• Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!

Frustration with the Kingdom Hearts series

Y

Yuripaw

Banned
I know at this point, the Kingdom Hearts series has become one of contention for some people (myself included at times). The series has become so convoluted with it's story, and hard to understand and appreciate because so many different entries and spin offs that have made following the narrative hard. Even still I loved the first KH when I played it. It was something fresh and new to me. Something SE hasn't done in a long time... and while KH2 had it's flaws, it was still a fun game. Sadly those are the only 2 in the series I have played to completion.

After Kingdom Hearts 2, the decision to make the games only on handhelds at that point really frustrated me. I think I'm not alone in wishing they would just make another console game for this series. At one time, it was a AAA series worthy of them putting some more effort into, instead of reusing old assets over and over.

As soon as the series split off between the 2 different handhelds of last generation (the PSP, and the DS), I haven't been able to follow the series, because whenever I tried to play any of them, they just weren't fun to play mostly due to the shitty controls. The hardware for the DS wasn't good enough I think to make the games look as pretty as they did on the PS2 also.

The DS game 358/2 days was horrible to try to get into because it just looked ugly to me visually. Also because it was a 3D game, it felt frustrating to control with a dpad. Never played Re:Coded, but after 358/2 days, I didn't really have any interest to.

At least PSP game Birth by Sleep seemed much more polished, and looked as good as some of the PS2 titles. I did really want to play it, but the problem is it was on the PSP, and that analog nub was pretty awful too making controls an issue for me. The fact that it was a PSP doesn't hurt it completely, but WHY couldn't they have done a digital release? I would love to play that game with the Vita's controls, but for some stupid reason they never thought it was worth it to put up on PSN.

Now we have Kingdom Hearts 3D Dream Drop Distance on the 3DS...and while it looks like another game that reuses assets again, and doesn't do much new...I would like to play it because it's a continuation of Kingdom Hearts 2. Sadly I don't know if I could get into it since I've missed out on all the stories of the previous handheld games, especially Birth by Sleep.

Which brings me to the reason why I started this thread to begin with. Why the hell hasn't there been more ports for this series already? I mean, SE loves to do remakes up the ass for Final Fantasy games, but why the hell can't they do an HD collection for KH already? or release Birth by Sleep for the 3DS also? Maybe put upgraded versions of KH 358/2 days and Re:Coded on PSVita or PSP? Ideally I would love all these games available as downloads on PS3, but I'll be reasonable...

Even the original PS2 KH games are a bit of a hassle to play anymore, because my PS2 is starting to get a little rough around the edges. I've moved on from wired controllers, and wanting to play games that look blurry on my TV because the system their on is not HD.

I just would like to be able to play this series without having to give in to the bull shit and oversights. Other publishers have come around, saw the dollar signs and re-released games on other platforms that make sense, but SE is still one of those publishers who have their heads up their ass and don't know what the right thing to do is. Kingdom Hearts is obviously a big franchise for them, but it feels like they just squander it, and don't even try to make the most out of it.
 
Haven't played a KH title since KH2, the handheld games have been milked to death and feel like filler due to lack of story development.

I really thought we'd see KH3 this gen. Then again I thought FFXIII was going to be amazing.
 
KH DDD has a bunch of flashbacks and informational areas for those who are new to the series or who have not played them all

it might be ok for you
 
I feel you man, KH is the most splintered franchise ever. You need 5 6 consoles just to follow the story. Every next iteration releases on a different platform.

As a player of only KH1 and 2, I hope I can still keep up with the story of KH3.
 
BurnOutBrighter said:
Haven't played a KH title since KH2, the handheld games have been milked to death and feel like filler due to lack of story development.

I really thought we'd see KH3 this gen. Then again I thought FFXIII was going to be amazing.
Click to expand...

Birth by Sleep had all sorts of story development.

Haven't been able to play 3D yet so not sure about that one.
 
With the new one, I finally have the system to play it on. But even from just playing the demo I can tell the story won't be easy to pick up. And the mixed reviews don't give me confidence that the gameplay will make up for it.

