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GAFs opinion. Am I a pirate? Borrowing related.

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rackham said:
A slight parody thread in that I personally don't see the difference between emulation and borrowing someone's stuff to play the game.

the logic that "they already paid for the game, you're fine" could probably be worked into emulation as well considering that people all over the place bought the game too.
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Well, no. When you borrow something from someone, that person is deprived of its use while you have it. That's obviously not the case with emulation.

Lending things to someone is a fundamental right of private property (as much as media companies try to write silly things into their licence agreements). Emulation via piracy is not.
 
Sharing was part of the original worth of the console and the game, if the owners agree for you to borrow it then it's usage as intended and you're under no ethical obligation to pay Nintendo.
It's a weird dilemma to have, I'm sure corporations would love if everybody felt that way though.
 
jaden-gif-1488415000.gif
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Really makes you think, OP.
 
rackham said:
So I borrowed my cousin's Wii U today because Gamefly sent me an email to resubscribe for $1. my $1 is going towards a Zelda rental.
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I think the only part that's actually worth discussing to me is the fact that you don't own a Nintendo console. The "are rentals bad for gaming" ship said long long ago.

But Nintendo obviously wants people to buy a console for three reasons:
1) mo' money
2) console install base influences developer decisions about publishing titles on that console
3) owning the console makes you more likely to buy other titles and accessories

What you're doing is certainly not piracy, but Nintendo is making no money from you and can't count on you as part of their ecosystem when going to publishers. I suppose at least they'd rather you play on a borrowed Wii U than use CEMU on a PC though, because at least with the Wii U you might decide you like it enough to buy one.
 
Tenck said:
No one tell Nintendo about the used market. Multiple people enjoying the same disc. Blasphemous.
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Nintendo hates the used market.



Also, I never meant to talk about the legality of it, only the morality. Personally I feel fine (<--gotta stress this because people keep wasting their post) but in the back of my mind, I understand that I haven't offered any support to a company through this way of playing some games.
 
yes op, using nintendo's intellectual property without paying for it is a violation of the NAP and you should expect the Nintendo Private Defense Force™ to transport you to the labour camps shortly
 
I am also a pirate OP. I bought FFXV for just 13.70€ today on PSN. The intended price was 41€ but someone at Sony f* up and applied a double discount. I feel so bad now

/s
 
rackham said:
So I borrowed my cousin's Wii U today because Gamefly sent me an email to resubscribe for $1. my $1 is going towards a Zelda rental.

My question is this, Nintendo is seeing none of my money. Is this morally the same as emulation piracy? When I'm done with the gamefly disc it will go back into their hands to go back into someone else's hands. Nintendo has only seen money for that disc once and for that console that I now have, once. Is there a difference between the kid down the street buying the console and game while his neighbor emulates and pirates? Conversely, he could just borrow his neighbor's stuff (with permission obviously) and it's still the same situation for Nintendo.


Thoughts?
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Jack Rackham?
 
I would say this isn't piracy; or course, but I understand the thought.

We all agree that a friend lending out his game is totally cool and isn't piracy. But how about to 5 friends? 50 friends? 500 friends?

The logic of "well, the friend had a license to use the game as he pleases"....

Couldn't you, hypothetically speaking, apply that same logic to someone who uploads a game? someone along the way owned the game.


If I played a game, beat it, and let a friend borrow it, that's totally fine. But if I made a copy of a game that was sitting on my shelf never played again, and gave that copy to a friend, then that's piracy and bad. But fundamentally not all that different.


Like I said, I don't think this is piracy. But it's not a crazy comparison either.
 
mrk8885 said:
I would say this isn't piracy; or course, but I understand the thought.

We all agree that a friend lending out his game is totally cool and isn't piracy. But how about to 5 friends? 50 friends? 500 friends?

The logic of "well, the friend had a license to use the game as he pleases"....

Couldn't you, hypothetically speaking, apply that same logic to someone who uploads a game? someone along the way owned the game.


If I played a game, beat it, and let a friend borrow it, that's totally fine. But if I made a copy of a game that wasnsittinf on my shelf never played again, and gave that copy to a friend, then that's piracy and bad. But fundamentally not all that different.


Like I said, I don't think this is piracy. But it's not a crazy comparison either.
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Only one copy of the game is being used by those 500 people, one at a time. Now if he uploaded it, then all 500 could access it at the same time. Not the same thing.
 
ISee said:
I am also a pirate OP. I bought FFXV for just 13.70€ today on PSN. The intended price was 41€ but someone at Sony f* up and applied a double discount. I feel so bad now

/s
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GOG keeps pirating me so many free games that I've been thinking of closing my account.
 
rackham said:
Also, I never meant to talk about the legality of it, only the morality. Personally I feel fine (<--gotta stress this because people keep wasting their post) but in the back of my mind, I understand that I haven't offered any support to a company through this way of playing some games.
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I mean... I won't say I'm sure how Gamefly operates, but rental services do not "pay for one copy only" to be able to rent them... Unless they're doing something that's straight up illegal

Edit: I'm wrong and dumb. Still, there's a whole sea of difference between rental and pirating.
 
