CrazyKoopa18 said:
an excerpt from one of the pages from that site (http://www.debito.org/rapporteur.html)
What the hell ?
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Foreigners-in-Japan-Age: Is this real?
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an excerpt from one of the pages from that site (http://www.debito.org/rapporteur.html)
What the hell ?
Oh yeah, the Ainu. Americans did the same (or perhaps worse) to Native Americans, though.
Burakumin ARE Japanese, BTW. The issue with them goes back to the feudal era as they were the lowest class.
Also, uh...anyone who isn't visiting the country is "living there."
Look, some good points have been made in this thread. Do I think in regards to all the Americans/Canadians/Europeans/Australians/New Zealanders that go to Japan, there are plenty of problems stemming from people not wanting to adapt to certain aspects of Japanese culture and then complaining because they're too fucking stupid to realize that this isn't their own country and things are different? (The same people that bitch about people not being able to spean English back in the States, incidentally) ABSOLUTELY. There are some real retards that come over here, be it college grads looking to extend their party tour and get piss drunk like they did in their frats, or "otaku" that can't wait to come to "ANIME LAND SO KAWAIIIII~ ^o^/ " and go to maid cafes.
But if you think discrimination and racism doesn't exist, and if you think everything is fine if you just do a few things to "adapt," you've been smoking some strong shit.
Sol.. said:
Burakumin ARE Japanese, BTW. The issue with them goes back to the feudal era as they were the lowest class.
Also, uh...anyone who isn't visiting the country is "living there."
Look, some good points have been made in this thread. Do I think in regards to all the Americans/Canadians/Europeans/Australians/New Zealanders that go to Japan, there are plenty of problems stemming from people not wanting to adapt to certain aspects of Japanese culture and then complaining because they're too fucking stupid to realize that this isn't their own country and things are different? (The same people that bitch about people not being able to spean English back in the States, incidentally) ABSOLUTELY. There are some real retards that come over here, be it college grads looking to extend their party tour and get piss drunk like they did in their frats, or "otaku" that can't wait to come to "ANIME LAND SO KAWAIIIII~ ^o^/ " and go to maid cafes.
But if you think discrimination and racism doesn't exist, and if you think everything is fine if you just do a few things to "adapt," you've been smoking some strong shit.
Don't forget, there are places in Japan that, as a foreigner, you will not be allowed to frequent. Stores, restaurants, things like that.
http://www.debito.org/roguesgallery.html
I see it was mentioned earlier. Anyway, a friend of mine who was working in Japan for about a month (as an employee of a Honda subdivision) witnessed one of these signs himself. It was at a restaurant where they served western style steaks and other food. His co-worker told him not to come in, as he was unwelcome, and went in alone to get food for the two of them.
http://www.debito.org/roguesgallery.html
I see it was mentioned earlier. Anyway, a friend of mine who was working in Japan for about a month (as an employee of a Honda subdivision) witnessed one of these signs himself. It was at a restaurant where they served western style steaks and other food. His co-worker told him not to come in, as he was unwelcome, and went in alone to get food for the two of them.
Ether_Snake
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Sage00 said:
Oh so you're racist? Those dirty immigrants they don't want to be no American?
Fact is, there is no other country on Earth where people of so many different origins consider themselves natives of the country they live than in the US. If you feel things are changing and this is no longer the case, that's your problem, a problem of education or a social issue related to new developments in the current state of the USA. But fact is you'll never find so many "foreigners" say "I'm American!" as you would find foreigners in France say "I'm French!" or Germany "I'm German!" or Japan "I'm Japanese!".
The strength of the US has relied on its flexibility and lack of culture enforcement. People become Americans because they are happy to do so, and even people abroad listen and watch American music, TV, and movies, because American "culture" is appealing to all and not reliant on traditions or its own history and it is inclusive.
