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Game demos halve sales. Uh oh.
- Thread starter statham
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Robert at Zeboyd Games
Banned
I'm trying to think of a single instance where I bought a game based on liking the demo and coming up blank. I can however think of many instances where I decided to not buy a game I was thinking about buying after playing the demo.
You're talking about something entirely different from playable game demos. Halo 2's E3 "demo" was a presentation, not a playable trial of the game. It was more akin to an extended trailer with a UI attached to it than something that was supposed to give the average player a sense of how the game played, and it was a waste of time and money because none of that shit ever actually made it into the game.
Having to cease production partway through the development cycle to throw together some bullshit for an E3 stage that has nothing to do with what's going to actually be in your game? Yeah, of course that's bad.
Putting out a playable, downloadable demo, when the game is finished and is about to go (or already has gone) gold, that gives players an accurate idea of what the finished product will be like? That's not a significant drain on resources.
Calavera520
Member
What an idiotic study. Shitty demos dissuade people from purchasing. It's happened to me. Great demos motivate purchases. I didn't give a fuck about red faction guerrilla but after I played the demo a million times it was suddenly my first priority. I preordered and was checking online all the time for any new details. Same with that gaijin Apache game. Demos are great for games like that, things I normally wouldn't be interested in.
Shalashaska161
Member
It's not like demo's are wholly representative of games all the time either. Remember the Brutal Legends demo? Ended up nothing like the full game. The end goal of a demo is to sell the game, and so dev's are going to represent their game in the best way possible, even if that doesn't give a full view of their game.
People on forums are going to go around shitting on games and developers no matter what happens. Providing demo's isn't going to stop that. The only difference is instead of buying the game and then shitting on it the person plays the demo and shits on it. Which sounds better to you from a developer perspective?
And in an industry as cut throat as this one, is it really a good idea to worry a lot about garnering good will for your next game when you have a game out there right now on store shelves that you need to sell to stay in business?
Once again, why would you limit sales to people who only are going to like your game? The same people that liked the game will be in that larger sample anyways. Those people aren't just going to bail next time if they liked the previous game.
Like I said, demo's are great for consumers since we get to see if something is worth buying or not. But the AAA gaming industry is one that feeds off hype to get sales, and demo's are often counter-productive to that end.
freeofgreed
Member
This. I was never interested in the Fire emblem series or TRPG's in general, but I downloaded the demo on a whim, and I loved it, so not only i'am I going to get that game, but I'am also looking into other games of the genre.
Neuromancer
Member
I had interest otherwise I wouldn't even have bothered with the demos. I doubt I had made up my mind to buy any of them at the time.
I think bad demos absolutely positively have a negative effect on game sales, as well they should, but I just can't see how good demos would.
Game demos rarely make sense unless it's a very simple concept, I remember a particularly bitchin' demo for Crash Bandicoot Warped. They don't really work for modern games where the first hour is a tutorial. YouTube is better than a demo since someone might actually be playing a fun part.
Sounds like a flaw in gamedesign if people have to be bored for an hour first.
ElectricBlanketFire
Member
Nearly every demo I've played where I enjoy the game has resulted in a full purchase.
Vice versa for those I did not enjoy.
Vice versa for those I did not enjoy.
That hour is hopefully building toward something greater. it's not necessarily "boring." It's boring if it's the totality of your experience, as a demo is. Imagine a movie "demo" where they presented 15 random minutes of exposition.
Red Blaster
Member
except i didn't buy nba 2k12 because i didn't like the changes they made from 2k11 and i'd have no way of knowing if i didn't extensively play the demo
whoops there goes your point
That's a completely separate issue. There's a small minority of games for which the demo is not representative of the final game. That doesn't invalidate the vast, vast majority of games for which a demo will give you a pretty accurate idea of what to expect.
