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Gabe from Valve owns the X360
- Thread starter maynerd
- Start date
dlobro1080
Member
>>Splitting the userbase is ALWAYS a bad thing. Especially for development purposes. That MS is doing it RIGHT AT LAUNCH is a boneheaded dumb move. I'd rather have 400 bucks being the only possible price for the 360 with standard HD than have the 300 bucks retard pack screwing everything up.
Of course the damn thing should have been 300 with HD included. YOU LOSE MONEY AT THE START ON CONSOLES MICROSOFT WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU?
Edit: And don't even argue with me about how splitting the userbase isn't all that horrible a strategy. It is on many many levels.<<
Allow me to "even" argue with you! Let me say I don't diagree with what you're saying. In any business, dividing the user base is bad, and especially so in videogames. But if you look at what MS is doing a little more, closely, it is NOT dividing the user base. They're not dividing the user base because the product they're selling is the Xbox 360, not a hard drive. You want a hard drive and all that other shit (as I do)? You can get it in the $400 package. You don't play online, but you want to play the games available, period? You can get the $300 package. Bottom line is, while we diehards may feel that not packing in an HD across the board is a step backwards, MS is going to move more systems by having different price points. Think iPod. Plus, they can now advertise, "Xbox 360 available for $299." I seriously doubt that Sony will be able to do that once its blu-ray equipped machine comes out.
Of course the damn thing should have been 300 with HD included. YOU LOSE MONEY AT THE START ON CONSOLES MICROSOFT WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU?
Edit: And don't even argue with me about how splitting the userbase isn't all that horrible a strategy. It is on many many levels.<<
Allow me to "even" argue with you! Let me say I don't diagree with what you're saying. In any business, dividing the user base is bad, and especially so in videogames. But if you look at what MS is doing a little more, closely, it is NOT dividing the user base. They're not dividing the user base because the product they're selling is the Xbox 360, not a hard drive. You want a hard drive and all that other shit (as I do)? You can get it in the $400 package. You don't play online, but you want to play the games available, period? You can get the $300 package. Bottom line is, while we diehards may feel that not packing in an HD across the board is a step backwards, MS is going to move more systems by having different price points. Think iPod. Plus, they can now advertise, "Xbox 360 available for $299." I seriously doubt that Sony will be able to do that once its blu-ray equipped machine comes out.
Mr_Furious
Member
I'm not debating his points but honestly what would you expect him to say? Steam sucks? This is business we're talking about here. Any developer that will subscribe to using Steam will obviously be attracted to the potential increased profit margin per unit sold.chespace said:
Mr_Furious said:
The purpose isn't to amaze everyone with the fact that Tom Mustaine from Ritual is PRO-STEAM, but rather, to get their perspective on why Steam is good across to readers. I'm sure profit is one reason, but that doesn't invalidate the other appealing factors for developers.
Our 15 minute Gabe Newell video interview is up.
Watch him bag on Longhorn, Xbox 360, PS3, and more!
http://valve.1up.com
Watch him bag on Longhorn, Xbox 360, PS3, and more!
http://valve.1up.com
Hmm, seems to me Gabe is crying about next gen because he can't put STEAM on there as a standard. Too fucking bad.
Also, he goes into this rant about the PS3 SPEs, and while I won't disagree with what he says, he then goes into a tangent about STEAM right after. I was like whaaaaaat?. Steam will make next gen gaming easier? Ok. He talks about connecting customers but never brings up Xbox Live.
He does have a love affair with WoW, though. Of course he does seeing how much money the game is making for Blizzard.
Also, he goes into this rant about the PS3 SPEs, and while I won't disagree with what he says, he then goes into a tangent about STEAM right after. I was like whaaaaaat?. Steam will make next gen gaming easier? Ok. He talks about connecting customers but never brings up Xbox Live.
He does have a love affair with WoW, though. Of course he does seeing how much money the game is making for Blizzard.
I'm not sure what to think about his comments on the SPEs. He makes it sound like if you make one tiny change to one of the SPEs it could bring the whole process to a screeching halt and you don't know why. That doesn't sound good. Perhaps MS multi core approach is better but even that seems to have its problems. I'm wondering if it'll take a good 3 years or so before any company truly figures out how to program for X360 and PS3. It seemed to me that he did rag a little more about the PS3 than X360. His biggest complaint about the X360 seemed to be the lack of a standard hdd. His was pretty 'steamed' about having to code for all the different SPEs. Of course, Valve is primarily a PC developer, so I take any comments from PC developers on the console side with a huge grain of salt.
wow, the little quotes you put up made it seem like he was just bitching for the whole interview, i thought that was just hyperbole, but nope, he really did just bitch bitch bitch about everything (that he didnt design). Still i guess you have to be a bit like that to be as successful as him.
