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GAF Reads The Bible (in one year)

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According to other interpretations I've seen, it has to do with this line:



When God said this, he meant that when people are all joined for a singular purpose, they can accomplish impossible feats, both "noble and ignoble". I guess he was worried about this, so he "scattered" the people building the tower.

I always thought it was because God thought the Tower reaching heaven was some type of affront.

There's an interesting story in Greek mythology about the kidnapping of Persephone by her uncle Hades. Hades wanted a wife but was unable to get one on his own, so he went to Zeus for help. Zeus told him to buzz off and Hades threatened to prevent humanity's souls from entering the underworld. In essence, human beings would be immortal. Zeus became terrified because he feared that if mankind couldn't die, their first course of action would be to unite and challenge his rule in Olympus.

So, Zeus decided to allow Hades to kidnap his daughter Persephone.
 
This. No book is sacred, not even the Bible. If a passage is boring, don't feel bad for skipping it. Your time is precious, don't waste it.


I don't know if it's more accurate but it's where many, many English expressions directly came from. This translation has influenced its target language like few translations of the Bible ever had - in French, there are many popular translations and you can pick whichever you want and it doesn't matter, but the King James Version (a.k.a. the Authorized Version) has a special place in the field of English literature. It does help that the translation sounds very elegant.

tl;dr: When in doubt, pick the KJV.

Yup, I loved reading the KJV or NKJV for its prose. However I disagree with your notion that no book is sacred. I think no book is beyond reproach, but I hold many authors and books sacred for the notions that they are putting across or trying to reach.
 
My church actually does have this 5 minutes of reading a day thing on its program, but I never tried it. Once I hit Numbers I just want to skip that book altogether.

That's the toughest thing i think most people grapple with. Those genealogies just get super boring.

I like this whole idea though.
 
Why King James? I am actually unsure as to version but I'd like something more... accurate.

Style and literary relevance trump accuracy. See: this post for details.

Seriously, I'm not sure why accuracy or faithfulness to the original text would be particularly important if you're not religious. I mean, it would be historically interesting to some degree, but I'll take fluidity and beauty over slight historical interest any day.
 
Style and literary relevance trump accuracy. See: this post for details.

Seriously, I'm not sure why accuracy or faithfulness to the original text would be particularly important if you're not religious. I mean, it would be historically interesting to some degree, but I'll take fluidity and beauty over slight historical interest any day.

King James is where we get the hell doctrine though which is a completely erroneous teaching. However, if your going for sheer entertainment KJ is the way to go. Unicorns and Dragons baby!

People should read the bible in chronological order. Makes it so much easier.
 
When God said this, he meant that when people are all joined for a singular purpose, they can accomplish impossible feats, both "noble and ignoble". I guess he was worried about this, so he "scattered" the people building the tower.

I always thought it was because God thought the Tower reaching heaven was some type of affront.

So basically if we all join together, we can do whatever God can do? Let's do this, guys! It's still interesting to me that that's so vague. We must be closer to this task now than we've been since the days of this tower.

Anyone ever read The Year of Living Biblically by AJ Jacobs? The guy basically tries to spend a year living by the literal Bible. He doesn't really do it to prove a point; it's more an intellectual experiment in exploring how the Bible fits into modern society. It's pretty funny though.

He also wrote one about attempting to read the entire Encyclopedia from front to back.
 
So basically if we all join together, we can do whatever God can do? Let's do this, guys! It's still interesting to me that that's so vague. We must be closer to this task now than we've been since the days of this tower.

Anyone ever read The Year of Living Biblically by AJ Jacobs? The guy basically tries to spend a year living by the literal Bible. He doesn't really do it to prove a point; it's more an intellectual experiment in exploring how the Bible fits into modern society. It's pretty funny though.

He also wrote one about attempting to read the entire Encyclopedia from front to back.

If everyone spoke the same language, a lot of things would be lost. Linguistics professors are very concerned about the amount of languages that go extinct every year.
 
Oh, interesting! Can you give any more detail?

Why certainly good sir prepare to understand why the vast majority of christian religions(over 44,000 denominations) don't know what they believe.

To start off I like the way the Encyclopedia Americana sums it up -

“Much confusion and misunderstanding has been caused through the early translators of the Bible persistently rendering the Hebrew Sheol and the Greek Hades and Gehenna by the word hell. The simple transliteration of these words by the translators of the revised editions of the Bible has not sufficed to appreciably clear up this confusion and misconception.”—The Encyclopedia Americana (1942), Vol. XIV, p. 81.

Translators have allowed their personal beliefs to color their work instead of being consistent in their rendering of the original-language words. For example:

(1) The King James Version rendered she’ohl′ as “hell,” “the grave,” and “the pit”; hai′des is therein rendered both “hell” and “grave”; ge′en·na is also translated “hell.”

The word hell as found in the KJV is read as "the-grave" most commonly in other translations.
Why you ask?

Well other bibles simply transliterate the original-language words that are sometimes rendered "hell" - In other words transliterate means they express the letters of our alphabet but leave the words untranslated. Make sense?