American "culture" is not a culture, it is a result that is ever changing. There is a difference between culture and law or constitution. There is no other country in the world where there has been as much progress on racism, sexual discrimination, etc., than in the US. Other Western nations follow this ideal, and as a whole this is what has made the West so strong and so appealing, even to the most backward and self-centered cultures of the world. This is why Western "culture" is so broadly present across the world, and this presence will continue to grow if Western countries keep their lead, to the point where all countries of the world will have to rid themselves of the obstacles that slow their growth such as racism, sexual discrimination, traditions, superstition, etc. It is inevitable, lest a nation wishes to fall behind.
Zefah said:
Europeans win in Europe(except 58), South Americans win in the Americas. The number of non-European/American World Cups is not yet large enough to make a prediction for 2010, though I think a European team will take it. It'll be in the middle of bloody winter, after all!
Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
sp0rsk said:
It is hard to become Japanese but yeah and in the States if you aren't holding a passport you'd have to carry your green card always.
Also as an adult in the States you almost HAVE to carry ID on you at all times anyways
Okay, let's not go overboard here. If you're going to visit Japan, you're not going to run into trouble (unless you go looking for it). The issues being discussed here are from people living in the country. There's a difference between visiting and living anywhere.
I think you're missing a bigger issue here, which is that these people were taken from their land and forcibly brought to Japan. But obviously much like the blacks that were brought over as slaves to the States and elsewhere, this is all their fault, and how dare they want to retain their ethnicity and keep their names! They should just go back home to Korea!
Sage00 said:
I think you're missing a bigger issue here, which is that these people were taken from their land and forcibly brought to Japan. But obviously much like the blacks that were brought over as slaves to the States and elsewhere, this is all their fault, and how dare they want to retain their ethnicity and keep their names! They should just go back home to Korea!
Steriletom
Member
Sage00 said:
Are you talking about first name or last name. This is important.
Ether_Snake
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Didn't Bashcraft of Kotaku report on something similar once? Police came to his place, knocked on his door, asked for foreigner ID and all. No reason given.
Oh come, it's not like they're being held there now.Lyte Edge said:
They can go to Korea if they want to, but they won't. Maybe because Japan's economy is stronger, maybe because they only know Japanese, maybe because all their family is in Japan. Either way, they're making a conscious choice to stay in Japan. They want to be identified as being different, yet still be treated the same?
It's a bit like if you have a.. uhh.. band. And the band has a.. uniform. :lol
Okay, so the whole band wears red. Except the singers says to the other member "hey guys, I'm wearing blue ok? but you still wear red. and i still want to be the singer". It comes off as almost a little arrogant.
Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
Steriletom said:
It is family name, since that comes from your father.
My friend is half Korean and Half Japanese. He didn't even have the choice to be Japanese he was Korean from the get. Born here, can't speak Korean the whole nine..
He is only 35 years old so it is not like he was born right after WWII..
Compared to a half born American child who is both until they are 18 and then they get to decide
In my year living there full time and my many trips there for a month here and there I never once experienced any of this nonsense. The reality is they treat you like a Rock Star and it drove me mental. After a year I wanted to be anonymous so bad I turned down a great job very high up the cooperate ladder. I already ran a dev team there and they would have handed me the whole division. I already had a wife and family so the lure of the Japanese women didn't appeal to me.
Sage00 said:
Dude, america was a bunch of europeans, natives and slaves mixed together and forming their own separated communities thus giving you brazil (portuguese), south america (spanish), canada (french) and north america (english) so that country (whole america) was created like your mentined mini-countries
Blackace said:
So then that is important to many members of this forum!
Sage00 said:Oh come, it's not like they're being held there now.
They can go to Korea if they want to, but they won't. Maybe because Japan's economy is stronger, maybe because they only know Japanese, maybe because all their family is in Japan. Either way, they're making a conscious choice to stay in Japan. They want to be identified as being different, yet still be treated the same?
Wow.
Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
Sage00 said:Oh come, it's not like they're being held there now.
They can go to Korea if they want to, but they won't. Maybe because Japan's economy is stronger, maybe because they only know Japanese, maybe because all their family is in Japan. Either way, they're making a conscious choice to stay in Japan. They want to be identified as being different, yet still be treated the same?
