-
Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!
Foreigners-in-Japan-Age: Is this real?
- Thread starter itxaka
- Start date
- Status
Kaervas said:
because Football was created in Europe, its strongest leagues are in Europe and European teams predominately make up the latter stages of the world cup. The last world cup's semi finals only featured European nations.
Some of the world's greatest players though have come from South America.
Try and guess which country my avatar is from. 
SupahBlah said:because Football was created in Europe, its strongest leagues are in Europe and European teams predominately make up the latter stages of the world cup. The last world cup's semi finals only featured European nations.
Some of the world's greatest players though have come from South America.
Try and guess which country my avatar is from.
Un grande el jefecito! La unica gallina que pone huevos!
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
tnw said:
Why is that? Do you honestly think all of the Koreans were dragged to Japan against their will as forced labor? It was much more a similar situation with Indians going to Britain or Vietnamese going to France. There were more opportunities for work in the land of their colonial ruler than in their homeland. Did they want to go? Probably not, but the actual cases of Koreans being forcibly brought to Japan by Japanese is much smaller than the amount of Koreans who were forced by their family or their financial situations to go work in Japan so they could potentially improve their lives.
I agree they have plenty of reason to dislike Japan and the Japanese, but if that is the case, why did they continue to reside in Japan and not go back home?
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
Tsubaki said:
I find that highly suspect. It is extremely easy and even encouraged for zainichi to naturalize and take on Japanese names. I know a few who have naturalized and quite a few others who choose to stay with their Korean / North Korean citizenships.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
SupahBlah said:because Football was created in Europe, its strongest leagues are in Europe and European teams predominately make up the latter stages of the world cup. The last world cup's semi finals only featured European nations.
Some of the world's greatest players though have come from South America.
Try and guess which country my avatar is from.
Didn't Brazil win in 2002, though?
Kaervas said:
Google said:
What was I said that was wrong? The African players are good and their national sides are progressing where as the South American sides other than Brazil and Argentina are regressing. No African side has reached the semi finals of the World Cup.
Zefah said:
They did, beating Germany. The last world cup was in 2006 which Italy won.
TAJ
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
klausbert said:
I thought the thread would be about this. I heard something about little kids in Japan trying to grab Westerners' junk out of curiosity about our size. (despite needing erections to really tell the difference) I don't know if there is any truth to that.
Whatever the case may be, most asians in Japan aren't treated very nicely. We watched a movie about some zainichi kids. Why the hell should they have to take a Japanese name? That's just silly.
Japan has done wrong against the Koreans. Yes some benefited moving to Japan or whatever, but the fact remains that Japan has done nowhere near the kind of remediation that Germany has. It annoys the hell out of me how Japan and Japanese just pretend that the 20's, 30's, and 40's just never happened.
Japan has done wrong against the Koreans. Yes some benefited moving to Japan or whatever, but the fact remains that Japan has done nowhere near the kind of remediation that Germany has. It annoys the hell out of me how Japan and Japanese just pretend that the 20's, 30's, and 40's just never happened.
My memorable anecdotal bit about foreigners in Japan: I was in an intensive Chinese language program with a Princeton grad who had previously studied and lived in Japan (and has a Japanese wife)--he basically said you wouldn't be allowed to get very far in the large Japanese corporations if you were a foreigner, whilst companies in other Asian countries are more welcoming to foreigners and often have foreigners amongst their highest ranks.
Why should the current Japan have to suffer for what some people who aren't even alive any more did? Money should NOT be taken out of the Japanese economy during now of all times just for some kind of international friendship, when it could be going to schools, hospitals, etc.tnw said:
Hell, even back then the intention was good. The East Asia Prosperity Sphere was a GOOD IDEA at the time - basically an asian rival to what would become NATO and the soviet union. It became corrupted by certain individuals within the Japanese empire. A corrupt government completely thrown out an replaced by a US-selected govt.
Now, let me rephrase this another way. If the Chinese Communist Party was overthrown and replaced by a democratic party that did it's best to move away from the past and change, would it be right to hit that new govt. with demands for all amounts of money for what the previous administration did?
Kuro Madoushi
Unconfirmed Member
I'm Chinese and visited Japan for about 11 days. I also went with my Korean wife, and I never saw or felt any racism.
Of course, I wasn't going to any seedy parts of town where I do hear foreigners are discriminated against. And I had a Japanese buddy guide us all around to take care of any misunderstandings, but all in all, it was a fantastic trip.