So the original Hebrew word that KJV renders hell is 'She'ohl' and the Greek Equivalent is 'hai'des'. Which in both instances refer not to a individual burial place but to a common grave of the dead. So basically bible writers when saying "hey I am going to the grave" would say I am going to "She'ohl" in the Hebrew scriptures and "hai'des" in the greek. They both mean the same thing. Job said he was going down into She'ohl as did many of the prophets they just meant "Hey I am going to the grave"

Now there is one other greek word used in the bible considering death that is 'Ge'en-na'. Jesus used the word to describe people that would die and have no chance at resurrection.

Jesus used that term because it would be immediately familiar to the Jews since 'Ge'en-na' was a actual physical place that god told the isrealites to throw the bodies of those not deserving of a proper burial. The pagan kings were thrown there for child sacrifice. It represented being cut off from god, dishonor as not having a proper burial today in many lands constitutes. Now this is where it gets interesting through time 'Ge'en-na' became a basically a garbage dump that was continually kept on fire to break down trash.

So we have 3 words: She'ohl and hai'des which mean common grave and Ge'en-na which was a garbage dump where unclean and dishonored people were thrown. The King James takes all 3 of these renderings and calls them "hell" and takes jesus allusion to Ge'en-na as a litteral place of unending fire and torture.

With just one word the majority of christianity believe something that doesn't exist. There was actually a NPR on it where this Protestant church leader is branded a heretic for basically trying to correct this belief system from his pulpit.

Here are some other sources:

Concerning this use of “hell” to translate these original words from the Hebrew and Greek, Vine’s Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words (1981, Vol. 2, p. 187) says: “HADES . . . It corresponds to ‘Sheol’ in the O.T. [Old Testament]. In the A.V. of the O.T. [Old Testament] and N.T. [New Testament], it has been unhappily rendered ‘hell.’”

Collier’s Encyclopedia (1986, Vol. 12, p. 28) says concerning “hell”: “First it stands for the Hebrew Sheol of the Old Testament and the Greek Hades of the Septuagint and New Testament. Since Sheol in Old Testament times referred simply to the abode of the dead and suggested no moral distinctions, the word ‘hell,’ as understood today, is not a happy translation.”

Webster’s Third New International Dictionary, unabridged, under “hell” says: “fr[om] . . . helan to conceal.” The word “hell” thus originally conveyed no thought of heat or torment but simply of a ‘covered over or concealed place.’ In the old English dialect the expression “helling potatoes” meant, not to roast them, but simply to place the potatoes in the ground or in a cellar.

The meaning given today to the word “hell” is that portrayed in Dante’s Divine Comedy and Milton’s Paradise Lost, which meaning is completely foreign to the original definition of the word. The idea of a “hell” of fiery torment, however, dates back long before Dante or Milton. The Grolier Universal Encyclopedia (1971, Vol. 9, p. 205) under “hell” says: “Hindus and Buddhists regard hell as a place of spiritual cleansing and final restoration. Islamic tradition considers it as a place of everlasting punishment.” The idea of suffering after death is found among the pagan religious teachings of ancient peoples in Babylon and Egypt. Babylonian and Assyrian beliefs depicted the “nether world . . . as a place full of horrors, . . . presided over by gods and demons of great strength and fierceness.” Although ancient Egyptian religious texts do not teach that the burning of any individual victim would go on forever, they do portray the “Other World” as featuring “pits of fire” for “the damned.”—The Religion of Babylonia and Assyria, by Morris Jastrow, Jr., 1898, p. 581; The Book of the Dead, with introduction by E. Wallis Budge, 1960, pp. 135, 144, 149, 151, 153, 161, 200.
 
Thanks! So the upshot is essentially that it was a pagan idea without necessarily much backing in the Bible.

Of course, the Divine Comedy was written in, what, the 1300s? So the idea of Hell was already around in Christianity in the Middle Ages.

So including it in the KJV is more of a preservation of an already-existing idea than the introduction of a new one. Still, that's quite interesting. Are the relevant passages usually rendered differently in modern translations?
 
Thanks! So the upshot is essentially that it was a pagan idea without necessarily much backing in the Bible.

Of course, the Divine Comedy was written in, what, the 1300s? So the idea of Hell was already around in Christianity in the Middle Ages.

So including it in the KJV is more of a preservation of an already-existing idea than the introduction of a new one. Still, that's quite interesting. Are the relevant passages usually rendered differently in modern translations?

Bible.cc is awesome for multiple translations. Just to show you how crazy the belief of hell is look at this scripture in Psalms 9:17 it is rendered- “The wicked shall be turned into hell,* and all the nations that forget God."

Pretty frightening right? That would definitely guilt you into going to church. Now compare that with the majority of bibles that transliterate that passage:

http://bible.cc/psalms/9-17.htm

Yeah the actual belief system of a underworld stems completely from early Babylon. At the MET they have a amazing section on Babylon and its influence on Christianity as it is today. The prime pillars of Babylon - A underworld of judgement and a trinity or triune gods. Pillars of a lot of christianity - Hellfire and Trinity. Fascinating huh.

THE BELIEF OF HELL is a monumental disservice to the bible and to god. So were told to love and worship a creator that likes to burn people forever? How can anyone get close to a person like that?