No, bullshit. People don't, as a matter of course, "shit on" games based only on the demo. People might be critical, and the initial reaction immediately after playing the demo might be pretty intense, but people don't carry it around with them. If people don't like a game's demo, you'll tend to hear them say "I tried the demo and it really didn't grab me", or "I really didn't like the demo". You don't often hear, "I tried the demo and this game is a total pile of shit. Fuck you, [developer]."
When people have that kind of emotional reaction to a game, there's a reason for it. And a pretty good reason is "I spent $60 on this game and didn't have any fun with it." It's not the only possible reason, and there are a number of reasons that a demo won't do anything to help with. Nobody ever hated a game because it released a (properly representative) demo.
And of course it matters that you foster good will and a sense of respect toward your audience. It's fucking insane to think that it doesn't matter. If you need to sell copies of your game to stay in business, and the only way you can sell enough copies to do that is to trick people into buying a game that they don't like, then what the fuck are you going to do next time, when you need to sell enough copies of your next game to stay in business? Try to find a different batch of people to trick into buying your next game? How long is that going to work before you run out of people who are willing to buy your game, sight unseen? And what happens if you actually release a good game, only half the audience who would have liked it still feels too burned by your previous games to ever give you that kind of support again? Devouring the future to sustain the present is never going to result in long-term success.
If you can't stay afloat with your current business model without pulling the wool over the eyes of your audience, then you need to scale down your operation and make games that are small enough that your core audience can sustain you. Build yourself up the honest way, and you won't have to feel like you need to disrespect your audience just to stay alive.
You should limit sales, as much as possible, to people who like your game, because then you actually know how many people are loyal fans. You have meaningful information to work with, regarding your fanbase. And when you make your next game, you can make a realistic budget, and set realistic sales expectations, knowing the approximate size of your core, loyal audience. You'll be able to keep those people for years, across a number of titles, and you'll have a stable, reliable income stream, so that you're not betting the farm with every game, hinging your entire company on not only being able to match, but to exceed the sales of your previous game, in a cycle of perpetual growth that is inherently, inevitably, and always unsustainable.
If you sell your game to anyone and everyone who you can possibly convince to buy it, whether or not they'll actually like the game, then you are at a distinct disadvantage for your next game because you have useless information - or even worse than useless information, you can have information that is completely misleading. You can't budget for your next game based on how many people bought your last game, because for all you know, a third of the people who bought it thought it was a pile of shit, and just won't be there for the next game. You don't know if those people will be more vocal, or more persuasive, than the people who actually liked the game, which could further depress sales. Your only option is to really crank up the marketing machine, and to try to keep even more of your game out of the hands of your prospective audience, and to just hope that you can trick as many or more people as you did with the last game. What you end up creating for yourself is a volatile business model, with no steady ground to stand on, driven by business practices that are inherently unsustainable, and which alienate more and more people with ever release.
People notice the difference between a company that treats them with some amount of respect, and a company that treats them as a walking bag of money to be exploited. And those feelings don't often manifest themselves in a noticeable way over the course of one or two game releases, but over time they build up a lot of inertia. If you build up a loyal fanbase who feels respected, they will stay loyal for quite a while, even if you stumble or go through a few hard years. And if you make people feel as though they're nothing to you but a purse to be raided, then they're going to let you fall, hard, as soon as you make any sort of mistake.
RpgN
Junior Member
Huh? There have been MANY examples where I tried a demo out, knowing nothing about the games or hardly knowing anything, and then buying the games afterwards straight away. Zelda the Windwaker, Metroid Prime, Valkyria Chronicles, Rhythm Thief, Theatrhythm Final Fantasy, Kingdom Hearts 3D, Mirrors Edge, Soul Sacrifice, Virtua Tennis 4, Little Big Planet, Infamous, Mutant Blobs Attack, Dokuro etc. etc.
There are demos of series that I am curious to try out and end up liking them and wanting to get into them.
Of course there are demos of games that weren't my type or ones that sucked as well. But then we return to the whole good games sell, bad games die.
