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[Ogbert]

Which did you find worse - Toxic Head Crabs or Jeff?

For me, 100% head crabs. I’ll avoid any spoilers. Chapter seven is one of the most amazing bits of gaming design I have ever played. Incredible. But, strangely enough, I actually felt like I was playing a game at that point. And Jeff himself isn’t scary. It’s just the masterful way they crank up the tension.

But sweet God in heaven those toxic head crabs terrify me. And I mean TERRIFY me. It’s the hairs on their legs. I had to play ‘that’ section in the Northern Star hotel on a Saturday morning, with my kids talking in the background, just to keep my hands from shaking. Also couldn’t use full audio as it was too immersive, so just used the inbuilt headset speakers. I’d do that thing of just screaming, looking away and emptying an entire clip into the little bastards.

 

[pr0cs]

Both sections were fantastic, I wished Jeff was a little less predictable but the first few attempts and failures did scare the shit out of me.
Esp when the light goes out and you can hear him growling in the background. Brrrrrrr

Alyx was easily my goty

 

[hollams]

The headcrabs for sure. You do have to let each one of them get you though just to hear what Russell will say. His comments are awesome.

 

[MDSLKTR]

Headcrabs took on a whole different dimension in vr, being to scale does that!

 

[MiguelItUp]

Headcrabs, most definitely, haha. The toxic ones are little nasty bastards!

 

[DanEON]

Headcrabs for sure.

 

[Ogbert]

Headcrabs, most definitely, haha. The toxic ones are little nasty bastards!

When I realised they were respawning in Chapter 5, I just opened the door where you get the gun, screamed ‘BANZAI!’ and legged it.

 

[JCK75]

People that think VR is just a passing fad, they just have no clue how life changing a game like this is...

 

[MiguelItUp]

When I realised they were respawning in Chapter 5, I just opened the door where you get the gun, screamed ‘BANZAI!’ and legged it.

Hahaha, same. I was SOOOO hesitant though, lmao.

 

[Grumpy Toe Nail]

Jeff was the worst part, invincible things that you just sneak by always comes off as a cheap tension builder. Game is good but a bit repetitive.

 

[EverydayBeast]

VR will not be used as a pawn.

 

[Vlodril]

Hairy headcrabs by far. Disturbing as hell. I am not a fan of horror so i had to push myself hard to finish this game. Easily the best game of the year though, so worth it.

 

[SafeOrAlone]

Would this have been GOTY for most outlets had more people had access to it? What say you? I know VR must be mindblowing to actually try, because everytime I watch gameplay on youtube or whatever, the games look so boring.

 

[Forsythia]

Would this have been GOTY for most outlets had more people had access to it? What say you? I know VR must be mindblowing to actually try, because everytime I watch gameplay on youtube or whatever, the games look so boring.

Being VR only harmed it... but being VR made it stand out. I haven't played it yet and probably won't for a long dime due to it being VR, but I understand that the game would be nothing special without it.

 

[pr0cs]

everytime I watch gameplay on youtube or whatever, the games look so boring.

This is an unfortunate side effect of VR, it just doesn't show well in 2d.
But the sense of presence, when done right is amazing, Alyx is top tier in this regard.

Skyrim is also very good, even if the game is a bit bland or old, nothing cooler than sitting in an pc house, hearing the fire crackle, smoke wafting from the braziers. In 2d that part is easily overlooked but in VR its mind blowing

 

[Alexios]

It shouldn't even be VR GOTY when there are games like TWD: Saints & Sinners. It was a very by the numbers FPA, perhaps more polished than most but also narrow in focus and still with jarring bits (i.e., parts where the level design demands teleport rather than seamless movement just to get past obstacles and stuff). Great graphics and set pieces but overall not nearly as awesome as I expected it to be after playing VR indie games for a couple years before and expecting Valve to knock it out of the park with creativity and meat on the game's still rare for VR AAA bones. Cool ending.

 

[Pakoe]

Jeff wasn't bad, the headcrabs got me though. I'm just happy there weren't any 'fast' headcrabs like in HL2. Would've probably shit myself.