When you consider all the horrors that have been done through time because of belief in Hell it can make your blood boil. The inquisition, and specifically the executions by burning by Queen Mary I(Bloody Mary). Were done because these people believed it was better to burn people now and save their souls instead of risking their eternal torment. I mean can you believe that!
 
When going through Leviticus and Numbers pay attention to all the crazy quarantine procedures that the Israelites have to do. That stuff is pretty nuts. They were practicing a set of health codes that didn't even become mainstream till the 1800's in most the world.
 
Bible.cc is awesome for multiple translations. Just to show you how crazy the belief of hell is look at this scripture in Psalms 9:17 it is rendered- “The wicked shall be turned into hell,* and all the nations that forget God."

Pretty frightening right? That would definitely guilt you into going to church. Now compare that with the majority of bibles that transliterate that passage:

http://bible.cc/psalms/9-17.htm

Oh, great resource! And yeah, those other translations really put that into perspective.
 
I always felt like the Bible needs a tldr version. I guess that's what church is for.

It would take longer if you attended church. The pastors go slowly, out of order, add their own opinions, and have long sermons that comment on a single verse.

Churches are for creating close-knit communities necessary for survival in harsh environments.
 
Ok, I'm up to date now. I remember reading this as a kid and thinking these were actual facts. It's so different to come back at them now and read them as a story, it's so much more enjoyable.

Still, there are some pretty big wtf moments that make it seem like an amateurish story. Are the LoTR books anything like this? If so, I might end up reading them.
 
Ok, I'm up to date now. I remember reading this as a kid and thinking these were actual facts. It's so different to come back at them now and read them as a story, it's so much more enjoyable.

Still, there are some pretty big wtf moments that make it seem like an amateurish story. Are the LoTR books anything like this? If so, I might end up reading them.

Stuff like Genesis 1 and Genesis 2 offering two distinct stories of creation and God giving Noah contradictory sets of instructions is something more than it just being an "amateurish story." Sure, JRR Tolkien created a more coherent world than what is found in Genesis, but just about anybody could and that leaves Genesis's internal contradictions a puzzle rather than something to be snarky about. I'm not accusing you of being snarky, btw.
 
Stuff like Genesis 1 and Genesis 2 offering two distinct stories of creation and God giving Noah contradictory sets of instructions is something more than it just being an "amateurish story." Sure, JRR Tolkien created a more coherent world than what is found in Genesis, but just about anybody could and that leaves Genesis's internal contradictions a puzzle rather than something to be snarky about. I'm not accusing you of being snarky, btw.

what are you talking about?

THE BELIEF OF HELL is a monumental disservice to the bible and to god. So were told to love and worship a creator that likes to burn people forever? How can anyone get close to a person like that?

Well we are also told that God is just and must punish sin, the works of the devil. He can't just hang out with sinful creatures.....unless the whole Jesus thing comes into the equation, because by his sacrifice mankind can be made righteous.
 
Day 3.

1 But God remembered Noah and all the animals in the boat. He sent a wind to blow across the waters, and the floods began to disappear. 2 The underground water sources ceased their gushing, and the torrential rains stopped. 3 So the flood gradually began to recede. After 150 days, 4 exactly five months from the time the flood began, the boat came to rest on the mountains of Ararat. 5 Two and a half months later, as the waters continued to go down, other mountain peaks began to appear. 6 After another forty days, Noah opened the window he had made in the boat 7 and released a raven that flew back and forth until the earth was dry. 8 Then he sent out a dove to see if it could find dry ground. 9 But the dove found no place to land because the water was still too high. So it returned to the boat, and Noah held out his hand and drew the dove back inside. 10 Seven days later, Noah released the dove again. 11 This time, toward evening, the bird returned to him with a fresh olive leaf in its beak. Noah now knew that the water was almost gone. 12 A week later, he released the dove again, and this time it did not come back. 13 Finally, when Noah was 601 years old, ten and a half months after the flood began, Noah lifted back the cover to look. The water was drying up. 14 Two more months went by, and at last the earth was dry! 15 Then God said to Noah, 16 "Leave the boat, all of you. 17 Release all the animals and birds so they can breed and reproduce in great numbers." 18 So Noah, his wife, and his sons and their wives left the boat. 19 And all the various kinds of animals and birds came out, pair by pair. 20 Then Noah built an altar to the LORD and sacrificed on it the animals and birds that had been approved for that purpose. 21 And the LORD was pleased with the sacrifice and said to himself, "I will never again curse the earth, destroying all living things, even though people's thoughts and actions are bent toward evil from childhood. 22 As long as the earth remains, there will be springtime and harvest, cold and heat, winter and summer, day and night."

