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Former Arkane dev: AAA studio's don't make games, they make products

cormack12

Gold Member
Secret Source: https://www.pcgamer.com/former-arka...making-a-game-anymore-youre-making-a-product/

...after the release of Prey in 2017, Raphael Colantonio packed it all in, saying he wanted to step back from the industry and "reflect on what is important" to him and his future.

"Usually I do games that are pretty confined, in an enclosed environment, where it's all about exploring a hostile environment, whether it's in Arx or Prey. Dishonored was a little bit different because it was mission to mission, but still, it was not like an open world. This time we're doing an open world thing, but the values are very similar to immersive sims the way we've always done them."

"I think a lot of people are fine with—happy, actually, maybe they feel safer—playing in games that are more channeled, that are more in a canyon, a very controlled experience, very prescribed," he said. "And then there's a cinematic that tells them a bit of story and they feel good about it, and then it keeps going and they kill a few more monsters, and then it stops again with another cinematic. I don't get that, it's not my thing.

"Our passion and our ambitions are very high, and we want to succeed and we want to make a game that people enjoy," he said. "But at the same time, we can take more risks, and we are less worried about the market than we would be if we were doing a triple-A game. Because the numbers to recoup a triple-A game, you're talking about numbers that are so high that, then you're not making a game anymore, you're making a product."

And while the urge to make games returned after some time away, a desire to go back to big-budget productions has most definitely not. "There was no way I wanted to come back to triple-A, making another thing where you focus 90 percent of your efforts on having the feet not sliding on the floor," said Colantonio. "This is not what I'm making games for."

"This is an industry, right, it's not a hobby, and as an industry it's set up in a way that you can't breathe," said Colantonio. "You can't take a rest, you have to keep going and going and going. I think in the movie industry at least, which I don't know much about, but I have this idea of the movie industry, this fantasy, where movie directors, they do a movie and then they take a break. They're like, well, I don't know what I'm going to do next, let me breathe for awhile, let me not do anything for three years. And then they have the passion, it comes back—'Oh my god, I would like to talk about this thing.' And I wish games was sort of this way. Instead they're set up like a car factory, where, you know, after Model 3 we have to start thinking about Model 4. What a way to kill creativity and the juice of a creative person."
 

TheSHEEEP

Gold Member
The amount of AAA games that are actually worth a damn is pretty small.
Most really are just products made to make money first and foremost, with a minimal amount of actually interesting gameplay but with a ton of shiny graphics because that's all that is needed to sell games.
And people gobble it up like it's freshly cut bread. One CoD after the next, one FIFA after the next, ... all the same, really.

Rare is the case of a AAA game that actually holds its own and is a unique experience.
As much as I loathe Death Stranding, I can't claim it's not unique.
Every now and again, something like Dark Souls/Witcher 2/CP2077 comes along.

Thankfully, indie gaming is stronger than it ever was, so whatever happens in the mainstream really doesn't matter too much anymore.
 
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ZehDon

Gold Member
It's the by-product of having your development house staffed by full time employees, really. Movie studios have crews on the payroll, sure, but they also use a massive number of contract labour. You sign up for the job, the job is done, and you walk away. If you're good, you'll get an invite for their next project when the time comes. Job security isn't great, but that's the nature of meritocracy. They can staff up and down accordingly. This affords them a decent amount of time off, because the costs deflate in the downtime to match it.
When James Cameron didn't make a movie for ten years after Titanic, there wasn't a fully staffed development house sitting around twiddling their thumbs for a decade, burning the same amount of cash as they did while they were in full production. So, not a fair comparison. Maybe the individual - even the head folk - need to step away from the company for a while, sure, but the company itself needs to keep working in order to stay in business and fund its employees. This is part of why crunch is fucking horrible - it's not just a month of overtime once in a project. It's a business practice. And once the crunch on Project A and done and the game is out, you're straight into working on the next game, and back into crunch mode.
 

