boredandlazy
Member
Don't you remember all the PS4 games lacking next-gen gameplay released at the start of this gen? It means fuck-all to anyone with their head screwed on straight.
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Fumito Ueda on The Last Guardian's game design
- Thread starter Lifejumper
- Start date
Limiting the player in one aspect in order to enhance another aspect is pretty basic game design. Want the player to use all the weapons available to them and not just the rocket launcher? Limit the ammo. Want the player to not spam? Add a stamina meter. Etc.
If this game wants the focus to be on the player working together with the creature, then you don't make it too fun or too easy for the player character to handle everything on their own. You make it more fun for them to work together.
Laurel_McFang
Member
Ico failed to sell more than a million units in its first 2 years and total sales for SoTC for ps2 are estimated at a little over a million. So if The Last Guardian manages to sell Bloodborne level sales that would be a success for Ueda. Note: not including ps3 remaster just ps2 sales figures.
PhantomZhu
Banned
Has to be weird for Sony to have a guy who never makes games that sells, but both games reached legendary status both from critics and fans.
Hope Ueda gets a lucky break with this one. Feel like LTG isn't even his final form.
Callibretto
Member
Uncharted had top of the line graphics, had online multiplayer, it's also an action game with multiple difficulty mode.
Last guardian wont have that. And puzzle game usually only have 1 solution for their puzzles.
This makes zero sense. You are speaking about trends, not out-dated gameplay.
eyeball_kid
Member
Oh, I know TLG isn't combat-focused. I'm surprised it even has combat, and I guess I would my point would be: don't include the combat if it's mediocre. Find another way to convey that Trico is powerful while entertaining the player.
In any case, I just think it's funny that Ueda would say "the combat isn't very fun" while doing interviews intended to create hype for the game. I guess he sure doesn't have any Sony PR giving him talking points.
Yeah, I think people forget that Ico was hard to find when word-of-mouth finally got around that it was good. It really was more of a cult game for a while.
I guess? And I didn't say 'out-dated', I said dated game design. As in "this feels like it was made in another decade" is a possibility.
Nightengale
Member
It'll feel like an Ueda game, aka the developer that popularised game design of "remove everything superfluous to the core objective of the game" which is the exact inverse of today's modern "checklist game design "
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
Ueda is a genius in game design. I have faith and hope he makes more games.
Officerrob
Banned
I think that's a very high estimate
mcz117chief
Member
He just considers it a tool of the narrative. There are enemies in the world that Trico has to fight against but fighting isn't the focus of the game, it is most likely there just to make the story progress in the way Ueda want's it to progress.
Laurel_McFang
Member
1. I read the combat implications differently that perhaps Trico subverts typical combat expectations making the player rethink their relationship with him after all the elders warned the boy about Trico. Hence by not fun perhaps combat consists of Trico mauling people / death lazers and the boy trying to figure out how to placate Trico. Regardless the game is supposed ho keep you guessing for if a section will be combat or puzzle.
2. I don't recall the game being hard to find for me at least. Although I did end up ordering both from amazon for more than the remaster on ps3 goes for today. Honestly the remaster is so cheap I almost want to gift copies of it.
Nightengale
Member
It's hard to tell. TLG has top billing at Sony's E3 conference last year and got a lot of eyeballs seeing the game. (4.8 mil on YT)
YT views don't translate to sales, but it does mean there's an interest and awareness of TLG that isn't insignificant. Depending on marketing, 1 million isn't impossible I think.
FantasticMrFoxdie
Mumber
Yup. All of the stuff he is saying in the video is just great. I can tell this is going to be something else
Acquiescence
Member
The release date announcement is so close now, I can practically smell it.
For the last time very little time has been spent on the actual design of the game (level design, gameplay mechanica, ect) over all these years. Most of this time was spent on waiting for ps4 hardware and then porting the complicated ps3 engine to ps4. This has been explained multiple times by Sony, Yoshida, and noe Ueda.
If any reviews ask "what did they do over all this time" I am going to blow up.
SprachBrooks
Member
Man, I honestly do not understand what the fun factor is with these games. I tried to get hyped for this but I hated the emptiness of the previous two games. For those that have been waiting, I hope this turns out as good as they hoped.
On a side note, Ueda mentioned being disappointed when development moved over to PS4. I'm going to infer from this and what other stuff he mentioned that development on PS3 was actually progressing and it could have realistically been released on there; Sony just decided that this would be better a PS4 title.
On a side note, Ueda mentioned being disappointed when development moved over to PS4. I'm going to infer from this and what other stuff he mentioned that development on PS3 was actually progressing and it could have realistically been released on there; Sony just decided that this would be better a PS4 title.
The fact that the game literally skipped a generation and was in development for like 10 years? Look, I love both ICO and SotC, but even if Ueda had a "vision" it's hard for me to believe he manage to convey this vision when he couldn't get the game to work for years.
Lol nope. The game was running at 15 fps at best there was no way they would have been able to get it any higher without sacrificing his vision. He is probably just disappointed that he was not able to deliver on ps3 for the fans.
SolidSnakex
Member
Mind explaining why?
The development issues have never been about game design issues but rather issues with the PS3 just not running the game well.
outunderthestars
Banned
Source for this?
This is very true. I first played RE maybe 3 years ago but was fascinated and so impressed by what the developers did with one single building and the limitations they had with the system. It's arguable that with limitations often comes more innovation (to a certain extent at least) because you have to utilise what you have better.
