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Friend believes Interstellar has a better soundtrack than Empire Strikes Back, help.

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RustyNails said:
if not THE best OST in recent memory. Friendo is correct
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Careful now. There are a lot of contenders to go around, and there is a sizable difference between a "one of the best" claim and a "the best" statement. You should respect the weight of the claim you're making and hopefully you'd be willing to back that up, especially against works like Battle of the Five Armies and Powell's work on the How to Train Yiur Dragon series.
 
Your friend is correct. It is very obvious that the Interstellar soundtrack was inspired by musical minimalism and I'm a fan of that kind of music. Also, I think it works wonderfully to illustrate the incomprehensible vastness of space, so it was a perfect fit for the movie.
 
Dave Inc. said:
Empire's score is much more traditional, and while you remember the songs pretty well there's nothing special about their quality and they stand alongside the film, not in it. Interstellar's soundtrack, while not having anything you can hum along with, is an integral part of the film and magnifies its quality.
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Are you saying you don't think John Williams' score for Empire isn't integral to the film and doesn't magnify it's quality?
 
Arc said:
GAF really loves Interstellar for some reason, besides the docking scene I think the whole film is trash which really makes it hard for me to enjoy the score.
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Really? It was received ok, but I wouldn't say that GAF loves it. Everytime a thread pops up about Interstellar there are lots of people saying they didn't like it.

This seems to become a Zimmer vs Williams thing. Williams music you can hum, less so with Zimmers work but that doesn't matter really. Rather listen to Zimmers music while driving, working out etc for that matter. Zimmer (for me) elevates and knows exactly what the movie/scenes need. And I just like his scores. MoS, TDK, Inception,Interstellar, BHD. Pretty much everything except TASM.
 
Dave Inc. said:
Empire's score is much more traditional, and while you remember the songs pretty well there's nothing special about their quality and they stand alongside the film, not in it. Interstellar's soundtrack, while not having anything you can hum along with, is an integral part of the film and magnifies its quality.
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Really? Is it even possible to think of, say, the Empire without also thinking of the Imperial Theme? The score is absolutely integral to its character as this oppressive, imposing martial force. And that's just one example.

Try watching ESB with no music or some other music and see how effective it is. It's barely an exaggeration to say the music makes the film.

"Nothing special"? I can't believe what I'm reading.
 
Interstellar or ESB? Oof, that's a tough one. I would honestly have to say Interstellar had the better soundtrack while ESB had the more memorable one. It's like comparing Macklemore and Kendrick Lamar last year at the Grammys. Kendrick had by far the better album overall, but Macklemore had the more "memorable" album since everyone and their mother heard "Thrift Shop". I will say the leifmotif was more pronounced in Interstellar's soundtrack and help emphasize the vastness and loneliness of space. To me, the soundtrack help make the movie connect with me on a more personal level. ESB's soundtrack is fantastic as it is bombastic, loud, and does everything to show you, "Hey, this is the Empire and they are striking back and they aren't playing around." More memorable songs, less coherence when compared to Interstellar.
 
Mengy said:
I think a lot of people just aren't fans of classical style music, and they would probably pick Zimmer over Williams. I don't think Interstellar is Zimmer's best work however, I prefer his music from Inception to Interstellar. Time from Inception is better than anything he did for Interstellar, even better than No Time for Caution IMHO (I say that even though I love Interstellar's OST).
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Me too, I prefer inceptions soundtrack, it's so powerful. I felt the more emotional tracks are better too.
 