Kanton

Member
As a (working and credited) writer/director i can say that the first 10 years after school was constant crush time with no pay and shitty part time jobs and late nights. Isnt all businesses with a narrow door like this?
 

KyoZz

Tag, you're it.
Blablabla is just all I read.

Just choose your partner carefully and it's gonna be ok. Don't sell your ass to the first who knock at your door. Some big studios have made awesome AAA games (Remedy is a good example) and they have a strong identity. I would EVEN add that having a publisher can sometime help to put limits so that the game is achievable, and not just an Arlesian. Stop whining and accepts that little and big projects involving several hundred people or not must have compromises.
 

-Arcadia-

Banned
Frankly, it's obvious from playing the games themselves.

It's becoming less and less common to really feel like something AAA is artistically inspired, taking risks, trying new things, and seeking to delight you, versus simply phoning in the least offensive, widest appeal effort possible, based on the current trends, for a product highly successful in the current quarter.

I think we're even seeing that in blockbuster movies today. The Camerons and such cited here, with full creative control, aren't so much of a thing anymore.
 
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GreyHorace

Member
NEWSFLASH: VIDEOGAMES ARE CONSUMER PRODUCTS.

You can try and dress it in whatever artistic argument you want. But at the end of the day, videogames are made to be consumed just like any other entertainment product like movies or tv shows.
 

martino

Member
NEWSFLASH: VIDEOGAMES ARE CONSUMER PRODUCTS.

You can try and dress it in whatever artistic argument you want. But at the end of the day, videogames are made to be consumed just like any other entertainment product like movies or tv shows.

it's a sad consequence of how we are organized though, not a cause
 
I mean he is right, other than capcom, cd project red and kojipro almost everything else is shit these days. Industry is filled with talentless weakminded hacks. Indies and AA is where its at.
 
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Roberts

Member
Even though I would phrase it differently, he is not entirely wrong. I happen to like a few cinematic narrative games here and then (Control and A Plague Tale were great), but often it feels like they are made by failed or wannabe filmmakers than game designers - they are more interested in stories than gameplay. Apologies to Kojima fans, but I can barely play his games, because I simply doze off when he drops another one of those 10 minute long, badly written or acted cutscenes.
 
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Clear

CliffyB's Cock Holster
The reality is that if you want the freedom to take breaks, have downtime between projects, you better have full control of your funding and expenditure.

Cos otherwise you are looking at a whole company full of salaried employees who need to keep on being paid even when no income is coming in. The bigger the project, the larger the workforce, and the more pressing the need to follow up fast or start letting people go.

Its really that simple, and there's no way around it.
 

Bodomism

Banned
Games pretend to be movies = AAA

That's why Animal Crossing is currently outselling those wannabe cinematic games in this pandemic year, everyone wanted to feel alive again by playing game and not watching game.
 
Even though I would phrase it differently, he is not entirely wrong. I happen to like a few cinematic narrative games here and then (Control and A Plague Tale were great), but often it feels like they are made by failed or wannabe filmmakers than game designers - they are more interested in stories than gameplay. Apologies to Kojima fans, but I can barely play his games, because I simply doze off when he drops another one of those 10 minute long, badly written or acted cutscenes.

Death Strandings story was fucking terrible, but the gameplay was so great that it was my goty, guy should just stick to gameplay ideas and let someone else do the story, because he is a hack in that department.
 

Cock of War

Member
200.gif


Pretentious generalizing blanket statement.
 

DunDunDunpachi

Patient MembeR
Indie still exists.

You want money for your 4k textures and your next-gen physics engine and your online netcode + worldwide infrastructure of servers?

Well, that money has to come from somewhere.

The author's description of a movie director "taking a break" exists in every other field too, including videogames. It has nothing to do with the industry and everything to do with that person's financial security and flexibility. Nothing stops you from working as a dev contractor or designer or project manager (or whatever), then taking a 3 year break to "reflect on what you want to build", and then doing exactly that, nothing except your finances.
 

