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Foxconn using forced student labor to build Sony's PS4?

M

miDnIghtEr20C

Banned
Ninja Scooter said:
Societies (including America) have always been built on slave labor. It's no surprise that once America started getting more strict labor laws we also stopped making shit. Makes you wonder if we can really function as a civilization without it.
Click to expand...

Off topic.. A Nick Van Exel avatar!??!!? Holy shit! I patent my tear drop drive to the basket after his. Good stuff man!
 
Z

zoozilla

Member
ProfessorMoran said:
If they're not making consoles or iphones, they would probably be fucking toiling fields or working in coal mines making next to nothing.
Click to expand...

Mr. X said:
Would you rather they be jobless?
Click to expand...

What?

I don't get why my post means that I wish those workers to be even worse off. Of course things could be worse for them - I just wished they were better.

The point is, everyone can recognize that something is wrong with the current situation, but there's no real effort put into making big changes. And that's a shame.
 
Y

Yagharek

Member
There really should be some standard for hardware manufacturers, be it Apple, Samsung, Sony, Microsoft or Nintendo etc to make it known in what conditions their labour and materials are sourced.

Sort of like the way eggs are labelled as being caged, free range or intensively farmed chickens.

Of course that assumes that customers will make the ethical choice.

At the other end we need to see a crackdown on this unpaid slave labour.
 
N

Netherscourge

Banned
MAJOR Companies that Foxconn has been contracted to make electronics for:

Acer Inc. (Taiwan)
Amazon.com (United States)
Apple Inc. (United States)
Cisco (United States)
Dell (United States)
Gateway (United States)
Hewlett-Packard (United States)
Intel (United States)
Microsoft (United States)
Motorola (United States)
Nintendo (Japan)
Nokia (Finland)
Samsung (South Korea)
Sony (Japan)
Sony Ericsson (Japan/Sweden)
Toshiba (Japan)
Vizio (United States)

"Let he who is without sin...."
 
W

Warm Machine

Member
If they cut the 12 hour shifts down to 8 hours they would need 1/3rd more workers. This is where big numbers come into play. So they would need another 125k employees to cover the time loss. I think that would be great and the price would not reay change but those people have to live somewhere.

125k is about twice the size of the entire small city I went to high school in.
 
N

Night Angel

Member
Yagharek said:
There really should be some standard for hardware manufacturers, be it Apple, Samsung, Sony, Microsoft or Nintendo etc to make it known in what conditions their labour and materials are sourced.

Sort of like the way eggs are labelled as being caged, free range or intensively farmed chickens.

Of course that assumes that customers will make the ethical choice.

At the other end we need to see a crackdown on this unpaid slave labour.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately, it won't do much because (almost) EVERY product (from well known brands, anyway) use the same manufacturers. If everything has the same label, it won't make a difference.

I wouldn't mind paying a bit more, but because that isn't an option, I'm not gonna stop using their products.
 
P

ProfessorMoran

Member
zoozilla said:
What?

I don't get why my post means that I wish those workers to be even worse off. Of course things could be worse for them - I just wished they were better.

The point is, everyone can recognize that something is wrong with the current situation, but there's no real effort put into making big changes. And that's a shame.
Click to expand...

They're not going to be better because they live in a shitty country and you have no real influence on the politics or their morality (or lack thereof).
 
M

Mulgrok

Member
China is going through its Industrial Revolution. This kind of shit was common in the US during our Industrial Revolution.

Until the general population rises up in protest nothing will change there.
 
J

jony_m

Member
Can't seem to be able to get outraged about this, being a Mac/iPhone owner I've heard the stories...

While there is certainly great responsibility on Apple, Sony, MS... the fault lies on Foxconn and the corrupt Chinese govt that allows this to happen.

I assume Apple pays $x per iPhone in assembling costs, and Foxconn tries to maximize their profits by using questionable practices.

Edit: Another case:

Chinese Foxconn Workers Threaten Mass Suicide Over Xbox Pay Dispute
 
D

dreamcastmaster

Banned
Warm Machine said:
If they cut the 12 hour shifts down to 8 hours they would need 1/3rd more workers. This is where big numbers come into play. So they would need another 125k employees to cover the time loss. I think that would be great and the price would not really change but those people have to live somewhere.

125k is about twice the size of the entire small city I went to high school in.
Click to expand...

Another issue is that in recent years wages for Labor in China have risen. Not only that but labor is getting harder to source as a lot of younger people are getting better education and are aspiring to be more than just a factory worker and with the growth of China the opportunities are out there for them to do that.

Paying them more or cutting hours won't solve those issues.
 
W

What The Forest Taught Me

Member
nai said:
I wouldn't mind paying extra if it meant improved working conditions for these workers.
Click to expand...

Neither would I. I'd pay more in a heartbeat if it meant that, and I know many others would as well.

