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For the next Zelda game, let's avoid the Zelda Cycle

I think this would require someone to say "Skyward Sword was the best" so cycle avoided :P
Sword/weapon controls were awesome for a first major attempt.

We could keep shitting on Mario 64 for its 3D camera controls too
no one does that
 
Can't wait for the Zelda cycle to kick in so people can finally enjoy positive opinions of Skyward Sword. Game was really, really great.
 
I don't anticipate anyone playing the new open world game and longing for the days of linearity, hyper-formulaic design, and wii motion controls. I'm sorry, I simply don't see it.

Skyward Sword was loved by a great deal of people (dare I say the majority of people, even on GAF.) There will be people who don't like the new Zelda game. There will be some crossover in these two groups.
 
I dont like this new Zelda game because the textures on that rock dosent look too hot.

So i cant avoid the zelda cycle right now.
 
Obligatory;

ViiLG.png

Not even Asian and this picture always irks me.
 
I've been waiting for a Zelda like this ever since OOT turned out to be so linear 16 years ago. I'm way beyond excited. This is a total dream game for me. :-)
 
I think I'll keep judging games for their positives and negatives, and not the ebb and flow of some nebulous "general opinion" that may or may not be true (vocal minorities can be VERY vocal on forums and not all people who think a game is just "meh" are always willing to debate it at length, so it's hard to get a good overall impression of what the majority feels about a game).

For Wind Waker I always loved the artstyle (and I wasn't all that active on the internet then so I never heard much of the crying about the cartoony look) and I love it to bits overall, but I still hate the big Triforce Hunt which made me stop playing it originally.

Twilight Princess I liked a lot. Lots of dungeons with a few cool items, but the over world was bland to me and overall the game was lacking a lot of the magic that OoT and WW had for me.

Skyward Sword I liked the artstyle a lot and LOVE the free running ability they added, but I didn't enjoy the motion controls (recalibrating all the time got really annoying) or the bird stuff, so I stopped playing not too far into it. This review shared a lot of my concerns and it seems like the game would have had a lot of other aspects I would have taken issue with later on had I kept playing.

As great as this series is, it's definitely not a perfect for me so there will always be a place for criticism for it. I share some people's concerns about the emptiness of the world shown in the newest gameplay video. Whether this ends up as another Wind Waker giant (but very pretty) ocean with nothing substancial to do between the islands, or if it ends up more like Skyrim where it's packed with caves and sidequests to do to keep the world interesting remains to be seen, and I don't begrudge others for voicing those concerns.

It's still early so I'm not overly worried. Honestly, I'd rather be cautious about a games quality early and be surprised by it's great quality, than be hyped to the moon for a game only to be disappointed that it didn't meet my crazy standards.
 
I've mostly existed outside the Zelda cycle and I feel like I was able to appreciate new Zelda games during their time. However, Skyward Sword disappointed me in several ways (I enjoyed it, but still).... This new Zelda will have to make some interesting mistakes to make me like Skyward Sword more. It would have to include even more hand-holding and game padding.
 
Can't wait for the Zelda cycle to kick in so people can finally enjoy positive opinions of Skyward Sword. Game was really, really great.

I have positive opinions about parts of Skyward Sword. Motion controls didn't bother me (except for that fucking harp), I liked the upgrade system, the stamina meter allowed them to design some interesting traversal challenges, NPCs were fun to engage with, I liked the level/puzzle design, and generally it was very pretty.

But it's not without some egregious downsides - namely the sky was boring as fuck, Fi repeating obvious information you already know, like Twilight Princess the game is full of shameless padding that does nothing to benefit the player, repeated bossfights, and I REALLY didn't care for that climax/ending.

It's a good, interesting game, but it's not in the upper-echelon of Zeldas.


And considering my opinion hasn't changed on TP since release, I'm going to go ahead and say this Zelda cycle thing is bullshit.
 
I have positive opinions about parts of Skyward Sword. Motion controls didn't bother me (except for that fucking harp),.

Man, i love the harp! It really works! I dont usually follow the SS criticism but its really the last thing i expected someone to not like

I really need to finish SS (but my tv exploded :(
 
I don't anticipate anyone playing the new open world game and longing for the days of linearity, hyper-formulaic design, and wii motion controls. I'm sorry, I simply don't see it.

You basically just described my opinion lol.

