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[cvxfreak]

...shouldn't you do that in ANY foreign country?

Carrying foreign ID cards is standard practice in lots of countries, the article is just using it to paint Japan in a bad light since it's relevant to the whole zainichi business.

I asked the hotel staff in Taiwan and they told me to leave it at the hotel.

My Japanese and American ID would have sufficed there according to them.

 

[RevenantKioku]

I asked the hotel staff in Taiwan and they told me to leave it at the hotel.

My Japanese and American ID would have sufficed there according to them.

Yeah, because if you never came back, free passport!

 

[Google]

I asked the hotel staff in Taiwan and they told me to leave it at the hotel.

My Japanese and American ID would have sufficed there according to them.

Told you to leave what at the hotel?

 

[jsrv]

Although Japan became a member of the U.N. International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination in 1995, it has yet to establish a national law to prevent discrimination.

Did they do anything about this yet?

not really. But laws take forever to take effect here...like forever

Is there any pressure for them to do so?

interesting books by the way, gotta remember to stop by at the library.

 

[Azih]

Sure, why not.

The process is called assimilation, which means "to render similar". As well as making the words on your passport similar, why not your name? It really does make sense.

God I'm glad I live in Canada, am Canadian and didn't have to freaking change my name to do so.

 

[Google]

God I'm glad I live in Canada, am Canadian and didn't have to freaking change my name to do so.

Are you French-Canadian, Italian-Canadian, Portuguese-Canadian, Dutch-Canadian?...

 

[Fatghost]

God I'm glad I live in Canada, am Canadian and didn't have to freaking change my name to do so.

Most people in Canada used to change their name to better fit in.

And whenever I'm in a foreign country I always carry my passport with me at all times. I don't see why having to carry your ID is such a big deal.

 

[Google]

Most people in Canada used to change their name to better fit in.

Indeed...

You don't see too many Grossmuller's running about these days.

 

[Azih]

I am Canadian
I am Pakistani


The grandest thing being that both of these aren't mutually exclusive *in the slightest*. It's really quite amazing.

I have adapted to my country, and my country has adapted to immigrants. Hell I think this is the only country in the world where after a census showed where immigrants are congregating local newspaper editorials came out complaining about how *their* communities weren't getting enough immigrants and how to attract and accomodate more.

http://www.brantfordexpositor.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=970900

Sometimes I forget how damn lucky I am.

 

[mollipen]

Japanese culture is full of deep seeded racism, but then so is Australian culture. Hell, the White Australia Policy was still around in the 70's. The sexual culture over in Japan is what really disturbs me. Women in Japan don't seem to enjoy sex the way women in the west do, despite there being no anatomical difference.

Japanese women not enjoying sex, by the way, is also complete BS. The problem they have is that society doesn't encourage them to be free and open about their sexuality like, say, American society does. Combine them with Japanese men who are locked into their own mindset, and things continue on along that path.

That is not to say that they don't enjoy sex, and can't be open about what they like or what they want. They just need a bit of encouragement in letting them know that it's fun and healthy to enjoy sex and be open with their partner about what they like or don't like, versus Western women who at this point don't really need to be encouraged in that regard.

 

[jsrv]

I am Canadian
I am Pakistani


The grandest thing being that both of these aren't mutually exclusive *in the slightest*. It's really quite amazing.

I have adapted to my country, and my country has adapted to immigrants. Hell I think this is the only country in the world where after a census showed where immigrants are congregating local newspaper editorials came out complaining about how *their* coummunities weren't getting enough immigrants and how to attract and accomodate more.

http://www.brantfordexpositor.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=970900

Sometimes I forget how damn lucky I am.

Canada, huh
Japan could learn from Canada on that if their foreign population ever rises significantly above ~1.2%

 

[Google]

I am Canadian

I've always found it very strange that Canada has a national identity problem - it's not quite sure what it wants to be, and the 37 million people who live here also seem to have identity issues also.