1 God blessed Noah and his sons and told them, "Multiply and fill the earth. 2 All the wild animals, large and small, and all the birds and fish will be afraid of you. I have placed them in your power. 3 I have given them to you for food, just as I have given you grain and vegetables. 4 But you must never eat animals that still have their lifeblood in them. 5 And murder is forbidden. Animals that kill people must die, and any person who murders must be killed. 6 Yes, you must execute anyone who murders another person, for to kill a person is to kill a living being made in God's image. 7 Now you must have many children and repopulate the earth. Yes, multiply and fill the earth!" 8 Then God told Noah and his sons, 9 "I am making a covenant with you and your descendants, 10 and with the animals you brought with you -- all these birds and livestock and wild animals. 11 I solemnly promise never to send another flood to kill all living creatures and destroy the earth." 12 And God said, "I am giving you a sign as evidence of my eternal covenant with you and all living creatures. 13 I have placed my rainbow in the clouds. It is the sign of my permanent promise to you and to all the earth. 14 When I send clouds over the earth, the rainbow will be seen in the clouds, 15 and I will remember my covenant with you and with everything that lives. Never again will there be a flood that will destroy all life. 16 When I see the rainbow in the clouds, I will remember the eternal covenant between God and every living creature on earth." 17 Then God said to Noah, "Yes, this is the sign of my covenant with all the creatures of the earth." 18 Shem, Ham, and Japheth, the three sons of Noah, survived the Flood with their father. (Ham is the ancestor of the Canaanites.) 19 From these three sons of Noah came all the people now scattered across the earth. 20 After the Flood, Noah became a farmer and planted a vineyard. 21 One day he became drunk on some wine he had made and lay naked in his tent. 22 Ham, the father of Canaan, saw that his father was naked and went outside and told his brothers. 23 Shem and Japheth took a robe, held it over their shoulders, walked backward into the tent, and covered their father's naked body. As they did this, they looked the other way so they wouldn't see him naked. 24 When Noah woke up from his drunken stupor, he learned what Ham, his youngest son, had done. 25 Then he cursed the descendants of Canaan, the son of Ham: "A curse on the Canaanites! May they be the lowest of servants to the descendants of Shem and Japheth." 26 Then Noah said, "May Shem be blessed by the LORD my God; and may Canaan be his servant. 27 May God enlarge the territory of Japheth, and may he share the prosperity of Shem; and let Canaan be his servant." 28 Noah lived another 350 years after the Flood. 29 He was 950 years old when he died

1 This is the history of the families of Shem, Ham, and Japheth, the three sons of Noah. Many children were born to them after the Flood. 2 The descendants of Japheth were Gomer, Magog, Madai, Javan, Tubal, Meshech, and Tiras. 3 The descendants of Gomer were Ashkenaz, Riphath, and Togarmah. 4 The descendants of Javan were Elishah, Tarshish, Kittim, and Rodanim. 5 Their descendants became the seafaring peoples in various lands, each tribe with its own language. 6 The descendants of Ham were Cush, Mizraim, Put, and Canaan. 7 The descendants of Cush were Seba, Havilah, Sabtah, Raamah, and Sabteca. The descendants of Raamah were Sheba and Dedan. 8 One of Cush's descendants was Nimrod, who became a heroic warrior. 9 He was a mighty hunter in the LORD's sight. His name became proverbial, and people would speak of someone as being "like Nimrod, a mighty hunter in the LORD's sight." 10 He built the foundation for his empire in the land of Babylonia, with the cities of Babel, Erech, Akkad, and Calneh. 11 From there he extended his reign to Assyria, where he built Nineveh, Rehoboth-ir, Calah, 12 and Resen -- the main city of the empire, located between Nineveh and Calah. 13 Mizraim was the ancestor of the Ludites, Anamites, Lehabites, Naphtuhites, 14 Pathrusites, Casluhites, and the Caphtorites, from whom the Philistines came. 15 Canaan's oldest son was Sidon, the ancestor of the Sidonians. Canaan was also the ancestor of the Hittites, 16 Jebusites, Amorites, Girgashites, 17 Hivites, Arkites, Sinites, 18 Arvadites, Zemarites, and Hamathites. 19 Eventually the territory of Canaan spread from Sidon to Gerar, near Gaza, and to Sodom, Gomorrah, Admah, and Zeboiim, near Lasha. 20 These were the descendants of Ham, identified according to their tribes, languages, territories, and nations. 21 Sons were also born to Shem, the older brother of Japheth. Shem was the ancestor of all the descendants of Eber. 22 The descendants of Shem were Elam, Asshur, Arphaxad, Lud, and Aram. 23 The descendants of Aram were Uz, Hul, Gether, and Mash. 24 Arphaxad was the father of Shelah, and Shelah was the father of Eber. 25 Eber had two sons. The first was named Peleg -- "division" -- for during his lifetime the people of the world were divided into different language groups and dispersed. His brother's name was Joktan. 26 Joktan was the ancestor of Almodad, Sheleph, Hazarmaveth, Jerah, 27 Hadoram, Uzal, Diklah, 28 Obal, Abimael, Sheba, 29 Ophir, Havilah, and Jobab. 30 The descendants of Joktan lived in the area extending from Mesha toward the eastern hills of Sephar. 31 These were the descendants of Shem, identified according to their tribes, languages, territories, and nations. 32 These are the families that came from Noah's sons, listed nation by nation according to their lines of descent. The earth was populated with the people of these nations after the Flood.

