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Gallup Poll: Reagan still the GOAT

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Oblivion said:
Tell me, do you think they care that we sold chemical weapons to Saddam. ;)
Only that it embarrassed them a bit later.

I guess that is the same with Iran too. Point taken.

I actually remember at the time thinking that we probably loved the Iran-Iraq war because both sides would sell us their oil to pay for the war and then buy our weapons to attack each other. Very cynical at such a young age.
 
SnakeswithLasers said:
I'm just proud of Americans for being able to name a president who isn't the current one.

Eh, that prolly has to do a lot with quite a chunk of the population refusing to acknowledge the one we have as president in the first place.
 
xbhaskarx said:
The first thing that stands out to me is Obama placing ahead of Teddy Roosevelt, Truman, Jefferson, Eisenhower, and Jackson, after two up-and-down years.

The second thing is, based on how high EVERY modern president (Nixon - Obama) in on that list, the average American has little historical knowledge or perspective.
This is surprising to you? People are stupid.
 
The Reagan Checklist:
1)Raised Taxes 11 times
2)Largest Tax increase in state history while governor of California
3)Tripled the Federal Deficit
4) Illegally gave Weapons to Iran.
5)1984, Pulled out of Lebanon
6)Help start the Taliban, trained and equipped the future Al-Qaida terrorists to fight the Soviets
7)Gave Amnesty to 3 million American Immigrants.
8)Vetoed the Anti-Apartheid Act in South Africa

But no America, Reagan was the greatest!
 
xbhaskarx said:
The first thing that stands out to me is Obama placing ahead of Teddy Roosevelt, Truman, Jefferson, Eisenhower, and Jackson, after two up-and-down years.

The second thing is, based on how high EVERY modern president (Nixon - Obama) in on that list, the average American has little historical knowledge or perspective.


Well, many people tend to equate the 'best President' to the one that was in office when they were the happiest, wealthiest, most optimistic etc etc. That's why you never see people like Bush Sr. or Carter on these lists because the economy was shit and people were not in good spirits.

It's hard to undo those emotional attachments and remain objective.
 
Blackface said:
What did Reagan do that is so good? Being from Canada, it seems like it he was one the worst.

Please educate me.

20040612issuecovUS400.jpg


Compare "Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall" to every speech Obama gave on Egypt between when the protests began on Jan 25 and Mubarak's resignation on Feb 11.

Of course there was plenty bad about Reagan as well, eg completely ignoring AIDS as the poster above pointed out.
 
xbhaskarx said:
20040612issuecovUS400.jpg


Compare "Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall" to every speech Obama gave on Egypt between when the protests began on Jan 25 and Mubarak's resignation on Feb 11.

Of course there was plenty bad about Reagan as well, eg completely ignoring AIDS as the poster above pointed out.
Oh Pffft. Tear down this wall was great as is. But it was just random luck that it came down two years later. The collapsing soviet system, Lech Walensa, and the Pope deserve more credit than Reagan . . . he just happened to be president at the time.

And the AIDS thing . . . yeah, that was terrible that he never said the word. But to his credit, Reagan did stand against the California anti-gay-teachers proposition.
 
speculawyer said:
Oh Pffft. Tear down this wall was great as is. But it was just random luck that it came down two years later. The collapsing soviet system, Lech Walensa, and the Pope deserve more credit than Reagan . . . he just happened to be president at the time.
Reagan was already out of office when the Berlin Wall fell.

It happened two and a half years after the "tear down this wall" speech too.
 
ToxicAdam said:
Well, many people tend to equate the 'best President' to the one that was in office when they were the happiest, wealthiest, most optimistic etc etc. That's why you never see people like Bush Sr. or Carter on these lists because the economy was shit and people were not in good spirits.

It's hard to undo those emotional attachments and remain objective.

It didn't help that Carter was also history's greatest monster either.
 
TacticalFox88 said:
The Reagan Checklist:

But no America, Reagan was the greatest!


Raised taxes to save Social Security

Raised gas taxes to help build/maintain highways

17 million jobs created. African American unemployment cut in half

"Whip"ped inflation and ended the era of stagflation

Spent billions of dollars on research and fighting AIDS.

Gave amnesty to 3 million illegal immigrants

The greatest expansion of medicare since it was signed into law


You liberals should love the guy. He did more brave, progressive things in his 8 years than Obama will ever do.
 