I've worked in China before, as well as in Bahrain, Qatar, and Kyrgyzstan, among other countries. Seeing the labor conditions for certain segments of the workforce in those places will make one reconsider the way they think about everything. Some on this forum may not know where Kyrgyzstan is, and may never have even heard of it. I would encourage those for whom this is the case to do some reading on it.
 
Y

Yagharek

Member
Night Angel said:
Unfortunately, it won't do much because (almost) EVERY product (from well known brands, anyway) use the same manufacturers. If everything has the same label, it won't make a difference.

I wouldn't mind paying a bit more, but because that isn't an option, I'm not gonna stop using their products.
Click to expand...

Perhaps it might make it economical to open new, ethical if more expensive manufacturers.
 
kutthoat5150

kutthoat5150

Member
another story about how America sells products made using cheap labor from other countries, what else is new. Apple, Samsung, Sony, Wal-Mart and so many other companies are guilty of it but somehow it only becomes an issue when we read about it yet it goes on all the time
 
Laughing Banana

Laughing Banana

Weeping Pickle
Just be honest, do any of you actually care about this in the end? Or put it this way, if given the choice to pick, would you actually pick not to play PS4/Xboxone/gaming system if doing so can improve the working conditions of the people there?

Yeah right.
 
J

jaypah

Member
Laughing Banana said:
Just be honest, do any of you actually care about this in the end? Or put it this way, if given the choice to pick, would you actually pick not to play PS4/Xboxone/gaming system if doing so can improve the working conditions of the people there?

Yeah right.
Click to expand...

Oh, I'm going to have my PS4 and my Xbox and my WiiU and my phone and my PC etc. I can't quit electronics. But I would pay more for them if they were produced in a better environment.
 
W

Warm Machine

Member
I don't know anything about cost of living in China but it does look like the area of China Foxconn is in has some of the highest average salaries in the country. I don't know if they pay for the room and board for the employees as well seeing as though they have dorms.

It also seems as though people actively want to work at the factories but the high pressure and long hours are the thing driving people crazy. I was just reading that the base work week in China is supposed to be 40 hours a week and overtime is required for anything above that.

Grimly, in Canada the suicide rate for every 100,000 people per year is around 24. Foxconn would need a yearly death toll of around 80 to match Canada statistically.

I find Foxconn fascinating only because the idea of a massive factory city is something out of an sci if anime and it actually exists.
 
B

BRocknRolla

Member
This sort of stuff... I have a hard time with it.

I try to live by a basic moral code which is to say, "Don't be shitty, and don't make the world a worse place," but where that responsibility begins and ends... I just don't know.

I'm big on environmental issues. To consider the amount of energy expended on electronics including production, transport, and use. To think of the mass of e-waste shipped to China and India every year that just sits and pollutes the water. To think of all the factories spewing noxious fumes into the air...

Human rights issues definitely get me. How many people were paid below a decent wage to make my phone, my TV, and my computer? How many people worked long hours in sub-par conditions to make sure I could get my hands on the latest gadget. How many piece of rare-earth metals from conflict zones can be found in next gen consoles?

I wish places like Foxconn didn't do shady things within the bounds of China's laissez faire legal system, because short of no longer buying electronics, hell, a lot more products than that, I don't know what I can do, or what I should do. The right thing in these situations... It escapes me. I love new technology. Maybe ignoring China's habitually bad worker's rights records makes me a bad person. I just can't carry it all in my head.
 
G

GalacticaN7

Banned
Not saying any of us should condone the labor practices over in China, but chances are Sony has no part in how Foxconn hires/manages their workforce. Sony enters into deal with manufacturer with benchmarks they need to hit, and Foxconn handles how they hit those benchmarks on their end. Obviously the deal would be far more in depth, but that would be the gist.

Also, I haven't read through the many pages completely, so I may just be regurgitating something that has been mentioned over and over.:)
 
U

USC-fan

Banned
GalacticaN7 said:
Not saying any of us should condone the labor practices over in China, but chances are Sony has no part in how Foxconn hires/manages their workforce. Sony enters into deal with manufacturer with benchmarks they need to hit, and Foxconn handles how they hit those benchmarks on their end. Obviously the deal would be far more in depth, but that would be the gist.

Also, I haven't read through the many pages completely, so I may just be regurgitating something that has been mentioned over and over.:)
Click to expand...

To be fair foxconn may be doing nothing wrong. It seems the school is forcing the kids to do the work or they cant get credit.

I think this is a the standard practice at this school but at foxconn is rush mode to get ps4 out so every free hand is helping in the lines. Maybe in the past student got to do better jobs or something that relates to their major.
 
D

dreamcastmaster

Banned
Warm Machine said:
I don't know anything about cost of living in China but it does look like the area of China Foxconn is in has some of the highest average salaries in the country. I don't know if they pay for the room and board for the employees as well seeing as though they have dorms.
Click to expand...