RobotChant
Member
dlobro1080 said:
They're selling a game playing device. A device that is dependant on products that has yet to be designed and developed. An Ipod model would be to have a smaller but still very functionally HD in the $300 package, and have a larger HD in the $400 package. Because of this game developers will need to take into consideration the lowest denominator or lose out on a potential customer. Customers will also have to make sure games are functional with their HD less package. That is dividing the userbase.
Aruarian Reflection
Chauffeur de la gdlk
Mrbob said:
Donuts, probably.
All right I found a template for someone to work on. The name is spelled wrong, and you may need to change this from Xbox 360 to PS3 after that whinefest:
Gabe needs to stop doing interviews if all he is going to do is cry about everything that isn't Steam. Or WoW I guess (Which he likes because of all the $$$ Blizzard is making). It puts him, and Valve, in a negative light. Maybe he is spot on and next generation of gaming is doomed. But I doubt it.
Gabe needs to stop doing interviews if all he is going to do is cry about everything that isn't Steam. Or WoW I guess (Which he likes because of all the $$$ Blizzard is making). It puts him, and Valve, in a negative light. Maybe he is spot on and next generation of gaming is doomed. But I doubt it.
I think he was actually wearing white but the gravitational pull is so great than no light can escape.
Disclaimer: Gabe Newell is a genius and his size in no way diminishes the value of his opinons, Im a fat bastard myself and if i cant take the piss out of other fat people then god dammit i might as well just choke on this doughnut thats in my mouth right now.
Disclaimer: Gabe Newell is a genius and his size in no way diminishes the value of his opinons, Im a fat bastard myself and if i cant take the piss out of other fat people then god dammit i might as well just choke on this doughnut thats in my mouth right now.
Hurricane_Chris
DDK
chespace said:Our 15 minute Gabe Newell video interview is up.
Watch him bag on Longhorn, Xbox 360, PS3, and more!
http://valve.1up.com
Do the video interviews have text somewhere? If you are going to post a video interview in proprietary formats (there are people who are interested in your features but don't have a Windows or OSX box) please put up text somewhere.
Doom_Bringer
Banned
After watcing that I am sure that HL3 or whatever their next game WON'T be released on PS3.
Beer Monkey
Member
Steam is a big fat money pump into Gabe's pocket. It bypasses the distributor and retailer margins, giving Valve the whole pie. Of course he loves it, but that doesn't mean it's owed to him. Consoles are closed platforms and you'll get whatever functionality the maker provides. Get over it, or ignore this very lucrative market. Boo frickin' hoo, give me a break.
Kabuki Waq
Member
he brings up some good points in the interview but I dont like the way he glossed over how shitty the steam experiance is for GAMERS.
hukasmokincaterpillar
Member
chespace said:
Well, if I was looking for a cynical outlook on the coming trials and tribulations of adapting to this new multi-core hardware and next gen console development in general... a stalwart PC house like Valve would certainly be the first place Id go to. Especially one that could stand to see the majority of their legacy code become obsolete along with the engine they spent the last 5 years creating, meanwhile getting lapped in the middle-ware sweepstakes by Epic in the process.
Just sayin'.
After watching the video, I am unsure why anyone is giving Gabe a hard time about his stance on next gen consoles. He is just being straightforward and we should applaud his honesty. The truth is that coding in a sequential processor environment versus a parallel processor environment is like re-inventing the wheel. As I recall, John Carmack echoed these same sentiments.
Just because Hideo Kojima isn't talking about this publicly doesn't mean he isn't banging his head against a wall in Japan somewhere right now. Gabe wants to be spending his time doing worthwile things with his software that will increase the quality of the user experience. Do any of you really have a problem with that? I only wish all devs had these same aspirations. (EA, are you listening??????)
Just because Hideo Kojima isn't talking about this publicly doesn't mean he isn't banging his head against a wall in Japan somewhere right now. Gabe wants to be spending his time doing worthwile things with his software that will increase the quality of the user experience. Do any of you really have a problem with that? I only wish all devs had these same aspirations. (EA, are you listening??????)
Mrbob said:
I don't think Gabe had any inkling that Steam could go on Live. I am sure MS wouldn't let anything of the sort happen. It's Live that will be a content delivery system. Steam never had a chance and will never have one. I'll eat crow if Steam ever ends up on a console.
Particle Physicist
between a quark and a baryon
you people are assholes..
Gabe has a lot of good points and his remarks on Blizzard / WoW are spot on. Like it or not Blizzard has built up an insanely large community inside and outside of WoW. When you play a Blizzard game you are getting the full experience and that's half the reason they are so damn popular.