Wynnebeck said:
Interstellar or ESB? Oof, that's a tough one. I would honestly have to say Interstellar had the better soundtrack while ESB had the more memorable one. It's like comparing Macklemore and Kendrick Lamar last year at the Grammys. Kendrick had by far the better album overall, but Macklemore had the more "memorable" album since everyone and their mother heard "Thrift Shop". I will say the leifmotif was more pronounced in Interstellar's soundtrack and help emphasize the vastness and loneliness of space. To me, the soundtrack help make the movie connect with me on a more personal level. ESB's soundtrack is fantastic as it is bombastic, loud, and does everything to show you, "Hey, this is the Empire and they are striking back and they aren't playing around." More memorable songs, less coherence when compared to Interstellar.
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I have to disagree on the leitmotif, not that I would really use it intensely to compare the relative value of these tracks. Williams pretty much pioneered the use of cohesive leitmotif (in film) in his Star Wars scores, and not only is his score's leitmotif more pronounced, it's much more on-the nose. You can hum the corresponding tune for every emotional theme, character and entity in that movie. I wouldn't say Interstellar's is more pronounced. Perhaps it is a bit more emotionally nuanced and blended into the action? But definitely not more pronounced.
 
jb1234 said:
On a technical level, ESB is the superior score. It's better written (in terms of thematic material, counterpoint and so on) and orchestrated by a musician who was trained how to do so. Subjectively, that's a different story. People connect to what they connect to.
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Very true. ESB is a fantastic score that stands on it's own. Williams truly understands the orchestra.

Some of you may enjoy the Interstellar score more, which is fine, but when asking which one is better, ESB has to take the cake.
 
hydrophilic attack said:
Your friend is correct. It is very obvious that the Interstellar soundtrack was inspired by musical minimalism and I'm a fan of that kind of music. Also, I think it works wonderfully to illustrate the incomprehensible vastness of space, so it was a perfect fit for the movie.
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I don't get that sense at all. All I felt was that Zimmer turned up the volume slider and added bass at climactic moments. Those parts worked well in the context of the film, largely because of the fantastic visual effects and sense of scale, but as a piece of standalone music, Interstellar's soundtrack is really quite a drudge to listen to. The themes are simplistic and forgettable, and it sticks to pretty much just one tempo throughout the entire film, getting louder instead of faster and more exciting.
 
Williams produces watered down classical music. Arguing for complexity in film scores is pointless as that is not the purpose of film scores to begin with.
 
RustyNails said:
Interstellar OST is one of the best, if not THE best OST in recent memory. Friendo is correct
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You say that with a Mad Max avatar? For shame. Fury Road's soundtrack blows Zimmer's most recent output out of the water.

Game4life said:
Williams produces watered down classical music. Arguing for complexity in film scores is pointless as that is not the purpose of film scores to begin with.
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I disagree. The best film scores are able to bring complexity of well written music and apply it to the film music bone structure.

John Williams definitely sides more with the former, but there are those out there that are a master of both (John Powell, Johann Johannsen, Alexandre Deslpat, etc)
 
Monocle said:
Really? Is it even possible to think of, say, the Empire without also thinking of the Imperial Theme? The score is absolutely integral to its character as this oppressive, imposing martial force. And that's just one example.

Try watching ESB with no music or some other music and see how effective it is. It's barely an exaggeration to say the music makes the film.

"Nothing special"? I can't believe what I'm reading.
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Yeah, Dave's claim is ridiculous. I think a lot of what's happening here is that some people are so used to Star Wars music, and it's been around for so long, that a lot of people are simply praising the new stuff while undervaluing the "familiar" music. Many of the comments about how Empire's OST is generic or subpar ring of listeners who really aren't appreciating just how complex, intricate, and skillful William's score truly is. It feels easy and non-distracting while watching Empire so they feel it must be simple and nothing special, while in reality that's a mark of just how great and tailored the soundtrack actually is.

By contrast, Zimmers score for Interstellar often overpowered the movie and especially the dialogue, he has a habit of doing this (Nolan's Batman trilogy, Inception, and Man of Steel had this same problem too). While he can make great music he does not show the skill nor dynamism that Williams displays in integrating and composing music to fit the movie seamlessly and emotionally. This is one of the largest reasons why Zimmer's music, while great, is not as fantastic compared to William's.
 
Sorry I have to share this cause my friend just came at me with "I think interstellar is a more important movie than Star Wars"

I don't even.
 
watershed said:
Are you saying you don't think John Williams' score for Empire isn't integral to the film and doesn't magnify it's quality?
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Monocle said:
Really? Is it even possible to think of, say, the Empire without also thinking of the Imperial Theme? The score is absolutely integral to its character as this oppressive, imposing martial force. And that's just one example.