 

[Romulus]

Jeff wasn't bad, the headcrabs got me though. I'm just happy there weren't any 'fast' headcrabs like in HL2. Would've probably shit myself.

You need to play HL2 in VR with Garry's mod. That games atmosphere in VR just breathes new life into it.

 

[pr0cs]

You need to play HL2 in VR with Garry's mod. That games atmosphere in VR just breathes new life into it.

it's on my todo list, any guides on getting it set up? A reply of HL2 might be in order since it's been eons since I've played it.

 

[Romulus]

it's on my todo list, any guides on getting it set up? A reply of HL2 might be in order since it's been eons since I've played it.

Yeah search Gary's mod HL2. Tutorial vids will come up.

 

[Balducci30]

It shouldn't even be VR GOTY when there are games like TWD: Saints & Sinners. It was a very by the numbers FPA, perhaps more polished than most but also narrow in focus and still with jarring bits (i.e., parts where the level design demands teleport rather than seamless movement just to get past obstacles and stuff). Great graphics and set pieces but overall not nearly as awesome as I expected it to be after playing VR indie games for a couple years before and expecting Valve to knock it out of the park with creativity and meat on the game's still rare for VR AAA bones. Cool ending.

Yeah I really disagree with this. Didn’t enjoy walking dead or boneworks, or really any game that has simulated weight - Alyx was kinda next level for me personally even having played a lot in the lead up.

But yeah this game cannot be appreciated in 2D whatsoever.

 

[Ogbert]

Would this have been GOTY for most outlets had more people had access to it? What say you? I know VR must be mindblowing to actually try, because everytime I watch gameplay on youtube or whatever, the games look so boring.

I think so. I’ve certainly not played anything nearly as good as it in the last few years (although do accept the points of criticism).

That said, I do get the fact that websites have to cater to their audience. I think it will be another five years or so before VR really becomes ubiquitous.

VR is fundamentally different. The visceral quality of the experience means it needs to be judged in a different way.

 

[Ogbert]

Yeah I really disagree with this. Didn’t enjoy walking dead or boneworks, or really any game that has simulated weight - Alyx was kinda next level for me personally even having played a lot in the lead up.

But yeah this game cannot be appreciated in 2D whatsoever.

Haven’t played Walking Dead (next on the list) but I was really disappointed with Boneworks. Way too ‘floaty’ in its movement.

 

[Alexios]

Yeah I really disagree with this. Didn’t enjoy walking dead or boneworks, or really any game that has simulated weight - Alyx was kinda next level for me personally even having played a lot in the lead up.

But yeah this game cannot be appreciated in 2D whatsoever.

Boneworks sucks (next to no level/game design in there, just physics in Half-Life-esque-but-not-so-good maps and a weird story I couldn't care less about), but Saints & Sinners is superb, stuck with lighter one handed weapons both melee and ranged which are near 1:1 and had no issues at all.

Think I only ever used the heavy stuff in the tutorial and also if someone dropped them and I used them until they broke to maintain my stuff, made for some nice variety and panic when I was cornered trying to stay in cover and unable to get this long shotgun up to aim in that narrow space, ha.

S&S didn't use physics for climbing/mantling up and such which made it way smoother than BW too. And obviously the enemy interactions are far beyond anything in Alyx which they couldn't even do any real melee in (but given the ending the sequel hopefully does have that and does it great).

And the meat of the game is a light immersive sim with all the scavenging and stuff you do to maintain your gear and make new stuff too (and again plenty choices for one handed 1:1 tracked weapons) and the story has the odd choice here and there that does make a difference/give options.

It has a pretty satisfying game loop in general with the day/night/horde even if you can see where it lacks polish, balance, refinement, whatever. Again, Alyx does too in places despite being so much more narrow in focus most of the time. I don't really understand what could put anyone so off.