Either I buy this game on impulse or I think I'm done with the series. It's a shame because I loved the first two.
 
TurkishEmperor said:
I feel you man, KH is the most splintered franchise ever. You need 5 6 consoles just to follow the story. Every next iteration releases on a different platform.

As a player of only KH1 and 2, I hope I can still keep up with the story of KH3.
Click to expand...

I think BBS at least is a required play because I think that's where you got the info of the main villain, (the bald dude, he's the ultimate evil boss right?) and expand the lore about keyblade master and stuff. I haven't played 3D yet so don't know how important that one is.
 
The story was always terrible, I haven't played DDD, but generally GAF seems to think it's about on par with BbS, which was a really good game. They didn't decide to go handheld exclusive, they've just not got around to KH3 yet, when they do, I'm sure it'll be amazing.
 
Ya Square really needs to return the series to consoles. It's amazing how in the PS2 days this was one of their premiere series, and now we've gone 6 years without a real console entry. Horrible mismanagement on the part of Square-Enix, way worse than what they've done to Final Fantasy or anything else.

And the story needs to be rebooted, badly. Even as someone who has played all the games I have no idea what's going on anymore. If they ever bother to make a Kingdom Hearts 3 they need to basically make it the start of a new storyline or something, because what they have to work with right now is a convoluted mess of garbage.

The games have still been pretty high quality though. Haven't really been able to get into 3D yet though. That game has way too many weird systems and shit that I've yet to figure out and I'm 2 hours into it.
 
StuBurns said:
The story was always terrible, I haven't played DDD, but generally GAF seems to think it's about on par with BbS, which was a really good game. They didn't decide to go handheld exclusive, they've just not got around to KH3 yet, when they do, I'm sure it'll be amazing.
Click to expand...

Do you honestly believe that? I kinda gave up on that idea when Kingdom Hearts 3D DDD was announced. Even though Birth by Sleep didn't come out quite that long ago, I remember they confirmed they were making 1 game for PSP, and 1 game for DS a long time ago, so it wasn't surprising. I always figured that they'd do a Kingdom Hearts 3 after those, and that that game would be the continuation of KH2, since both Birth by sleep, and 358/2 were prequels.

Once KH3D DDD got announced, and that this was the game that takes place after KH2...I've given up on their being a true KH3 game.
 
I just started DDD and right from the get go I'm already confused by some of the new systems. They feel arbitrary, and watching the narrative trying to introduce them and justify them is kinda funny ("Here's a new traveling mechanic, just because"). I'm not denying how fun they end up feeling, but it's becoming less and less cohesive. Just a bunch of random fun ideas loosely connected.

I hope it starts clicking better.
 
Yeah I always thought that the Square/Disney crossover concept should've had a stand alone storyline with each iteration in the series having a new kid in the lead role.

And it would've made more sense to me if they had a normal, relatable person in the role of the protagonist. Kind of like the kids from The Never Ending Story etc.

But instead we got...what we got. It's way too complicated and surely its being going on for so long now that they're alienating what should potentially be their biggest target audience?
 
Callibretto said:
I think BBS at least is a required play because I think that's where you got the info of the main villain, (the bald dude, he's the ultimate evil boss right?) and expand the lore about keyblade master and stuff. I haven't played 3D yet so don't know how important that one is.
Click to expand...

BBS is the only spinoff game I ever wanted to play, sadly SE dont put that onto PSN.
 
Yuripaw said:
Do you honestly believe that? I kinda gave up on that idea when Kingdom Hearts 3D DDD was announced. Even though Birth by Sleep didn't come out quite that long ago, I remember they confirmed they were making 1 game for PSP, and 1 game for DS a long time ago, so it wasn't surprising. I always figured that they'd do a Kingdom Hearts 3 after those, and that that game would be the continuation of KH2, since both Birth by sleep, and 358/2 were prequels.

