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Game Grumps (aka Egoraptor plays some games)

Nocturnowl said:
Okay, I love SMW but i'm going to have to call out some points here...

- Streamlined? i'm not even sure what you're getting at here, if anything the more sprawling overworld and bigger focus on secret exits makes it less streamlined than the World Maps of Wii.

- Some of the best level design is right, but arguably both SMB3 and NSMBWii have stronger platforming elements on the whole and thus stronger stages across the board, I feel that sometimes SMW plays around with puzzles and secret exits too much.

- Inferior Bosses is the most puzzling one here to me, SMW has 4 types of Koopaling battles, 3 of which get repeated, Reznor in every fort and Bowser at the end which is a pretty solid fight.
These versus the Koopalings once again, each one has a more unique gimmick to their fight, each Koopaling is battled twice in the tower and castle, the castle tends to take the towers boss gimmick and ramp it up. the 2 Bowser Jr Fights are some of the most varied in 2D Mario and even have you battle in a mini clown car, even Kamek shows up towards the end.
And speaking of the end you've got arguably the best 2D Mario boss of the lot with the giant Bowser chase.
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By "streamlined" I really just mean there's less faffing about with menus and item minigames and such, just pure, blissful platforming. I could play SMW for hours on end when I was younger, but I just can't seem to do that with NSMBW for some reason. Admitedly more of a personal thing, but I thought it was worth mentioning.

I'll agree that SMB3 has better platforming in general (it's the one thing that the game pulled off flawlessly), but there's something about NSMBW's physics and mechanics that makes it seem worse. Plus, the platforming challenge is rendered moot while in multiplayer, considering that you'll be bumping into your friends in midair or at the edge of platforming, sending them plummeting into the abyss, and you can effectively just have one player act as a moving spawn point which when combined with the bubble ability mostly nulls the challenge (except on certain levels).

I honestly never really liked that boss battles in NSMBW (outside the Bowser Jr. ones). The fortress bosses were really vanilla, and their castle variants were often rather gimmicky and sort of forced. It doesn't help that the game's immediate DS predecessor had better and more varied bosses. Also, screw Kamek; I did not enjoy that boss. I liked SMW's sumo-style battles and Reznor showdowns quite a bit; and although I'll concede that the giant Bowser chase was awesome, people put SMW's final boss on "Best Final Boss" lists for a reason.

All in all, no ill will towards anyone; I just prefer SMW as a game and an experience.
 
ScraftyDevil said:
By "streamlined" I really just mean there's less faffing about with menus and item minigames and such, just pure, blissful platforming. I could play SMW for hours on end when I was younger, but I just can't seem to do that with NSMBW for some reason. Admitedly more of a personal thing, but I thought it was worth mentioning.

I'll agree that SMB3 has better platforming in general (it's the one thing that the game pulled off flawlessly), but there's something about NSMBW's physics and mechanics that makes it seem worse. Plus, the platforming challenge is rendered moot while in multiplayer, considering that you'll be bumping into your friends in midair or at the edge of platforming, sending them plummeting into the abyss, and you can effectively just have one player act as a moving spawn point which when combined with the bubble ability mostly nulls the challenge (except on certain levels).

I honestly never really liked that boss battles in NSMBW (outside the Bowser Jr. ones). The fortress bosses were really vanilla, and their castle variants were often rather gimmicky and sort of forced. It doesn't help that the game's immediate DS predecessor had better and more varied bosses. Also, screw Kamek; I did not enjoy that boss. I liked SMW's sumo-style battles and Reznor showdowns quite a bit; and although I'll concede that the giant Bowser chase was awesome, people put SMW's final boss on "Best Final Boss" lists for a reason.

All in all, no ill will towards anyone; I just prefer SMW as a game and an experience.
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-Huh? NWMBWii and NSMBU have the same amount of menus as SMW. Press start, choose a file, go. Item minigames are totally optional and are from SMB3.

-NSMB physics give you less control in the air. Mario has more momentum and platforming requires more skill. If anything multiplayer makes the game harder. It's challenging enough in single player, but with other people getting in the way of eachother and sucking up lives it can become a real clusterfuck.

