THANK you. I thought the world had gone mad for a minute.
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Game Grumps (aka Egoraptor plays some games)
- Thread starter Poyunch
- Start date
THANK you. I thought the world had gone mad for a minute.
Lionel Mandrake
Member
*Shrug*
All I know, is that I was never able to beat SMB 1-3. Super Mario World took me weeks. NSMB I beat in three sittings.
Nocturnowl
Member
I thought the arguments were mostly flimsy, whatever valid points they bring up are immediately lost behind a bunch of ranting ones that don't hold much weight.
Essentially something along the lines of "see back in SMW each world was unique and there was like a forest, now it's just a grass world!" they say as they trot through the earliest stages of world 1 that's themed on grass but does include other themes anyway, to their credit maybe they mean how in the early stages of SMW Yoshi's Island 2 was a forest stage adding variety to the opening world as opposed to meaning the forest of illusion stages much later on but typically SMW doesn't branch out much in stage themes at all, SMW being the Mario game with three areas themed around the basic overworld and two cave worlds in particular. NSMBWii could definitely use more stage themes but using SMW as a counterpoint is a bad example.
They praise the dolphin level in world for it's unique map position apparently in the ocean when it's like a literally a small circle of water above vanilla dome that sticks out like a sore thumb and that stage is pretty damn bare bones, it is just a bunch of dolphins jumping around and a stalker pufferfish, then the following stage they play in NSMB is the first water stage, an introductory one at that with a position on the map reflecting it's going to be a water stage (hey just like SMW!). I much prefer the SMW map myself but it's just like their flinging out as many bizarre reasons as possible to try and strengthen the legitimate gripes which instead to me just comes off as petty complaints for the sake of it.
And about difficulty, SMW isn't that much harder guys, you were younger back then. That said NSMB Wii does tend to lob items at the player, though for four players that's probably a good thing. NSMBWii is the easier game but it's not that dumbed down, now NSMB on the DS, that entry is the one worthy of such criticism.
Then there's the Yoshi side rant, I can't say I felt SMW level design was entirely based around the dinosaur at all times but it apparently was! yet in NSMBWii Yoshi only appears in around 5 stages in which he benefits the player, 1-3 is clearly based around his ability to turn projectiles back on the enemies but I guess they missed that point.
At this rate they should've just played DKCR or Rayman instead.
...or Bonanza Bros, it needs to happen.
Essentially something along the lines of "see back in SMW each world was unique and there was like a forest, now it's just a grass world!" they say as they trot through the earliest stages of world 1 that's themed on grass but does include other themes anyway, to their credit maybe they mean how in the early stages of SMW Yoshi's Island 2 was a forest stage adding variety to the opening world as opposed to meaning the forest of illusion stages much later on but typically SMW doesn't branch out much in stage themes at all, SMW being the Mario game with three areas themed around the basic overworld and two cave worlds in particular. NSMBWii could definitely use more stage themes but using SMW as a counterpoint is a bad example.
They praise the dolphin level in world for it's unique map position apparently in the ocean when it's like a literally a small circle of water above vanilla dome that sticks out like a sore thumb and that stage is pretty damn bare bones, it is just a bunch of dolphins jumping around and a stalker pufferfish, then the following stage they play in NSMB is the first water stage, an introductory one at that with a position on the map reflecting it's going to be a water stage (hey just like SMW!). I much prefer the SMW map myself but it's just like their flinging out as many bizarre reasons as possible to try and strengthen the legitimate gripes which instead to me just comes off as petty complaints for the sake of it.
And about difficulty, SMW isn't that much harder guys, you were younger back then. That said NSMB Wii does tend to lob items at the player, though for four players that's probably a good thing. NSMBWii is the easier game but it's not that dumbed down, now NSMB on the DS, that entry is the one worthy of such criticism.
Then there's the Yoshi side rant, I can't say I felt SMW level design was entirely based around the dinosaur at all times but it apparently was! yet in NSMBWii Yoshi only appears in around 5 stages in which he benefits the player, 1-3 is clearly based around his ability to turn projectiles back on the enemies but I guess they missed that point.
At this rate they should've just played DKCR or Rayman instead.
...or Bonanza Bros, it needs to happen.
These NSMBWii LPs are going to frustrate me as much as Secret of Mana LPs did, I know it.
Also, Bowser can be killed with the Fire Flower in SMB1 and 3. He is the way he's supposed to be since day one, though to be fair the bosses were pretty easy when up against a Fire Flower-Mario in NSMB DS. They fixed it with the Wii version by making it much weaker against the bosses.
Some of the complaints are legit - Yoshi was a gameplay element that Miyamoto wanted ever since SMB1, whereas nowadays it's mostly a nostalgia-tickling trick to bring Yoshi back - but a lot of it is just nitpicking for the sake of being... well, Grumps.
Also, Bowser can be killed with the Fire Flower in SMB1 and 3. He is the way he's supposed to be since day one, though to be fair the bosses were pretty easy when up against a Fire Flower-Mario in NSMB DS. They fixed it with the Wii version by making it much weaker against the bosses.
