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[PeakPointMatrix]

So the five types of responses so far:

HENTAI BULLSHIT = Literally setting gaming back by hundreds of years. Eye rape. Bury Sonic he's dead, every game since S3+K has been worst game of the generation.
SHIT = Anything other than perfect a genesis copy of controls and physics is utter shit.
ONLY GOOD = Nothing special, not inherently bad though
GREAT = Colors and Generations are genuinely great games in their own right.
A BLAST! = Haven't had this much fun since the classic days! Hell I enjoy the modern portions over the classic!

Good luck Sega, pleasing your fans.

I personally place myself in the GREAT pile for the recent Colors and Gen. The games are seriously fun, which is a key factor to any game. It doesn't need perfect physics to be fun. Fun is why I fell in love with the series back in the Genny days. Of course your going to have extreme hyperbole GAF argue that every Sonic game released are the worst games released ever, but how level-headed does that sound?

I hate how needlessly the word "SHIT" and "UNPLAYABLE" are thrown around here. Do you people even know what those words mean? Sonic 06 is shit and unplayable. Skyrim PS3 as well. Save those words for when they actually apply. These over exaggerations are fucking embarrassing to read.

 

[To Far Away Times]

jesus, the modern sonic stuff was great in both colors & generations, this is some hyperbole right here. did you guys stop playing mario when it went 3D too?

No, Mario is almost as good in 3D as it is in 2D. Every 3D Mario is a must play title. The games are a little bit different but they are still really damn good.

Sonic Adventure was a diarrhea dump on the classic games.

 

[IrishNinja]

Mario 64 reinvented the series in a way people weren't even imagining.

Sonic Adventure haphazardly adapted Sonic gameplay to 3D, and most iterations thereafter have been plugging one hole while creating another.

yeah, this comparison in particular shows that - i recall enjoying SA1 a lot, but going back, it's aged poorly. i dug 2 more, personally, and dont in anyway think they should be responsible for the piss-poor output that followed them. stuff like Unleashed had moments of fun, bogged down by fetch-quests and all kindsa unecessary shit too.

but Mario 64 still amazes me, as so few classic series survived the transition from 2 to 3D, and that one - followed by Zelda 64 - did so nearly flawlessly for me. i would, however, argue that even if Sonic Adventure 1 had been that kind've landmark, the mid-2000's sega might very well still've put out the shit they did, it just would've been worse for the dropoff.

what sucks is that much of what's great about Generations is revisiting classic stuff (not to say that's not awesome, playing 3D levels in 2D and vice-versa was cool), while Sonic Colors did so much new shit on its own that a lotta people here aren't gonna discover because a) modern sonic and b) wii.

No, Mario almost is almost as good in 3D as it is in 2D. Every 3D Mario is a must play title. The games are a little bit different but they are still really damn good.

Sonic Adventure was a diarrhea dump on the classic games.

i don't even know what to do with this, so let's start some shit: SA2 > Mario Sunshine. there it is.

 

[Kujo]

Generations is a ton better than Sunshine

I'd like a Generations 2 but with entirely new levels next time

 

[Speevy]

Having played the Generations demo, I think Sonic is about as good as it's ever gonna get in 3D, and people need to take it or leave it.

Obviously someone is still buying this series after 20 years, so Sega does well to meet anyone's expectations.

It's certainly bright and colorful, which gives it a plus among this generation's console efforts I think.

 

[Anth0ny]

So the five types of responses so far:

HENTAI BULLSHIT = Literally setting gaming back by hundreds of years. Eye rape. Bury Sonic he's dead, every game since S3+K has been worst game of the generation.
SHIT = Anything other than perfect a genesis copy of controls and physics is utter shit.
ONLY GOOD = Nothing special, not inherently bad though
GREAT = Colors and Generations are genuinely great games in their own right.
A BLAST! = Haven't had this much fun since the classic days! Hell I enjoy the modern portions over the classic!

Good luck Sega, pleasing your fans.

I personally place myself in the GREAT pile for the recent Colors and Gen. The games are seriously fun, which is a key factor to any game. It doesn't need perfect physics to be fun. Fun is why I fell in love with the series back in the Genny days. Of course your going to have extreme hyperbole GAF argue that every Sonic game released are the worst games released ever, but how level-headed does that sound?