1 At one time the whole world spoke a single language and used the same words. 2 As the people migrated eastward, they found a plain in the land of Babylonia and settled there. 3 They began to talk about construction projects. "Come," they said, "let's make great piles of burnt brick and collect natural asphalt to use as mortar. 4 Let's build a great city with a tower that reaches to the skies -- a monument to our greatness! This will bring us together and keep us from scattering all over the world." 5 But the LORD came down to see the city and the tower the people were building. 6 "Look!" he said. "If they can accomplish this when they have just begun to take advantage of their common language and political unity, just think of what they will do later. Nothing will be impossible for them! 7 Come, let's go down and give them different languages. Then they won't be able to understand each other." 8 In that way, the LORD scattered them all over the earth; and that ended the building of the city. 9 That is why the city was called Babel, because it was there that the LORD confused the people by giving them many languages, thus scattering them across the earth. 10 This is the history of Shem's family. When Shem was 100 years old, his son Arphaxad was born. This happened two years after the Flood. 11 After the birth of Arphaxad, Shem lived another 500 years and had other sons and daughters. 12 When Arphaxad was 35 years old, his son Shelah was born. 13 After the birth of Shelah, Arphaxad lived another 403 years and had other sons and daughters. 14 When Shelah was 30 years old, his son Eber was born. 15 After the birth of Eber, Shelah lived another 403 years and had other sons and daughters. 16 When Eber was 34 years old, his son Peleg was born. 17 After the birth of Peleg, Eber lived another 430 years and had other sons and daughters. 18 When Peleg was 30 years old, his son Reu was born. 19 After the birth of Reu, Peleg lived another 209 years and had other sons and daughters. 20 When Reu was 32 years old, his son Serug was born. 21 After the birth of Serug, Reu lived another 207 years and had other sons and daughters. 22 When Serug was 30 years old, his son Nahor was born. 23 After the birth of Nahor, Serug lived another 200 years and had other sons and daughters. 24 When Nahor was 29 years old, his son Terah was born. 25 After the birth of Terah, Nahor lived another 119 years and had other sons and daughters. 26 When Terah was 70 years old, he became the father of Abram, Nahor, and Haran. 27 This is the history of Terah's family. Terah was the father of Abram, Nahor, and Haran; and Haran had a son named Lot. 28 But while Haran was still young, he died in Ur of the Chaldeans, the place of his birth. He was survived by Terah, his father. 29 Meanwhile, Abram married Sarai, and his brother Nahor married Milcah, the daughter of their brother Haran. (Milcah had a sister named Iscah.) 30 Now Sarai was not able to have any children. 31 Terah took his son Abram, his daughter-in-law Sarai, and his grandson Lot (his son Haran's child) and left Ur of the Chaldeans to go to the land of Canaan. But they stopped instead at the village of Haran and settled there. 32 Terah lived for 205 years and died while still at Haran.

So god basically said screw you guys and your awesome city and tower. We'll see about that!
 
what are you talking about?



Genesis 7:2-5
Take with you seven pairs of all clean animals, the male and its mate; and a pair of the animals that are not clean, the male and its mate; and seven pairs of the birds of the air also, male and female, to keep their kind alive on the face of all the earth. For in seven days I will send rain on the earth for forty days and forty nights; and every living thing that I have made I will blot out from the face of the ground.’ And Noah did all that the Lord had commanded him.​

Genesis 7: 7-9
And Noah with his sons and his wife and his sons’ wives went into the ark to escape the waters of the flood. Of clean animals, and of animals that are not clean, and of birds, and of everything that creeps on the ground, two and two, male and female, went into the ark with Noah, as God had commanded Noah.​
To me God's instructions for how many animals should be brought on the ark seem very different in the second group of verses compared to the first.

el retorno de los sapos has already covered the two creation stories
 
Genesis 7:2-5
Take with you seven pairs of all clean animals, the male and its mate; and a pair of the animals that are not clean, the male and its mate; and seven pairs of the birds of the air also, male and female, to keep their kind alive on the face of all the earth. For in seven days I will send rain on the earth for forty days and forty nights; and every living thing that I have made I will blot out from the face of the ground.Â’ And Noah did all that the Lord had commanded him.​

Genesis 7: 7-9
And Noah with his sons and his wife and his sonsÂ’ wives went into the ark to escape the waters of the flood. Of clean animals, and of animals that are not clean, and of birds, and of everything that creeps on the ground, two and two, male and female, went into the ark with Noah, as God had commanded Noah.​
To me God's instructions for how many animals should be brought on the ark seem very different in the second group of verses compared to the first.

el retorno de los sapos has already covered the two creation stories

I read the second set that the animals went in pair by pair. So you could have 7 pairs but each pair went in one by one.
 
Genesis 7:2-5
Take with you seven pairs of all clean animals, the male and its mate; and a pair of the animals that are not clean, the male and its mate; and seven pairs of the birds of the air also, male and female, to keep their kind alive on the face of all the earth. For in seven days I will send rain on the earth for forty days and forty nights; and every living thing that I have made I will blot out from the face of the ground.’ And Noah did all that the Lord had commanded him.​

Genesis 7: 7-9
And Noah with his sons and his wife and his sons’ wives went into the ark to escape the waters of the flood. Of clean animals, and of animals that are not clean, and of birds, and of everything that creeps on the ground, two and two, male and female, went into the ark with Noah, as God had commanded Noah.​
To me God's instructions for how many animals should be brought on the ark seem very different in the second group of verses compared to the first.

el retorno de los sapos has already covered the two creation stories

I personally don't see that at all....I see 7-9 as a brief re-cap of 2-5. 2-5 are the specific instructions, and 7-9 are just confirming the animals went in.