Though I'm not against open world design, it's far from an automatic plus, and bigger isn't better. I prefer Bully's smaller Bullworth Academy to GTAV's Los Santos for example. The focused world of Skyward Sword was a welcome change from WW and TP.

ALBW did do open world very well I admit. It was open but also dense and compact. We'll see about the new one.
 
I assure you I'm not going to magically change my opinion of Skyward Sword by the time Zelda Wii U arrives.
Did you really give the game a fair shot? I'm only asking because I initially gave up on the game somewhere around halfway through the first dungeon. Swore off the waggle, hated the feel...it just didn't click with me at all.

Went back sometime later and decided to put my reservations aside and really give it a try, despite my reservations. To my surprise, I enjoyed it more than any Zelda game in a long, long time.
 
I've seen nothing but positive hype for this game.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=141934222&postcount=144

And there are plenty of other ones in that thread. I can understand you missing them though, I almost always scroll past these complaints.

Instead of being only positive or negative, let's allow different types of opinions that are well-argued rather than blatant statements only adding fuel to either side of the argument. This sounds much better.

As for the Zelda cycle, I have no idea how much truth there is to it. If it exists, couldn't it possibly be related to age? As in, younger people grow up with different Zelda games and thus have different personal values when it comes to them.

I have no problem with well-argued opinions as long as they're acknowledged as just opinions, but people often present their (not always well thought-out) opinions as fact which gets annoying.

I honestly doubt anyone is going to pretend Skyward Sword is the best Zelda game ever released like what happened with Wind Waker and TP.

No chance of looking back at Skyward Sword with nostalgia.
Horrible controls, poor pacing, bad companion and collectathon questing. Horrible.

Also, the words "I wish it were like Skyward Sword" and " I wish it was like Twilight Princess" have never been spoken by anybody.

I loved Twilight Princess and Skyward Sword
How-to-stop-blushing.png


Too late. From now on we love Skyward Sword.

But to be honest, those time shift dungeons are hard to top.

It really makes me want to explore more of ancient Hyrule.

I can tell you right now that a lot of people are gonna love the new Zelda. And a lot of people aren't. And a lot of people are gonna be in-between at various shades on various things, from certain dungeons, to item usage, to sidequests, to the story, to the fuckin' text speed.

You should prepare yourself for this, as they call these things "opinions", and everyone has one.

But I want my Zelda preview threads to be about funny in-game pictures, baseless lore speculation, and overblown hype.

Seriously, getting yourself overly hyped up can be a key factor for why installments in anything let you down, trying to keep yourself calm and judge a game by its own merits is more likely to lead you to being happy with the game, rather than being let down. Going in really negative COULD possibly give you the highest high, but you might also just get yourself so worked up into hating something you'll hate it anyway.

You're right. I have no huge expectations and just trust Nintendo to make this game awesome. I'm also never let down because I only buy games a month after they come out, just in case they unexpectedly flop.

I'm not sure if anyone takes it dead seriously. It's just an amusing pattern. Of course it can be explained by the fact that any big change is going to have people that like it and people preferred the old way. And people who just don't like any change until they've had some time to get used to it (by far the biggest group).

I definitely didn't take the clip seriously, though it is funny. This thread is really just my low-key way of building more Zelda hype.

Can't wait for the Zelda cycle to kick in so people can finally enjoy positive opinions of Skyward Sword. Game was really, really great.

I know right. Flying on those birds was awesome, and I loved exploring the forest level that
gets flooded
.

Man, i love the harp! It really works! I dont usually follow the SS criticism but its really the last thing i expected someone to not like

I really need to finish SS (but my tv exploded :(

Luckily, we have the gamepad for Zelda U
 
I don't anticipate anyone playing the new open world game and longing for the days of linearity, hyper-formulaic design, and wii motion controls. I'm sorry, I simply don't see it.
Some do seem to want Zelda to be more linear and especially more story driven though. I always find that kind of crazy, if I wanted a more linear, story driven adventure around the world I'd generally prefer to play a proper JRPG, especially as Zelda tends to prefer staying with several comfortable staples akin to Mario even when efforts are made to break from them. If we got more, say, Majora's Mask than Twilight Princess I'd probably be warmer on a story focus for Zelda, even if linearity's generally abhorrant to why I like to play.
There is no Zelda cycle. Zelda fans have very polarized views on each game.
This, going to what I said before. And for a series that hasn't wildly diverged like Final Fantasy and I just critiqued for being too scared to go away from core staples it's really kind of surprising, but I guess you can just... drift in how you design something and eventually land with something that's actually notably distinct from what you started with, even if you didn't try to do something completely different each time.
This is a good way of looking at things. Keep your expectations in check.