GifGafIsTheBestGaf
Member
these IGN first are so good, wish they were longer though
SolidSnakex
Member
Source for what? I posted a quote where Ueda is saying that the game design hasn't changed since the very beginning, and it's well known that the PS3 version ran horribly. So if the game design hasn't changed and the PS3 version was running horribly, then it's obvious that the issue never was the game design.
Spring-Loaded
Member
If it has to either be more like ICO or SotC, then it's a win-win
John Kowalski
Banned
Nice to see that he's just doing another one of his games instead of playing it up as some ĂĽber incarnation to end his award winning trilogy or something. Man has his heart on the right place.
LifeBrandRobot
Member
Sony makes a lot of weird stuff that doesn't sell lol. Thats why 1 million and 2 million sold are announcement worthy milestones for them.
As someone who has SotC in his top 5 games of all time, but is routinely bored with Ico, I don't think I'll love this game that much, but some Ueda is still better than no Ueda at all.
Sony funds these games knowing that they most likely won't bring much profit if any.
Ico is my favorite of the two games so gameplay more in line with that is fine with me. I was hoping for an additional area or two after that Edge article but if there's a reasonable variety of locations within the ruins (the ruins seem pretty massive and spread out after all) I'll be happy.
His comments about the combat aren't really a surprise to me at all. Combat in Ico basically existed to bond you to Yorda and I assume the same is true here with the boy and Toriko.
I hope IGN has a bit more gameplay footage for us at the end of this but I'm enjoying the interview so far.
His comments about the combat aren't really a surprise to me at all. Combat in Ico basically existed to bond you to Yorda and I assume the same is true here with the boy and Toriko.
I hope IGN has a bit more gameplay footage for us at the end of this but I'm enjoying the interview so far.
Nightengale
Member
Yup.
http://www.inquisitr.com/1336485/sony-most-playstation-first-party-games-are-not-profitable/
Shu Yoshida quote :
Why do you think EA/Activision/other publishers are all about big hits only? It's because their business revolves entirely around profitability, whereas Sony has some leeway to think about making their platform appealing. If it's for the sake of selling consoles, they can afford to treat WWS as a cost-centre/cinema model of making money instead of every single game being profitable.
Of course, this is getting harder and harder to do in this day and age where games are getting costlier and costlier and a major bomb is disastrous.
YankeeDonB
Member
Definitely, but not just to bond Ico and Yorda, also to emphasize that Ico is just a kid - he can swipe at shadows, but he's no great warrior. Emphasizes player vulnerability and reinforces that the solution to problems will require being clever/working together.
It also helps that as a whole (management/leadership) think Sony wants to make games and enjoys it too. I never got that vibe from Microsoft (minus Phil Spencer and a couple other MS people)
Aressa
You can't die before your death
Yes we don't see companies experiment and it's why the rise of the indie. Mostly the same 101 design in gaming. Tearaway, puppeteer and other ideas you don't see often.
Kenzodielocke
Banned
I fear a huge backlash for this game, because I don't see it being longer than 7-9h. And it makes me sad already.
Those people most likely had no interest in the game to begin with.
Maybe from people who haven't played ICO and SotC.
Acquiescence
Member
Yeah, it's a shame that people now more than ever equate quality with quantity, but it might fare okay. To throw out a very recent example, Until Dawn was a 9 hour, single player-only game, and I don't recall there being much of a kerfuffle regarding its short length.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
He only backlash this game will get if its boring. After all the OMG TLG BASED UEDA hype goes down and you look at the actual experience, is it good? Does it work? I'm not asking if it's "fun" mind you, but is the game itself in combination of its many components form a compelling video game? That remains to be seen, cuz honestly the E3 demo left me with some doubts that kinda got scrubbed over because WHO CARES IF ITS KINDA BORING ITS THE LAST GUADIANNNNNN
I bet they didn't fund this game knowing it was going to take 11 years to come out, though.
I honestly wonder what's the cumulative budget of this thing. It will probably never make any money, but I really doubt the project was greenlit with that in mind. SotC didn't bomb. It sold a million in America alone, just on PS2.Grey and sepia tones are Ueda's thing. I think about the only vibrant color he's had in any of the games he's helmed is Ico's red shirt, and that was 15 years ago.
It helps sell the desolate settings of Ico and SotC really well, and I don't see that changing much here.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
So you want unique and creative gameplay focus tested to fit exactly what modern gamers expect
?
Aressa
You can't die before your death
I bet they didn't fund this game knowing it was going to take 11 years to come out, though.
Not much according to Ueda. Can't find the link at the moment.
DriftingSpirit
Member
Well, it wasn't in constant development for the last decade. In fact, I believe Shu said the cost isn't anything outrageous.I bet they didn't fund this game knowing it was going to take 11 years to come out, though.
Edit -http://segmentnext.com/2015/06/26/the-last-guardian-is-a-small-team-low-budget-game-lower-than-horizon/
I bet they didn't fund this game knowing it was going to take 11 years to come out, though.
Well it hasn't been in constant development all these years, so it's not like they've just been pissing away money or anything.
ICO is few hours in the console, forever in my heart.
I'm not surprised to hear that, especially since Ueda prefers smaller teams to begin with and all the projects that Japan studio has had between the game's announcement and its somewhat imminent release would have put the game on hold in any event.