I read the second set that the animals went in pair by pair. So you could have 7 pairs but each pair went in one by one.

Yeah that's how I interpreted it as well...that they went in "two and two" as a pair at a time.
 
I read the second set that the animals went in pair by pair. So you could have 7 pairs but each pair went in one by one.

Hmm, that's only 16 animals. You could put 16 animals on an ark and have room to spare.

Biblical literalism has been vindicated.
 
Good idea for a thread.

I'm agnostic (if I died tomorrow I'd die an atheist) but studied theology in college and after I got over myself, got over how smart I thought I was, and got over my own stubborn arrogance, I found it to be the most enlightening volume on the human condition. It's a shame that there are so many otherwise smart people who won't read the Bible because of arrogance and/or frustration with people who they disagree with on a number of things, so they consider the book(s) beneath them. (FWIW, I have no problem with anybody who doesn't want to read the Bible or just isn't interested in it at all, everybody has their own interests and that's fine, but generally discussion of the Bible -- especially around general/pop interest forums -- is filled with smitten arrogance of people who think that they're just too smart for the Bible, and anybody who would read it is a step beneath their towering intellect)

I wish that there were more people willing to take the Bible seriously on internet circles, regardless of faith (or, better yet, in spite of their lack of faith). It's the most influential book in the Western world (probably the entire world) and without it (or some other book with a similar impact that does not exist), literacy could very well be 300, 400, or 500 years behind what it actually is today.

(edit, oh also obviously not a biblical literalist, I don't think that the authors and storytellers want it read literally either. I think if you're harping on Biblical literalism, either as a skeptic & critic or as a faithful believer, you're entirely missing the point)
 
Then what about the second death? Death refers to that of the body, then the soul, no?

Second death is in reference to those that have no chance at a resurrection. A death that you can't come back from, and complete non-existence. When used in conjunction with people it means there is no resurrection. When used with inanimate things such as "Death itself being cast into the lake of fire" it means non-existence.

I read the second set that the animals went in pair by pair. So you could have 7 pairs but each pair went in one by one.

Has anyone asked how we can get all the species on earth today from the animals brought on the ark or if such a thing would be even possible? I remember asking that first time I went through Noah. Interesting answer.
 
7 pairs is 14 animals.

Whoops. 30 animals then.

I wish that there were more people willing to take the Bible seriously on internet circles, regardless of faith (or, better yet, in spite of their lack of faith). It's the most influential book in the Western world (probably the entire world) and without it (or some other book with a similar impact that does not exist), literacy could very well be 300, 400, or 500 years behind what it actually is today.
Certainly. People wouldn't have a problem approaching the epic of Gilgamesh, but something about the Bible turns people into sophomoric boobs.
 
It seems like LORD (They mean GOD) Is actually in physical form with Adam and Eve for awhile, or no?

Also so the first trial run he messed up and then did the whole flood and reset the world. This time not damning man?

Also the last question it looks like it says its OK to murder people who murder...Yet aren't Religious people against the death penalty? For its not God's Plan?

Noah and his sons repopulate the world, they dont mention any female going on the boat...NM yes they do, but he doesnt Bless the females and wives in Genesis 8? Bit sexist.
 
Has anyone asked how we can get all the species on earth today from the animals brought on the ark or if such a thing would be even possible? I remember asking that first time I went through Noah. Interesting answer.

Well I guess the idea is that all the animals we have today were on the ark. I'm not sure how he'd manage to get animals from the Americas on the ark but eh...

It seems like LORD (They mean GOD) Is actually in physical form with Adam and Eve for awhile, or no?

Also so the first trial run he messed up and then did the whole flood and reset the world. This time not damning man?

Also the last question it looks like it says its OK to murder people who murder...Yet aren't Religious people against the death penalty? For its not God's Plan?

Noah and his sons repopulate the world, they dont mention any female going on the boat...

I've heard explanations that the physical incarnation of God on earth was the Son(who would take on human form in Jesus) and not God the Father. Trinity and all.

At this point in the Bible you have to realize that all these laws, standards and practices were pretty much wiped clean by Jesus and that is what religious people go off of today.
 
Real props to you guys in this thread. This is kind of how I wish all religious discussions on gaf went about.
 
It seems like LORD (They mean GOD) Is actually in physical form with Adam and Eve for awhile, or no?
I'm kind of confused by this, but it sounds like the moments where God appears to be corporeal are thought to originate from a different source than when he is not. I believe that corporeal god segments are more playful and God is referred to as Yhwh and in the others he is referred to as Elohim.

Noah and his sons repopulate the world, they dont mention any female going on the boat...

