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[SliceSabre]

I care more about depth of gameplay and how much fun it is to play over how sharp the edges are and how many frames its running at.

Born in 1987 if you're wondering and been gaming since 1990.

 

[nkarafo]

Why stop at 60? Why not 4k and 120fps?

Because the majority/standard of current displays is 60hz.

Personally, i use a CRT monitor on my PC. I play all games at 85fps/hz synced. But the thing is that the difference in smoothness from 60fps and above is less noticeable. It IS there though, i can definitely feel it in "ultra fast paced" games like Quake 3 or counterstrike. For these games, even 60fps isn't enough.

 

[Swarna]

So, obviously its not a hardware/power thing. Its a "design choice". Supposedly. But why?

30 FPS games w/ better effects are easier to market and as a result easier to sell. That's what I'm guessing publishers/developers think, anyways.

 

[Freeman]

Because the majority/standard of current displays is 60hz.

Personally, i use a CRT monitor on my PC. I play all games at 85fps/hz synced. But the thing is that the difference in smoothness from 60fps and above is less noticeable. It IS there though, i can definitely feel it in games like Quake 3 or counterstrike. For these games, even 60fps isn't enough.

Now put yourself in the place of the people that either don't notice the difference or don't care.

My favorite games last gen where all mostly 30fps (best case scenario).

Whatever improvement 60fps brought to Crysis 3 and Skyrim while I played them at a locked 60fps on PC wasn't enough to make them good games. The same go for many other titles. If people where as bothered by bad games as they are for games that aren't 60 fps we would have better games.

 

[Thrakier]

Because I play games.

Play games.

Gameplay.

How a game plays is what matters.

I do not play textures, resolution, or fps.

Fps are one vowel short of faps re: masturbatory concerns.

Are you just trolling or do you really have that little knowledge? 60fps is not about better graphics, it's not about specs. It's solely about gameplay. It's what makes great gameplay out of great gameplay concepts. There are so many games ruined by shot framer ates which could otherwise being a lot of fun.

A good dev with focus on gameplay will always ensure first that the game runs at stable 60fps. Everything else is just marketing bullshit.

 

[SapientWolf]

Now put yourself in the place of the people that either don't notice the difference or don't care.

My favorite games last gen where all mostly 30fps (best case scenario).

The best case scenario is giving people a choice. The people that don't care would still be better off with 60fps as a default, because things like more responsive controls and improved conveyance for animations operate on an unconscious level. For improved graphics to be effective, you have to consciously be aware of them.

 

[nkarafo]

Now put yourself in the place of the people that either don't notice the difference or don't care.

How about this. I don't care that much about resolution. I could care less if a game is 720p/1080p/4k.

But, if we used to play at 1080p and in a newer generation, with more powerful hardware, the standard dropped suddenly at 720p because of reasons, i would at least acknowledge that there is something wrong with that, despite me caring or not.

Whatever improvement 60fps brought to Crysis 3 and Skyrim while I played them at a locked 60fps wasn't enough to make them good games

They were still better than Crysis and Skyrim at 30 fps.

 

[Seanspeed]

Now put yourself in the place of the people that either don't notice the difference or don't care.

My favorite games last gen where all mostly 30fps (best case scenario).

Doesn't mean they wouldn't have been even better at 60fps.

How do you 'not notice' the difference when you never even played those games in 60fps? Again, how is it a 'preference' when people aren't even informed of the actual benefits of the other option?

 

[Joey Ravn]

If a game that I really, really want to play has to run at 30 FPS and there's no way around it (e.g. a "console exclusive"), I'll swallow my pride and play it that way. But if I know the game can run at 60 FPS or more, I definitely prefer it over 30 FPS. That's why I mostly play on PC.

Having played at 60 FPS all my life, 30 FPS feels extremely odd for me.

 

[HTupolev]

I have an XBOX 360 and there are less 60fps racing games there than what i can count in one hand.

Making broad claims about the number of things that are such-and-such on some platform while refusing to provide data is really not helping your argument.