TacticalFox88 said:
The Reagan Checklist:
1)Raised Taxes 11 times
2)Largest Tax increase in state history while governor of California
3)Tripled the Federal Deficit
4) Illegally gave Weapons to Iran.
5)1984, Pulled out of Lebanon
6)Help start the Taliban, trained and equipped the future Al-Qaida terrorists to fight the Soviets
7)Gave Amnesty to 3 million American Immigrants.
8)Vetoed the Anti-Apartheid Act in South Africa

But no America, Reagan was the greatest!

Didn't he who botch at the Aids epidemic response?
 
ToxicAdam said:
Raised taxes to save Social Security

Raised gas taxes to help build/maintain highways

17 million jobs created. African American unemployment cut in half

"Whip"ped inflation and ended the era of stagflation

Spent billions of dollars on research and fighting AIDS.

Gave amnesty to 3 million illegal immigrants

The greatest expansion of medicare since it was signed into law


You liberals should love the guy. He did more brave, progressive things in his 8 years than Obama will ever do.


http://www.actupny.org/reports/reagan.html

http://www.actupny.org/indexfolder/reaganaids.html
 
speculawyer said:
Oh Pffft. Tear down this wall was great as is. But it was just random luck that it came down two years later. The collapsing soviet system, Lech Walensa, and the Pope deserve more credit than Reagan . . . he just happened to be president at the time.



MetatronM said:
Reagan was already out of office when the Berlin Wall fell.

It happened two and a half years after the "tear down this wall" speech too.

I don't think anyone is implying that the communists said "okay whatever you say Reagan" and started tearing down the wall the next day. But Reagan had influence on Soviet dissidents and movements throughout the Eastern bloc (eg Solididarity's Walensa on the influence of Thatcher's visit).
 
The thing that pisses me off about Reagan was his stubborn belief in SDI. We had a chance to really rid the world of nuclear weapons mostly, but he believed in fucking space lasers. I blame George Lucas.
 
GillianSeed79 said:
The thing that pisses me off about Reagan was his stubborn belief in SDI. We had a chance to really rid the world of nuclear weapons mostly, but he believed in fucking space lasers.

What are you talking about?

speculawyer said:
Wanted to get rid of all nuclear weapons

Hell, START was proposed by Reagan!

But yeah, too bad he didn't rid the world of nuclear weapons mostly... like every other US president since Truman did, right?
 
speculawyer said:
Iran-Contra
Amnesty
Negotiated with terrorists.
Cut & ran from Muslims
Saved social security through tax hikes.
Wanted to get rid of all nuclear weapons
Ran up a bigger debt than EVERY PRESIDENT BEFORE HIM COMBINED.

If GOPers had good memories, they wouldn't like him so much.
LOL yup. Revisionist history by today's GOP at it's finest.
 
George Washington
Theodore Roosevelt
FDR (except for the Japanese internment camps, ugh.)
Thomas Jefferson

In no particular order. Not a big fan of the rest.
 
lol ok. why try to be fair-minded about history and first-hand accounts from people that were there? Let's let an activist group that relies on keeping people enraged and engaged (to fill their coffers) be the one that keeps you informed.

Billions were still spent on Aids research and education during the Reagan administration. You've posted nothing that disproves that.
 
Reagan and Clinton both placed ahead of Washington?

What the fuck is this?

Also, where is the Raeganomics .gif? I expected to see it when I read the results and have been let down. :(
 
krypt0nian said:
Sorry, I'll go with ACT UP over someone looking to cover her ass. They were at the frontlines of this massacre.

ACT UP hmmm....
In 2000, ACT UP/Golden Gate changed its name to Survive AIDS, to avoid confusion with ACT UP/San Francisco (ACT UP/SF). The two had previously split apart in 1990, but continued to share the same essential philosophy. In 1994, ACT UP/SF began rejecting the scientific consensus regarding the cause of AIDS and the connection to HIV, and the two groups became openly hostile to each other, with mainstream gay and AIDS organizations also condemning ACT UP/SF.[20] The group would link up with People For the Ethical Treatment of Animals against animal research into AIDS cures.[20] Restraining orders have been granted after the organization physically attacked AIDS charities that help HIV-positive patients,[21] and activists have been found guilty in misdemeanor charges laid after threatening phone calls to journalists and public health officials.[22]

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C0CE1DE113EF930A35752C0A966958260&pagewanted=3
In 1988, Dr. Joseph, then the city's Health Commissioner, reduced by half his estimate of the number of city residents infected by the virus. While Dr. Joseph accompanied his study with the warning that no one should think it ''in any way reduces the services needed,'' Act-Up members accused him of a plot to accomplish that and other nefarious purposes. They splashed paint and posters on his house, occupied his office and called him a Nazi.