-SMW's bosses are pretty plain and easy, though. The sumo ones were the only good ones. At least some of NSMBWii's are challenging, like Wendy's and Ludwig's. Bowser Jr's battles really took the franchise to new places with some interesting ideas, and the final battle was one of the most epic things in the franchise.
 
Wiseblade said:
You know what I did immediately after beating New Super Mario Bros. Wii? Play Super Mario Bros. 3 from start to finish. And at the end I said "Yep, 3's still the best." NSMBW is just pedestrian. It's not a bad game, by any means. But it simply isn't gripping to me. 3's levels felt more distinctive and were more enjoyable to play through. It constantly shies away from putting the player in a situation where they actually get to use the tools available.
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I don't know how NSMBWii is SP as I've only played it MP but it's my all time favorite Mario game. I think the U version will take that spot when I'm not fatigued by the New franchise because of it's HDness but I just can't play Mario solo any more. World was my favorite before NSMBWii but now it's lost it's crown for myself.
 
Do we really have to devolve the thread to an Old Mario vs New Mario Nitpick-fest every time Arin and Jon say something you don't agree with? Jeeze.

Here, have some Sophia Lo-Ren and cool down.
 
KojiKnight said:
What? Easily... NSMBW lacks challenge, variety (both in powers and level design), and the additions are mostly gimicks that add little to the game (such as titling your controller to tilt certain platforms).

There is little reward to searching for secrets in NSMBW aside from getting the star coins. In SMB3, for example, you were rewarded for exploring by getting rare items. Nothing was more magical the first time you found a tanuki suit or a hammer bros suit.

In super mario world, your reward for searching levels thoroughly was unlocked whole new levels and eventually in time a whole new world. Do all of that and beat it and then as an even greater bonus you're given an entirely new set of enemy sprites/color scheme to give you more replayability out of the main game!

NSMB series are not bad games, not by a long shot. They are easily some of the best 2D platformers in recent years... but as I said before... to be better than the originals they can't just be really good, and they can't just be "on par" with the games of the past, they have to be BEYOND great.
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I don't know, You say it lacks challenge versus the game with the (fabulously) game breaking Cape and Blue Yoshi? i'll give SMW the tougher secret world (because fuck Tubular) but the main games are pretty equal in both regarding difficulty, even then i'd say Wii ramps up the challenge more towards the end, especially World 8 versus Valley of Bowser.
SMB3 is noticeably trickier than both.

Lacking variety in stage design doesn't sound right either, I don't think NSMB Wii does the same thing twice and it pulls this off with more levels as well, people really look past the unique stages within Wii, it pretty much takes off as soon as you leave World 1 as the Desert has a noticeable diverse set of stages, taking World 8 as an example you'll outrun a deadly smog while rocks rain down, ride a skeletal rollercoaster, swim through a dark cavern illuminated by anglerfish, traverse a cave with tight passages that are at odds with the flow of lava waves, tackle an old fashioned fire bar tower stage, carefully control a tilt platform across a lava sea whilst evading aerial bob-ombs and lava columns, an throwback airship and vertically outpace rising lava.
I don't see how it lacks variety at all, if you mean visually it lacks it's own look but it does actually have a greater visual variety than SMW since each world is focused around a particular theme, putting it on par with SMB3.

The whole secrets thing was carried on by the NSMB series as well, those star coins work towards new stages, secret exits leading to new stages is still a feature, exploration is very much rewarded.

I guess I just don't agree with the idea they have to blow past the umm...past, maybe right now they'll feel weaker for being on the same level but time will ultimately tell where they all fall.
Plus considering the pedestal a lot of older series entries get put on in some cases simply being on their level is probably an accomplishment.

ScraftyDevil said:
By "streamlined" I really just mean there's less faffing about with menus and item minigames and such, just pure, blissful platforming. I could play SMW for hours on end when I was younger, but I just can't seem to do that with NSMBW for some reason. Admitedly more of a personal thing, but I thought it was worth mentioning.

I'll agree that SMB3 has better platforming in general (it's the one thing that the game pulled off flawlessly), but there's something about NSMBW's physics and mechanics that makes it seem worse. Plus, the platforming challenge is rendered moot while in multiplayer, considering that you'll be bumping into your friends in midair or at the edge of platforming, sending them plummeting into the abyss, and you can effectively just have one player act as a moving spawn point which when combined with the bubble ability mostly nulls the challenge (except on certain levels).