DunDunDunpachi

Patient MembeR
He's absolutely right. Most gamers just want their safe formula. It's a soulless industry that rarely rewards creative risk. Gamers are the problem.
lol okay

 

Gandih42

Member
The statement is obviously a bit generalizing but I'd say it holds up in the case of most AAA productions. It doesn't necessarily strike me as a negative though, more just an acknowledgement of how things are. Massive budgets are undoubtedly a double edged sword (from the perspective of the creators), they let you create games that are impossible for most, but you have to make it fairly safe to offset the risk of massive losses. I can see how you might get tired of that, especially if you're passionate about realizing your own visions.

I suppose even the movie industry has shifted a bit in this direction, with most major movies in cinemas are massive focus tested blockbusters with a bajillion writers on them. Notable exceptions (at the top of my head) would be the likes of Tarantino, Cameron, Nolan etc., who are able to make movies according to their own vision while being highly successful.

Death Stranding strikes me as one of the few videogames lately that was able to do break the mold for a AAA game. I loved it and I hope it was successful enough to warrant more developers getting free reins on large projects, but I imagine its divisiveness more or less proved how effective the normal AAA formula is.
 

idrago01

Banned
i think he’s referring more to the EA, ubisoft, activision who just churn out sequels every year that are basically carbon copies of themselves i.e. madden, fifa, assassins creed, call of duty, battlefront etc. remember these are also the companies that tried to sell us that single player games are dead and multiplayer with microtransactions was the way of the future. all of these game very much feel more like products than games.
 

PresetError

Neophyte
Well, I can't blame him. I'd also want to take 3 years off every time I finish a stressful job and slowly let my "passion" for working return. Such a shame I need to eat and pay the bills and I'm not my own boss like Colantonio was at Arkane.
 

Ten_Fold

Member
He isn’t wrong, outside of Nintendo and I wanna say Capcom, everything AAA feels super safe nothing really interesting or risky, I know I hardly buy any of the big AAA big budget over the top movie games, feels meh.
 

kiphalfton

Member
The amount of AAA games that are actually worth a damn is pretty small.
Most really are just products made to make money first and foremost, with a minimal amount of actually interesting gameplay but with a ton of shiny graphics because that's all that is needed to sell games.
And people gobble it up like it's freshly cut bread. One CoD after the next, one FIFA after the next, ... all the same, really.

Rare is the case of a AAA game that actually holds its own and is a unique experience.
As much as I loathe Death Stranding, I can't claim it's not unique.
Every now and again, something like Dark Souls/Witcher 2/CP2077 comes along.

Thankfully, indie gaming is stronger than it ever was, so whatever happens in the mainstream really doesn't matter too much anymore.

Rare doesn't release AAA games though...
 
Games pretend to be movies = AAA

That's why Animal Crossing is currently outselling those wannabe cinematic games in this pandemic year, everyone wanted to feel alive again by playing game and not watching game.

oh yeah. Animal Crossing, the pinnacle of gaming. kids are bored locked away at home and they hang out with friends in this furry Roblox, that's all there is to it.

but tbh, I'm not paying attention to big AAA anymore either - they've turned into political agendas with some repetitive gameplay as filler... since Adventure and Zork it's been clear that the best narrative in games is that in which you discover things on your own at your own pace, not linear narratives with tons of scripted scenes and dialogues...

indies, VR and, yes, games heavy in user creation like The Sims, Minecraft, Rec Room, Roblox, Animal Crossing and Dreams are paving the future of games...
 

Roberts

Member
Death Stranding strikes me as one of the few videogames lately that was able to do break the mold for a AAA game. I loved it and I hope it was successful enough to warrant more developers getting free reins on large projects, but I imagine its divisiveness more or less proved how effective the normal AAA formula is.