While no one really knows how many New Yorkers carry the virus, a panel of outside experts found the Commissioner's estimates to be ''in the ball park.''

In becoming ''too aggressive, too closed minded, as they sometimes are,'' Dr. Joseph said, ''you become the very thing you're fighting against, which is intolerance.''
 
ToxicAdam said:
lol ok


Billions were still spent on Aids research and education during the Reagan administration. You've posted nothing that disproves that.

Awesome. Group after group was denied funding. Maybe it actually went to pay for the Iran Contra thing? Because thousands died while he laughed at AIDS jokes.

Manos: The Hans of Fate said:
ACT UP hmmm....

I'm well area of their history. We're talking about pre-2000 Act Up.

As to your second quote, they did that and a lot worse. And I applaud that after being backed into a corner and forgotten about by the administration while people were dying.
 
ToxicAdam said:
You liberals should love the guy. He did more brave, progressive things in his 8 years than Obama will ever do.

I sadly agree, but it just goes to show how far right out current political has moved (both parties).
 
krypt0nian said:
Awesome. Group after group was denied funding. Maybe it actually went to pay for the Iran Contra thing? Because thousands died while he laughed at AIDS jokes.
.

Yes, I'm sure Ollie North carried envelopes of money to his Iranian contacts that had 'AIDS funding' hastily scribbled out on the front.
 
ToxicAdam said:
Yes, I'm sure Ollie North carried envelopes of money to his Iranian contacts that had 'AIDS funding' hastily scribbled out on the front.

How would that surprise you under that bastard president?
 
krypt0nian said:
I'm well area of their history. We're talking about pre-2000 Act Up.

As to your second quote, they did that and a lot worse. And I applaud that after being backed into a corner and forgotten about by the administration while people were dying.
Being the asshole trolls of the AIDS movement isn't really something to applaud. I doubt they ever truly accomplished anything in the end.
 
Manos: The Hans of Fate said:
Being the asshole trolls of the AIDS movement isn't really something to applaud. I doubt they ever truly accomplished anything in the end.

They did exactly what they set out to do. Get the word out there when NO ONE not even the president was talking about a disease that was killing people in the thousands.

And they did a great job. Too bad it took acting out to do it, but I'm glad they did.
 
krypt0nian said:
They did exactly what they set out to do. Get the word out there when NO ONE not even the president was talking about a disease that was killing people in the thousands.

And they did a great job. Too bad it took acting out to do it, but I'm glad they did.

I suspect Ryan White being on Donahue and other shows/news programs in general did more than they every did in terms of impact.
 
Manos: The Hans of Fate said:
I suspect Ryan White being on Donahue and other shows/news programs in general did more than they every did in terms of impact.

They did what they did YEARS before that. It (AIDS) was in the newspapers because of them.
 
Manos: The Hans of Fate said:
No one apparently cared that much. They certainly didn't help reduce any stereotypes on transmission.


No one cared was the point.

And they were out for survival not to change minds about "stereotypes of transmission." I have no idea where you are going with this, but we're going to have to disagree about the effect that they had on AIDS awareness in a time when no one cared. It's something important to me and it's just pissing me off.

Hugs.
 
krypt0nian said:
No one cared was the point.

And they were out for survival not to change minds about "stereotypes of transmission." I have no idea where you are going with this, but we're going to have to disagree about the effect that they had on AIDS awareness in a time when no one cared. It's something important to me and it's just pissing me off.

Hugs.

Hugs.
 
speculawyer said:
Iran-Contra
Amnesty
Negotiated with terrorists.
Cut & ran from Muslims
Saved social security through tax hikes.
Wanted to get rid of all nuclear weapons
Ran up a bigger debt than EVERY PRESIDENT BEFORE HIM COMBINED.

If GOPers had good memories, they wouldn't like him so much.


In this video, Noam Chomsky comments on the deification of Reagan.

"Kim Il-Sung would be proud" LOL

"Took the nation from largest creditor to largest debtor nation in the world".

http://www.democracynow.org/2011/2/17/democracy_uprising_in_the_usa_
 
Here is my top 16:

Washington
T Roosevelt
Lincoln
Jefferson
Reagan
Truman
F Roosevelt
Eisenhower
Jackson
Polk
Adams
Monroe
Madison
Kennedy
Cleveland
Wilson

16 is a strange number but these are pretty much the only Presidents worth mentioning, imo.
 
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