Especially when you go about making blatantly obviously false claims, like that the Xbox 360 has less than 5 (assuming you have typical 5-digit hands) racing games running at 60fps. Forza Motorsport 2, 3, and 4, Ridge Racer 6, Burnout Revenge, Burnout Paradise... (Not exhaustive, you could probably list a lot if you started digging into Arcade titles and such.)

Unless you were just saying that your library has fewer than 5 60fps racing games, which isn't a very useful data point regarding a platform's overall library.

 

[Freeman]

Doesn't mean they wouldn't have been even better at 60fps.

How do you 'not notice' the difference when you never even played those games in 60fps? Again, how is it a 'preference' when people aren't even informed of the actual benefits of the other option?

They would have been even better at 240hz and 8K. But that was not what the developer was going for.

Also, there are 60 fps games on console, what are you talking about? People have played them, I don't know where people get this idea that 60fps or even PC is a new thing.

 

[nkarafo]

Especially when you go about making blatantly obviously false claims, like that the Xbox 360 has less than 5 racing games running at 60fps. Forza Motorsport 2, 3, and 4, Ridge Racer 6, Burnout Revenge, Burnout Paradise... (Not exhaustive, you could probably list a lot if you started digging into Arcade titles and such.)

So, its Forza, Burnout and Ridge Racer. Ok. Still much less compared to what you could find on PS2. Or XBOX.

Arcade XBLA titles like Outrun or Daytona are great and all but they aren't representative of the 360/PS3 generation. They could run at 60fps on an even lesser hardware.

 

[killer rin]

I just personality don't care. As long as the game isn't a slideshow running under 12fps and it's fun. Specs and graphics are meaningless.

 

[Thrakier]

This thread just proves one thing again: most people who are taking the 30fps part in this discussion know jack shit. Heck, it seems like they don't even know what framerate is and how it influences gameplay. It's naive to believe a decent discussion with these people is possible.

 

[Freeman]

This thread just proves one thing again: most people who are taking the 30fps part in this discussion know jack shit. Heck, it seems like they don't even know what framerate is and how it influences gameplay. It's naive to believe a decent discussion with these people is possible.

Yea. That is a good argument.

 

[Swarna]

Now put yourself in the place of the people that either don't notice the difference or don't care.

My favorite games last gen where all mostly 30fps (best case scenario).

My favourite console game last gen was also 30 FPS. Doesn't mean that I don't think it would have been much better if it was 60 FPS instead. If there's a group of people that indeed don't notice the difference or don't care then surely making 60 FPS a minimum core design philosophy wouldn't affect those people's enjoyment of the game while at the same time satiating the needs of those who care about it?

Of course then the "graphics will suffer". In 99% of the cases (at least in PC gaming where you can adjust settings) the visual gains don't offset the frame rate drop for me. Honestly, I wish every console developer would give a few bare minimum toggle options for games as the standard like TLOU:R. Keep the "developer's original vision" as the default settings and hide the menu away in a hard to reach place that casuals will never care to look for it. But put the options in. Honestly, everyone would be a lot more happier that way.

 

[SapientWolf]

They would have been even better at 240hz and 8K. But that was not what the developer was going for.

Also, there are 60 fps games on console, what are you talking about? People have played them, I don't know where people get this idea that 60fps or even PC is a new thing.

Not a valid comparison. The overwhelming majority of consumer displays aren't capable of that. But every single one is capable of 60hz.

 

[Uraizen]

Born in '88 and care quite a bit about framerate. Won't buy a racer that's 30 because it lacks the feel of motion that 60 gives me. Used to go to the arcades quite a bit to play stuff like TTT and MvC2 with the occasional racer or shmup. I remember either trading a dollar bill for arcade coins or just straight up quarters. That's where all my money would go every day after school. Good times...

Anyway, I care about fps and it is something I factor in when I buy a game. I would sacrifice better graphics for fps any day.

 

[SerTapTap]

I find it amazing people are insisting they've played mostly 30 FPS games. You'd have to have never played a 2D game from the NES to the N64 gen and very carefully avoid gen 6, 7 and 8 games, and purposefully lock your PC games to 30 (occasionally not possible). You've probably just not been aware of the framerate, doesn't mean you're mostly playing 30 FPS. Unless you only played N64.

