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Gamasutra article on making games for PSN, from GDC
- Thread starter gofreak
- Start date
SolidSnakex
Member
Shard said:
There really hasn't been any PSN game announcements in awhile. Like I said it's very possible that Sony's holding back until their May show, and that goes for the 3rd parties also.
I mean you bring up Pipe Mania that isn't coming to PSN, but ignore something like N+ which the developers want to be on PSN because of the freedom but they can't do it right now do to a contract they have with MS.
dallow_bg said:
Well, that would be a bit shortsighted since Capcom also delivered the much better Puzzle Fighter to both platforms last year (well, kinda) and is delivering games like Super Street Fighter 2 and Bionic Commando Rearmed (which is doing a excellent job of taking advantage of the superior features of the PSN by the way) Rocketmen was just a shit move by Capcom all both sides, but this sort of thing is endemic to all platforms, you get the bad with the good.
This is material from GDC, just a couple of weeks ago. How much of what Eden discuss was fully in place before that? I think what we can say at this point is that Eden's presentation should clearly put a stake in the ground for the date after which we really should start to see more 3rd parties supporting the PSN, since the infrastructure Eden presented seems pretty developer-friendly overall. So if the situation doesn't start to change now, then something's definitely rotten.Shard said:
oldergamer said:
Console apologist.......
Its like bc your a fan of a console it binds you of being critical of that platform. Nothing Sony does is bad and everything they release is a triple AAA title.
Bull shit.
Im with shard, PSN is shit with sprinkles of hope. I love the fact that they are trying to do different things with the space but the framework is crap for console owners and third party publishers.
I love you Tanod, but your weekly threads are depressing. Its been a year now and sony is still fooling around with that space, its easy to spit rehtoric about an open platform and advantages with royalties but despite the fact there is nothing really to show for it. How do I know what games are good, when that isn't propperly communicated to the owner.
SolidSnakex
Member
pswii60 said:
Probably because MS got to them first. It's not as if every single developer is going to come to the platform.
SolidSnakex
Member
kaching said:
You're missing my point, i'm not talking about games being released, i'm talking about games being announced. And they very much do hold back games for announcements and when they'll be shown. It's why we didn't get that Motorstorm 2 trailer this week.
McBradders
NeoGAF: my new HOME
Also, staggered releases by territory?
Really?
Really?
Really?
Really?
McBradders said:
Well, to be fair, all of the downloadable services have this, VC, XBLA (Johnnyram has been railing for years about how Japan gets the short end of the stick), PSN, and I suspect WiiWare. It is a problem on all platforms, but I would say it is worst on the PSN.
Cromulent_Word
Member
Because both platforms REALLY want exclusives, and make it part of the contract negotiation phase.pswii60 said:
people here seem to be completely oblivious to business realities - XBLA generates far greater revenue (by a multiplier of at least 2) than PSN presently. One year ago, this multiplier was probably 5x. Why doesnt PSN have TONS of games - because 8months ago everyone saw the revenues being generated by even shitty XBLA games and pushed MS super hard. You will start to see much more PSN content now the XBLA has changed royalty structure for indys who want to self-publish, as well as now that the growth on PS3/PSN numbers look quite good.
I could talk for another hour, but there are clear, simple business reasons why XBLA gets more content, and exclusive content. And there are reasons why we will see this start to change as 2008 moves onward.
ps. the $1200 unit is a test kit, not a dev kit. there are significant differences.
McBradders
NeoGAF: my new HOME
Shard said:
Sure, there are -some- discrepancies, but nowhere near the same kind as on PSN.
How long was Europe waiting for Riff: Everyday Shooter?
How long was PSN in general waiting for the PES demo?
I'm amazed that people can really praise PSN with a straight face.
"It's free" and "make accounts for other territories" are not reasonable counter-arguments.
commariodore64
Member
h3ro said:
Wow - quite the opposite for me - I don't think there is enough to dl on PSN to reverse the situation... Bomberman LIVE, RezHD, SSFIIHD, PacMan Championship Ed, Geometry Wars, Hexic, TMNT Arcade, Sega Vintage, SHUMPS galoreall get played a ton in my home. I think I have about 50+ games and over 60+ demos dl's, not to mention I pretty much rent movies via XBL now as well.
PSN I have PAIN, Calling all Cars, Rampage, Everyday Shooter, FLOW... and movie trailers...
SolidSnakex
Member
kaching said:
I know, I was just giving an example of a game they're holding back for a specific time when they're ready to show it. I mean do people really think that the only PSN games they have in development right now are the ones announced? They obviously have more just like they have more PS3 games that they just aren't ready to publicly announce. And i'd imagine the same goes for 3rd party developers, although obviously no one can say for sure.
I'd say if their May show and E3 comes and goes without any big announcements then it might make sense to start worrying about what's going on with PSN. But they haven't announced anything in quite awhile for it.
commariodore64 said:
To be fair, SSFII HD is on both. I'll be picking it up for PSN how ever (that 360 D-pad arghh). I never said that there wasn't content on XBL, there is some awesome stuff and I love the fact that nearly every game has a demo, in fact, thats pretty much all that is on my Elite's drive. I just prefer saving some money via game sharing on PSN.
commariodore64
Member
Actually the 'Arcade' games on live arcade only make up about 10 titles - this point is very overstated... **goes back to playing RezHD**sprocket said:
An interesting tidbit in this presentation was the fact that PSP downloads are limited to 1.8 gig, the max size of a UMD. I'd almost hope that's a hint that Sony is gearing for some simultaneous download/retail releases for the PSP, but given that PSP's download situation is even more anemic than PS3's, I guess I won't be holding my breath.
commariodore64
Member
SSFII HD is available NOW on LIVE - not the new remake - but the Arcade version...h3ro said:
McBradders
NeoGAF: my new HOME
commariodore64 said:
BEATEN
commariodore64
Member
RezHD is definately indicative of a trend - the 'FroggerHD' games have been few and far between in the last year (thankfully). I don't find the 'set' limiting - over 130 games to choose from and play demos of before buying?sprocket said:
commariodore64
Member
I beleive that is how it is titled 'HD' - but I did add an S on accident - apologies....McBradders said:
jetpacks was yes
Member
Avrum said:
Where'd you hear that?