Typically dormitories are free, but there may be charges for water and electricity. The worker will also be given free meals.

Warm Machine said:
It also seems as though people actively want to work at the factories but the high pressure and long hours are the thing driving people crazy. I was just reading that the base work week in China is supposed to be 40 hours a week and overtime is required for anything above that.
Click to expand...

A lot of the work is just seasonal so many workers are only working for a few months a year before going back to their hometowns with as much money as they can make to support their families. It's unskilled work with steady pay and if there's overtime they'll take it. Choice of earn money or sit in the dormitory with nothing better to do, not earning.

.

Warm Machine said:
I find Foxconn fascinating only because the idea of a massive factory city is something out of an sci if anime and it actually exists.
Click to expand...

It's not only Foxconn but many large manufacturers, I would not say factory city a more fair description is factory town. Nothing like sci fi, just a lot of plain square grey buildings all owned by the same company with a not of smaller independent businesses that have grown up around them to support the workers.
 
G

GalacticaN7

Banned
USC-fan said:
To be fair foxconn may be doing nothing wrong. It seems the school is forcing the kids to do the work or they cant get credit.

I think this is a the standard practice at this school but at foxconn is rush mode to get ps4 out so every free hand is helping in the lines. Maybe in the past student got to do better jobs or something that relates to their major.
Click to expand...

Absolutely agree. A lot of variables not covered in that article.
 
N

nomis

Member
xxracerxx said:
And $500 from the same plant is better?
Click to expand...

You misread my use of the term "399" to mean that $499 for an Xbox is better? Lol no. I was attempting to encapsulate our obsession with highly advanced NEW TECHNOLOGY SHIT being at an awesome pricepoint. Hence $399 since everyone was so "impressed" with that slide on Sony's presentation at E3.

The mindset of not wanting to disappoint their loyalists on price, to "win E3", to "win the gen", that ensured Sony would subcontract to someone like Foxconn, Foxconn having absolutely no morals whatsoever.

Mad-lib Sony for Microsoft if you wish and the message is the same.
 
K

Kwixotik

Member
When will people realize that nearly all of our electronics are made by what is essentially slave labor at plants like Foxconn's?
 
G

Guerilla

Member
Guys, noone is attacking Sony in here don't get defensive, the real problem is of course Foxconn. Having said that Sony is part of the problem just like all electronics manufacturers.
 
N

nomis

Member
Guerilla said:
Guys, noone is attacking Sony in here don't get defensive, the real problem is of course Foxconn. Having said that Sony is part of the problem just like all electronics manufacturers.
Click to expand...

STOP making this about real life and not the console war, you heathen.
 
K

KimonoNoNo

Member
BRocknRolla said:
This sort of stuff... I have a hard time with it.

I try to live by a basic moral code which is to say, "Don't be shitty, and don't make the world a worse place," but where that responsibility begins and ends... I just don't know.

I'm big on environmental issues. To consider the amount of energy expended on electronics including production, transport, and use. To think of the mass of e-waste shipped to China and India every year that just sits and pollutes the water. To think of all the factories spewing noxious fumes into the air...

Human rights issues definitely get me. How many people were paid below a decent wage to make my phone, my TV, and my computer? How many people worked long hours in sub-par conditions to make sure I could get my hands on the latest gadget. How many piece of rare-earth metals from conflict zones can be found in next gen consoles?

I wish places like Foxconn didn't do shady things within the bounds of China's laissez faire legal system, because short of no longer buying electronics, hell, a lot more products than that, I don't know what I can do, or what I should do. The right thing in these situations... It escapes me. I love new technology. Maybe ignoring China's habitually bad worker's rights records makes me a bad person. I just can't carry it all in my head.
Click to expand...
I hear you. I once turned vegetarian for about 6 months over animal welfare issues.

Semi OT - At least not everything is made in China. This week the 1 millionth Raspberry Pi rolled off the production line at a Sony plant just up the road from me.
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/raspberry-pi-mini-computer-reaches-one-6157011
 
D

Dodecagon

works for a research lab making 6 figures
Foxconn is a comparatively nice factory to work for in china, not that I condone the practices.
 
N

nomis

Member
dreamcastmaster said:
I do. #dealingwithit
Click to expand...

sSLayZe.jpg
 
Trogdor1123

Trogdor1123

Member
Pretty awful stuff if true. I wouldnt boycot the PS4 for it but I will message Sony that they should step in and ensure that something is done about it.
 
MidgarBlowedUp

MidgarBlowedUp

Member
I was just reading that the average Foxconn worker makes around $400 per month by working 6 days per week, which is pretty good pay in China if I am to believe our news outlets. The big issue isn't the pay so much as the shit work conditions, since you had people at Foxconn committing suicide by jumping off buildings there. It's all terrible, but it seems like it is slowly getting better.. i guess?
 
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