 

[Wonko_C]

Ish all the americansh fault! They make Ganesh only caring about pretty graphixxxx and buggy glitches and bald white male protagonishs. Japanesh games make their games with gameplay first and that means solid framerates. They Aldo have preeeeetayh ColorSh, they're characters also not bald but spiky hair? How cool is that!? Ridge Racer 7 is the best racing game tish gen, or last gen whatever. Where ish ridge racer 8888888? Now I'm crying it's your fault bamco!

Also I'm drunk.

 

[revolverjgw]

Born in 82. I barely played any arcade games in 94-97, arcades were on their deathbed in my area by that time. And my PC wasn't good enough to run games at 60 consistently. So I was used to PS1 and N64 frame rates.

I do care a LOT about 60fps now. I run everything on PC at 60 and have for years, and I'll turn down any setting to achieve it. I'd do it on consoles too if they gave me the options. That said, I can easily get by on 30, if I need to. And I DO need to, far too often...

But I really think most people don't care. I know somebody that's a big Ratchet and Clank fan, and a fairly hardcore gamer. He played the demo of All4One on my PS3 and I remarked that I couldn't believe that they cut the framerate down to 30, I was appalled. And his reaction was shock that I could even tell the difference. I even tried to demonstrate it to him by showing him the judder as scenery scrolls past the camera, and while he did see what I meant, he didn't think it was a big deal. This is someone that was used to the smooth feel of Ratchet games, so it's not like he's some "console pleb that never saw 60fps" or some shit, but it apparently meant nothing to him.

And on that note... Insomniac, you're fucking up

 

[SPACECADET]

born in 88. 30fps is just fine.

 

[DanteGhost]

Born in 88' and thankfully I've experience most of the industry progression, specially in the graphics department.

To this day the only thing I care about is if the game runs smoothly, being at 30 or 60 fps. Stuttering or screen tearing are the only things that drive me away from a game. Or if the game is boring.

 

[Yaphett Kotto]

People don't give a shit about the specs of a game, so long as it's fun.

Bullshit. Bull fucking shit.

There have been a DF analysis thread for nearly every PS4/XB1 title and there has been tons of other threads about x game being at 60fps or 1080p. That short sighted line of thinking that no one cares about specs needs to stop. Hell, we had a thread last week where people were laughing at some people choosing to go with 30fps in TLoU: Remastered because of slightly better shadows.

 

[Ptaaty]

I really love 60 fps. There are some adventure type games where I don't mind 30fps too much, but only with a controller.

I loved games in the 90s and earlier and concur with the OP, the arcade was the cut above, largely for the fps. Tekken 1 on PS1 was huge for me...yeah some of it looked a little janky, but it was 60fps.

 

[Jay Shadow]

Yes I played games in '94-'97. I played Quake at 8 FPS, which is why 30-60 isn't that big a deal. 60 is definitely nice to have, but not any kind of deal breaker if it's not there.

 

[SenjutsuSage]

People don't give a shit about the specs of a game, so long as it's fun.

There it is. I really don't care whether it's 60 or 30 as long as I really enjoy myself playing it. The closest I really come to demanding 60fps is in a 2D fighter or a sports title.

 

[JJDinomite]

I didn't care too much about framerate until I started trying to play games on an old MacBook. Man it was horrible. I'd play TF2 on the lowest resolution, lowest settings, and I'd get maybe 10 to 20 fps.. Ever since I upgraded to a real gaming PC, I can never go back. 30fps is absolutely horrible, and I'm so sorry for anyone who doesn't see it yet. The mentality that we don't need better framerates or resolutions is an absolute cancer to gaming. If you really believe that they don't matter, go ahead and play some 320x240 PS1 games with sub-20 fps, and tell me how you feel. SNES games aged so much better than the PS1/N64 generation, simply because of the massive shift in what was considered an acceptable framerate. If developers ever get their act together and focus on 60fps gameplay, I'm sure we'll go back to the PS3/360 generation and feel the same way.

 

[pillowtalk]

Most people don't care until it hits 20fps. But I just want to say that we play video games. I think that video part is pretty important.