Even though Kojima's quirks got in the way of me enjoying the game, I agree. Say what you want about him as a game designer or storyteller, he is basically one of the very few auteurs of AAA game-making. Somehow too weird and idiosyncratic for mainstream and yet successful enough to warrant big project after a project. Kind of like George Miller of games (and nowhere near as good, bah)
 
Yep, if you are one of these Xbox warriors out there who will have a stroke if one of these come to their system
I don't own an Xbox, and I don't plan on ever buying one. I do, however, own a PS4, and might end up buying a PS5 at some point. I know this might come as a shock to some people on this board, but owning a Playstation console does not magically cause you to be interested in every single exclusive Sony has shat out over the past 7 years. I bought and loved Bloodborne, but that's it. I don't care about any of their other games, and I wish they'd move out of their comfort zone a little more next gen.
 

kruis

Exposing the sinister cartel of retailers who allow companies to pay for advertising space.
Frankly, it's obvious from playing the games themselves.

It's becoming less and less common to really feel like something AAA is artistically inspired, taking risks, trying new things, and seeking to delight you, versus simply phoning in the least offensive, widest appeal effort possible, based on the current trends, for a product highly successful in the current quarter.

I think we're even seeing that in blockbuster movies today. The Camerons and such cited here, with full creative control, aren't so much of a thing anymore.

The financial stakes are too high to take risks. Only top directors (Cameron, Kojima) get a blank check to do whatever they want.
 
My favourite part of AAA is the DLC.

DLC proves the industry is driven by love over profit, because why else would they go through the hardship of developing it before the game is released and then cutting it out, only to sell it at 50% the price of the game later? Love of gaming is why.
 

Men_in_Boxes

Snake Oil Salesman
Kill 50 AI - Trigger cutscene - Kill 50 more AI - Rinse and repeat, is hackey game design at this point. We need to move past it.
 

junguler

Banned
it doesn't matter what it's called or how it's made, what matters is that it gets played by many people around the world and brings joy to their heart. i'm not talking about insane working hours or under-payed talents tho, those kind of problems need to be fixed asap.
 

StormCell

Member
Wow, I can comprehend where this guy is coming from. I have seen it a few times where as devs we are hit with the most mundane of bugs that the business fully backs as our top priority to correct but in the grand scheme is completely meaningless provided you have a way to work with or around the issue. Something like feet sliding on the surfaces might as well be like "icon remains highlighted for 2 seconds after my mouse leaves it -- Ui not snappy enough" FFS, we have better features to focus on building... and depending on the ui library of choice, the fix can be very simple or too involved or even requiring removal of the library for that case. Who knows.

What this guy maybe doesn't relate is that as devs we are neither the directors or the actors but the dudes sitting in offices off set adding and editing all the special effects into the scenes. We are gonna bounce from project to the next, immediately, because we pretty much live pay check to pay check. Sure, you can have a year off, but it's your savings and/or investments absorbing the hit.
 

Dane

Member
I get his point, it's that the AAA product overshadows any other new IP that the studio could have in favor of sequels and spin offs and effectively making into a one-two IP studio, even sequels for old IPs are scrapped.

Rockstar for example, made lots of games back in the 128 bit and last generation, but we only got a remaster and Red Dead Redemption 2 in this generation, it even sounds like that they scrapped anything that wasn't +95 metascore (which only GTA and RDR meets).
 
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StormCell

Member
Just know that what this guy is basically saying is that AAA publishers are so in tune with our lust for bleeding-edge visuals that they would have this guy dedicate 90% of his time and talents to feet not sliding on the ground. They're more worried about this little thing than they are about the overall content of the game because visuals sell.
 

Reindeer

Member
He's right, a game like TLOU2 is a perfect example why you shouldn't try to turn very game into a franchise. There are obviously many other examples, like the Assassin's Creed and Far Cry franchises. At least take a break for a while like the guy says and maybe you can come back and make a worthy sequel that is fresh, but AAA industry are blood sucking vampires that just won't stop.
 
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Fbh

Member
I mean sure, but it's not like this is exclusive to games.
Entertainment companies will usually only spend big money on products they think are safe and bankable.

You also won't see movie studios throwing Marvel budgets at arthouse passion projects.
 
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