Once KH3D DDD got announced, and that this was the game that takes place after KH2...I've given up on their being a true KH3 game.
Click to expand...

No need to give up on having a true KH game. It was confirmed long before 3D came out that it would lead into 3 which will be on consoles.
 
Yuripaw said:
Do you honestly believe that? I kinda gave up on that idea when Kingdom Hearts 3D DDD was announced. Even though Birth by Sleep didn't come out quite that long ago, I remember they confirmed they were making 1 game for PSP, and 1 game for DS a long time ago, so it wasn't surprising. I always figured that they'd do a Kingdom Hearts 3 after those, and that that game would be the continuation of KH2, since both Birth by sleep, and 358/2 were prequels.

Once KH3D DDD got announced, and that this was the game that takes place after KH2...I've given up on their being a true KH3 game.
Click to expand...
They always said KH3 was going to happen once that team were free, as it was the team making Versus XIII, however, given the issues in that project, they've moved ahead with KH3 without those staff, presumably by the same team that made BbS and DDD. Nomura has said the next KH is 3, an SE staffer has said there's a console KH in development.

The only logical conclusion is despite the hang ups from Versus' development, KH3 is coming.
 
By the way, I totally forgot what happened at the end of KH2 and even though I played BbS last year the major plot points are escaping me. Does DDD do a good job of introducing new players or should I hit the wikis? I really don't care too much about the details and theories, just the highlights.
 
edotherocket said:
But instead we got...what we got. It's way too complicated and surely its being going on for so long now that they're alienating what should potentially be their biggest target audience?
Click to expand...

Do you mean kids? I dunno, I sometimes feel like I have a hard time following this shit, because I'm becoming an old man. I don't have as much time and energy as a little kid who could have spent all summer playing video games. You shouldn't underestimate kids and their ability to follow the bull shit nonsense that goes on in these games. I know I was the same way. I feel like I followed the story of Final Fantasy 7 much better when I was a kid...I have a hard time now actually. Kids are the ones keeping the series alive probably.
 
Kard8p3 said:
No need to give up on having a true KH game. It was confirmed long before 3D came out that it would lead into 3 which will be on consoles.
Click to expand...

StuBurns said:
They always said KH3 was going to happen once that team were free, as it was the team making Versus XIII, however, given the issues in that project, they've moved ahead with KH3 without those staff, presumably by the same team that made BbS and DDD. Nomura has said the next KH is 3, an SE staffer has said there's a console KH in development.

The only logical conclusion is despite the hang ups from Versus' development, KH3 is coming.
Click to expand...

Ah, well I wasn't aware of these facts. Even still....I'll need more proof than that before I believe anything SE says about games in development. At this rate, what system would KH3 even be on? I'm betting the Wii U, because by the time it comes out, the next generation of consoles will have come out, but I doubt SE is taking the time to work on a next gen game just yet. So in order to make it at least comparable to a PS3 title, the Wii U would make the most sense.
 
Thank God, I'm not the only one thinking along these lines.

I've always felt it's such a shame that the fundamental basis for this series is so unbelievably strong yet the execution is shoddy not from a pure technical perspective but more so from a story-telling one. Overly complex and unnecessary "deep" and confusing themes and plots.
 
Yuripaw said:
Ah, well I wasn't aware of these facts. Even still....I'll need more proof than that before I believe anything SE says about games in development. At this rate, what system would KH3 even be on? I'm betting the Wii U, because by the time it comes out, the next generation of consoles will have come out, but I doubt SE is taking the time to work on a next gen game just yet. So in order to make it at least comparable to a PS3 title, the Wii U would make the most sense.
Click to expand...
There were two years and two months between BbS and DDD, give it another two years and two months, it'll be June 2014, PS360 will still be comfortably viable if they can turn a KH3 around in that time, and they should be able to.
 
Mr. Bubble said:
I'm totally with you OP.



I read that whole thing and it did for me was reinforce how badly written KH is.

But this:

"And they’ll play Simple and Clean a few times along the way."