5th generation Italians, with blonde hair and blue eyes through decades of cross-breeding who still believe their Sicilian blood rules all, and hate Portuguese-Canadians simply because...

It's laughable at times, but sad at others...

 

[darscot]

I've always found it very strange that Canada has a national identity problem - it's not quite sure what it wants to be, and the 37 million people who live here also seem to have identity issues also.

5th generation Italians, with blonde hair and blue eyes through decades of cross-breeding who still believe their Sicilian blood rules all, and hate Portuguese-Canadians simply because...

It's laughable at times, but sad at others...

We have an identity problem?! I've never seen any evidence of this? Pretty much all immigrants are Canadian first by the second generation. Sure they all keep the culture of their homeland but their just as Canadian as anyone else.

 

[Brak]

I've always found it very strange that Canada has a national identity problem - it's not quite sure what it wants to be, and the 37 million people who live here also seem to have identity issues also.

5th generation Italians, with blonde hair and blue eyes through decades of cross-breeding who still believe their Sicilian blood rules all, and hate Portuguese-Canadians simply because...

It's laughable at times, but sad at others...

That may have been true 20 years ago, but I think most Canadians have a pretty strong sense of identity nowadays.

It ceertainly seems that way where I live anyways.

 

[Google]

We have an identity problem?! I've never seen any evidence of this? Pretty much all immigrants are Canadian first by the second generation. Sure they all keep the culture of their homeland but their just as Canadian as anyone else.

In my four years in Vancouver, there seems to be a huge identity crisis.

It's obviously difficult for a nation as big as Canada to fully integrate a sense of nationalism in the same way a smaller European country manages to do, yet it still seems strange.

Obviously, this is only my take on things, as an outsider experiencing living here, but so many people have chips on their shoulders with regards to other nationalities...when in reality, they're all born of the same country.

 

[darscot]

In my four years in Vancouver, there seems to be a huge identity crisis.

It's obviously difficult for a nation as big as Canada to fully integrate a sense of nationalism in the same way a smaller European country manages to do, yet it still seems strange.

Obviously, this is only my take on things, as an outsider experiencing living here, but so many people have chips on their shoulders with regards to other nationalities...when in reality, they're all born of the same country.

As a Vancouverite myself I find this laughable. I've been to East Indian weddings were every guy there sneaks of to catch the Canucks. There is nothing more Canadian then that. There is nothing like watching the old timers curse the Canucks in their native tongue.

 

[Azih]

Huh. You seem to have had a somewhat unique experience Google. Maybe you're looking at different things? Always good to have an outsider's perspective.

 

[Google]

There is nothing more Canadian then that.

Then obviously we've got a different stick for measuring this type of thing.

I've sat at dinner tables with high-ranking Vancouver Police Officers and witnessed the blatant racism that exists.

I've been out clubs where I've been accosted for being caucasian.

I've been on the SkyTrain with fifty year old businessmen lambast the Chinese influence on Vancouver, and blame them for everything thats wrong with the city.

 

[darscot]

Then obviously we've got a different stick for measuring this type of thing.

I've sat at dinner tables with high-ranking Vancouver Police Officers and witnessed the blatant racism that exists.

I've been out clubs where I've been accosted for being caucasian.

I've been on the SkyTrain with fifty year old businessmen lambast the Chinese influence on Vancouver, and blame them for everything thats wrong with the city.

What does any of that have to do with being Canadian? Canada is not some how exempt from assholes. Couple of pricks and we have an identity problem. Wait for 2010 then we'll see our identity. Check out a Terry Fox run, every race, colour, religion all running together as Canadians. You met a Cop that was a prick and the Country has Identity problems. You would never find a prick cop any where else. [INSERT MASSIVE ROLLS EYES]

 

[Google]

Oh, and dont get me wrong, I dont think Canadians are inherently racist or anything like that, I'm just very familiar with the bullshit English national pride, you know?

Every fucker wearing an England shirt in summer, and the whole country tuning into any type of English sporting event...