Some of the complaints are legit - Yoshi was a gameplay element that Miyamoto wanted ever since SMB1, whereas nowadays it's mostly a nostalgia-tickling trick to bring Yoshi back - but a lot of it is just nitpicking for the sake of being... well, Grumps.
Riposte
Member
I'm thinking game grumps will have peaked with Goof Troop, which truly had some fantastic moments. Slowly, but surely they are becoming annoying or stale to me(which is inevitable unless they really step up the level of the conversation), especially JonTron. Jon comes off as like... the worst kind of NeoGAF poster in the way he obsessed with Nintendo games and "soul" and "innovation".
Unless I'm remembering wrong NSMBWii had some pretty cool bosses. Good game in general.
Unless I'm remembering wrong NSMBWii had some pretty cool bosses. Good game in general.
ZeroGravity
Member
But that doesn't make them bad games, which they (particularly JonTron) seem to paint them as.
The point of the NSMB games is that they're stripped-down, back-to-the-basics 2-D Mario platforming, with a ton of little nods and mechanics lifted from the classic Mario games. Are they entirely up to the standard of the classic games? No, but they're still the same tight, fun platformers they always have been. The fact that they don't do anything drastically different or innovative shouldn't be a knock against the games because that's not their purpose. We have other Mario games (in recent years, Galaxy and 3D Land) that are doing new and different things with the franchise. These games are supposed to be simple call-backs to the original games.
Now, would I blame anyone for liking the style and design of Super Mario Bros 3 or Super Mario World over New Super Mario Bros? Of course not, but at the same time, I'm not going to hold it against these games either.
The notion that the NSMB games are all the same anyway does ring a bit hollow when they're both playing the first ever co-operative Mario game together. It may not be a huge change, but it's damn enjoyable and I don't get why they've spent two whole videos now knocking these games for not being SMB3/SMW instead of actually trying to have fun with the game.
KirbYuuYuu
Member
Because the games practically feel like they're trying to be SMB3/W by doing these throwbacks at it? I mean, they're not bad, they're fun, but... that's about it really. I find it problematic when 3 games are back to basics, I'm pretty sure you don't do that with any series, as only the first game is fine for either the foundation or going back to basics. What you're practically saying is that they're meant to be cash ins without much improvements in many areas.
And that's the other thing about the NSMB games, they don't really IMPROVE anything based on past games, it's not really budging, there's a lot of potential to grow in areas that are lackluster, but it hasn't in both NSMBW and 2, and that is what infuriates me about these games.
UltimateIke
Member
I love the Kirby, Mega Man, Zelda, and Goof Troop episodes. Pokemon, Mario, Secret of Mana, and Banjo-Kazooie aren't doing it for me though.
They need to go back to Zelda. I don't know why they started it but ignore it now.
They need to go back to Zelda. I don't know why they started it but ignore it now.
And you've said IM wrong about stuff.
Gentleman Jack
Member
Fire flower could kill Bowser in SMB1 and SMB3 (took more hits here).
NSMB Wii always felt like a cross between old school mario and a party game. The collisions between the players always fucked up what could be a very elegant platforming experience. It's like a much, much better version of Little Big Planet than any kind of sequel to the tight, slick flow in SMB/SMW.
Getting kind of tired of Jon Tron here. My major problem with him is that he obsesses over the N64, for better or for worse. Him freaking the fuck out when Ego said Zelda 64 was NOT a 10/10 game (hint; it's not) was just further proof.
His lack of 8 and 16 bit experience and his inability to view those games in the mindset of what they were when they came out makes me not enjoy his commentary at all.
Plus he gets super defensive about the littlest of things.
His lack of 8 and 16 bit experience and his inability to view those games in the mindset of what they were when they came out makes me not enjoy his commentary at all.
Plus he gets super defensive about the littlest of things.
Metal Gear?!
Member
NSMB was back to basics.
NSMB Wii actually extended the series far beyond where it had ever gone before with 4 player simultaneous coop.
NSMB U adds a 5th player on the touchscreen to that with the ability to grief the other players immeasurably.
It's NSMB 2 that isn't doing anything really new and is the cash in. Well it has the coin collecting score attack stuff, but nothing new that anyone here actually seems to value.
KirbYuuYuu
Member
So how is it improving where NSMB games lack in, and haven't improved where they left off at even in it's older games? And multiplayer is rather frustrating since later levels aren't well designed for 4 players?
Professor Beef
Banned
Tron is barely in his 20s. I wouldn't be shocked if OoT was his first game.
Gentleman Jack
Member
I don't think the final castle/boss fight are even possible unless 3/4 players are bubble cheesing it while the most skilled player avoids the obstacles with a propeller suit.
Lionel Mandrake
Member
GAF hates fun.