I agree that Japan shouldn't have to suffer for what they did in the past. And I get into arguments about Japanese PMs rights to visit war shrines and not having to apologize.
However, unless you've read more about that stupid Co-Prosperity Sphere, I don't think you really know what it was about. It wasn't corrupted by certain individuals, it was merely a polite way of saying "Japan rules East Asia, Chinese and Koreans are laborers." Make no mistake, the Co-Prosperity Sphere didn't have Asia's interests at heart, but Japan's interests.
Of course, I wasn't going to any seedy parts of town where I do hear foreigners are discriminated against. And I had a Japanese buddy guide us all around to take care of any misunderstandings, but all in all, it was a fantastic trip.
Sage00 said:
I agree that Japan shouldn't have to suffer for what they did in the past. And I get into arguments about Japanese PMs rights to visit war shrines and not having to apologize.
However, unless you've read more about that stupid Co-Prosperity Sphere, I don't think you really know what it was about. It wasn't corrupted by certain individuals, it was merely a polite way of saying "Japan rules East Asia, Chinese and Koreans are laborers." Make no mistake, the Co-Prosperity Sphere didn't have Asia's interests at heart, but Japan's interests.
TAJ said:
I know a few black people who have been to japan and each time thats pretty much the first thing I ask (since i will find a way to make a visit there soon or later). And each one said yes...it's a problem, especially in bars. One or two also specifically mentioned something called "kancho". Whatever that is.
As opposed to the British, French and other western imperialist governments the Japanese imperials drove out who did the same?Kuro Madoushi said:
The sphere at least started out as an attempt to isolate Chinese markets from the US, and while this was mainly in Japan's interest, getting it away from the US was much more important to them. But you're right, it was mainly a nice name for the racist Japanese empire.
But we honestly don't know how it would've turned out. Every imperial takeover starts with an outside revolution. If you look at the roman empire or the British commonwealth in Europe and Africa - at first the occupied countries were used as inferior slaves, but through time things changed and the countries eventually prospered under foreign rule. Without the romans the world probably wouldn't have had a proper sewage system for another hundred years, and we'd most likely be living in an equivalent of the 1800s right now.
On the business issue, yeah there aren't many foreign higher ups.
But you could mainly attribute that to foreigners not being able to understand the Japanese system. In Japan if you're respected, no matter what you do, you will NOT be fired. At worst you'll be moved to a desk job a la Sakaguchi, Kutaragi. A foreigner would likely just get rid of the person. The idea of work before personal life is again a concept that's pretty different, I couldn't see a foreigner having his entire staff stay entire week in the office to finish a project. And we know how many business meetings take place in soaplands etc.. where a foreigner probably wouldn't even be allowed in.
Stringer was chosen to specifically to "un-Japanize" Sony, which pretty much solidifies they don't believe foreigners can understand their methods.
Edit: Double post. :/
But you could mainly attribute that to foreigners not being able to understand the Japanese system. In Japan if you're respected, no matter what you do, you will NOT be fired. At worst you'll be moved to a desk job a la Sakaguchi, Kutaragi. A foreigner would likely just get rid of the person. The idea of work before personal life is again a concept that's pretty different, I couldn't see a foreigner having his entire staff stay entire week in the office to finish a project. And we know how many business meetings take place in soaplands etc.. where a foreigner probably wouldn't even be allowed in.
Stringer was chosen to specifically to "un-Japanize" Sony, which pretty much solidifies they don't believe foreigners can understand their methods.
Edit: Double post. :/
We don't know how the Asian situation would've turned out, but going by previous history.. was the point I was trying to make there.Azih said:
And I would have to give one example: Hong Kong would most certainly not be what it is today without the British occupation, just as Japan would not be what it is today without the post-war American occupation.
And the point I was making is that we don't know how the heck the Roman situation would have turned out without the Romans.Sage00 said:
There are plenty of countries who have taken advantage of their colonial past (after kicking the colonialists out I will repeat), but there are just as many countries who are still haunted by it. Rwanda and Iraq as two examples. Going by previous history of course.
BudokaiMR2
Member
Azih said:
Yes, it really is.
It is just a way to have a standardized way of identifying foreigners. It actually made life EASIER for me for my first few months. Japanese paperwork was a pain in the ass and I had no idea what I was looking at half the time. I could just hand over the gaijin card and get them to fill in where it needs to go lol.
And its really not like I have to show this every time I get on a train or something. I have actually never been asked for it at random by a police officer or anything after two years in Japan.