There's a clear distinction between not announcing a game until it's ready and deliberately withholding announcements for the sake of an event. Historically, the latter is not really the approach they've taken with most PSN games which get less fanfare in the first place. And third parties participating in such a coordinated blackout would typically only be the closest business partners with Sony, not the entire lot of them.SolidSnakex said:
Further, withholding the majority of game announcements until an event in May would basically mean none of these games are coming out before that and likely if they're not coming out before May, they're then more likely to be bunched up towards the holiday season. So it would create a huge vaccuum of very little released before that.
Finally, another point Eden made in his presentation is that they're always looking for PS Blog content, which included announcements. So...let it go.
SolidSnakex
Member
kaching said:There's a clear distinction between not announcing a game until it's ready and deliberately withholding announcements for the sake of an event. Historically, the latter is not really the approach they've taken with most PSN games which get less fanfare in the first place. And third parties participating in such a coordinated blackout would typically only be the closest business partners with Sony, not the entire lot of them.
Further, withholding the majority of game announcements until an event in May would basically mean none of these games are coming out before that and likely if they're not coming out before May, they're then more likely to be bunched up towards the holiday season. So it would create a huge vaccuum of very little released before that.
Finally, another point Eden made in his presentation is that they're always looking for PS Blog content, which included announcements. So...let it go.
So then what do you think is going on? Do you think they just don't have any other games coming aside from the ones already announced? Because unless they're holding things back, as i've been suggesting, then they must not have anything else.
I think what's going on is basically as Cromulent_Word suggested above. Sony simply didn't have as much leverage as MS had with XBLA until recently. The development pool you're typically dealing with for XBLA/PSN/VC type releases is going to generally consist of much smaller developers who are less likely to have the resources to consider simultaneous multiplatform support, so they're more likely to enter into exclusive contracts because that's basically all they can manage in the first place.
Combined with that, you've got Sony's appointed head of 1st party PSN development (Hight) expressing his desire to take the slow boat to content production. So I don't think there's any big restraining order on game announcements, it's just a very slow start.
Combined with that, you've got Sony's appointed head of 1st party PSN development (Hight) expressing his desire to take the slow boat to content production. So I don't think there's any big restraining order on game announcements, it's just a very slow start.
Vast Inspiration
Banned
What I don't understand is why people so easily champion BIG, FULL-GAME downloads on PSN or XBLA?
Who cares? Those games can just as easily be sold on Blu-Ray or DVD. If PSN wasn't there, you'd get you're Warhawk and Socom and Tekken: DR on Blu-Ray.
It's the small, fun, and addictive games that people turn to these services for, and while Sony has some really great stuff. XBLA has about 4 times the amount of "really great stuff". So yes, the point of issue for the people is that Sony isn't doing enough to attract smaller developers to make their games for PSN.
Who cares? Those games can just as easily be sold on Blu-Ray or DVD. If PSN wasn't there, you'd get you're Warhawk and Socom and Tekken: DR on Blu-Ray.
It's the small, fun, and addictive games that people turn to these services for, and while Sony has some really great stuff. XBLA has about 4 times the amount of "really great stuff". So yes, the point of issue for the people is that Sony isn't doing enough to attract smaller developers to make their games for PSN.
I'll be writing an editorial about this for GameSetWatch at some point - hopefully this weekend - but the issue is that a lot of the 'indie' stuff on PSN is first-party titles, run through John Hight and Santa Monica. Though they are indie, Sony works with them very closely, and in some cases even owns the IP.
The actual 'third party' stuff is meant to be run through Sony in Foster City and a different division, and I've heard anecdotally that it's not that hot from a process/getting stuff done point of view. Which makes sense, given that the amount of third party games published through PSN is VERY small right now, if you don't count SOE stuff.
So imagine if XBLA 'first party' (which is what 'self-published' games like N run through) only published about a game a month or less, and there was no easy way for third-parties for THQ and Sierra to publish - or at least, the pipeline wasn't fully functioning. That's what is happening for PSN right now.
The actual 'third party' stuff is meant to be run through Sony in Foster City and a different division, and I've heard anecdotally that it's not that hot from a process/getting stuff done point of view. Which makes sense, given that the amount of third party games published through PSN is VERY small right now, if you don't count SOE stuff.
So imagine if XBLA 'first party' (which is what 'self-published' games like N run through) only published about a game a month or less, and there was no easy way for third-parties for THQ and Sierra to publish - or at least, the pipeline wasn't fully functioning. That's what is happening for PSN right now.
Cromulent_Word
Member
people completely missed the fact that this TEST KIT and Phyre are ONLY for sony licensed devs.methane47 said:
sorry folks, but this is not a public/indy thing here.
PSN policies hasn't changed that much since the start, as in that it's been what Eden has presented to "the public" is nothing new. The fact that devs weren't all signing up to PSN had a lot to do with combination of strong X360 user base at start of PS3's life and all the doubts about the success of PS3 at its early stage. Furthermore, MS offers better and easier development environment. All the factors together makes XBL a much more attractive platform for projects with small budgets/indie devs. Since PS3 is finally showing momentum and Sony is smoothing out rough edges, the situation will start to improve.