Try watching ESB with no music or some other music and see how effective it is. It's barely an exaggeration to say the music makes the film.

"Nothing special"? I can't believe what I'm reading.
Click to expand...

I'm trying to make the distinction between songs that go along with a movie and songs that are a part of the movie; the traditional vs. the modern.

I remember the songs from Empire, but not a single scene they're tied to, or how they played with it. I remember the songs from Interstellar as parts of the scenes they were in.
 
"Complexity" is far from pointless. There is a wealth of harmonic possibilities in the world of music to evoke different themes and emotions. Today's Zimmer-derived soundtracks ordered by the play-it-safe studios have largely regressed from this, focusing more on production and sound design while sticking to the same old chord progressions and stacatto rhythms. It's basically EDM without the dance part.
 
Symphonic said:
You say that with a Mad Max avatar? For shame. Fury Road's soundtrack blows Zimmer's most recent output out of the water.



I disagree. The best film scores are able to bring complexity of well written music and apply it to the film music bone structure.

John Williams definitely sides more with the former, but there are those out there that are a master of both (John Powell, Johann Johannsen, Alexandre Deslpat, etc)
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None of their music is complex. Listening to Bach, Beethoven, Mozart, Chopin ,Liszt etc..and then listening to John Williams makes it extremely clear. Good Classical music tends to offer considerable depth and complexity that is not easily noticeable until you hear it multiple times and slowly start uncovering the various layers. Film music should ideally focus on capturing the viewer's attention immediately and try to enhance the visual aspects of the film and communicate story, mood setup, feelings etc through simplicity. As a viewer I would not want to watch a scene multiple times and listen to the background music hunderd's of times to make sense of the music. The format does not allow for complex classical pieces bgm's most of the time. The score can be simple and still communicate everything about the scene. You said you liked Fury Road. Fury Road's music is as simplistic as they come, yet 'Many Mothers' and 'Brothers in Arms' works to improve the film.

lazygecko said:
"Complexity" is far from pointless. There is a wealth of harmonic possibilities in the world of music to evoke different themes and emotions. Today's Zimmer-derived soundtracks ordered by the play-it-safe studios have largely regressed from this, focusing more on production and sound design while sticking to the same old chord progressions and stacatto rhythms. It's basically EDM without the dance part.
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This is not Zimmer's fault though. That is his style. Other composers are still free to experiment with whatever style they choose. I mean they can look at this if they refuse to look outside Zimmer for inspiration
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_U4in8WeS0
 
MiamiWesker said:
Sorry I have to share this cause my friend just came at me with "I think interstellar is a more important movie than Star Wars"

I don't even.
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Oh boy. I'm sorry that's gotta be frustrating. I don't know if there is any set of systems that attempt to quantity importance that would be willing to even make such an assertion without allowing enough time to observe the ripples of the movie.
 
Game4life said:
None of their music is complex. Listening to Bach, Beethoven, Mozart, Chopin ,Liszt etc..and then listening to John Williams makes it extremely clear. Good Classical music tends to offer considerable depth and complexity that is not easily noticeable until you hear it multiple times and slowly start uncovering the various layers. Film music should ideally focus on capturing the viewer's attention immediately and try to enhance the visual aspects of the film and communicate story, mood setup, feelings etc through simplicity. As a viewer I would not want to watch a scene multiple times and listen to the background music hunderd's of times to make sense of the music. The format does not allow for complex classical pieces bgm's most of the time. The score can be simple and still communicate everything about the scene. You said you liked Fury Road. Fury Road's music is as simplistic as they come, yet 'Many Mothers' and 'Brothers in Arms' works to improve the film.
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I don't see why any good composer who wants to go above and beyond couldn't package in complex musical subtext beneath its overt musical cues.
 
