BLACK AMERICAN PSYCHO
Junior Member
YES
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GAF: Would you be OK with a traditional gaming controller forever?
- Thread starter jerd
- Start date
No. Seeing new additions to controllers has always been one of my favorite things about new generations. Whether it was new buttons where they weren't before, new input devices like analog sticks, or new twists on old things like analog triggers. I even enjoyed the experimental things that didn't stick, like the Gamecube's button layout and clicking triggers.
It bums me out that the industry seems to have stopped trying new things with the traditional controller. You either have your experimental controller like the Wiimote, Move, or Kinect, or you have your standardized Dual Shock type controller. The one big exception is the Gamepad. And I hope the rumors about the PS4 controller are true, because I've long felt that a touchpad would be a great addition to controllers.
As for MS, I hope they at least add something next gen. Doesn't even have to be anything crazy. Just add some new buttons where there were not buttons before, like maybe where your middle finger rests on the back of the controller. I'll be super disappointed if they just reuse the 360 controller.
It bums me out that the industry seems to have stopped trying new things with the traditional controller. You either have your experimental controller like the Wiimote, Move, or Kinect, or you have your standardized Dual Shock type controller. The one big exception is the Gamepad. And I hope the rumors about the PS4 controller are true, because I've long felt that a touchpad would be a great addition to controllers.
As for MS, I hope they at least add something next gen. Doesn't even have to be anything crazy. Just add some new buttons where there were not buttons before, like maybe where your middle finger rests on the back of the controller. I'll be super disappointed if they just reuse the 360 controller.
Fox Mulder
Member
Controller evolution usually leads to better controls. The Wiiu had potential but got buried in waggle mini games and lazy efforts.
The thing about Kinect is that literally everything it does is more clunky and slow than a controller, especially interfaces. It's only good for dancing games, sometimes.
I have no problem with an evolution in controls as long as it's actually something better.
The thing about Kinect is that literally everything it does is more clunky and slow than a controller, especially interfaces. It's only good for dancing games, sometimes.
I have no problem with an evolution in controls as long as it's actually something better.
Night_Trekker
Member
No. The industry needs variety, not stagnation, even when it comes to controller design.
The results won't always make self-described "hardcore" gamers happy, but so what?
The results won't always make self-described "hardcore" gamers happy, but so what?
Meatvillain
Banned
I would be totally okay with controllers remaining relatively unchanged. That said, I'm welcoming to new control inputs and such, provided they/the games that implement them don't suck.
REMEMBER CITADEL
Banned
We've had multiple control options since at least the days of Atari 2600, so no, it would be a terrible regression and an artificial limitation imposed on natural progress just because a certain small percentage of people can't deal with change.
Two clickable sticks, four face buttons, two shoulder buttons, two analog triggers, and one d-pad is a pretty silly place to arbitrarily assume that all meaningful innovation must stop.
The fact that it's a workable setup for games with our current level of abstraction is indicative of absolutely nothing - As games put more things under our control, we'll need input mechanisms that can keep up.
matrix-cat
Member
Do wheels, Track IRs, flight sticks and mouse and keyboards count as traditional controllers? Because I would never give those up. I'm fine with Kinect and motion stuff being experimented with, and one day when they're precise enough to be a viable alternative to physical controllers I'll try them out, but at the moment I have no interest in them.
I think I would be fine with traditional controllers forever, though, because the kinds of games I like the most are things like DMC3 and Spider-Man 2 - games that are all about the tactile feeling of button presses translating to actions on screen. I can't say whether some space technology in 2018 is going to revolutionise the way I think about games, of course, but the version of me that lives in the present likes values responsiveness and number-of-buttons-at-finger-and-thumb-tips above all else.
I think I would be fine with traditional controllers forever, though, because the kinds of games I like the most are things like DMC3 and Spider-Man 2 - games that are all about the tactile feeling of button presses translating to actions on screen. I can't say whether some space technology in 2018 is going to revolutionise the way I think about games, of course, but the version of me that lives in the present likes values responsiveness and number-of-buttons-at-finger-and-thumb-tips above all else.
chaosblade
Unconfirmed Member
I don't really like the idea of stick waggling or jumping around in front of a camera. That's not really a fun way to play games to me and it doesn't add anything to the type of games I enjoy.
Pointer controls and the WiiU gamepad are fine though, both are more like enhancements to the tradional experience.
And specialized controllers like flight sticks, wheels, etc are a different thing altogether.
Pointer controls and the WiiU gamepad are fine though, both are more like enhancements to the tradional experience.
And specialized controllers like flight sticks, wheels, etc are a different thing altogether.
M°°nblade
Banned
If I’ve learned anything from past generations it’s that those new types of gameplay are based on the novelty of the hardware, and once that novelty wears off, people will abandon it.