Genius.
Click to expand...

Ya know (not really sure if these are spoilers...but ok)
as much as I love Simple & Clean, and Sanctuary...it always drove me nuts hearing the songs rehashed in the portable games. Yes, they're great songs...but maybe have a new song for the games?!
geez...

This is what I mean about how the series used to be a AAA, high production series worthy of them actually putting effort into.

EDIT: To bring a little bit of positiveness in this thread from me, I looked up this trailer again for Kingdom Hearts 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84c2hpVwlD0

I remember sitting at my computer watching this trailer over and over, because I was so blown away by it. I loved the music, the visual style, seeing all the disney worlds being mashed together with Final Fantasy characters I was familiar with. It was so different, and I couldn't wait to get my hands on it. I miss those feelings I used to have for this series.
 
Don't play for the story. Play for the gameplay and rpg mechanics, and enjoy the story as much as you can along the way. Pretty sure it's what the entire fanbase is doing at this point.

If you can't overlook plot like that, and that ruins the game itself for you, then you're out of luck. It's just not for you.
 
Ah the typical 'Story of KH is shit and I don't understand it, cause I never played the spin-offs on handhelds'.

For people's information they are not (mostly) spin-offs.

Days, while many people thought it was gonna have no relevance, foreshadows and implies a lot of stuff and Xion with Roxas are pretty important to the KH plot nowadays.

Birth By Sleep is the best KH game ever made, with the best combat system, character development (storywise and gameplay wise) and story. It is absolutely necessary, because it actually tells you why a KH3 needs to happen. It was kinda weird seeing people cry out for KH3 after KH2 when really there was nothing to set-up KH3. BBS does this and adds an incredible layer of lore to the series. All in all, it's a mainline game.

Dream Drop Distance, while not as heavy on the story as BBS, still delivers with its combat and the importance to the overall plot as it is a bridge game between KH2 and KH3. KH3 will literally start where DDD left of.

Re:Coded is pretty much the only one you can argue as being non-essential, though it does explain what was in that message in the battle at the end of KH2 and foreshadows a lot about Sora's character.

Honestly you can fault the series for being on too many platforms, but you can't come in and say 'i don't get the story, the series is a mess' and then 'lolz, handheld games, who cares about them?'
 
Uh, DDD has all new worlds. I'm not sure where you're getting reused assets from for that game outside of the tutorial world. And even that first world has been completely redone. The same can be said for more than half of BBS too.
 
Mario007 said:
Honestly you can fault the series for being on too many platforms, but you can't come in and say 'i don't get the story, the series is a mess' and then 'lolz, handheld games, who cares about them?'
Click to expand...

The story is so badly written and presented, it prevents me of getting the big picture. It also prevents me from finishing the games.
 
Thoraxes said:
Uh, DDD has all new worlds. I'm not sure where you're getting reused assets from for that game outside of the tutorial world. And even that first world has been completely redone. The same can be said for more than half of BBS too.
Click to expand...

Well I admit I haven't seen much of DDD yet, but I watched some video and I saw traverse town yet again which looked the same. I'm also just referring to the look of the game being unchanged from KH1 or 2. It's been 10 years, and the games haven't changed visually a whole lot. I hope KH3 looks awesome if it really is coming.
 
They have a very specific look, a sort of chunkiness to them, but I'm happy to see it continue. It's all about the worlds they choose to introduce. I still have my finger's crossed for Pixar worlds.
 
zoukka said:
The story is so badly written and presented, it prevents me of getting the big picture. It also prevents me from finishing the games.
Click to expand...

Maybe you should actually finish the games then, before complaining about the story? I don't mean this in a smart-ass sort of way, but KH does put shitload of story and explanations into the last world.

Yuripaw said:
Well I admit I haven't seen much of DDD yet, but I watched some video and I saw traverse town yet again which looked the same. I'm also just referring to the look of the game being unchanged from KH1 or 2. It's been 10 years, and the games haven't changed visually a whole lot. I hope KH3 looks awesome if it really is coming.
Click to expand...