The descendants of Cain are mentioned to be the ancestors of people with certain talents. "Jubal; he was the ancestor of all those who play the lyre and pipe." "Jabal; he was the ancestor of those who live in tents and have livestock." These ancestries don't make much sense when you consider that a few chapters the world goes through the bottleneck of Moses and his sons.
 
Second death is in reference to those that have no chance at a resurrection. A death that you can't come back from, and complete non-existence. When used in conjunction with people it means there is no resurrection. When used with inanimate things such as "Death itself being cast into the lake of fire" it means non-existence.

Right, so those not written in The Book of Life, or those who didn't repent and believe in Jesus, is that right?

Certainly. People wouldn't have a problem approaching the epic of Gilgamesh, but something about the Bible turns people into sophomoric boobs.

Real props to you guys in this thread. This is kind of how I wish all religious discussions on gaf went about.

Agreed to both!
 
Right, so those not written in The Book of Life, or those who didn't repent and believe in Jesus, is that right?

In a nutshell and mind you this is more heavy stuff there are two resurrections in the bible those to heaven and those to earth. The ones to heaven are the minority as they will act as kings and priests over their subjects(those resurrected to the earth) - Also as a side note pay attention to the arrangement of the priestly class to the kings in Leviticus - 1 Samuel, 2 Samuel. The arrangement set up there is mimicked in the heavenly arrangement set up with Christ as King along with the anointed priests.

Regarding the earthly resurrection and those that will be there Jesus talks about a resurrection of the "righteous and unrighteous". Now this isn't meant to be taken as evidence that good people and evil people will be brought back since unrighteous in Greek can mean 'unlearned' and righteous is the knowledge and application of what is right. This would include the mass majority of mankind that were not in circumstances where hearing the news of christ was possible. However, this isn't just physical proximity but also considering the place they were in their lives since god is called the reader of hearts and has shown to grant favor to people just based on his intimate knowledge of them being called "the reader of hearts". A lot of things play in to bringing someone where they end up at the conclusion of their life and only god has the ability to see the whole individual enough to see what there real character is.

Well I guess the idea is that all the animals we have today were on the ark. I'm not sure how he'd manage to get animals from the Americas on the ark but eh...

Only 47 KINDS of Mammals, 74 KINDS of Birds, and 10 KINDS of Lizards would be needed to spawn all the known species on earth today.

As regards space on the ark of the 2,500 species of mammals only 300 are larger than a horse and 2,200 are smaller than a rabbit.
 
Even though I've read Genesis 1 before, until this thread I didn't appreciate that Genesis portrays dry land as being inside of a giant bubble between the oceans and the great ocean in the sky. It's a really interesting image and one I don't think I've seen before. Someone should write a Bubble World series to compete with Disc World.
 
I read the second set that the animals went in pair by pair. So you could have 7 pairs but each pair went in one by one.

Genesis 6:19-20:

And of every living thing of all flesh, you shall bring two of every kind into the ark, to keep them alive with you; they shall be male and female. Of the birds after their kind, and of the animals after their kind, of every creeping thing of the ground after its kind, two of every kind will come to you to keep them alive.


This is actually part of what is called the Priestly Tradition of the Flood Account. The Yahwist tradition states that there were seven pairs of clean animals and one pair of unclean animals. There are two different traditions that have been spliced together in Genesis 5-9, and critical scholars have detached them from one another.

Notice that in Genesis 6, God commands Noah to bring two of each type of animal, and yet once the ark is finished, God acts as if He had commanded Noah to bring in 7 pairs of each clean animal and a pair of unclean animals.


This is not the only inconsistency in the narrative. Watch this:

Genesis 7:4 "For in seven days I will send rain on the earth forty days and forty nights, and every living thing that I have made I will blot out from the face of the ground."

So the rain was supposed to begin and last for 40 days.

Genesis 7:24 And the waters prevailed on the earth 150 days.


This cannot be the case, since 7:4 says the exact opposite.

Genesis 8:2-5

The fountains of the deep and the windows of the heavens were closed, the rain from the heavens was restrained, and the waters receded from the earth continually. At the end of 150 days the waters had abated, and in the seventh month, on the seventeenth day of the month, the ark came to rest on the mountains of Ararat. And the waters continued to abate until the tenth month; in the tenth month, on the first day of the month, the tops of the mountains were seen.


This text says that the rain had finally stopped after 150 days.


This contradicts Genesis 7:4 which says: "At the end of forty days Noah opened the window of the ark that he had made".


Why would it say that after 40 days Noah opened the window of the ark if the entire event lasted over 150 days? The only sensible solution is to posit two different traditional sources.
 
This is actually part of what is called the Priestly Tradition of the Flood Account. The Yahwist tradition states that there were seven pairs of clean animals and one pair of unclean animals. There are two different traditions that have been spliced together in Genesis 5-9, and critical scholars have detached them from one another.

Do you know of any theories of why the two sources were put together in the first place?
 
Genesis 6:19-20:




This is actually part of what is called the Priestly Tradition of the Flood Account. The Yahwist tradition states that there were seven pairs of clean animals and one pair of unclean animals. There are two different traditions that have been spliced together in Genesis 5-9, and critical scholars have detached them from one another.