I honestly never really liked that boss battles in NSMBW (outside the Bowser Jr. ones). The fortress bosses were really vanilla, and their castle variants were often rather gimmicky and sort of forced. It doesn't help that the game's immediate DS predecessor had better and more varied bosses. Also, screw Kamek; I did not enjoy that boss. I liked SMW's sumo-style battles and Reznor showdowns quite a bit; and although I'll concede that the giant Bowser chase was awesome, people put SMW's final boss on "Best Final Boss" lists for a reason.

All in all, no ill will towards anyone; I just prefer SMW as a game and an experience.
Click to expand...
Couldn't you just like not play the completely optional minigames? aside from them there's not exactly any other distractions between stages or menus to contend with aside from the SMB3 style power up menu if it's needed.
Platforming challenges only become moot in Multiplayer if you can't get in sync with other players, it's not as if the games forcing you to go bubble blitzing through stages, I mean if that's your way to handle multiplayer then the games not at fault there (aside from the previously mentioned multiplayer unfriendly stages), if anything the challenge only heads up with more players.
I've played NSMB with the combination of co-op and counter op, in straight up 2 player team work, it can work both ways.
No point heading down the physics path, it's all subjective (or at least more subjective than any other point), though it certainly doesn't make the platforming worse by any stretch unless getting cold feet mid jump and trying to head back is a common occurrence for you.
I feel the addition of extra moves from SM64 are sort of underrated, that stuff is great, wall kicks/jumps are never not great.

I mean yeah it's absolutely fine if you like SMW the most, it's still just about clinging on to my 2D Mario top spot as well but they just seemed like some pretty odd reasons.
As for why I prefer World despite having many claims that look to go against it, well that's simple, the Cape, trivializing level design has never been so much fun, also the castle stages tend to be pretty tops, the music in them is sublime.
and nostalgia, lots of it
 
Pie and Beans said:
I like Ego because he seems to have a fairly good head on his shoulders, but even his Sequelitus 'reviews' revealed he has a tenuous grip on objective quality and not trying to explain nostalgic attachment of his own through straw man arguments hurled at the competing 'other game'.

He's funny, a talented 2d animator, and a SWELL INTERNET GUY; thats that. Some undiscovered genius of game design (and of course gamefeel) or untapped critic of our time he most assuredly is not.
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What is this objective quality you speak of? By the very nature of the word objective the quality of a game is never objectively good or bad. The quality of a videogame is a subjective evaluation. I guess you are looking for an opinion not colored by previous perceptions or attachment, but that's not what objective means...
 
Nocturnowl said:
I'm almost excited to see what the level designers here cooked up for what should be the toughest stages in an already busted game.
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Oh that would be the Final Story after completing the other three. It's... impressive.
Instant death spheres that spawn seemingly out of nowhere AND suck the characters in. Plus you have to complete a stage as every single main and side character. Guess how many save points there are.
 
Jon really is a fucking franchise prisoner. Jesus Christ.

Edit: Jon taking the piss out of nostalgia goggled gamer Youtubers. Wow.
 
Pie and Beans said:
Jon really is a fucking franchise prisoner. Jesus Christ.

Edit: Jon taking the piss out of nostalgia goggled gamer Youtubers. Wow.
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The irony, it is obscenely thick.

MechaX said:
Yeah, what's the story behind this one?
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A lot of people hate Mike Matei.
I can kind of understand, but I don't have any real issues with him.
I've talked to him before, he's a really nice guy. Even offered to send me free AVGN DVDs.
 
BatDan said:
The irony, it is obscenely thick.



A lot of people hate Mike Matei.
I can kind of understand, but I don't have any real issues with him.
I've talked to him before, he's a really nice guy. Even offered to send me free AVGN DVDs.
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The lengths they go to in order to shit on the little guys in this episodes is actually pathetic. Like they are practically describing JonTrons entire YouTube...
 
RagnarokX said:
Man, I was worried in their latest Sonic 06 playthrough. They ALMOST hit the hint marker and found out what they had to do!

I like how they never found out and still don't understand that carrying Elise gives them the power to walk over stuff.
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I like how they actually did find out and understand this back in Dusty Desert, taking to calling it "the glowy", and suddenly regain "the glowy" and go "WHAT IS THIS I DON'T EVEN" as if they've never seen it before.
 