I liked almost every Zelda title on release so I'm not going to worry or hype too much and just let it wash all over me on release.
Admittedly sometimes you still expect things to be a certain way or things just get irritating no matter what mentality you came into a game with (seriously Fi shut the fuck up already.) But I'm probably warmer on average to some of my least liked entries than some people can be, Skyward Sword really would be much better if Fi were less Captain Obvious, even before tackling other issues I had, and sometimes I just find I appreciate the games more in hindsight as I do have some fondness for Skyward Sword.
 
Zelda cycle doesn't exist for me personally. It's been 8 and 3 years respectively and I still don't like TP or SS. I loved MM and WW right away too.
 
More seriously I tend to think the reality behind the Zelda Cycle is that by the time another Zelda comes out 3-5 years have passed. Zelda games are evergreen and people keep discovering, and playing them, after their year of release. At launch, the more invested fans who express hyperbolic opinions over Zelda are wound up and yelling at Nintendo. After some time has passed, way more people have weighed in on the last game. And surprise surprise - even an "okay" Zelda game is generally good enough that a lot of people quite enjoyed it.

So by the time a new game is nears and everyone is voicing panic over how it's going to betray them, ruin childhoods, etc, the appearance is created that opinions over the last game flipped a bit and everyone thinks it was great.
 
I've been waiting for a Zelda like this ever since OOT turned out to be so linear 16 years ago. I'm way beyond excited. This is a total dream game for me. :-)

Tamper your expectations. It's Aonuma. He's incapable of making nonlinear games, Link Between Worlds notwithstanding.
 
I fucking love all Zelda games, so my Zelda cycle is:

-Buying at launch
-Play the shit out of it.
-Barely eat or sleep for 3 to 6 days.
-Unlock and do everything
-Neglect family/friends/work/school/girlfriend (unless she is playing with me)
-Finish it, sleep for about a day, eat at carls jr.
-Check reviews and messages, laugh at them all.
-Play again in Hero Mode if available, otherwise just play again, this time with a silly name for Link. Like ButtCrack.

Yeah, sounds about right.
 
Tamper your expectations. It's Aonuma. He's incapable of making nonlinear games, Link Between Worlds notwithstanding.
I'm choosing to be optimistic, even if that optimism may be misplaced. I've found myself being able to look past my complaints about 3D Zelda more over the past year, so that's one reason. Plus ALBW was amazing and leaves me feeling more hopeful.
 
Seriously though, Zelda's never done anything to make me hate it, even the DS games, so I'll probably love and enjoy Zelda U. I just want to make sure that none of the constants of the series are changed, because then the series is starting to move into the territory of making me mad/sad by its direction.
 
Tamper your expectations. It's Aonuma. He's incapable of making nonlinear games, Link Between Worlds notwithstanding.

so aside from the most recent time when he made a non-linear game in an active effort to not make a non-linear game, he can't make non-linear games...

...did i get that right?
 
I will respond to the footage of the game that they show me. If I don't like the looks of it, I will say "I don't like the looks of this." Then I'll play the game, and I'll say whether I liked playing it.

Tamper your expectations. It's Aonuma. He's incapable of making nonlinear games, Link Between Worlds notwithstanding.

God I hope so. Don't want any meaningless open world shit.
 
I mean, which Zelda games have been non-linear except the NES games? Zelda is a linear franchise.

The following list will rank all Zelda games by counting the number of possible orders, in which the main dungeons can be played. (This is the order in what the dungeons must be visited. Some games allow that you simply take an item from a dungeon and save the rest for later, so the orders in what the dungeons can be completed is an entirely different beast.)

The Legend of Zelda: 872
A Link to the Past: 66
Ocarina of Time: 7 (55)
Four Swords, Phantom Hourglass: 6
Oracle of Seasons: 2
the other 10 games: 1

I tried to count all possibly orders in The Legend of Zelda, but it's just so much that I had to use this program. There are very few restrictions here. Levels 2 and 8 can basically played at any given time. Yes, you can play and beat the eight dungeons first, which sounds crazy, but you can try. You need the Bow from the first dungeon to beat Level 6. You need the Raft from Level 3 to access Level 4. And you need the Stepladder from Level 4 to beat Level 5, 6 and 7. And the Flute from Level 5 to enter and beat Level 7. That's pretty much it and results in many, many different orders.