I hate how needlessly the word "SHIT" and "UNPLAYABLE" are thrown around here. Do you people even know what those words mean? Sonic 06 is shit and unplayable. Skyrim PS3 as well. Save those words for when they actually apply. These over exaggerations are fucking embarrassing to read.

I don't fall in any of those categories. Do I need to post a tier list?

Great tier: (The classics. I could go back to these and play them any time and have a blast.)

Sonic 2
Sonic 3K
Sonic 1

Good tier: (Fun games with some great qualities, but have some stuff that drags them down)

Sonic Generations
Sonic Adventure 2 Battle
Sonic Advance
Sonic CD

Meh tier: (The negatives are about equal to the positives, but still playable.)

Sonic Adventure 1
Sonic Heroes
Sonic Battle

Shit tier: (The negatives FAR outweigh the positives, and I can't have fun while playing these games. Except in Sonic 06's case, which falls under the so bad it's hilarious category.)

Sonic 4
Sonic Advance 2
Sonic Advance 3
Knuckles Chaotix
Sonic Rush
Sonic 06
Sonic Colors
Sonic Unleashed

In case you haven't noticed, I don't like boost.

 

[Dark Schala]

Anth0ny... do you still like Sonic 2006 over Sonic Colours now that you've played the Shadow parts a little?

what sucks is that much of what's great about Generations is revisiting classic stuff (not to say that's not awesome, playing 3D levels in 2D and vice-versa was cool), while Sonic Colors did so much new shit on its own that a lotta people here aren't gonna discover because a) modern sonic and b) wii.

And this is most unfortunate because the game is good fun.

So the five types of responses so far:

HENTAI BULLSHIT = Literally setting gaming back by hundreds of years. Eye rape. Bury Sonic he's dead, every game since S3+K has been worst game of the generation.
SHIT = Anything other than perfect a genesis copy of controls and physics is utter shit.
ONLY GOOD = Nothing special, not inherently bad though
GREAT = Colors and Generations are genuinely great games in their own right.
A BLAST! = Haven't had this much fun since the classic days! Hell I enjoy the modern portions over the classic!

Good luck Sega, pleasing your fans.

And Generations was developed with the idea of trying to appease everyone in mind. I don't think that's ever going to happen at this rate. I don't really know what people want anymore, though maybe more Retro Engine games may fix that.

I'd... like to think I fit into the "Great" category. *shrug* I've had lots of fun with those games and that's all that matters to me.

And aw, only one person falls into the hentai bullshit Sonic category. :lol

 

[BlazeHedgehog]

Mario 64 reinvented the series in a way people weren't even imagining.

Sonic Adventure haphazardly adapted Sonic gameplay to 3D, and most iterations thereafter have been plugging one hole while creating another.

This is kind of an incorrect assessment, though. Sonic Adventure didn't really adapt Sonic gameplay to 3D at all - even from the first game, it was a pretty significant departure from the structure of the Genesis games.

Sonic Adventure was the start of Sonic Team breaking things down in to character classes. Instead of having Sonic, Tails, and Knuckles who all experienced the same game in different ways, Sonic Adventure made each character a completely different style of gameplay.

The Sega Genesis Sonic games were a balance of three elements: Speed, exploration, and honest-to-goodness platforming. Levels were huge, multi-tiered monsters with multiple ways to play through them. There were often high roads, low roads, and plenty of middle roads with intersections between the three, and each path adhered to those three core level design elements. Sonic 3 kept the same basic principals, but introduced areas that only Tails could reach by flying, or Knuckles could reach by climbing or digging.

Sonic Adventure took the Speed, Exploration, and Platforming and assigned each element to a specific character. Sonic became exclusively about speed, Tails was focused more on using his flight ability for platforming, and Knuckles was all about exploration. Additional classes were added on to that (shooting, stealth, and fishing). Sonic Adventure 2 drilled down in to these classes even further, making changes that emphasized each class's unique qualities; Sonic's levels became extremely linear but considerably faster as a result, Knuckles was required to spend more time searching for emeralds and solving clues... Tails isn't important, because he wasn't originally intended to be in Sonic Adventure 2 as a playable character, but the hover move he gets later does lend him better platforming skills.