It's a bit like if you have a.. uhh.. band. And the band has a.. uniform. :lol
Okay, so the whole band wears red. Except the singers says to the other member "hey guys, I'm wearing blue ok? but you still wear red. and i still want to be the singer". It comes off as almost a little arrogant.
no... this is just stupid. Being someone who both sides of my family tree have been shit on by slavery (Irish and Black) I cannot even begin to tell you how backwards your thinking is
Blackace said:
Goddammit, I know Chinese/Koreans who were born there or migrating are fucked hard. And people have said here that they or a friend had been asked for their foreigner IDs. And then there's people saying the experience was totally painless, but the painless guys AFAIK have been white.
Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
Apharmd said:
?? my friend is Chinese lives here and has no problems. But he holds a Aussie passport (both parents are Chinese tho) I have been asked and stopped by police waaaaay more than he has and I am not Chinese or Asian, but I am black..
Really, I have no problem with the ID thing. I'm guessing that it's not like you have to show it wherever you go. We all carry (at least most Americans) IDs everywhere we go, anyway.
I find the issues that Blacklace is talking about more serious (as in, serious since the ID thing isn't serious at all.)
I find the issues that Blacklace is talking about more serious (as in, serious since the ID thing isn't serious at all.)
Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
Sage00 said:
yeah you don't know.
And they are not offering. It is a known fact that they tried a few times to ship of the Koreans that they brought into their country as slaves because they didn't want them to become Japanese.
Look I could become Japanese and keep my last name. Why should it be different for Koreans than me?
Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
itxaka said:
They use a lot of second hand stereotypes. America media and movies are what not doesn't help (well it does help a bit as hip-hop becomes more popular Japanese people want to learn about blacks more but they still carry a thug image, which they think is cool but whatever). Also whites in general means American/British to many Japanese.
If you really believe where your distant family lived a long time ago is really relevant to who you are today then.. well, that's another issue for another thread.Lyte Edge said:
Fact is, it's just a piece of land. 5000 years ago, it wasn't even Korea.
I don't see why people don't just do what makes sense, at that particular moment. Is it too much to ask, really? Or does the Korean pride stop them. See, it works both ways?
I believe that is an oversight in the system, perhaps caused by post-WW2 law alteration by the American puppet government.Blackace said:
By all means to be fair you should also have to change your name.
Wow, I've been reading your name incorrectly all this time :lolBlackace said:
I was actually thinking of Japan when I said that. I haven't had that much problem in the US, but that's probably because my high school was almost all white. You would think this would be bad for me, but almost all my friends were high as well. Thus, perhaps no white person would've dared picked on me or hurled racial slurs because they were afraid of the consequences. :shrug:
When I think about it, I'm not sure what I would do if someone bullied (I couldn't think of a better word. I curse the odd chinese translations I've been reading).
BudokaiMR2
Member
Blackace said:
hahaha I remember making that mistake once in another thread
Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
Sage00 said:
No it doesn't. You don't have to change your name to be able to live somewhere. As long as you can speak and understand the language and culture, the fact that your name is different has ZERO meaning to being assimilated into a culture. How does changing your name just because you are Korean or Chinese make any sense? AND WHY DO WESTERNS NOT HAVE TO DO THAT?? Answer that with logic please
rotaryspirit
Member
Just my own person tip: Don't use Debito quotes in an argument. He's a very "special" individual that just likes to stir the pot and cause tons of trouble. While he's got some useful information on his site, take most of what he says with a grain of salt. I just say.. if you go looking for trouble, you'll find it - that's true no matter where you go. You are always going to find some kind of racism in some part of the world. People like Debito are the opposite of what you want in this world - he's a crusader for himself first and foremost, angry about a whole host of things, and generally a very unlikeable guy in person. You can definitely tell right away from listening to him talk how his co-workers in Japan would not like this guy.
zoku88 said:
you think that was incorrect? when I learned about the meaning of blackface in the USA and that is considered racist I was blow up thinking that he was black and had that name...It took me about 5/6 weeks to realize that his name wasn´t that. I have never feel such and idiot and ashamed at the same time.
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