Enemy interactions make stuff like Blade & Sorcery great too, not that I'd suggest it's better than Alyx given it doesn't yet have any progression stuff (and likely never will have an actual adventure to go through, probably just tournament stuff). Physics aren't bad as a rule, just when done badly.

 

[Romulus]

Yeah I really disagree with this. Didn’t enjoy walking dead or boneworks, or really any game that has simulated weight - Alyx was kinda next level for me personally even having played a lot in the lead up.

But yeah this game cannot be appreciated in 2D whatsoever.

While I like those games with simulated physics, it doesn't propel the experience above something like Alyx. In fact, sometimes I don't mind a good game with just controller support and VR(Re7). I think they all can work, but just being "better" purely because of better physics and more interactions just don't work for me. I think you get used to it either way and it becomes just another input method. Not saying I don't like it, because I do.

 

[SirKicksalot]

The hotel headcrabs became annoying fast. It's just an overdesigned conveyor belt puzzle.
I abandoned the game before Jeff lol

 

[Balducci30]

Boneworks sucks (next to no level/game design in there, just physics in Half-Life-esque-but-not-so-good maps and a weird story I couldn't care less about), but Saints & Sinners is superb, stuck with lighter one handed weapons both melee and ranged which are near 1:1 and had no issues at all.

Think I only ever used the heavy stuff in the tutorial and also if someone dropped them and I used them until they broke to maintain my stuff, made for some nice variety and panic when I was cornered trying to stay in cover and unable to get this long shotgun up to aim in that narrow space, ha.

S&S didn't use physics for climbing/mantling up and such which made it way smoother than BW too. And obviously the enemy interactions are far beyond anything in Alyx which they couldn't even do any real melee in (but given the ending the sequel hopefully does have that and does it great).

And the meat of the game is a light immersive sim with all the scavenging and stuff you do to maintain your gear and make new stuff too (and again plenty choices for one handed 1:1 tracked weapons) and the story has the odd choice here and there that does make a difference/give options.

It has a pretty satisfying game loop in general with the day/night/horde even if you can see where it lacks polish, balance, refinement, whatever. Again, Alyx does too in places despite being so much more narrow in focus most of the time. I don't really understand what could put anyone so off.

Enemy interactions make stuff like Blade & Sorcery great too, not that I'd suggest it's better than Alyx given it doesn't yet have any progression stuff (and likely never will have an actual adventure to go through, probably just tournament stuff). Physics aren't bad as a rule, just when done badly.

I honestly was not super into the more open ended experience of saints and sinners. Like I love that in a normal video game - and the melee and stuff didn’t feel nearly as bad as boneworks or anything. I just the graphics, lack of polish on certain things and level of open ended-ness actually detracted from the experience for me. The more directed approach of Alyx gave me a lot more “wow I’m actually inside this game” experiences than the walking dead did. It still felt very much like a video game to me I guess whereas there were points in Alyx where my brain was legitimately tricked into thinking it was reality. I think part of this was due to me using room scale for most traversal etc, like it really felt like I was exploring real spaces which saints and sinners just didn’t do for me.

 

[Thaedolus]

Jeff wasn't bad, the headcrabs got me though. I'm just happy there weren't any 'fast' headcrabs like in HL2. Would've probably shit myself.

This is how I felt- Jeff was a fun puzzle but didn’t scare me. Head crabs had me on edge, especially in dark areas

 

[Ogbert]

I honestly was not super into the more open ended experience of saints and sinners. Like I love that in a normal video game - and the melee and stuff didn’t feel nearly as bad as boneworks or anything. I just the graphics, lack of polish on certain things and level of open ended-ness actually detracted from the experience for me. The more directed approach of Alyx gave me a lot more “wow I’m actually inside this game” experiences than the walking dead did. It still felt very much like a video game to me I guess whereas there were points in Alyx where my brain was legitimately tricked into thinking it was reality. I think part of this was due to me using room scale for most traversal etc, like it really felt like I was exploring real spaces which saints and sinners just didn’t do for me.