I expect a mod to close this because they're fed up with "pirate" threads and arguing over stupid stuff.

I don't blame them...even if your thread is snarky sarcasm.

:)
 
mrk8885 said:
I would say this isn't piracy; or course, but I understand the thought.

We all agree that a friend lending out his game is totally cool and isn't piracy. But how about to 5 friends? 50 friends? 500 friends?

The logic of "well, the friend had a license to use the game as he pleases"....

Couldn't you, hypothetically speaking, apply that same logic to someone who uploads a game? someone along the way owned the game.


If I played a game, beat it, and let a friend borrow it, that's totally fine. But if I made a copy of a game that wasnsittinf on my shelf never played again, and gave that copy to a friend, then that's piracy and bad. But fundamentally not all that different.


Like I said, I don't think this is piracy. But it's not a crazy comparison either.
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If 500 of your friends are happy to wait in line years to play a game then by all means. I'm willing to bet that most will give in and buy the game. These comparisons are so silly.
 
Just stop thinking so much and enjoy the game. You are not breaking the law and what you're doing is perfectly fine. It's not your job to worry about Nintendo's wallet
 
Wait real talk - what about downloading a ROM of a game you own? Like, if I own Super Mario World cartridge or on Wii VC and download a ROM to play on my computer, is that piracy? What about if I rip the image myself?

Serious question because the rules for piracy seem...Very gray.
 
nicoga3000 said:
Wait real talk - what about downloading a ROM of a game you own? Like, if I own Super Mario World cartridge or on Wii VC and download a ROM to play on my computer, is that piracy? What about if I rip the image myself?

Serious question because the rules for piracy seem...Very gray.
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Seems like if you rip the image yourself you're fine. If not, it's still piracy.
 
You'd have a legal battle between GameFly and Nintendo if this was the case. Look how far these companies have gone? I saw a huge ad for Final Fantasy XV on a Redbox one time. Someone is purchasing these games and companies will market off of it.


It would be like purchasing a 3rd party controller or screen protector and believing that you stole money from Nintendo. I've purchased screen protectors from eBay. I have no idea how they even got a hold of them, they were so cheap. They work and no one is stopping them. I'm sure no one went broke because I don't go to Best Buy and pay them $30 for an iPhone tempered glass screen protector either.

It is a good argument though. GameStop profits from used games, but that's another discussion.
 
nicoga3000 said:
Serious question because the rules for piracy seem...Very gray.
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Yes, its a grey area, and ultimately there's not really anything stopping you doing what you want.

Realising that ultimately getting a ton of free games leads to shittier game experiences with persistent online checking, huge chunks of the game removed for digital purchase checks, in game microtransactions etc, or, at the worst case, no new games from that company period isn't so much "corporate ball licking" as it is real politik
 
Absolutely OP. In fact, I would regret posting about it on a public forum, since now the ninjas are out in full force to find you and take you down!
 
To me (and it seems nearly everyone else) it's clear that OP is not a pirate.

But what about a trickier version of this question...

Setting: I own a SNES. I want to play Chrono Trigger on it, but I don't own it.

Scenario 1: I buy it on ebay for $125, play it for two weeks, sell it on ebay for $140 (let's say I'm better at selling on ebay than the original guy for whatever reason).

Original seller makes some money. Developer doesn't make a dime, and net I spent $0 but played Chrono Trigger on my SNES for two weeks.

In this scenario, clearly I'm not a pirate.

Scenario 2: I borrow the game from a friend, play it for a few weeks and give it back.

Here again, I'm not a pirate, but again I didn't pay money for the game to the developer (or anyone else for that matter).

Scenario 3: I buy a Super Everdrive. I download the Chrono Trigger ROM and play it on my SNES. Here I'm out the cost of the Everdrive, but again the developer doesn't see a dime. In this scenario I'm clearly labeled a pirate. Correct?

My issue here is I don't see how scenario 3 is so fundamentally different from scenarios 1 & 2. I can't give Square Enix money to play Chrono Trigger on SNES, which is what I want to do. Thus I would argue that none of the 3 scenarios should be classified as piracy.

But I imagine that a lot of people would say that scenario 3 is in fact piracy after all. What do you think?
 
oh man, some of ya'll are really tightly wound by these concepts

it's like the other end of the spectrum from weird retro game collecting where folks pay a reseller hundreds of dollars and feel they've done a moral good by developers long gone who don't see a cent
 
The problem with piracy is that no one has the right to create and distribute extra copies of the game but the publisher.

Game rentals don't create extra copies of the game, so distributing those copies isn't piracy.

fantasyGG said:
According to Nintendo's FAQ:


So, second copy rule is illegal even if you already paid for the game?
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The "second copy rule" means you, the person who created a game, can create an archival copy from the copy you rightfully purchased.