Maybe because it's been on machines that are similar in power to the ps2 (or even less powerful like the DS)
 
Yuripaw said:
Well I admit I haven't seen much of DDD yet, but I watched some video and I saw traverse town yet again which looked the same. I'm also just referring to the look of the game being unchanged from KH1 or 2. It's been 10 years, and the games haven't changed visually a whole lot. I hope KH3 looks awesome if it really is coming.
Click to expand...
Sure, that's a valid point. IMO, I think the visual style they stick with is probably going to remain. I think it's the most effective way to fit both KH-Universe and Disney characters into on game, and have it at least be stylistically cohesive. Unless of course you're speaking abouy an HD version of the same style, to which I say, sure, that would be pretty cool, and they could stand to get a little closer to the awesomeness in their cutscenes (because well, I think they look good anyways).

For a game based on mostly cartoon-related properties, I think the graphical style they've chosen has really served them well.

Traverse Town while the same in name is basically 90% different from how it's ever been, and has been redone, and expanded to accomodate the movement that flowmotion provides. Yes, the world aesthetic is still there (because if you call something a specific name, it should look like it), but has been slightly TWEWY-ified. Basically, same aesthetic, but completely different level design.

It's like going to Disney World and then going to Disney Land. It's still Disney and made out of rainbows and happiness, but it's still very different.
 
Yuripaw said:
Well I admit I haven't seen much of DDD yet, but I watched some video and I saw traverse town yet again which looked the same. I'm also just referring to the look of the game being unchanged from KH1 or 2. It's been 10 years, and the games haven't changed visually a whole lot. I hope KH3 looks awesome if it really is coming.
Click to expand...

Yeah, Traverse Town has new areas, and it's much more fun to go through thanks to being able to wall jump on everything. Everything else in the game is new.

Also I thought the PSN issue for BBS is because of Disney rights and them being reluctant to have them release it digitally.

And wasn't Birth By Sleep Kingdom Hearts 0 at sometime in development? If it was or wasn't, still kind of loling that Square Enix's horrible naming schemes prevented people from realizing that this game was important.
 
Mario007 said:
Maybe you should actually finish the games then, before complaining about the story? I don't mean this in a smart-ass sort of way, but KH does put shitload of story and explanations into the last world.
Click to expand...
In his defense though, it's easy to say that because I felt like when I was finishing KH2 that the story was getting a little too confusing. It's natural to assume that when you start playing the other games, I could tell they had the same style of writing as KH2, and were gonna be just as confusing.

Maybe because it's been on machines that are similar in power to the ps2 (or even less powerful like the DS)
Click to expand...
That's part of the problem though. We didn't want more games that were on less powerful hardware. We've been drooling and waiting for the illusive KH3 that could look better. We were ready since KH2, and they've given us more of the same.

FSLink said:
Also I thought the PSN issue for BBS is because of Disney rights and them being reluctant to have them release it digitally.
Click to expand...
I call bull shit on this. If Disney was so hesitant on releasing digitally, then why are Disney games on PSN? You can buy a bunch of their PS1 games, and Cars 2 as a full retail download.
 
I just wish the worlds weren't so tiny, empty, and severely lacking in design. Entire "worlds" with 3-4 NPCs, sometimes they even act as if they're populated and they're surrounded by people (Cinderella's dance party?). It's really barebone and depressing.
 
Jinfash said:
I just wish the worlds weren't so tiny, empty, and severely lacking in design. Entire "worlds" with 3-4 NPCs, sometimes they even act as if it's populated and they're surrounded by people (Cinderella's dance party?). It's really barebone and depressing.
Click to expand...
3d world is big(2 to 3 times of past world) but now there is no npc at all lol.
 
I think the main thing for me is that I was 12 when I played the original Kingdom Hearts game and I was 15 when I played Kingdom Hearts II.