I’m a relative newbie to VR and still in my honeymoon phase, but one of my initial impressions is that when a VR game tries to be a normal video game it fails on both fronts; it can’t achieve the normal comfortable loop of a 2d experience and, at the same time, doesn’t take advantage of what’s amazing about VR.

For example, Asgard’s Wrath has been hugely underwhelming. Great reviews but it’s trying to be a normal RPG and ends up being annoying. The melee combat is flat out awful.

 

[Alexios]

I’m a relative newbie to VR and still in my honeymoon phase, but one of my initial impressions is that when a VR game tries to be a normal video game it fails on both fronts; it can’t achieve the normal comfortable loop of a 2d experience and, at the same time, doesn’t take advantage of what’s amazing about VR.

For example, Asgard’s Wrath has been hugely underwhelming. Great reviews but it’s trying to be a normal RPG and ends up being annoying. The melee combat is flat out awful.

None of that applies to Saints & Sinners though. It's got VR DNA through and through and melee is great (and not really in the same context as AW or even Blade & Sorcery, I mean, it's a zombie game, you aren't parrying hits and stuff, you just wrangle zombies and destroy their brains, it's the best zombie interactions in ages).

Also it's not some universal rule given "normal games in VR" are some of the best stuff to play in VR thanks to great mods, from Outer Wilds to Skyrim VR enhanced with mods like HIGGS to the real Half-Life VR lambda1VR (sadly in the Quest version not available for PC and no equal quality mod to match) to Quake VR etc.

I refunded Asgard's Wrath when I first quit (it seemed to have fairly juvenile design and indeed the combat didn't quite click) then saw that by chance I was still within the 2 hour limit and only really have it in my standard recommendations list because of the general concensus being positive with wording to match...

None of that makes Alyx any more ambitious or less by the numbers than it ended up being, plus plenty spots with lack of polish itself, I seriously don't understand how they could even make those parts where teleport is required rather than allowing you to organically crouch around the obstacles or drop down or whatever and somehow think, eh, it's fine as it is, ship it. I guess those who play with teleport only don't get this issue but the overall gameplay's still super simplistic with a few nice set pieces like jeff, the teleporting thingie, the lights out bit and some really simple and with few enemies gunfights sprinkled between. The final bits were like a weirder less empowering rerun of HL2 with the gravity messes and the strider fight being such a scripted boss sequence and not a fight where you decide how to tackle an actual AI was disappointing (I mean it would be a cool precursor if later in the game you actually encountered Striders well and proper but not as the only instance of them). The upgrading was a neat interaction the first time but then just busy work and almost grinding for the currency, I'd prefer they went all in on the linearity and have you find the gun attachments themselves in the environments like some fan missions do. But cool graphics and definitely polished feel for much of it. Lone Echo was an early full VR game and did so much more to offer an engrossing unique experience in VR, even if it didn't have shooting and stuff though. Playing that and indie games and S&W which came out of nowhere from a nobody studio that I don't even know if they had made video games before made Alyx underwhelming to me, I just expected Valve to knock it out of the park since they have invested so in VR for so long and they didn't as far as I'm concerned. Still a must play VR game but not GOTY or all that besides the expected polish and AAA graphics a big production and its narrow scope warrant.

 

[Balducci30]

None of that applies to Saints & Sinners though. It's got VR DNA through and through and melee is great (and not really in the same context as AW or even Blade & Sorcery, I mean, it's a zombie game, you aren't parrying hits and stuff, you just wrangle zombies and destroy their brains, it's the best zombie interactions in ages).

Also it's not some universal rule given "normal games in VR" are some of the best stuff to play in VR thanks to great mods, from Outer Wilds to Skyrim VR enhanced with mods like HIGGS to the real Half-Life VR lambda1VR (sadly in the Quest version not available for PC and no equal quality mod to match) to Quake VR etc.

I refunded Asgard's Wrath when I first quit (it seemed to have fairly juvenile design and indeed the combat didn't quite click) then saw that by chance I was still within the 2 hour limit and only really have it in my standard recommendations list because of the general concensus being positive with wording to match...