Notice that in Genesis 6, God commands Noah to bring two of each type of animal, and yet once the ark is finished, God acts as if He had commanded Noah to bring in 7 pairs of each clean animal and a pair of unclean animals.


This is not the only inconsistency in the narrative. Watch this:



So the rain was supposed to begin and last for 40 days.




This cannot be the case, since 7:4 says the exact opposite.




This text says that the rain had finally stopped after 150 days.


This contradicts Genesis 7:4 which says: "At the end of forty days Noah opened the window of the ark that he had made".


Why would it say that after 40 days Noah opened the window of the ark if the entire event lasted over 150 days? The only sensible solution is to posit two different traditional sources.

Very good post and good point. It seems that early on in the Bible there are different accounts of the same events which is true for much of the Bible. Even when we get to Jesus there are multiple accounts of what happened, each being unique.
 
I've heard explanations that the physical incarnation of God on earth was the Son(who would take on human form in Jesus) and not God the Father. Trinity and all.

This is what is referred to as a Christophany. Other popular candidates for Christophanies in the OT according to various Christian groups are the captain of the heavenly host who speaks with Joshua in Joshua 5, Melchizedek, and one of the mysterious guys that Abram talks to in Genesis 18.

Some thoughts on today's readings:
-I never really understood the story with Noah and Ham, so I figured there must have been some sort of cultural thing that I was missing. Although if taken literally, I could see Noah getting mad at his son for seeing him drunk and not having the respect to cover him up that his other sons had, but then why curse Canaan instead of Ham? So here's what Wikipedia has to say on the matter, but it's certainly not definitive.

Ham was "blessed" in Genesis 9:1 - Noah did not curse him directly, instead cursing his son Canaan.

The Talmud deduces two possible explanations, one attributed to Rab and one to Rabbi Samuel, for what Ham did to Noah to warrant the curse.[4] According to Rab, Ham castrated Noah on the basis that, since Noah cursed Ham by his fourth son Canaan, Ham must have injured Noah with respect to a fourth son. Emasculating him thus deprived Noah of the possibility of a fourth son.

According to Samuel, Ham sodomized Noah, a judgment that he based on analogy with another biblical incident in which the phrase "and he saw" is used: With regard to Ham and Noah, Genesis 9 reads, "[22] And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brethren without. [23] And Shem and Japheth took a garment, and laid it upon both their shoulders, and went backward, and covered the nakedness of their father; and their faces were backward, and they saw not their father's nakedness."[5] In Genesis 34:2, it reads, "And when Shechem the son of Hamor saw her (Dinah), he took her and lay with her and defiled her." According to this argument, similar abuse must have happened each time that the Bible uses the same language. The Talmud concludes that, in fact, "both indignities were perpetrated."

Although the story can be taken literally, in more recent times, some scholars have suggested that Ham may have had intercourse with his father's wife.[6] Under this interpretation, Canaan is cursed as the "product of Ham's illicit union."[7]

-We've got the earliest biblical reference to Magog here, one half of the famous Gog and Magog pair. It's really interesting how Magog goes from being just some guy who has a lot of descendants to a representative name for that nation to some future apocalyptic nation/demon/enemy-of-the-Christians/??? to a giant in Britain.

-The genealogies, though dry, are still interesting for their amount of detail and for showing just how obsessive with descent and bloodlines the Hebrews were, as are many nomadic societies. Also when reading one of those lists, I was reminded of how funny a name "Nimrod" is. Weird how that turned into an insult.

-The Tower of Babel is the impetus for the beginning of the Bible's 19th century sequel, the Book of Mormon, in which the Jaredites leave Asia and head out west after the confounding of the nations. Maybe we should read that next year? Or perhaps the Quran since it's more historically important. Hmm.
 
-The Tower of Babel is the impetus for the beginning of the Bible's 19th century sequel, the Book of Mormon, in which the Jaredites leave Asia and head out west after the confounding of the nations. Maybe we should read that next year? Or perhaps the Quran since it's more historically important. Hmm.

I'd be totally down for that as they are books that I have read basically none of.
 
So the rain was supposed to begin and last for 40 days.

This cannot be the case, since 7:4 says the exact opposite.

You remember back when Hurricane Katrina passed over New Orleans? It rained for like... ~8 hours, but "the waters prevailed" a good deal of time longer? Or, like how it snowed in New England last Saturday for like ~6 hours, but there is still snow on the ground today, almost a week later.

Weather is like that... It might only rain or snow for one or two days, but the effects of the rain or snow can last a lot longer, and when people told stories about floods ~3,000 years ago, weather was like that then too.
 
You remember back when Hurricane Katrina passed over New Orleans? It rained for like... ~8 hours, but "the waters prevailed" a good deal of time longer? Or, like how it snowed in New England last Saturday for like ~6 hours, but there is still snow on the ground today, almost a week later.

Weather is like that... It might only rain or snow for one or two days, but the effects of the rain or snow can last a lot longer, and when people told stories about floods ~3,000 years ago, weather was like that then too.

What I find fascinating about the flood is that there are other accounts of a huge flood in other cultures.
 
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