Dave Inc. said:
I remember the songs from Empire, but not a single scene they're tied to, or how they played with it. I remember the songs from Interstellar as parts of the scenes they were in.
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Just curious, quick question: how long ago was it since you last saw both movies? Empire and Interstellar? And how many times for each film?
 
zeshakag said:
I don't see why any good composer who wants to go above and beyond couldn't package in complex musical subtext beneath its overt musical cues.
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Maybe they can. I am yet to see it work in a film structure. Even films that employ actual western classical music tend to play it safe and borrow the simpler melodies and not give way to include the slightly more nuanced and complex portions of the music. You will frequently see Beethoven's second movement opening for Symphony 7 inserted everywhere but never other portions of other movements that are not as easily understandable or easy to grasp but significantly more enjoyable on repeat hearing. I am sure certain films do but I would reckon they are rare.
 
Dave Inc. said:
I've seen Interstellar twice, pretty recently. I'll admit I haven't seen Empire in a while but I've seen it many times.
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May I suggest you watch Empire again but while paying close attention to the musical cues and pieces with regard to the script and action scenes. It's a masterful soundtrack and far more impressive skillwise than Zimmer's (admittedly great) Interstellar OST.
 
Game4life said:
Maybe they can. I am yet to see it work in a film structure. Even films that employ actual western classical music tend to play it safe and borrow the simpler melodies and not give way to include the slightly more nuanced and complex portions of the music. You will frequently see Beethoven's second movement opening for Symphony 7 inserted everywhere but never other portions of other movements that are not as easily understandable or easy to grasp but significantly more enjoyable on repeat hearing. I am sure certain films do but I would reckon they are rare.
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A song can have simple melodies and still be complex. Perhaps our definitions differ with regards to complex music. Maurice Ravel's Bolero is a fairly simple, straightforward and memorable tune that has a lot to uncover just by paying attention to its structuring, repetition, key change, and velocity. On the flip-side, a bombastic modern-age film-composer like John Powell uses complex orchestration to convey straightforward ideas at the surface layer without utilizing any deeper theory.
 
zeshakag said:
A song can have simple melodies and still be complex. Perhaps our definitions differ with regards to complex music. Maurice Ravel's Bolero is a fairly simple, straightforward and memorable tune that has a lot to uncover just by paying attention to its structuring, repetition, key change, and velocity. On the flip-side, a bombastic modern-age film-composer like John Powell uses complex orchestration to convey straightforward ideas at the surface layer without utilizing any deeper theory.
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Having melodies is just one aspect of classical music though. When I say complexity and depth with not obviously recognizable melodies that take multiple listening sessions to appreciate I think of stuff like this - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9BQ1ylApto. Mazeppa is one of my all time favorite etude's. This is more complex piece than anything John Williams has ever written.

Now composers are veering towards this on piano - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FySi6xXkNqo

Now while I love Mazeppa I would think introducing the entire piece on film would be disastrous as the viewer would have to listen to the piece separately or view the accompanying scene multiple times to really appreciate the genius of the piece. Most films do not have such leeway which is why I argued against significant complexity in film music. Film music does not have to be complex to be good or do justice to the movie. The music of Fury Road and Interstellar work magnificently not because they are complex but because they work well in tandem with the images on screen. Same is the case with Jurassic Park or Indiana Jones. None of their music is inherently complex.
 
MiamiWesker said:
Sorry I have to share this cause my friend just came at me with "I think interstellar is a more important movie than Star Wars"

I don't even.
Click to expand...

brandonh83 said:
It just went from subjectivity to factually incorrect.
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It depends on how you define "important", and in what ways. In terms of the scifi genre, Star Wars was more revolutionary an important at the time. Interstellar isn't as revolutionary to it's time as Star Wars was to its time, IMO. So in terms of filmmaking, Star Wars has had a lot more influence and impact since it was released, so in those terms, it is more important as well.

In terms of depictions of science in scifi, Interstellar is more important, given that it takes great pains to portray its science accurately, both in concept and in visuals. It has the best visual depictions of black holes yet, and the development of the movie has produced the publishing of two scientific articles regarding black holes and computer graphics. Even the fiction part of its science fiction is at least theoretically plausible.