Plus, Sonic Adventure was originally conceptualized as something as a Action-RPG-lite. That's why there's an Adventure Field "overworld", that's why there's NPCs to talk to, that's why there's upgrade equipment, and so on.

Comparing Mario 64 and Sonic Adventure feels a bit unfair, too. Mario 64 became the blueprint for an entire genre. There is literally no other game that is ever going to do that ever again until something comes along to phase out the analog stick. Every 3D third person action game, platformer or not, owes something to Super Mario 64. Even Sonic Adventure.

Sonic Adventure was, however, a pretty incredible game for its scope. Consider what the state of platformers was in 1998/1999. Crash Bandicoot, Banjo-Kazooie, Spyro... and then look at Sonic Adventure. Eight massive overworld maps, 13 multi-part levels, six playable characters with radically different gameplay styles, over an hour of fully-voiced dialog... Sonic Adventure was beyond every other platformer on the market at that time.

And it paid its price for so much ambition by being surpassed by just about everything in as little as three years. But it laid its own foundations that trickled down in to other games (Jak & Daxter and Ratchet & Clank probably owe somethings to Sonic Adventure). Don't mistake this for me defending Sonic Adventure as being good games now, and you're definitely right about "plugging holes while creating others".

But I also think a lot of people let what the franchise became cloud their judgement on what it used to be.

But more than that, and I know no one wants to entertain this thought, but running 9,000 MPH through a 3D world full of perilous obstacles is a really, really dumb design choice.

I'm a little offended by this statement, because it implies by relation that I might be dumb. I'm sure all the people who enjoy games like Burnout Paradise and F-Zero GX are a little offended, too, given that Sonic isn't any faster than those games are.

 

[Hitlersaurus Christ]

Modern 3D Sonic games (all 2 of them) are good. Not amazing by any means, but good games. I'm not just sayingthat because I have a retarded Tails avatar, either. They'd be enjoyable as part of any IP. However, they don't really play like anything else on the market. If you're expecting a Mario 64 or 3D Sonic 2 (okay, part of Generations is basically that) or even a Sonic Adventure 3, you're not going to be satisfied with them.
They are good games in a franchise that was built on great games, but if you aren't comparing them to anything else, they are objectively solid, competent games. End of story.

 

[Anth0ny]

Anth0ny... do you still like Sonic 2006 over Sonic Colours now that you've played the Shadow parts a little?

So far, yes.

Shadow kicking Silver in the back of the head gave me more joy than the entirety of Sonic Colours =P

I'll say it again, the boost gameplay feels like the mach speed segments from Sonic 06. And those are unplayable. Of course, they've been upgraded to "playable", but it's like shining a turd for me.

It seems like a lot of people love it, though. Which is why I think, as a compromise, Classic Sonic should get his own 2D series ala New Super Mario Bros, and keep the Sonic Colors sequels coming as separate games. Win win situation for everybody.

 

[Speevy]

I'm a little offended by this statement, because it implies by relation that I might be dumb. I'm sure all the people who enjoy games like Burnout Paradise and F-Zero GX are a little offended, too, given that Sonic isn't any faster than those games are.

You shouldn't feel this way, because it's in no way what I said. I would never call someone dumb for liking a game. I don't care if the game is Superman 64.

The structure of driving/racing games is considerably different than that of an action/adventure game or platformer. The former demands precision with a goal of performance. The latter promises discovery with a goal of completion.

Sure, there's no law that says you can't mix and match game structures, but Sega has had (at best) mixed results with it so far.

 

[IrishNinja]

damn, god post by Sega1991, as usual.
SA totally set the template for 3D sonics like Mario did for its respective series too, then: modern sonic is still more about speed than platforming, generations continued the idea of knuckles = exploration (however limited), etc. and the very fetch-quests i lamented in Unleashed hearken back to the original game's hubworld, funny seeing it come together like that.

what then would a 3D sonic which combined all 3 of those core elements look like? because again, best i can think of is Colors & the way you speed through plenty of areas, only to stop, do platforming stuff and try different modes to solve puzzles & the like.