An input device can never initiate innovation, the games have to do that.
With the shift from 2D of 3D games, manufacturers adapted the controller and included analog sticks so that traditional 3D games were more fun to play.
With the rising popularity of shooting and race games, MS included the trigger button. Again, existing (traditional) experiences were enhanced because the hardware adaption served the games.
If it’s the other way around and developers have to shoehorn new gameplay into traditional games to make use of hardware novelties, it won’t last because that new gameplay is not part of the core experience that made the game fun to play in the first place.
Sapphire Dreams
Member
I am all for evolving, just do as an evolution not as a gimmick.
Which still countsby the way. I'm talking about any alterations that change the way you play.
M°°nblade;47658083 said:
Okay, so let's say Oculus Rift catches on and immersive first person VR games start gaining some real traction. Would something like a more refined Razer Hydra be a justifiable change, since it would allow for more detailed, precise interaction with objects in a 3D environment?
CosmicGroinPull
Member
So where do you draw the line between the two?
About this:
"Never have seen any gamer claim wanting innovation in regards to controls. What I have seen has always been in regards to gameplay."
I totally disagree. I loved the analog stick when introduced on the N64 pad, I loved the double stick introduced by the Dualshock, I loved the trigger introduced by Dreamcast, but not only this.
I loved the touch screen introduced by the DS and the pointer introduced by the Remote. And considering how it was not a standard that overshadow everything else, I really liked also the motion control of the Remote: it was great to play Sport, but also Red Steel 2 for example, that way.
And about the Gamepad: it is simply great. It keeps intact all the existing classic possibilities (and where it doesn't, as for the trigger, it's not a concret limit of that concept) and adds a lot of additional possibilities (in terms of double indipendent rendering, gyroscope, offtv etc...)
"Never have seen any gamer claim wanting innovation in regards to controls. What I have seen has always been in regards to gameplay."
I totally disagree. I loved the analog stick when introduced on the N64 pad, I loved the double stick introduced by the Dualshock, I loved the trigger introduced by Dreamcast, but not only this.
I loved the touch screen introduced by the DS and the pointer introduced by the Remote. And considering how it was not a standard that overshadow everything else, I really liked also the motion control of the Remote: it was great to play Sport, but also Red Steel 2 for example, that way.
And about the Gamepad: it is simply great. It keeps intact all the existing classic possibilities (and where it doesn't, as for the trigger, it's not a concret limit of that concept) and adds a lot of additional possibilities (in terms of double indipendent rendering, gyroscope, offtv etc...)
Yep. We will get stuff that's slightly more accurate and efficient as time goes on (see: Oculus Rift), but once you can plug straight in it won't matter.
Noisepurge
Member
yeah i truly hope Rift kicks off and we will _need_ better, more comprehensive controllers to play these virtual experiences. two thumbsticks just aint gonna cut it 
But atleast with the Rift you can tilt your head to provide peeking around corners etc.
But atleast with the Rift you can tilt your head to provide peeking around corners etc.Bigmac1910
Member
YES! I don't mind it becoming even more ergonomic, and precise, but it's like the qwerty keyboard now, is there really need for change? So far all other controllers have failed or are used by special kind of software or games (like steering wheels) with a very limited audience. While I love innovation, this feels like companies are just trying to reinvent the wheel. Also I like to sit and play in a safe way so I don't accidently hit someone or something.
I also tried the Wii U in store, and thought it was really jarring to look at either the large TV or the small controller screen while playing the Rayman Legends demo.
I also tried the Wii U in store, and thought it was really jarring to look at either the large TV or the small controller screen while playing the Rayman Legends demo.
Qwerty keyboards are a funny comparison to make considering they were designed to hamper typing speed
M°°nblade;47658368 said:
Orayn posted a fantastic quote on this subject earlier in the thread:
People don't really know what they want.
M°°nblade
Banned
It doesn't matter who asks it. It matters who wants it.
And beside the other factors, I do think that the Wii was primary abandoned because the novelty of Wiimote and Wiifit wore off over time.
Platinumstorm
Member
No, but I sure wish Nintendo would release quality wireless nunchuck/remote with a good USB battery charge.
IrrelevantNotch
Banned
I want the right analog stick to get replaced with a touch pad.
Bigmac1910
Member
Qwerty keyboards are a funny comparison to make considering they were designed to hamper typing speed
Never heard that they were designed for that, any source? I just meant that the form factor and features though.
Bigmac1910
Member
Get a Nintendo 3DS, it's awful to play like that.
IrrelevantNotch
Banned
not a shitty touch screen, a capacitive touch pad. Like on my macbook. And also is easy to reach.