Today I'm 21 and when I try to play DDD I just can't get past the awful dialogue, terrible cast and ridiculous plot full of stupid made up words that don't mean anything. I'm not a kid who doesn't know what good dialogue is anymore, I'm an adult who has a much greater understanding of how stories are told and what makes a good one. Sora is a fucking moron who I can't stand to play as anymore. This point is exemplified in Sora's initial interactions with Neku who is genuinely confused and irritated by Sora's idiotic happy-go-lucky nature which flies in the face of any situation. Neku actually betrays Sora at one point only for Sora to completely forgive him, saying something along the lines of "WE'RE FRIENDS, NEKU. FRIENDS." They have had no form of interaction even remotely bordering on friendship. Neku's characterisation is awful as well, especially compared to his presentation in the game he's actually from.

I'm one of the people who really loved the Kingdom Hearts series when I first played it. Now I doubt I'd be able to bring myself to get past the opening levels due to sheer annoyance at the awful dialogue.
 
ZimbAdam said:
I think the main thing for me is that I was 12 when I played the original Kingdom Hearts game and I was 15 when I played Kingdom Hearts II.

Today I'm 21 and when I try to play DDD I just can't get past the awful dialogue, terrible cast and ridiculous plot full of stupid made up words that don't mean anything. I'm not a kid who doesn't know what good dialogue is anymore, I'm an adult who has a much greater understanding of how stories are told and what makes a good one. Sora is a fucking moron who I can't stand to play as anymore. This point is exemplified in Sora's initial interactions with Neku who is genuinely confused and irritated by Sora's idiotic happy-go-lucky nature which flies in the face of any situation. Neku actually betrays Sora at one point only for Sora to completely forgive him, saying something along the lines of "WE'RE FRIENDS, NEKU. FRIENDS." They have had no form of interaction even remotely bordering on friendship. Neku's characterisation is awful as well, especially compared to his presentation in the game he's actually from.

I'm one of the people who really loved the Kingdom Hearts series when I first played it. Now I doubt I'd be able to bring myself to get past the opening levels due to sheer annoyance at the awful dialogue.
Click to expand...
lol buy drop me not and play only riku side. This game is all about riku anyway :-P
 
gosox333 said:
That's interesting. I always thought the Disney thing was the reason for no PSN. Wonder what's stopping them, then?
Click to expand...

Maybe they feel it'd make more money if they did a HD rerelease on PS3? Or a technical problem.

KH1 FM + KH2 FM + KH BBS FM HD Collection would be awesome. :/
 
I'm guessing by 'drop me not' you mean DDD? Yeah, I'm like three worlds into it, been playing both sides. Riku is just as annoying as Sora, albeit in different ways. He's still such an angsty, whiny douche who's constantly talking about THE DARKNESS IN MY HEEEAAAAAARTTTTTTT. Essentially, Kingdom Hearts is a series for young teenagers. I am not a young teenager anymore.
 
Most of the dialogue is terrible, and I have an incredibly hard time getting past it during story segments.

I loved the first one and had fun with the second one, I was honestly kinda sad I couldn't get into the later games as I'm a pretty big fan of portable gaming and was first thrilled when days and bbs were announced.

edit: now that I think about it I would have been around 13 when I played the first game, and I haven't played it since, I didn't realise this series was 10 years old o-o
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Kingdom Hearts Remake is coming early 2027, with KH4 launching in winter 2027
Rumor  2 3
112
2K
TheLikou replied
Kingdom Hearts Integrum Masterpiece May Be Headed to Nintendo Switch 2
Rumor 
44
890
Lambogenie replied
Kingdom Come Deliverance - PS5/Series Upgrade Announced - Free for Owners - PC Ultra Settings + 60FPS
3 4 5 6 7
343
4K
Zephyranthes replied
Digital Foundry: Kingdom Come Deliverance Current-Gen Upgrade: PS5/PS5 Pro/Xbox Series X|S Review
13
548
onQ123 replied
Kingdom Hearts IV – new screenshots
2
76
3K
Davevil replied
Top Bottom