Which is why I think, as a compromise, Classic Sonic should get his own 2D series ala New Super Mario Bros, and keep the Sonic Colors sequels coming as separate games. Win win situation for everybody.

06 > colors? you so crazy
i can kinda see this quoted bit here though, kinda figure they had sonic 4 pegged for that but have a huge uphill battle to deal with after how ep 1 went, and rightfully so. still, i hope it's not always segmented like that; id be down for a Generations 2.

 

[Grakl]

How was Chronicles? I never checked it out.

 

[CoffeeJanitor]

Colors and Generations are good games. Nothing amazing but they are definitely good.

I am not really a fan of the game playing everything for me, though, and that's precisely what these games do. It definitely allows for cool camera angles but beyond that, not much of a fan.

 

[ThatStupidLion]

I've always maintained that if Sonic hasn't met the sort of standard you expect from it, perhaps it never will.

But more than that, and I know no one wants to entertain this thought, but running 9,000 MPH through a 3D world full of perilous obstacles is a really, really dumb design choice.

do the developers still not understand that good sonic isn't just about speed...?

 

[Professor Beef]

How was Chronicles? I never checked it out.

It was a bold experiment, but ultimately flawed. The dialogue was absolutely superb, though. Bioware captured the personalities of every character perfectly. The battle system was...alright (I'm probably being generous here). And the music? Well, you be the judge: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrpglqYeQBc

 

[Dark Schala]

How was Chronicles? I never checked it out.

I thought it was quite mediocre as a traditional turn-based RPG when I finally got to play it this year.

So far, yes.

Shadow kicking Silver in the back of the head gave me more joy than the entirety of Sonic Colours =P

That was the best part of the game, and then Silver fails at Chaos Control. :lol

 

[The Xtortionist]

Sure, there's no law that says you can't mix and match game structures, but Sega has had (at best) mixed results with it so far.

I would consider Colors and Generations to both be hybrid platforming/racing games and both were great.

I am not really a fan of the game playing everything for me, though, and that's precisely what these games do. It definitely allows for cool camera angles but beyond that, not much of a fan.

Playing everything for you? What?

do the developers still not understand that good sonic isn't just about speed...?

Good Sonic games have revolved around speed for a little while now. Not that pure speed is the only way Sonic can be good, but it definitely works.

 

[BlazeHedgehog]

You shouldn't feel this way, because it's in no way what I said. I would never call someone dumb for liking a game. I don't care if the game is Superman 64.

The structure of driving/racing games is considerably different than that of an action/adventure game or platformer. The former demands precision with a goal of performance. The latter promises discovery with a goal of completion.

Sure, there's no law that says you can't mix and match game structures, but Sega has had (at best) mixed results with it so far.

I'd say that's negated by the fact that Sonic doesn't usually require you to do complex tasks at high speeds. Maybe bad Sonic games do (Sonic 2006 certainly tried rudimentary platforming in it's stupid "Mach Speed Zone" bullshit), but when games like Sonic Unleashed really get moving, they have more in common with racing games than you'd think, and good level designers always find ways to communicate when you're supposed to slow down and hop around on platforms.

 

[Dark Schala]

It was a bold experiment, but ultimately flawed. The dialogue was absolutely superb, though. Bioware captured the personalities of every character perfectly. The battle system was...alright (I'm probably being generous here). And the music? Well, you be the judge: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrpglqYeQBc

I think it's awful that I recognize the link.

With regards to the dialogue... you know, going back and reading what I wrote in my Sonic Chronicles LTTP thread and then thinking of how each character was written in Generations and Colours DS, I have to say that I really like Bioware's take on the characters a lot better than SEGA's own take. They clearly did a lot of research into the general Sonic universe and the SatAM/Archic Comics universe, and it comes through very well in their writing and dialogue. Some of the characters were actually... likable. Amy seemed more annoying than normal, though.

And being an asshole towards Amy was fantastic.