 

[Madness]

I had just as much fun playing Doom on the SNES than the PC. Been gaming since 89-90. Of course having games be the best they can be, is what we should strive for, but I have fun playing almost everything. It's almost snobbish to suggest that anything below 60 fps is unplayable etc.

 

[DirgeExtinction]

Born in '88.
I never really cared for arcade games.
As long as the game is fun, I don't care if it's 30fps or 60fps.

 

[VanWinkle]

I honestly love 30fps and 60fps. I like 60fps even better, but 30fps with some motion blur is great, too.

Only exception are games with 2D graphics. I really want those to be 60fps. I'd vastly prefer it on 2.5D as well.

 

[EightBitNate]

If you played more and more games at 60fps, 30fps would likely start to bother you more and more.

Just like the more you play at 1080p, the harder it becomes to go back to 720p.

People's standards are usually not static. So when I hear people say they've really learned to appreciate 60fps with TLOU but then *still* say that 30fps is fine for other games, its just a result of not enough experience with 60fps to really have your standards properly changed. Just like I'm sure people who played Gran Turismo 5 on the PS3 in 1080p didn't immediately say that other games at 720p were unacceptable, ya know? But I'm betting that anybody that's had a PS4 for a while would probably see 720p gaming in a different light now than they did before.

But I've been gaming for awhile though. Lots of 60fps games have come and gone. TLoU was different because it was the first time I've been able to compare them easily.

 

[bwakh]

I appreciate the fight for 60fps games, as an old school arcade/console gamer. Playing Last of Us in 60fps is sublime.

But at the end of the day, I just look at it like, what is most important? Do I truly enjoy the game? the story? To me, the art of it, the creation and that some of these amazing things even exist is more important that the tech details. Their existence, and my appreciation of their existence is worth more than getting caught up in somewhat trivial aspects.

Visuals, FPS, the latest shader technology, it's all important to making a cohesive excellent experience. But at the end of the day, all I care about is whether that game in front of me is really turning my crank.

Fight the good fight though, if the Gaf 60fps brigade can convince more devs to do 60fps, then gaming could be greater for it.

I think that we should clamour for devs to do locked and consistent 30fps across the board before we ask for 60fps.

 

[Wools]

I really don't care about frame rate so long as it's stable.

I was born in 1984, have owned all major consoles, had loads of PC's and just want to play great games. Frame rate literally means nothing to me.

 

[Aim_Ed]

Lately 30fps is very noticeable and hurts my head, but I admit that I grew up playing games on PC at 60+. I do enjoy console games once in a while, but I've been spoiled and I hope devs have 60fps in mind whenever they make a console game, even at the expense of video quality.

 

[EventHorizon]

Oh look. It's the GAF 60 FPS echo chamber at work again. It's obvious that FPS just isn't a priority for most gamers. Developers are responding by giving gamers what they do prioritize over FPS, like better graphics or larger play areas and draw distances. What these FPS discussions boil down to is people bemoaning that their gaming tastes are not shared by the general public along with a not so little touch of elitism.

 

[Forceatowulf]

Why do people keep saying they care mostly about the gameplay and then scoff at framrate like it's just another petty graphics debate? You do realize that shit improves gameplay right? We're not talking about extra polygons, real time mirror reflections, and improved Anisotropic filtering. We're talking about how the fucking game moves, how that can impact your reaction timing, overall responsiveness, and adds a feeling of overall fluidity. This all ties into the physical gameplay some of you swear up and down that you care for so much.

Fuck it, I'm just gonna go ahead and say it... Anyone who says they couldn't care less about framerate or are indifferent to it, and in the same breath mentions gameplay as their number one concern, is full of shit. Period. How could you possibly care more about gameplay when you're totally fine with devs making games at half the framerate they can achieve, in order to pump out better looking graphics? This is cognitive dissonance at it's finest...

 

[BashNasty]

Born in 1984, was raised in arcades so I've been gaming from a very young age.

To be honest, 60 fps vs 30fps does matter to me. I can totally see the difference and games feel a lot better to play at 60. The last of us, for instance has been a better experience on ps4 for me than it was on ps3.

Totally not a deal-breaker, though.

 

[Tain]

Because I play games.

Play games.

Gameplay.

How a game plays is what matters.