I feel like demos introduced me to new games that I'd have otherwise skipped on them often enough, that my purchases of unknown games would decrease if there were no demos. I don't buy new games easily without either making tons of research, trying a demo or buying them for a cheap price. Demos secure me buying good games day 1 instead of waiting for them to drop in price for not knowing for certain wether they're good.
Sales might be affected in the short run If there are companies out there who hope to manipulate their consumers to buy bad games without demos. This doesn't last though. Word of mouth will bite them in the arse eventually. As a company, your first job is try to make a good game along with a good demo. It's becoming really odd how companies are thinking things such as demos, used games and what else is cancer to them.
However, I do undestand gamers might not buy a full game if a demo has a lot of content in it or if a demo might not be the right representation for the full game. In that case, companies should know how to balance their games and not give too much. I love how certain demos allow you to carry over your saves to the full game. This helps RPGs to have better demos that are longer, enough to make you understand the mechanics better. Soul Sacrifice comes to mind. They should explore more such options that fits certain games better.
There are demos of series that I am curious to try out and end up liking them and wanting to get into them.
Of course there are demos of games that weren't my type or ones that sucked as well. But then we return to the whole good games sell, bad games die.
I feel like demos introduced me to new games that I'd have otherwise skipped on them often enough, that my purchases of unknown games would decrease if there were no demos. I don't buy new games easily without either making tons of research, trying a demo or buying them for a cheap price. Demos secure me buying good games day 1 instead of waiting for them to drop in price for not knowing for certain wether they're good.
Sales might be affected in the short run If there are companies out there who hope to manipulate their consumers to buy bad games without demos. This doesn't last though. Word of mouth will bite them in the arse eventually. As a company, your first job is try to make a good game along with a good demo. It's becoming really odd how companies are thinking things such as demos, used games and what else is cancer to them.
However, I do undestand gamers might not buy a full game if a demo has a lot of content in it or if a demo might not be the right representation for the full game. In that case, companies should know how to balance their games and not give too much. I love how certain demos allow you to carry over your saves to the full game. This helps RPGs to have better demos that are longer, enough to make you understand the mechanics better. Soul Sacrifice comes to mind. They should explore more such options that fits certain games better.
OldAsUrSock
Banned
They came for the pirates, but I was not a pirate. They came for used game, but I did not buy used games. Now they have come for demos.
I don't know if I'm unusual in this, but I've already reached a point where I will virtually never buy a game at full price if I haven't already played it, whether that be a demo or rental.
For me the only two exceptions to this rule are:
1) It's from a developer I trust completely.
2) It's on sale for a crazy low price and I'm mildly interested.
And there are several games from the past gen that I was convinced to buy because of the demo: Bayonetta, Heavy Rain, Mirror's Edge, etc, and many more because of rentals.
I don't know how many other people hold to the "try before you buy" rule though. I for one just can't drop $60 on a game at first sight.
For me the only two exceptions to this rule are:
1) It's from a developer I trust completely.
2) It's on sale for a crazy low price and I'm mildly interested.
And there are several games from the past gen that I was convinced to buy because of the demo: Bayonetta, Heavy Rain, Mirror's Edge, etc, and many more because of rentals.
I don't know how many other people hold to the "try before you buy" rule though. I for one just can't drop $60 on a game at first sight.
NullPointer
Member
Any conversion numbers on XBLA games that can be instantly activated within the game?
I wonder how much a difference it would make if the big games took the same approach and could be digitally activated instantly.
I have to admit though, few demos that I've played have done a decent job showcasing the final game. Most are too short or focus on the wrong areas of the game or are filled with artificial constraints the full games don't have.
I wonder how much a difference it would make if the big games took the same approach and could be digitally activated instantly.
I have to admit though, few demos that I've played have done a decent job showcasing the final game. Most are too short or focus on the wrong areas of the game or are filled with artificial constraints the full games don't have.
CosmicQueso
Member
SapientWolf
Trucker Sexologist
One thing that I've wondered is if a bad game with no demo will gather more negative comments than a bad demo, regardless of the quality of the final game. It's hard to quantify bad word of mouth but it's something worth considering.