 

[Grakl]

It was a bold experiment, but ultimately flawed. The dialogue was absolutely superb, though. Bioware captured the personalities of every character perfectly. The battle system was...alright (I'm probably being generous here). And the music? Well, you be the judge: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrpglqYeQBc

What is this? Gawd, if the music was good it could maybe justify a purchase for something different, but man.

 

[Professor Beef]

I think it's awful that I recognize the link.

For better or worse, it's just not a proper Sonic thread without a link to Nocturne.

 

[Teknoman]

Having played the Generations demo, I think Sonic is about as good as it's ever gonna get in 3D, and people need to take it or leave it.

Obviously someone is still buying this series after 20 years, so Sega does well to meet anyone's expectations.

It's certainly bright and colorful, which gives it a plus among this generation's console efforts I think.

Trust when I say Green Hill zone Act 2 really doesnt show how Modern Sonic is in Generations. You'd have to at least play Sky Sanctuary to get a good taste of what Modern Sonic in Generations has to offer. Same with classic Sonic ( Classic City Escape is so much more fun than Green Hill).

Of course the Hill stages are usually a tutorial area of sorts.

 

[Dark Schala]

What is this? Gawd, if the music was good it could maybe justify a purchase for something different, but man.

The music sucks. It's been well-established that the music is a horror story... awful MIDI-sounding shit with bad instrument samples.

It... looks nice? Well, the backgrounds anyway. It has clipping, odd models, and ill-placed outlines on the character portraits, if that matters to you.

For better or worse, it's just not a proper Sonic thread without a link to Nocturne.

You're going to find a way to slip that into the Community Thread, aren't you.

 

[qq more]

You're going to find a way to slip that into the Community Thread, aren't you.

In speaking of, who is handling the thread again?

 

[Teknoman]

I'd say that's negated by the fact that Sonic doesn't usually require you to do complex tasks at high speeds. Maybe bad Sonic games do (Sonic 2006 certainly tried rudimentary platforming in it's stupid "Mach Speed Zone" bullshit), but when games like Sonic Unleashed really get moving, they have more in common with racing games than you'd think, and good level designers always find ways to communicate when you're supposed to slow down and hop around on platforms.

Exactly. Some of the faster sections feel closer to F-Zero with platforming to be honest.

 

[Grakl]

The music sucks. It's been well-established that the music is a horror story... awful MIDI-sounding shit with bad instrument samples.

It... looks nice? Well, the backgrounds anyway. It has clipping, odd models, and ill-placed outlines on the character portraits, if that matters to you.


You're going to find a way to slip that into the Community Thread, aren't you.

Music and general sound effects are practically 50% of the experience for me. There isn't any way I'm getting this now, heh.

 

[Professor Beef]

You're going to find a way to slip that into the Community Thread, aren't you.

In speaking of, who is handling the thread again?

I'm making the thread, but I have also asked some of the SonicGAF regulars for some assistance.

 

[Grakl]

I'm making the thread, but I have also asked some of the SonicGAF regulars for some assistance.

We became junior members of GAF at the same time, but you have a few more posts than me, it seems, haha.

 

[Sinoox]

Yes.

Oh you want reasons? Well, one would be that you actually play as the speedy blue hedgehog without any horrible gimmicks, that's a good one! I think they were always mostly good, but one of the biggest issues is that they just had unfitting design in some areas in order to extend the length of the game. I think Sega even said that themselves, well not that it was unfitting, but that they put out stuff deviating from traditional speedy gameplay just to make a longer game. But I suppose they realized that when people buy a Sonic game they want a Sonic game, hopefully they don't forget that. I think they did a great job with replay value in Generations; what with the whole challenges thing. Believe me, if you try to complete them all Generations is quite a long game.

 

[Nert]

I've only played Sonic Colors, Sonic Generations (360 version), and Sonic Rush out of the modern crop; I skipped the stuff that looked incredibly uneven (Sonic Unleashed) or outright awful (Sonic 2006, Shadow the Hedgehog, etc.).