The Grumps actually love AVGN actually I think, it was probably the inspiration for them to do this in the first place anyway. That they keep skitting the crass "CASTLE MY ASS" outbursts is out of love, not hate.

Jon getting narky that Ego was looking for secrets and not just blasting through the game like a chore was particularly frown inducing. But yeah, way too much DK too soon. They must have a stack of awesome shit, they can come back to more DK in like a few months or something, those carts arent going to explode.
 
Shadow Hog said:
I like how they actually did find out and understand this back in Dusty Desert, taking to calling it "the glowy", and suddenly regain "the glowy" and go "WHAT IS THIS I DON'T EVEN" as if they've never seen it before.
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No, they never understood WHY he had that power in Dusty Desert. They just thought it was random. And then they never questioned why he lost the power. And now he has it again and they act like they've never seen it before.
 
To diversify they should play some Rayman Origins if they want to stick with 2D platformers, or they could get around to that Gaf Grumps care package maybe, we could always use more Game Grumps VS.

Fortunately DKC2 is my favourite platformer out there so I can't complain too much about this DK overload, they should drop DKCR for now, or in general because they're just going to be dying over and over anyway leading to multiple game overs judging by how it's gone so far.

At this rate next week on Game Grumps, VS Donkey Konga.
 
RagnarokX said:
No, they never understood WHY he had that power in Dusty Desert. They just thought it was random. And then they never questioned why he lost the power. And now he has it again and they act like they've never seen it before.
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Either way, they've seen the power before. I don't quite get why they're acting like they never have, all of a sudden. I mean, I understand Crisis City induced a week hiatus from the game, but still...
 
Arin: "Woah, geeze, there were stilt ass... foot people. They were missing their feet in case you didn't notice."

Jon: "Stilt-ass foot people..."

Arin: "Yeah-yeah they didn't have a foot. They were all walking around... They all were missing their foot for some reason. They all had a tragic accident."

Uh... peg leg pirate trope?
 
Did Arin just call Super Mario Galaxy forgettable? #imdone
 
RagnarokX said:
No, they never understood WHY he had that power in Dusty Desert. They just thought it was random. And then they never questioned why he lost the power. And now he has it again and they act like they've never seen it before.
Click to expand...

I think they've had to pretend that they had never seen some of this stuff before due to lots of lost Sonic 06 footage, and they forgot that this is one of the things they really did encounter earlier and they don't have to pretend anymore.
 
Anth0ny said:
I've heard that from lots of people, actually. Mario Galaxy "Lacks identity", or is forgettable compared to Mario 64 or Super Mario World.
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Mario 64 and World are both just as forgettable, if you weren't there wide eyed on launch day.

I played Mario 64 once on DS and enjoyed it but I remember nothing other than the first level and a boat and a clock.

I played World once long after its heyday and I remember very little about it at all. 3 is much easier to remember due to the themed worlds.
 
Anth0ny said:
I've heard that from lots of people, actually. Mario Galaxy "Lacks identity", or is forgettable compared to Mario 64 or Super Mario World.
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I can't even begin to comprehend how someone could claim Mario Galaxy lacks an identity. There is literally no other game like it. A few similar gimmicks from games here and there, but nothing built around that style of gameplay, and no 3D platformer before it with that manner of level design.
 
UncleSporky said:
I played Mario 64 once on DS and enjoyed it but I remember nothing other than the first level and a boat and a clock.
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well that's not the real mario 64



as much as I love the Galaxy games, I don't think they come close to Mario 64 when it comes to memorable moments/stages/music
 
as someone who loves DKC2 and Returns, jesus christ guys stop with the Donkey Kong

I don't see them rushing through this as quickly as they did the first game.
 
Anth0ny said:
well that's not the real mario 64



as much as I love the Galaxy games, I don't think they come close to Mario 64 when it comes to memorable moments/stages/music
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Well it's easier for music and stages to be memorable when there are like 3 songs and 10 levels that you replay over and over.

Heck I named like a third of the game right there, didn't I.

Vs. like 30 galaxies, generally with entirely different planetoid paths through the same galaxy where none of them has the chance to shine and stick in your mind as much as when you replay the same level a lot.
 
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