No, it would be not! I'm so glad the Wii evolved the interaction between humans and consoles.
Controllers are the link between the user and the gameplay.
Dual analog started to get boring, I swear.
Pointer controls made me like FPS again and motion controls not only improved some games for me, but made one of the best games I ever played possible:
Zelda Skyward Sword.
It's was truly a next gen experience, something that was never done before. It wow'd me.
To me motion controls are just a natural evolution. I hope I see and get to play more games uttilizing them.
Same goes for pointer controls. They should be starndard for every FPS.
Controllers are the link between the user and the gameplay.
Dual analog started to get boring, I swear.
Pointer controls made me like FPS again and motion controls not only improved some games for me, but made one of the best games I ever played possible:
Zelda Skyward Sword.
It's was truly a next gen experience, something that was never done before. It wow'd me.
To me motion controls are just a natural evolution. I hope I see and get to play more games uttilizing them.
Same goes for pointer controls. They should be starndard for every FPS.
M°°nblade
Banned
Ford doesn't say people don't know what they want.
He explains that people have problems discerning means from goals, and thus problems explaining exactly what they want by eg. asking for 'faster horses' (means) wen they actually mean 'faster transport' (goal).
http://www.ideafinder.com/history/inventions/qwerty.htm
Its kind of debated if the whole story is true or not, but afaik its still the widely accepted explanation for our screwed up key layout. However, very OT.
Bigmac1910
Member
I still think it's hard to play an FPS like that there is nothing to stop your finger from going too far, other games probably wouldn't suffer as much, but I still don't like that idea.
M°°nblade;47658550 said:
So when you say "better gameplay", you're 100% sure that it cannot possibly come from a different control scheme/method?
Edit: In other words, how do you know that "better gameplay" doesn't equal "faster horses"? Maybe you want better means of playing the game.
Sapphire Dreams
Member
When it actually elevates the experience and not feel like an add on that can be done without, a good example is Dance Central for Kinect, you guys can complain about Kinect all you want but Dance Central gave me a new experience that I never had before, even if It arguably the only functional Kinect game.
Edit : I am not saying that Kinect is superior to regular controls, my point is that I am all for a new input that gives me a new and exciting experience like never before.
Tough to say. There's always the chance that something will come in the future that is way more enjoyable than a traditional gamepad. So I'll say no, not forever.
I can say that alternative stuff available now is of zero interest to me. Touch controls like on iOS, motion controls, Kinect: it's all garbage compared to a regular controller.
I can say that alternative stuff available now is of zero interest to me. Touch controls like on iOS, motion controls, Kinect: it's all garbage compared to a regular controller.
Beermeister
Banned
Traditional gaming controller 4 life, son! (Jeff Gerstmann's voice)
Bigmac1910
Member
I think the overall problem is that the input device has to function with pretty much all genres. So far only the game pad and keyboard + mouse combination that truly works. The rest of these innovations only work for some of these genres. As long as an input device cannot cater to to all genres or hinders the experience in any way, it just won't work.
JimmyRustler
Member
Yes. Maybe 2 buttons more but that's it.
Trent Strong
Banned
Yes. There's no way to improve them at this point.
M°°nblade
Banned
Because 'better gameplay/experience' describes a goal and not 'how' it should be achieved. It's up to manufacturerers and developers to come up with the best possible means because they have the engineers and knowledge to make things possible consumers didn't know were possible or didn't think of.
People seem to interpretate what I said the wrong way. I'm not saying current controllers should stay exactly the way they are. I'm saying they should serve the needs of the application and not the other way around.
Out of all the posters with some kind of reference to "pachter" in their username or avatar, you sir, are, by far, my favorite.
shhh... don't let the alcohol cheapen this moment...
I'm perfectly fine with the current traditional controllers being the status quo on consoles. They can continue to refine them, but we don't need a dramatic shift in controls unless there's a dramatic movement away from playing video games in the living room - nobody has provided a compelling reason to do such a thing.
PC already nailed the nearly ideal setup ages ago. Mouse & keyboard, there's nothing better.
PC already nailed the nearly ideal setup ages ago. Mouse & keyboard, there's nothing better.
I love you too, Mitt.
I don't think it was "new", but it was certainly "better" than any other dance game, and that's where Kinect won. Just Dance on the Wii was similar, but the wiimote wasn't very good at detecting movements, Kinect is better, and of course both are better than pressing buttons on a controller. I don't think many people will make scoring runs in Dance Central, but it doesn't matter. It's a better interface between the player and the game, that's the important part.
I honestly think it's depressing that people exist who actually think this.
I honestly expected more responses along these lines. I think that it is perfectly acceptable and a reasonable opinion to hold, I would just like for people to provide an explanation if possible.