I think that Sonic Colors is not only a great Sonic game, but is also a great game in general. Its presentation is stellar, the level design is smart (and encourages replays), and the wisp powers are very clever. Sonic Generations has a lot of great moments and I like it a lot overall, but it also has some undeniable low points (the final boss fight, for example, is universally reviled). Surely some of that game's enjoyment derives from its fanservice elements; I got excited for stage reveals in the way that I get pumped up for fighting game character reveals. Sonic Rush had some bizarre boss fights, but was very enjoyable otherwise, with a killer soundtrack.

In general, the series is in pretty good shape, and is drastically better off than it was even two years ago. I have high hopes for what Sonic games will be like on the next wave of consoles.

 

[Dark Schala]

I'm making the thread, but I have also asked some of the SonicGAF regulars for some assistance.

Sciz totally won't let you. :lol

Ah. Check your PMs, btw.

 

[CoffeeJanitor]

Playing everything for you? What?

There are stretches in pretty much every level where if you hold right then Sonic will do a bunch of crazy shit on ramps at crazy camera angles etc. This is a pretty common feature in modern sonic titles.

 

[TheOGB]

Trust when I say Green Hill zone Act 2 really doesnt show how Modern Sonic is in Generations. You'd have to at least play Sky Sanctuary to get a good taste of what Modern Sonic in Generations has to offer.

This is very true, though I would say Modern Sky Sanctuary alone isn't enough. Play Speed Highway as well. That level definitely has all 3 qualities of Sonic (though with a bit of a lean towards speed, obviously).

I'd say pretty much every level in Generations has exploration, what with their numerous paths and such (same thing with pretty much any level in Colors featuring the Yellow Wisp ). I just discovered a new route in Speed Highway myself the other day, and it was exhilarating. I was so surprised and excited to find a new way to traverse the level.

 

[PigSpeakers]

I don't fall in any of those categories. Do I need to post a tier list?

Great tier: (The classics. I could go back to these and play them any time and have a blast.)

Sonic 2
Sonic 3K
Sonic 1

Good tier: (Fun games with some great qualities, but have some stuff that drags them down)

Sonic Generations
Sonic Adventure 2 Battle
Sonic Advance
Sonic CD

Meh tier: (The negatives are about equal to the positives, but still playable.)

Sonic Adventure 1
Sonic Heroes
Sonic Battle

Shit tier: (The negatives FAR outweigh the positives, and I can't have fun while playing these games. Except in Sonic 06's case, which falls under the so bad it's hilarious category.)

Sonic 4
Sonic Advance 2
Sonic Advance 3
Knuckles Chaotix
Sonic Rush
Sonic 06
Sonic Colors
Sonic Unleashed

In case you haven't noticed, I don't like boost.

What about Shadow? Come on man! He swears and has a gun. Top tier.

 

[jump_button]

Sonic colours was better then Sonic Generations just wish they change the style of sonic to the old one

 

[Dark Schala]

What about Shadow? Come on man! He swears and has a gun. Top tier.

Where's that DAMN fourth Chaos Emerald?

And in one ending, he kills Robotnik. He's so EXTREME.

 

[PigSpeakers]

Where's that DAMN fourth Chaos Emerald?

And in one ending, he kills Robotnik. He's so EXTREME.

To the MAX.

(my brother bought that game full price when we were younger)

 

[Facism]

I enjoyed the lil' Sanic sections of Generations. Wished there was a vanilla Sonic 3 homage level in there between Chemical Plant and Sky Sanctuary.

Big Sanic was autopilot shit as usual

 

[Professor Beef]

Where's that DAMN fourth Chaos Emerald?

And in one ending, he kills Robotnik. He's so EXTREME.

Shadow (after killing Robotnik): "Hey kids, always recycle...TO THE EXTREME!!" *hops on motorcycle and drives past fireworks factory*

 

[Dark Schala]

(my brother bought that game full price when we were younger)

I bought it for $5 and still felt ripped off. "It can't be that bad," I thought when I bought it.

I enjoyed the lil' Sanic sections of Generations. Wished there was a vanilla Sonic 3 homage level in there between Chemical Plant and Sky Sanctuary.

Big Sanic was autopilot shit as usual

I'd love a Sanic Ganerashons 2.

Shadow (after killing Robotnik): "Hey kids, always recycle...TO THE EXTREME!!" *hops on motorcycle and drives past the Mean Bean factory*

Tee hee.