While there are huge issues with racism, it's racism with a totally different agenda it seems.

Meh, fuck...I'm more than probably taking my bloated views and applying them to something that doesnt exist.

 

[darscot]

Meh, fuck...I'm more than probably taking my bloated views and applying them to something that doesnt exist.

Agreed even you don't have a clue as to what your on about.

 

[Google]

What does any of that have to do with being Canadian? Canada is not some how exempt from assholes. Couple of pricks and we have an identity problem. Wait for 2010 then we'll see our identity. Check out a Terry Fox run, every race, colour, religion all running together as Canadians. You met a Cop that was a prick and the Country has Identity problems. You would never find a prick cop any where else. [INSERT MASSIVE ROLLS EYES]

Sit down.

Have you lived elsewhere?

Do you know what national pride is?

In my opinion, based on what I've seen living and working in this city, there are certain sub-sections of Canada's populace that seem to be struggling with their identity.

Those tiny, hand picked examples were simply that, small examples of an ever-present mentality that exists. Ignoring it, or living outside of it, doesnt mean it doesnt exist.

Watching a Hockey team dominated by players from outside of Canada, doesnt seem like a highly patriotic thing to use as an example of Canadian national identity.

Agreed even you don't have a clue as to what your on about.

Tell me you grew up on the North Shore?

 

["God's Beard!"]

there is the lingering fear of payback for America's war of independence

that's why we don't let foreigners become president. What if the King of England comes back?

 

[Google]

that's why we don't let foreigners become president. What if the King of England comes back?

'sup

 

[darscot]

Tell me you grew up on the North Shore?

Actually born in BC, spent several years growing up in Europe. A year working in Japan, traveled all over the world and this country. Spent time in Cuba and was even in Fiji during a Coup that saw the government fall. So I hate to break it to you I've pretty much seen National pride on all levels. Sorry but if I'm skeptical of your know it all attitude towards Vancouver and our National Identity after four years. Also did you just say watching hockey was not an example of Canada's National Identity. Are you fucking kidding me?

 

[cvxfreak]

Told you to leave what at the hotel?

My passport. In Japan, you'll need it everywhere as a tourist. In other countries, not the case.

 

[mollipen]

My passport. In Japan, you'll need it everywhere as a tourist. In other countries, not the case.

I can't think of any point at which I needed my passport in Japan other than (a) at the airport, or (b) when doing things like setting up my bank account, getting my temporary Japanese ID card, or things like that.

 

[cvxfreak]

I can't think of any point at which I needed my passport in Japan other than (a) at the airport, or (b) when doing things like setting up my bank account, getting my temporary Japanese ID card, or things like that.

I guess I should rephrase that to "you'll need it everywhere in order to avoid breaking the law."

Plus I was talking about tourists, not short- or long-term residents.

 

[MrHicks]

holy shit @ that "what if....happens in japan site"


you are automatically assumed guilty in court
if your married and wanna divorce its almost impossible
stories of foreign looking children having to color their hair black from schools
there are NO laws egainst race descrimination
OWNING child porn is not a crime
the police can detain you for weeks if your arrested

how can such an advanced nation by so fucking backwards or "lol wut?"on allot of these issues

 

[mollipen]

I guess I should rephrase that to "you'll need it everywhere in order to avoid breaking the law."

Plus I was talking about tourists, not short- or long-term residents.

Well, I've been there many times as a tourist, and had friends who went over their as tourists that I ran around with during my year there. Never was anybody ever asked for a passport.

I'm not arguing that it may or may not be a law in some or all of Japan, nor am I telling everybody not to carry their passport all the time if that makes them feel safer. I'm just saying that in practice, it isn't like Japan is a police state or something, where you must fear for your safety if you aren't carrying your papers. Plus, just because something is against the law doesn't mean it is something that is actually actively pushed. I've lived in places where it's against the law to jaywalk, but people weren't thrown in jail for doing so.

you are automatically assumed guilty in court
if your married and wanna divorce its almost impossible
stories of foreign looking children having to color their hair black from schools
there are NO laws egainst race descrimination
the police can detain you for weeks if your arrested

Here's the thing: if you're going to make statements like that, provide proof for them. Not saying things like that are or aren't true, it's just easy to pull crap like that out of your ass without having to do any sort of backing up of those statement, thus adding nothing to the conversation taking place here.