A Link to the Past is somewhat more linear, but the restrictions here are very simple. You need the Hammer from the Dark Palace to get to any other part of the Dark World. And you need the Titan's Mitts to enter Ice Palace, Misery Mire and Turtle Rock. Turtle Rock additionally needs the Fire Rod and the Cane of Somaria. That's it, which results in 66 different orders (source).

Ocarina of Time is usually considered to be very linear, because of Navi, which guides you from dungeon to dungeon. But in reality there are many possible options, you can visit the temples in 7 different orders. You need the Fairy Bow in the Water Temple and you need the Longshot (or Hover Boots) to enter the Spirit Temple. To enter the Shadow Temple you must complete the first three temples (the Kakariko well sequence gets triggered by collecting the first four Medaillons). So, this is how it looks (source):

Forest - Fire - Water - Spirit - Shadow
Forest - Fire - Water - Shadow - Spirit
Forest - Water - Fire - Spirit - Shadow
Forest - Water - Fire - Shadow - Spirit
Forest - Water - Spirit - Fire - Shadow
Fire - Forest - Water - Spirit - Shadow
Fire - Forest - Water - Shadow - Spirit

This only counts the temples, if you take the mandatory minidungeon Ice Cavern and Bottom of the Well into equation, you will end up with 55 possible orders, so Ocarina of Time scores a good 3rd place here. The Ice Cavern can be played at any point before the Water Temple and the Bottom of the Well at any point between the Forest and Shadow Temples.

And Master Quest might be somewhat different as well. Here you need the Fairy Bow in the Fire Temple, but not in the Water Temple, so you can beat the Water Temple first here. But it should be somewhat similar.

http://touriantourist.blogspot.nl/2013/08/the-linearity-check-dungeon-orders.html
 
Did you really give the game a fair shot? I'm only asking because I initially gave up on the game somewhere around halfway through the first dungeon. Swore off the waggle, hated the feel...it just didn't click with me at all.

Went back sometime later and decided to put my reservations aside and really give it a try, despite my reservations. To my surprise, I enjoyed it more than any Zelda game in a long, long time.

Why wouldn't I? Granted, I wasn't the game's biggest advocate during its pre-release, but I actually quite enjoyed the Skyloft intro (as well as some of the area's sidequests). Couldn't really stand most of the surface, though; the game's only real highlight were the dungeons that utilized timeshift stones, imo.

While I do plan on giving the game another playthrough for the sake of a future blog review (and it'll be a 100% run, so I won't be half-assing it), major flaws like Fi, blatant padding, and the lame boss designs aren't going to just disappear.
 
Ugh what's with all the Skyward Sword hate? I never had any problems with it. Gorgeous visuals, memorable characters, wonderful controls, amazing music, intriguing worlds... One of my favorite games of all time.

As for the complaints about the new footage, I think they're mostly valid. You can't look at some of those textures and models and say they're acceptable. And at least for me, the world doesn't really excite me. It really does look empty to me. THAT BEING SAID, I believe those problems will be fixed by the time the game comes out. What we've seen is early, early footage, and I trust Aonuma to make yet another amazing Zelda game. I've only played Skyward Sword, Wind Waker HD and A Link Between Worlds, but I loved them all to death.

Can't wait until E3
or maybe January direct :3
when we see more...
 
The "Zelda Cycle" frustrates me in its implication that the Zelda fanbase is a hivemind that bitches just for the sake of bitching. I'm honestly a little shocked people still believe in it, and even more so that Bill Trinen made Nintendo's Japanese management aware of it.

I agree. There is a cycle, or natural progression going on, but it's not the "Zelda Cycle", specifically. Personally I feel it has more to do with younger people who played the games growing up and finding forums.
 
Link Between Worlds already broke the zelda cycle with how awesome it is

also the so called zelda cycle usually kicks in after the game is released (if we are to believe it actually exists). Twilight Princess had nothing but extreme hype pre release and skyward sword also generally had very positive reactions
 
lol, what positive things are the masses going to say about Skyward Sword? Though, I can see the negative things outflowing from the new one already. Something something open world something something not enough missions too empty blah blah. I'm still on about #FemaleLink.
Link Between Worlds already broke the zelda cycle with how awesome it is
Handhelds don't count?
 
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