None of that makes Alyx any more ambitious or less by the numbers than it ended up being, plus plenty spots with lack of polish itself, I seriously don't understand how they could even make those parts where teleport is required rather than allowing you to organically crouch around the obstacles or drop down or whatever and somehow think, eh, it's fine as it is, ship it. I guess those who play with teleport only don't get this issue but the overall gameplay's still super simplistic with a few nice set pieces like jeff, the teleporting thingie, the lights out bit and some really simple and with few enemies gunfights sprinkled between. The final bits were like a weirder less empowering rerun of HL2 with the gravity messes and the strider fight being such a scripted boss sequence and not a fight where you decide how to tackle an actual AI was disappointing (I mean it would be a cool precursor if later in the game you actually encountered Striders well and proper but not as the only instance of them). The upgrading was a neat interaction the first time but then just busy work and almost grinding for the currency, I'd prefer they went all in on the linearity and have you find the gun attachments themselves in the environments like some fan missions do. But cool graphics and definitely polished feel for much of it. Lone Echo was an early full VR game and did so much more to offer an engrossing unique experience in VR, even if it didn't have shooting and stuff though. Playing that and indie games and S&W which came out of nowhere from a nobody studio that I don't even know if they had made video games before made Alyx underwhelming to me, I just expected Valve to knock it out of the park since they have invested so in VR for so long and they didn't as far as I'm concerned. Still a must play VR game but not GOTY or all that besides the expected polish and AAA graphics a big production and its narrow scope warrant.

Maybe cus I played lone echo after Alyx but it also didn’t feel as immersive. I mean I get people had complaints about the movement but I honestly think the things they simplified for Alyx in VR made it a way better experience than playing anything else I played. Like I’ve played both half life’s, skyrim, blade and sorcery, lone echo - none of it felt on the level to me. It being narrow actually improves the experience imo. The one handed weapons - like it felt like every design decision was the correct choice to make you feel as little disconnect as possible from the real world. Even making teleport the main transportation option - like a mix of teleport and room scale made the disconnect way less intense for me than moving around on foot in most vr games and navigating spaces and edges and levels that just don’t exist in the space I’m in. Like jumping for instance in real life - I’m not feeling like I’m actually jumping up a step or something, feels like I’m just jumping in place - teleport makes sense there. Ladders - I’m not feeling any sense of gravity or like I’m actually climbing a ladder. Removing these areas where you immediately disconnect from what’s happening because it doesn’t feel legit made a lot of sense to me. As far as the firefights I had a lot of fun in them I dunno, people hated on the AI and simplicity of it but I never got tired of it - the only enemy I didn’t really love was those alien bugs - even still didn’t hate em.

 

[Alexios]

None of that makes any sense to me. So you never climbed ladders and things in alyx and only used teleport and somehow popping up a GUI and choosing where to teleport was more immersing than the option for free locomotion both in alyx and other games and more immersing than lone echo's locomotion. Each to their own.

Though that doesn't make it any less of a problem for people who opted for free locomotion and they found that in certain parts it's not an option and they have to use the magical GUI to teleport through some obstacles or whatever, in some cases it doesn't even look like it'd be a problem to simply let you physically get by as is:


Curious, does that extend to interactions with levers/cranks, would you find less disconnect there if instead of having you manually do the actions with no resistance/weight in real life you just had some magical GUI to manipulate that object? Or is that lack of tactile feedback okay when it comes to that and the weapons and all?

I mean, all actions in Saints & Sinners also have vibration and what not, the simplistic haptics the controllers allow for, but apparently manipulating zombies and crushing their brains in that game is disconnecting because they have no real weight in real life while actions such as the above in Alyx are all good? Double standards?

If that's the best of VR to you then perhaps you'd enjoy the Budget Cuts games even more since they at least give teleportation more of an in-theme presentation and don't even have the option for anything else (well, some bonus options/mods may have added free locomotion but it's not the primary/intended way to play them).