It's really a matter of interpretation for this one too. "Important in what way"? "Important to whom"?
 
zeshakag said:
I have to disagree on the leitmotif, not that I would really use it intensely to compare the relative value of these tracks. Williams pretty much pioneered the use of cohesive leitmotif (in film) in his Star Wars scores, and not only is his score's leitmotif more pronounced, it's much more on-the nose. You can hum the corresponding tune for every emotional theme, character and entity in that movie. I wouldn't say Interstellar's is more pronounced. Perhaps it is a bit more emotionally nuanced and blended into the action? But definitely not more pronounced.
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That's where I would have to disagree. Zimmer's score becomes almost organic in its use and tonality throughout the movie that rarely deviates. It's the masterful blending of the music with the scenes that elevate the movie above what could have been just a decent movie into an amazing one. However, like I said before, with the Stars Wars soundtrack being so ingrained in pop culture now, if you were to ask 10 people to hum a tune from Star Wars, I can guarantee you 10 out of 10 times they will either hum the main score or Imperial March. The SW soundtrack while entertaining and serving of its purpose from scene to scene, fail to evoke any type of natural response outside of action oriented stimuli while Interstellar's soundtrack further enhances the emptiness of space as well as the internal human struggle of McConaughey, Hathaway, and the other cast members. Even a subtle chord at the proper place does so much more then the sometimes overbearing weight that Williams soundtrack has on the movies. It's like using a RPG to kill an ant. It overpowers the movie in several places in my opinion.
 
I love both but Interstellar is depressing, and the music is a big part of it. It just has that foreboding unavoidable doom element to it in my mind. I do love it, but I can't listen to it over and over. And it certainly isn't very inspiring considering the themes it is conjuring. I also find it kind of exhausting to listen to if I let it go on for too long.

ESB on the other hand always gets me excited and I can listen to it over and over and never get tired of it. so I have to give the edge to ESB.

Interstellar along with so very much of Zimmer's work is masterful, and it really doesn't matter to me which is 'better' -- i'm happy we have so many great film OSTs to enrich our lives with.
 
Branduil said:
LMAO at this bullshit.
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Hey, I'm entitled to my opinion. When I watch Star Wars and hear the music, it makes me want to shout out at the action and fights. I don't get anything more than that from the soundtrack. To be honest, I feel the better scenes in the series came when there was no music at all, like Yoda training Luke on Dagobah.
 
Game4life said:
Having melodies is just one aspect of classical music though. When I say complexity and depth with not obviously recognizable melodies that take multiple listening sessions to appreciate I think of stuff like this - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9BQ1ylApto. Mazeppa is one of my all time favorite etude's. This is more complex piece than anything John Williams has ever written.

Now composers are veering towards this on piano - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FySi6xXkNqo

Now while I love Mazeppa I would think introducing the entire piece on film would be disastrous as the viewer would have to listen to the piece separately or view the accompanying scene multiple times to really appreciate the genius of the piece. Most films do not have such leeway which is why I argued against significant complexity in film music. Film music does not have to be complex to be good or do justice to the movie. The music of Fury Road and Interstellar work magnificently not because they are complex but because they work well in tandem with the images on screen. Same is the case with Jurassic Park or Indiana Jones. None of their music is inherently complex.
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There's a lot of very complex film scores out there, like Jerry Goldsmith's Planet of the Apes. Thing is, most of them are very old, when films were allowed to be more experimental. Or, for a John Williams example, his atonal score to Images.
 
Wynnebeck said:
Hey, I'm entitled to my opinion. When I watch Star Wars and hear the music, it makes me want to shout out at the action and fights. I don't get anything more than that from the soundtrack. To be honest, I feel the better scenes in the series came when there was no music at all, like Yoda training Luke on Dagobah.
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The fucking LIGHTSABER FIGHT is SO GOOD. So much tension without the score.
 
TRD or Inception I would maybe have agreed depending on my mood , Interstellar while fantastic is nowhere near godtier to compete with SW score.
 
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