 

[cvxfreak]

Well, I've been there many times as a tourist, and had friends who went over their as tourists that I ran around with during my year there. Never was anybody ever asked for a passport.

I'm not arguing that it may or may not be a law in some or all of Japan, nor am I telling everybody not to carry their passport all the time if that makes them feel safer. I'm just saying that in practice, it isn't like Japan is a police state or something, where you must fear for your safety if you aren't carrying your papers. Plus, just because something is against the law doesn't mean it is something that is actually actively pushed. I've lived in places where it's against the law to jaywalk, but people weren't thrown in jail for doing so.

I'm as pragmatic as you are. I've left my passport at the hotel plenty of times. Still, the law is the law and I wouldn't exactly encourage this kind of behavior despite the chances of actually being asked for it are. I'm sure those who've been asked would have a different opinion on the matter.

 

[rotaryspirit]

Then obviously we've got a different stick for measuring this type of thing.

I've sat at dinner tables with high-ranking Vancouver Police Officers and witnessed the blatant racism that exists.

I've been out clubs where I've been accosted for being caucasian.

I've been on the SkyTrain with fifty year old businessmen lambast the Chinese influence on Vancouver, and blame them for everything thats wrong with the city.

What club was it? What night did you go on? I can't think of a club I've been to where I felt out of place, and after living there for over 7 years, I've been to more than a few. You even say "clubs" - implying that this has happened more than one time, am I correct? From your attitude on here, they probably accosted you for being an asshole.

There are definitely problems in Vancouver but it doesn't go any farther than the general racism you find in any city in any country all over the world. There are certainly a lot bigger problems to deal with in Vancouver - the constant strikes from unions, the idiotic placement of new transit lines and the public's reaction against them even though they need to be built, the increasing amount of street violence in suburban areas, etc.

I'll say this for Vancouver though.. if you have a decent job, aren't stupid about your spending, and don't mind the rain, Vancouver can be the greatest city on earth for you.

 

[Google]

From your attitude on here, they probably accosted you for being an asshole.

Yeah, I had my GAF handle fixed to my blazer...

 

[Dali]

Here's the thing: if you're going to make statements like that, provide proof for them. Not saying things like that are or aren't true, it's just easy to pull crap like that out of your ass without having to do any sort of backing up of those statement, thus adding nothing to the conversation taking place here.

-The 99% conviction rate means something is wrong with the criminal justice system. Whether or not that is a guilty until proven innocent policy is anyone's guess, but more than likely it's because of coerced confessions.
-Assisting Japan's near-flawless conviction rate is no doubt the fact that you can be detained for almost a month without indictment.
-The existence of 'no gaijin' establishments and the recent 'no Kenyans in school races' issue would lend credence to his no discrimination laws claim.

As for the rest of his claims, who knows.

 

[Azih]

the idiotic placement of new transit lines and the public's reaction against them even though they need to be built

Whoah, you guys too huh? We're such a NIMBY nation sometimes.

 

[mollipen]

As for the rest of his claims, who knows.

I'm not saying anything he said was wrong (or right), just that it's moronic to post stuff like that unless you're going to support claims like that with evidence

And stuff like... "stories of foreign looking children having to color their hair black from schools"... that's one of those ridiculous situations that I'm sure was a real story somewhere in Japan, but is in no way commonplace. And if it IS more than one or two isolated incidents, I want to see proof.

 

[rex64]

@ shidoshi:

what do you think about Debito, why he is so mad at Japan??