Crash Station
Member
DICKS AHOY
Banned
I don't see why you can't simultaneously see a game as being very safe and sterile while also finding it very well made and fun. I thought NSMBW was great, but I don't see how I'm "missing the point" of the game if I were to point out every feature I liked about it was just cobbled together from previous, more daring entries.
That song will go in the Mario museum of great songs throughout history. So good.
It's the one thing that I like to give Sonic over Mario(outside of SMG, of course). Sonic seems to be willing to play off nostalgia but also go fucking nuts with their music. Most of the Mario music of the last few years, and even Zelda for that matter, play it real safe. Which, I'm sure someone can make a case for a 'classic reprisal' like NSMB, but it's like Star Wars. Yeah, the music is great, but I'd like you to do a drastically different song in that same thematic.
Lord British
Member
In my humble opinion, it's the second best 2D Mario, beating out World. But we're talking about the difference between Incredibly Good and Amazingly Good, so... don't kill me.
I think that criticisms of NSMB Wii generally relate to it not being as good as a game that its detractors played as a kid, have memorised and made legend, and near enough burned the levels into their retinas.
SMB3 and World are both over twenty years old. NSMB Wii will never be those games, and cannot reasonably be judged on the same criteria. For many, many people, the Wii is their NES, and NSMB Wii is their Mario 3. And, honestly, it's a pretty friggin' great game.
FFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU-
That's actually the song that got stuck in my head initially, so it don't make much difference to me. 
Lord British
Member
I don't really understand this as a criticism. The NSMB series is a revisit of the 2D Mario tropes for a new audience, originally the DS generation and then the Wii.
It's all well and good to criticise the game based on its familiarity to older games, but bear in mind that to the lion's share of the audience this stuff is fresh. The Mario/platforming hardcore surely comprise only a tiny sector of the audience?
Jawmuncher
Member
Sad but true.
Haunted
Member
It might even have the best level design out of the three.
Nope, in fact, the level design took a hit in New Super Mario Bros Wii because it had to be designed around 4-player game mechanics. The level design is quite a bit broader and indeed blander due to this.
Haunted
Member
I've said this after the first couple videos. This brand of humour (loud, in your face, a lot of infectious laughing) is not something you can sustain for a long period of time without substance. Substance Egoraptor could easily provide with his knowledge and interests in game design, but JonTron doesn't, so it can never go anywhere.
True, in parts. The bonus levels are more devious than anything I've played in other 2D Marios, though. It might not have the same strong average across all levels, but it does have the highest peaks, imo.
Sir, I take umbrage with this comment! I am 23 and had both an NES and an SNES!
Demon Lizardman
Banned
Boring game my ass, they need to give it another shot, clearly they jumped to conclusions because I have not seen another video since.
EmCeeGramr
Member
I'm actually pretty sure the only levels in the game "designed around 4 player mechanics" are a couple in the first world (namely the first level, which is the "broadest" and emptiest level in the game, which makes sense considering the "design the first level first" philosophy of the Mario games) and maybe a few of the later ones that involve riding on things. The rest are all ridiculously un-four player friendly, which is part of why the game is so crazy in co-op.
Are you really jontron? :
The Real Abed
Perma-Junior
Why don't you create one, Fafa?
I'm too busy playing ping pong.
KeeSomething
Banned
They've mentioned how NSMB Wii is fun, but "that's it." Weird statement, which Egoraptor laughs at, but JonTron explains himself. They are fun, but offer nothing new or better than the Mario games they are copy and pasting from.
The NSMB games aren't bad, but the yearly installments reminds me of something like Madden. NSMB games are lazy, factory produced games with absolutely no soul. I mean, just look at the gameplay and even graphical changes from Super Mario Bros 1 to 3 to World. Now... look at all four NSMB games.
And I can honestly say that I never really found NSMB or NSMB Wii compelling. I wish the games were more like DKCR in the sense that you can tell where the inspiration comes from, and the basic idea is the same, but DKCR goes beyond the limitations of the SNES games--something the NSMB games really refuse to do (unless you count the virtually unplayable co-op).
EmCeeGramr
Member
NSMB and NSMB Wii came out 3 years apart from each other. NSMB2 and NSMBU are coming out 3 years after Wii.
Professor Beef
Banned
See? YEARLY. Because...they came out during a year...I guess.
EmCeeGramr
Member
It feels way worse than it actually is because of NSMB2 coming out only a couple months before NSMBU, and because they showed off that NSMB-based tech demo that eventually became NSMBU at E3 2011.
They really should have pushed back NSMB2 to freshen it up more and make their new console launch title breathe, but I guess they really wanted to bolster 3DS sales. Now NSMBU, which looks awesome, is going to get burned because so many people just played a Mario game two months before.
They really should have pushed back NSMB2 to freshen it up more and make their new console launch title breathe, but I guess they really wanted to bolster 3DS sales. Now NSMBU, which looks awesome, is going to get burned because so many people just played a Mario game two months before.
Riposte
Member
Two are coming out in the same half... QUARTERLY MARIO
You must be like the funnest guy around.