 

[Tain]

Sonic 1 was pretty good.

Sonic 2 should have just been that final stage. That was a really great final stage.

 

[RobbieNick]

I'd say after Sonic Colors and Sonic Generations, they are definitely back on the right back. Both of those were great Sonic games. Sonic 4 had decent level design but poor physics. Sonic Unleashed is a required taste. Rings was "meh" Black Knight, '06 and Rivals were all shit.

 

[Darryl]

I don't understand where all of the Sonic Adventure 1 hate comes from. That game was amazing. The stages felt complete, and were visually appealing. They had a fair bit of exploration and platforming, plenty of speed sections. I don't know what my ideal 3D Sonic game would be like, but I'm glad they went the Adventure route before they turned the series into a one-way race track with "obstacles" in the way.

 

[biocat]

Sonic's main fan base has always been Nintendo consoles.

This made me laugh so hard just because I remember how intense Mario vs. Sonic arguments could get on the playground. And sometimes Bonk was thrown in as well. Remember Bonk?

 

[PeakPointMatrix]

I don't understand where all of the Sonic Adventure 1 hate comes from. That game was amazing. The stages felt complete, and were visually appealing. They had a fair bit of exploration and platforming, plenty of speed sections. I don't know what my ideal 3D Sonic game would be like, but I'm glad they went the Adventure route before they turned the series into a one-way race track with "obstacles" in the way.

No, you got it right. I think people's memories of 06 have just clouded their judgement on that game. SA as it stands is an extremely playable, fun game. Visually its aged a bit (launch game from 12 years ago!) but the exaggerations to it's quality are grossly overblown. I feel it's a lot closer to how Sonic should be in 3D instead of this burnout/occasional 2d platformer style we have now. While those are still fun, it feels like a racing game and are infinity more scripted than SA ever was.

 

[BlazeHedgehog]

I don't understand where all of the Sonic Adventure 1 hate comes from. That game was amazing. The stages felt complete, and were visually appealing. They had a fair bit of exploration and platforming, plenty of speed sections. I don't know what my ideal 3D Sonic game would be like, but I'm glad they went the Adventure route before they turned the series into a one-way race track with "obstacles" in the way.

Sonic Adventure 1 aged FAST, though. A lot of its core ideas are probably still sound, but everything around those ideas is frustratingly dated. The game has awful collision detection, ugly graphics (especially after seeing what they could do in SA2), horrendous voice acting and so on.

 

[Darryl]

Sonic Adventure 1 aged FAST, though. A lot of its core ideas are probably still sound, but everything around those ideas is frustratingly dated. The game has awful collision detection, ugly graphics (especially after seeing what they could do in SA2), horrendous voice acting and so on.

Those are just issues that don't bother me very much because I know I'm playing an 10+ year old game. I don't think the game has bad graphics at all, I'm willing to play games with much worse. The voice-acting scenes in this game are all short, and they're really not that bad once you watch a few of them and get used to it. Maybe the collision detection would be a problem, but most of the issues I've seen with that are so small that I can't imagine most people having many problems unless they're going out of their way to find them.

Maybe it's aged a bit worse than SA2 & the Genesis games, but I think it's a lot better than some people are giving it credit for. It's aged better than most other 3D games for that era.

 

[Pietepiet]

I always found Sonic Adventure 2 to be the better game. I loved Sonic Adventure 1 when I was younger, but I recently went back to it and I just can't play it anymore.
Sonic Adventure 2, however, I still play through regularly. I love the speed and shooting levels, and while the treasure hunting isn't as great, it's still pretty enjoyable and much better than what it was in Sonic Adventure 1.

 

[Nuclear Muffin]

Yeah, he's right. "Apologists" is the right word. Those games are, at best, okay, but because they're leagues above what Sega was pumping out even just a few years ago, some people like to praise them above what they deserve.

Sonic games used to be on the cutting edge of consumer entertainment. All the Sonics from 1 - 3K went toe-to-toe with Mario games for Christ's sake. Colors and Generations being okay, being decent, being alright isn't fucking good enough.

Exactly how I feel. The fact that they're better than complete garbage isn't saying much really.