I do not play textures, resolution, or fps.

Fps are one vowel short of faps re: masturbatory concerns.

"How a game plays" is deeply connected to how it aesthetically communicates to the player. Framerate is a part of that. It is not everything and it is not insignificant.

 

[DOWN]

Ya food for thought went stale by '05

When a game is gorgeous and totally playable at 30, no surprise devs pick 30 with higher graphical fidelity.

 

[Codiox]

I grew up with Star Fox on the SNES, so I was fine with like 15, haha..

In fact, my family wasn't all that rich or anything, so I've commonly played PC games like Duke 3D at 10 fps, sometimes dropping all the way down to 2 fps. I've had much more patience back then, of course now I wouldn't dare play a 2 fps game...

Born in '89, btw. But never really hung around in arcades...

This is the definition of a Gamer! Play because u have fun, not because it has some numbers u didn't even noticed if u are immersed in the game.

 

[bunbun777]

Is there any proof that consumers prefer graphics over framerate? Cod is best selling game right?

 

[Night Hunter]

Now put yourself in the place of the people that either don't notice the difference or don't care.

My favorite games last gen where all mostly 30fps (best case scenario).

Whatever improvement 60fps brought to Crysis 3 and Skyrim while I played them at a locked 60fps on PC wasn't enough to make them good games. The same go for many other titles. If people where as bothered by bad games as they are for games that aren't 60 fps we would have better games.

.

Plus at least for me, while everybody is always saying that 60 frames makes for better gameplay I'm not a good enough player in the first place to take advantage of that

 

[jpax]

This thread just proves one thing again: most people who are taking the 30fps part in this discussion know jack shit. Heck, it seems like they don't even know what framerate is and how it influences gameplay. It's naive to believe a decent discussion with these people is possible.

So true!

 

[bwakh]

Why do people keep saying they care mostly about the gameplay and then scoff at framrate like it's just another petty graphics debate? You do realize that shit improves gameplay right? We're not talking about extra polygons, real time mirror reflections, and improved Anisotropic filtering. We're talking about how the fucking game moves, how that can impact your reaction timing, overall responsiveness, and adds a feeling of overall fluidity. This all ties into the physical gameplay some of you swear up and down that you care for so much.

Fuck it, I'm just gonna go ahead and say it... Anyone who says they couldn't care less about framerate or are indifferent to it, and in the same breath mentions gameplay as their number one concern, is full of shit. Period. How could you possibly care more about gameplay when you're totally fine with devs making games at half the framerate they can achieve, in order to pump out better looking graphics? This is cognitive dissonance at it's finest...

To be fair, it does not apply to every genre of gaming.

 

[Unai]

.

Plus at least for me, while everybody is always saying that 60 frames makes for better gameplay I'm not a good enough player in the first place to take advantage of that

More responsiveness should help bad players and good players alike. I would even dare to say it helps bad players more.

 

[Lanrutcon]

This thread just proves one thing again: most people who are taking the 30fps part in this discussion know jack shit. Heck, it seems like they don't even know what framerate is and how it influences gameplay. It's naive to believe a decent discussion with these people is possible.

Pretty much, but these threads are good for a laugh every now and then.

Laconic's posts, for example.

 

[Pyccko]

'88 here. And yeah, I do remember all the lovely 8/16bit (mostly the latter) days and all the smooth-as-sweet-silk arcade classicos. But I'm also not really bothered by framerate.

I'm almost positive my not giving a crap about it is because I spent so long playing games on the worst garbage computer of all time. I played WoW for years at 10-15fps. More like 5-8ish in one of the big cities. And forget about Dalaran, that mess was more like 1 frame per 5 seconds.

ANYWAYZ, having gone through that for so long, playing any game with a decent framerate is just nice, no matter if it's 30 or 60. Y'know, like some kinda "don't look a gift horse in the mouth" type junk. As long as I'm not getting PTSD flashbacks to those dalaran days, I'm all good.

 

[Night Hunter]

More responsiveness should help bad players and good players alike. I would even dare to say it helps bad players more.

Sorry, but no. Wolfenstein definitely didn't help me in any way to pull off something I couldn't have pulled off at 30.