably feature PSP compatibility through emulation, of course the games must be bought on the PSN since it will be flash based.
graywolf323
Member
okay if I could play MLB The Show back and forth on my PSP2 and PS3 I'd be sold
FoneBone said:
Xbox360 was announced at E3 2005 and released at the end of the year.
3DS was formally announced last E3 and it was supposed to be launched last year in Japan but then delayed, still coming out less than a year after the annoucement.
Btw I'm not 100% sure that they will able to do a worldwide launch this year because it has been shown in the past that a launch with not enough stock kills the hype like no other and the company lose a lot of potential sales.
Ideally they should have a Monster Hunter game ready for the japanese launch and focus on satisfying demand in that region. Then they could launch in February/March 2012 in US/Europe planning a better software release schedule.
Vinterbird
Member
FoneBone said:
I think we're going to see it happen with both the PSP2, next Nintendo system and the next Microsoft system. It's easier for the companies to do a blast marketing, and have everything be presentable while announcing stuff.
Father_Brain
Banned
Regarding the 360, as early as March 2005, Microsoft execs were talking openly about the "next Xbox" and making clear that it would be fully unveiled at that E3. Not really any kind of precedent at all for a simultaneous PSP2 announcement/reveal at E3... and E3 is in June now, so that would mean less than six months between the show and a November launch.
Of course, lack of precedent hardly equates to proof that it won't happen, so we'll just have to see.
Of course, lack of precedent hardly equates to proof that it won't happen, so we'll just have to see.
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