If you downloaded the second copy off the internet, it doesn't matter if you own the game because that "second copy" wasn't created from the copy you rightfully own.
 
So many repliers here thinking they're just answering a silly question, when it's all an admitted ruse to justify piracy.
 
You have personally pilfered Miyamoto's pockets, for he is the sole employee of Nintendo. All the blood, sweat, and tears he put into handcrafting the Wii U and Zelda with homemade, homegrown materials. You stole that from him. He is now living on the streets, holding a sign that says "I used to be Nintendo".
 
The only ethical problem with piracy is that the developers are not being compensated for their work. Borrowing a friends console and then renting the game for $1, to me, might as well be piracy.

Piracy can be unethical and immoral, but I don't think people should pretend to be saints by standing on a soap box shouting at everyone who downloads a game occasionally
 
Missing some vital information OP. Did you sail to your cousins house? On your way there did you forcefully board any other ships and help yourself to their cargo? And while on your way back did you connect to 4G and download some roms?
 
IrishNinja said:
oh man, some of ya'll are really tightly wound by these concepts

it's like the other end of the spectrum from weird retro game collecting where folks pay a reseller hundreds of dollars and feel they've done a moral good by developers long gone who don't see a cent
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Heard u talkin' shit.
 
modsbox said:
To me (and it seems nearly everyone else) it's clear that OP is not a pirate.

But what about a trickier version of this question...

Setting: I own a SNES. I want to play Chrono Trigger on it, but I don't own it.

Scenario 1: I buy it on ebay for $125, play it for two weeks, sell it on ebay for $140 (let's say I'm better at selling on ebay than the original guy for whatever reason).

Original seller makes some money. Developer doesn't make a dime, and net I spent $0 but played Chrono Trigger on my SNES for two weeks.

In this scenario, clearly I'm not a pirate.

Scenario 2: I borrow the game from a friend, play it for a few weeks and give it back.

Here again, I'm not a pirate, but again I didn't pay money for the game to the developer (or anyone else for that matter).

Scenario 3: I buy a Super Everdrive. I download the Chrono Trigger ROM and play it on my SNES. Here I'm out the cost of the Everdrive, but again the developer doesn't see a dime. In this scenario I'm clearly labeled a pirate. Correct?

My issue here is I don't see how scenario 3 is so fundamentally different from scenarios 1 & 2. I can't give Square Enix money to play Chrono Trigger on SNES, which is what I want to do. Thus I would argue that none of the 3 scenarios should be classified as piracy.

But I imagine that a lot of people would say that scenario 3 is in fact piracy after all. What do you think?
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How can you not see the difference between a physical copy that can only be in possession of one person at a time and a digital one that can be in possession of pretty much anyone? And before we go into an argument about digital games, we buy a license that is only for us, we can share that license, but we can't distribute it. That's why DMR and stuff like that will never go away.

People are obviously more lenient (and they should) with older games, because like you said, the developer is not seeing a dime, but it's still piracy, they still have the rights to re-release it and everything.
 
modsbox said:
To me (and it seems nearly everyone else) it's clear that OP is not a pirate.

But what about a trickier version of this question...

Setting: I own a SNES. I want to play Chrono Trigger on it, but I don't own it.

Scenario 1: I buy it on ebay for $125, play it for two weeks, sell it on ebay for $140 (let's say I'm better at selling on ebay than the original guy for whatever reason).

Original seller makes some money. Developer doesn't make a dime, and net I spent $0 but played Chrono Trigger on my SNES for two weeks.

In this scenario, clearly I'm not a pirate.

Scenario 2: I borrow the game from a friend, play it for a few weeks and give it back.

Here again, I'm not a pirate, but again I didn't pay money for the game to the developer (or anyone else for that matter).

Scenario 3: I buy a Super Everdrive. I download the Chrono Trigger ROM and play it on my SNES. Here I'm out the cost of the Everdrive, but again the developer doesn't see a dime. In this scenario I'm clearly labeled a pirate. Correct?

My issue here is I don't see how scenario 3 is so fundamentally different from scenarios 1 & 2. I can't give Square Enix money to play Chrono Trigger on SNES, which is what I want to do. Thus I would argue that none of the 3 scenarios should be classified as piracy.

But I imagine that a lot of people would say that scenario 3 is in fact piracy after all. What do you think?
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It's like child porn. Sorry for the extreme analogy but hear me out. You aren't literally hurting a child by consuming child porn, but by consuming it you are hurting children by creating demand for more to be created. You may not personally be costing Nintendo a sale, but buying hardware and visiting piracy sites to get the roms, you are encouraging more piracy. And that hurts Nintendo and Square because they don't want widespread piracy of Chrono Trigger on SNES, they want to sell it on one of the formats they have for sale.
 
My take - from the standpoint of supporting Nintendo, what you did is legally of course not wrong. However, it's morally more wrong than a pirate who downloads a game but never plays it :P
 
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