 

[sasimirobot]

holy shit @ that "what if....happens in japan site"


you are automatically assumed guilty in court
if your married and wanna divorce its almost impossible
stories of foreign looking children having to color their hair black from schools
there are NO laws egainst race descrimination
OWNING child porn is not a crime
the police can detain you for weeks if your arrested

how can such an advanced nation by so fucking backwards or "lol wut?"on allot of these issues

There are laws against discrimination (I think its in the Constitution)

 

[mollipen]

@ shidoshi:

what do you think about Debito, why he is so mad at Japan??

I'm conflicted when it comes to him.

Fact is, Japan is a nice country with some shitty parts to it. I mean, that's pretty much the description of every country, but that doesn't excuse Japan. My conflict about the country, and about Debito, is what place a foreigner has in telling Japan what it needs to do or not do.

America, we're a country founded by foreigners, and a country that openly asks foreigners to come here and make us a better place. That's not the country that Japan is, though, and just because we think that way of working is swell, do we have the right to ask them to run in the same way?

So, first my attitude towards him was, "why does this non-Japanese person act like a such a troublemaker in Japan? If he doesn't like so many things about the country, he should just leave." And, to be honest, part of me still feels that way. At the same time, if Japan as a country is going to allow foreigners to live in its borders in any kind of regard, then I do think they have no excuse for treating those people in some of the ways that they do. I think non-Japanese absolutely need to conform to the "Japanese way" of doing things in certain regards, but basic, everyday activities should not be made harder for those foreigners who are making an honest (and legal) attempt to live in the country.

I think Debito is a troublemaker and am not sure he's the type of person who should have the right to make some of the demands on Japan that he makes, and he seems to come from an attitude of "this is how I think Japan should work, thus Japan is wrong," which is an attitude that really rubs me the wrong way. Yet at the same time, I've also come to respect what he's doing for those people who are playing by the rules and still get screwed, and also wonder if it isn't a foreigner who is in the best position to indeed bring about the kinds of change Japan needs.

I just, again, think we need to be careful about what us outsiders demand on Japan, or any country. Basic human rights, absolutely. Basic legal rights, without doubt. But when you start to get into more cultural differences, the line isn't so clearly drawn.

 

[rykomatsu]

stories of foreign looking children having to color their hair black from schools

Not so much an issue of a school forcing them to do so. Rather, kids in general are cruel and tease/bully people who are different. Blonde headed kid going to a Japanese elementary school sticks out like a sore thumb and can potentially be a target for bullying. Similar shit happens in the US too...nothing new or surprising.

School doesn't really do anything aggressive to curtail the problem because by doing so, he/she becomes a further target of bullying...basically as someone who ratted his/her peers out.

 

[Dali]

Not so much an issue of a school forcing them to do so. Rather, kids in general are cruel and tease/bully people who are different. Blonde headed kid going to a Japanese elementary school sticks out like a sore thumb and can potentially be a target for bullying. Similar shit happens in the US too...nothing new or surprising.

School doesn't really do anything aggressive to curtail the problem because by doing so, he/she becomes a further target of bullying...basically as someone who ratted his/her peers out.

Wait, what? The U.S. isn't homogenized like Japan. Nothing similar to someone having to change some natural feature of their's to conform exists in U.S. schools... unless you're a fatty I guess. Being bullied because you are an attention whore that wears black and white clown makeup and 20 lbs of chains is not the same thing or similar to what you describe.

 

[yjs666]

On every forum, there are always Japanophiles defending the inexcusable actions of Japan in the past and present on race issues. Come on guys, just leave it JAV and forget politics okay? :lol

 

[Fatghost]

I am Canadian
I am Pakistani


The grandest thing being that both of these aren't mutually exclusive *in the slightest*. It's really quite amazing.

I have adapted to my country, and my country has adapted to immigrants. Hell I think this is the only country in the world where after a census showed where immigrants are congregating local newspaper editorials came out complaining about how *their* communities weren't getting enough immigrants and how to attract and accomodate more.

http://www.brantfordexpositor.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=970900

Sometimes I forget how damn lucky I am.