The article has its facts straight but it is written in a really bitter anti-japanese tone. It just seems like he is blowing things out of proportion.
There is definitely racism in Japan(just like any other country) but it's not like the entire country is trying to drive us out.
The whole attitude towards Koreans is a bit different of a problem and I have heard some comments before that made me cringe a bit.
I am actually amazed that no one brings up the fact that until recently Korea was BANNING certain aspects of Japanese pop-culture. But Japan, who has yong-jackass plastered over pachinko machines gets all the attention...
rykomatsu
Member
itxaka said:
This is true. Call me racist but, myself included, a lot of us don't like being grouped with chinese/korean/vietnamese/etc. Call it a sense of nationalistic pride, racism, whatever. It is what it is. Hell, there are even strained tensions between Japanese and Japanese-Americans as well...this doesn't see the light of day too often, but it's there.
Just like a good amount of racism in the US, a good chunk of it just held inside...but gossip is plentiful.
I've encountered very little racism in my time here (what I have experienced is usually in the form of ignorance from my students or from older people), although recently I was a little mistreated at a restaurant and then a convenience store, all on the same day. But I'm caucasian and I have always heard it's non-Japanese Asians or blacks that can have it bad. There's a story floaiting around about a Japanese/Filipino man and his brother that were stopped and harrassed by the police about their Alien cards/passports (they don't carry them since they ARE Japanese citizens) that was disturbing to read.
But he still wouldn't be considered a "true" Japanese by the Japanese...he's simply now recognized as a citizen.
For anyone wondering, if you do this you have to renounce your home country citizenship, have a perfect command of the language, AND change your name. The first two requirements make sense, but that last one...
Yeah, never once had a problem with my Alien card. It's really nothing more than a typical I.D. and I rarely ever have to show it. In fact since I have a Japanese drivers' license, I can just show that instead most of the time.
sp0rsk said:
But he still wouldn't be considered a "true" Japanese by the Japanese...he's simply now recognized as a citizen.
For anyone wondering, if you do this you have to renounce your home country citizenship, have a perfect command of the language, AND change your name. The first two requirements make sense, but that last one...
Yeah, never once had a problem with my Alien card. It's really nothing more than a typical I.D. and I rarely ever have to show it. In fact since I have a Japanese drivers' license, I can just show that instead most of the time.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
numble said:
You can get just as far as anyone as long as you adapt to the system. When you are a foreigner living in Japan who doesn't try to adapt, then you will of course be excluded. It would be just the same if some foreigner came to any country and tried to play by their home country's rules instead of adapting to the local rules.
Ether_Snake
å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®
Japan is doomed economically. It will just take a bit more time.
Any nation that still holds deer to racism and superstition is bound to fail on an economic level.
1- By making their country unattractive to foreigners (that's why I stopped learning Japanese) they will have a lack of qualified workforce to compete with the rest of the world in various fields, because they will rely mostly on Japanese, which are getting fewer and fewer as families shrink and the population gets older.
2- This will eventually force Japan to rely on other countries, but since their pride and racism will remain strong this reliance will only cement those two negative cultural traits.
3- Superstition also drives some of Japan's economic and business decisions, which is completely pointless and dangerous for their economy.
Any nation that still holds deer to racism and superstition is bound to fail on an economic level.
1- By making their country unattractive to foreigners (that's why I stopped learning Japanese) they will have a lack of qualified workforce to compete with the rest of the world in various fields, because they will rely mostly on Japanese, which are getting fewer and fewer as families shrink and the population gets older.
2- This will eventually force Japan to rely on other countries, but since their pride and racism will remain strong this reliance will only cement those two negative cultural traits.
3- Superstition also drives some of Japan's economic and business decisions, which is completely pointless and dangerous for their economy.
BudokaiMR2
Member
skybaby said:
I'm sorry but I have never even seen one of those.
It is a really rare occurrence and I only know one person who has ever seen one.
Oh and take some foreigner to a dive in the middle of Alabama. You think those places need signs? lol
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
Lyte Edge said:
You do not need to change your name. It is simply highly recommended that the person who naturalizes take on a Kanji name, but it is completely optional. You won't have your naturalization request denied because you decide to use a Katakana name.
You also don't need to have a "perfect" command of the language. There is a Japanese test, but I've heard it is around the level of a Japanese third-grader so it's not like you need to have an adult-level command of the language. They just want to make sure you have enough language ability to operate in society.
pirateben said:
Except that I never carried mine, never was told to carry it at all times, and never had anybody give a shit if I had it or not or ask for it.