Or games like SUPERHOT VR which have neither teleportation nor anything else, they're confined to the room scale experience alone, however that limits the rest of their gameplay design (ie no moving around whole levels as you do in SUPERHOT) as you don't mind a narrower simpler focus a problem if the polish is there (it is).

Seems like the less a game does the better VR it is to you, to me it would be a pretty boring medium if all we got to do in VR is all we can do in real life, crazy to think pushing/pulling on the environment and having you propel in zero g is bad to you because you aren't in zero g in real life. But again each to their own, I'm glad devs do more and never did I believe Alyx is real life anyway, they're all clearly video games, some better than others, and to me plenty are better than Alyx or at least show Alyx should have been a lot better given its production history and how late it arrived compared to others and still managed to mess up certain things regardless.

 

[Type_Raver]

Jeff level started out interesting but I was pretty happy to get past that level sooner than later, not as enjoyable.

But those crabs, especially the armoured ones which you have to flip over to expose their weak side, oof!

Love the game, and my avatar is one of my favourite moments in the game!

 

[Balducci30]

None of that makes any sense to me. So you never climbed ladders and things in alyx and only used teleport and somehow popping up a GUI and choosing where to teleport was more immersing than the option for free locomotion both in alyx and other games and more immersing than lone echo's locomotion. Each to their own.

Though that doesn't make it any less of a problem for people who opted for free locomotion and they found that in certain parts it's not an option and they have to use the magical GUI to teleport through some obstacles or whatever, in some cases it doesn't even look like it'd be a problem to simply let you physically get by as is:


Curious, does that extend to interactions with levers/cranks, would you find less disconnect there if instead of having you manually do the actions with no resistance/weight in real life you just had some magical GUI to manipulate that object? Or is that lack of tactile feedback okay when it comes to that and the weapons and all?

If that's the best of VR to you then perhaps you'd enjoy the Budget Cuts games even more since they at least give teleportation more of an in-theme presentation and don't even have the option for anything else (well, some bonus options/mods may have added free locomotion but it's not the primary/intended way to play them).

Or games like SUPERHOT VR which have neither teleportation nor anything else, they're confined to the room scale experience alone, however that limits the rest of their gameplay design (ie no moving around whole levels as you do in SUPERHOT) as you don't mind a narrower simpler focus a problem if the polish is there.

Eh I don’t really need an in universe explanation for teleporting as it doesn’t really break the immersion for me. Just felt intuitive compared to other locomotion options - like the moving without actually moving thing or even in lone echo the floating but I don’t really feel like I’m floating and I feel my feet on the floor. It’s less about the in game explanation of it, or the intellectual disconnect and more the feeling that results in the disconnect. As far as objects when I picked them up having the haptic feedback and them moving at the speed my hand was moving in real life made it work for me - same with like the haptic feedback when touching a wall, etc. I guess it just signals to my brain a bit more that it’s real vs a game. Really the main things that would usually take me out of Alyx were more things like - oh I can’t use this object completely like real life like I can’t open the box of matches and pick them out and sometimes the baked lighting. And the cord. Again less of an intellectual thing and just my brain recognizing it wasn’t real.

But I liked budget cuts and superhot - they both worked well for what they were, they just weren’t nearly on Alyx’s level imo. Probably my second favorite first person type of game would be like virtual virtual reality? That didn’t exactly fool me into thinking I was in reality but it did feel like I was inside the game to a degree.

I mean maybe if I had one of those treadmills or something, like a full set up. But even then that’s where I felt like Alyx excelled was the minimizing of the feeling I wasn’t doing any of this for real. Using teleport and room scale was really crazy immersive for me so having the treadmill thing would probably make it even more so. I really don’t find free locomotion to be a good alternative - I can handle it physically but my brain immediately ramps down the feeling of it being in a real place doing that.

EDIT: I would love it if somehow it got to the level with VR where there was like a haptic suit that fully or partially simulated everything - or at least gave the suggestion to signal my brain a bit - using that as well as a treadmill system or some gigantic werehouse type deal with geography matching the game and graphics to match would be my ultimate video game experience probably.