And he's frustrated because instead of spending time building a solid product and nurturing a community of players / fans he has to reinvent the wheels for "better" hardware that feature things that no one has asked for. Just like he said, he looks at PS3, 360 and even Vista and says "I didn't ask for any of this. How is this going to help me as a game designer?"
But go ahead and keep making fun of his weight as if that invalidates any of his points.
And he's frustrated because instead of spending time building a solid product and nurturing a community of players / fans he has to reinvent the wheels for "better" hardware that feature things that no one has asked for. Just like he said, he looks at PS3, 360 and even Vista and says "I didn't ask for any of this. How is this going to help me as a game designer?"
But go ahead and keep making fun of his weight as if that invalidates any of his points.
Redbeard said:
Because MS would never allow such a thing?
Why would they want to open up their network and have to worry about Steam?
Trust me, I'm not saying it's technically impossible - I'm just saying it doesn't make any sense on MS's part to allow Steam to run on their infrastructure.
Valve could easily deliver their content over Live just like everyone else. What makes them so damn special?
Developers! Developers! Developers!
No hard drive for you! Ahahahahah!
chespace said:
Because his complaints seemed to revolve around Steam. While he is worried about console manufacturers pushing their specialized hardware down their throats, not everyone is exactly happy to see the future of gaming with STEAM shoved down our throats. Again, I don't disagree with him that next gen will be a bitch, but you knew his complaints revolved around Steam when he started talking about the PS3 SPE issue. He started talking about how the PS3 SPE setup is such a pain in the ass and then he twisted into talking about Steam again. I'd love to here him talk about something without Steam this or Steam that. It makes his comments seem disingenuous.
Plus you gotta move on eventually. You can't reuse your same code forever. Plus his multi core complaints seem a little strange. You are starting to see Intel and AMD offer multi core solutions. This is the future of PC desktop processors too.
Whining about losing portable code is all well and good and is a legitimate concern, but at what point will it be acceptable to him to no longer be able to use legacy code? I mean, should developers that have old code hanging around from the Atari days be complaining because it's not usable on PS2 anymore? The multi-core change was going to happen at some point, and regardless of when it happened there was going to be whining. It's happening on PCs now too so the developers have to face the music and deal with it. They can build up processes by which to deal with it or not code for these machines, it's that simple, but at some point that decision would have to be made, if not now then on the next go 'round.
Ok, now that I got my Gabe rant out of the way, I took a peak at the Xbox video. Looks really good in motion.
Also, Aftermath is going to be awesome. Can't wait to see the story pick up at the end of Half Life 2.
SiN episodes sounds preetty cool, too. I just hope we don't get charged an arm and long for all 6 episodes.
Also, Aftermath is going to be awesome. Can't wait to see the story pick up at the end of Half Life 2.
SiN episodes sounds preetty cool, too. I just hope we don't get charged an arm and long for all 6 episodes.
Ewww, just watched the Sin Episodes video and while a price wasn't mentioned the first price that was suggested is 15 bucks.
15 X 6 = 90 dollars
*sigh*
He is also talking about 3 to 6 hours for each episode. So we are basically paying 40 more dollars for just the game for the privalage of playing it via STEAM. :/
15 X 6 = 90 dollars
*sigh*
He is also talking about 3 to 6 hours for each episode. So we are basically paying 40 more dollars for just the game for the privalage of playing it via STEAM. :/
AltogetherAndrews
Member
Mrbob said:
With episodal content, developers can stress content creation over development of new technology for each new installation in a series. Meaning, the price could very well come down as the production becomes more streamlined.
And at $30 for a possible 12 hours, it doesn't sound much worse than the typical game these days.
I have to say Tom Mustaine makes a great point at the end of the video. He talks about how gamers don't finish games nowadays. With episodic content spread out over a long time it gives gamers time to play the game in small bursts, get the game done, and move onto the next episode. In that area I do agree with him about episodic content.
I'm not against episodic content, and despite my complaints over the price I will get SiN episodes just to see how it turns out. I didn't play the original so I'm glad to hear it is going to be offered available, and upgraded, on Steam.
This is true, but when I hear a developer state a range of gameplay time I usually consider the lower end. Many games do clock in around 8-12 hours nowadays.
I'm not against episodic content, and despite my complaints over the price I will get SiN episodes just to see how it turns out. I didn't play the original so I'm glad to hear it is going to be offered available, and upgraded, on Steam.
This is true, but when I hear a developer state a range of gameplay time I usually consider the lower end. Many games do clock in around 8-12 hours nowadays.