Does Japan have some inexcusable differences for Japanese and non-Japanese? Absolutely. the part about becoming a true Japanese citizen being impossible or nearly impossible for foreigners is pretty much true, from what I know. And you'll occasionally find people who aren't friendly towards foreigners, which isn't surprising when you consider the fact that a majority of Japanese people will never meet a non-Asian foreigner in their lifetime.
In the year I spent living there (and the countless other trips I've made), I can't think of any example of a time when I as a foreigner in the country felt unwelcome or unwanted in the slightest. My friend (and at the time roommate) is black, and the only example of any kind of prejudice I can remember him running into was when he couldn't go to a spa because he has a tattoo. At worst, from time to time I'd run into people who were too afraid to deal with me, due to a worry about being able to communicate on either end.
Is the country still lagging behind in its efforts in dealing with foreigners? Sure. But as one who has been there, it's not the scary place this guy wants to make it sound, and you shouldn't be worried about police treatment or having to always carry the proper ID. (I mean, it's always good to have some sort of ID on you in case there's a problem, but I was never afraid of leaving my apartment without it.)
As well, thought it may not be popular, I think Japan has the right to severely limit or not want foreigners at all if that's their choice. No country should be forced to take in people from other countries, and nobody should be able to tell them that how to run their immigration policies. Seeing as how I have a wife who is Japanese, and we'd like to head back over there to live for at least some length of time, obviously my opinion is that I would hope they would accept me in... but I'm not so sure I have the right or place to demand that of them.
Article said:
The first part is complete and utter BS. Can't hold hands in public? What the hell? Japanese guys aren't as aggressive as, say, American men on average from those that I knew, so it wasn't surprising to see Japanese girls making the first moves. But lacking flirting skills? This guy certainly doesn't know some of the girls I do over there.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
Ether_Snake said:
Wow you got it all figured out don't you. (sarcasm)
Japan already relies on other countries for its economy. Where do you think they get most of their energy resources and food from? Where do you think most of their electronics and cars go to?
A shrinking population isn't necessarily a bad thing for Japan's economy either. There are many who argue that Japan's population is too large given the size of the country. Assuming the population decline continues as it is, it is expected that Japan will have around 75,000,000 people after 50 years. This is still more than Britain, for example, which has a population of 60,000,000.
Anyway, if you think Japan's economy is doomed you obviously know nothing about the country. They are just coming out of a long recession and Japanese companies are mobilizing and changing their focus from the national economy to a global one.
itxaka said:
That's only half as bad. Japanese kids think they are "white" and not "yellow". Makes you wonder right?
rykomatsu said:
Well, any country has nationalistic pride so Japanese or Chinese or Koreans not wanting to be referred as this one whole 'Asian' race is understandable. I'm sure the French, British or the Germans wouldn't like to be lumped as 'Europeans'.
Not necessarily a racist thing, but when Westerners can't tell the difference between a Japanese, Korean, Chinese, Vietnamese and other Asians...when I came to the US for the first time, I thought "wtf man?". And then when I look at Westerners who speak English with no distinguishable foreign accent, I can't tell if they are from France, Germany, Russian etc. unless they spoke their respective languages. So I realize it goes both ways.
I saw something a year ago about the transformation of Japan's workforce advancing robotic development or something to that effect. It said they are ahead of the curve as far as the evolution of their workforce due to a decreasing population. The situation and their supposed 'head start' was compared to the switch from a manufacturing workforce to a tech one.Ether_Snake said:
This isn't the original article I read - I think it was a CNN report - but the message is the same:
http://epiac1216.wordpress.com/2008/03/04/japan-bets-on-robots-to-solve-population-problems/
Of course I don't believe their model is the next evolution of the workforce as I don't see the U.S. population decreasing anytime soon.
Can't argue there. Robots can't do everything.
I'm no economist but they seem to be doing alright to me.
BudokaiMR2 said:
lol and it turns back to america.
Ok people, time to settle some shit. Take it from a black man. The south is not this dangerous place where you'll get murdered if you're not white.
unless we are talking about alabama
holy asscock that place scares the shit out of me.
Ether_Snake
å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®
Formless said:
Oh and I forgot another one:
Sexual discrimination!
That is also playing against them on an economical level too. Half Japan's population is held back in the business world, prevented from contributing as much as men can.
That counts for something too. But I guess some see pride as a positive trait (when in fact it is like a disease, only good to blind you and slow progress and repeat mistakes).
- Status