If Canada went to war with Pakistan, which side would you be on?

 

[AmMortal]

On every forum, there are always Japanophiles defending the inexcusable actions of Japan in the past and present on race issues. Come on guys, just leave it JAV and forget politics okay? :lol

Yeah, the blind defending is kinda weird but this GAF, who doesnt like Japan?lol

 

[hellclerk]

If Canada went to war with Pakistan, which side would you be on?

that's a loaded question if i ever saw one. let me get this guy off the hook.

i'm a born and naturalized citizen of the United States of America. i do not support the war in Iraq by America, while at the same time, i do not approve of the continued sectarian violence in Iraq. supporting a country in wartime is not an A or B black and white opinion, there's alot of gray area to be had. asking that question is not only pretentious, it doesn't actually mean anything either.

as to the thread, i've been following it quite a bit, and it got pretty bad in a few short pages, but i still plan on living there for at least a period of my life. i have my own personality quirks and way of doing things, and i wouldn't give them up just to homogenize into Japanese society. the idea of assimilation and the melting pot is not to become exactly as your surroundings, it's to add to them with your own culture, give it a new spice, so i would have no problems being my American self in Japan, while at the same time respecting the culture and sentimentalities of the people around me.

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

Not so much an issue of a school forcing them to do so. Rather, kids in general are cruel and tease/bully people who are different. Blonde headed kid going to a Japanese elementary school sticks out like a sore thumb and can potentially be a target for bullying. Similar shit happens in the US too...nothing new or surprising.

School doesn't really do anything aggressive to curtail the problem because by doing so, he/she becomes a further target of bullying...basically as someone who ratted his/her peers out.

Don't Japanese teens color their hair blonde?

 

[rykomatsu]

Wait, what? The U.S. isn't homogenized like Japan. Nothing similar to someone having to change some natural feature of their's to conform exists in U.S. schools... unless you're a fatty I guess. Being bullied because you are an attention whore that wears black and white clown makeup and 20 lbs of chains is not the same thing or similar to what you describe.

While I was still in elementary school (in the SF bay area at that, many decades ago), I was one of 7 or 8 asians. I was treated like crap for having black hair/slant eyes etc. 5th grade teacher (can't confirm but through the grapevine, I heard that there was a lawsuit filed against her for poor treatment of a student/students over the years...settled outside of court) went so far as to tell my parents to go bleach my hair so I would fit in better with my classmates.

So considering I went through the same thing as what was indicated, I beg to differ about the whole notion that nothing similar happens in the US.

Obviously things have changed over the years and it's become a melting pot in the bay area, I hardly doubt you can say that you can see an even gaussian distribution of every race in every part of the US.

 

[karasu]

Wait, what? The U.S. isn't homogenized like Japan. Nothing similar to someone having to change some natural feature of their's to conform exists in U.S. schools... unless you're a fatty I guess.

??? I don't think anyone HAS to do it in Japan either. If anything, it sounds similar to the way that black dudes used to rock perms because white people constantly pushed the idea that their natural "nappy" hair was unattractive. The way black women still do. But I doubt it's anywhere near as prevalent as that because no one has ever heard of anything so wonky being forced.

People shouldn't take every "weird thing about japan' in every random post as fact.

 

[numble]

While I was still in elementary school (in the SF bay area at that, many decades ago), I was one of 7 or 8 asians. I was treated like crap for having black hair/slant eyes etc. 5th grade teacher (can't confirm but through the grapevine, I heard that there was a lawsuit filed against her for poor treatment of a student/students over the years...settled outside of court) went so far as to tell my parents to go bleach my hair so I would fit in better with my classmates.

So considering I went through the same thing as what was indicated, I beg to differ about the whole notion that nothing similar happens in the US.

How many decades?

 

[Zoe]

Don't Japanese teens color their hair blonde?

Not usually until high school or so.

You can always tell when a singer finishes middle school cause they immediately start lightening their hair :lol