ZeroGravity
Member
And it turned out to be the best level in the game.
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Game Grumps (aka Egoraptor plays some games)
- Thread starter Poyunch
- Start date
Zaraki_Kenpachi
Member
Ya, it feels like it's getting worse now. And the sonic one Jon keeps running in circles on the platform so he falls off and dies. Why can't you stand still for 2 seconds? They weren't even making jokes in the Mario WiiU one, Jon was just screaming "AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA" again. :/
He couldn't just slide down the slope into the goombas. HAD to jump on them. He's really impatient. It was really bugging me how he couldn't stand still and see what the boss' pattern was or just jump into the lava cuz he couldn't wait for platforms; in this game he gets a powerup and immediately jumps into an enemy.
Knux-Future
Banned
I think Jon's problem is that he makes a mountain out of a molehill.
The thing he brings up are legit but not as bad as he makes them seem and because he gets over hype with it, it becomes overbearing.
I'm glad this is a one of tho. It's not a great series when it 's gonna be nothing but "but teh old games were betttter" in a nutshell.
I think they are at their best when they are playing games/series in which they have no attachment to. Nostalgia Glass all over dis bitch.
He is also not as bad at gaming as he seems...he's just not able to joke around or explain stuff while playing. It's kinda like Brad dying a shitton in quick looks because he's trying to explain stuff.....
Not as easy as it looks.
The thing he brings up are legit but not as bad as he makes them seem and because he gets over hype with it, it becomes overbearing.
I'm glad this is a one of tho. It's not a great series when it 's gonna be nothing but "but teh old games were betttter" in a nutshell.
I think they are at their best when they are playing games/series in which they have no attachment to. Nostalgia Glass all over dis bitch.
He is also not as bad at gaming as he seems...he's just not able to joke around or explain stuff while playing. It's kinda like Brad dying a shitton in quick looks because he's trying to explain stuff.....
Not as easy as it looks.
EricDiesel
Member
How can a Mario power-up be "contrived"? What? No idea what he means by that. Like a lot of things they both say haha.
I guess it harshes the gamefeel.
I guess it harshes the gamefeel.
They could make a fun series of it if they just stuck to playing the game and commenting on what's happening at the moment, make fun of stuff they don't have to make shit up about. NSMB multiplayer can be pretty chaotic, and Jon isn't very good at games, so that right there is a recipe for fun. It's one thing to have an opinion, but they start trying to make up factual reasons to back up their opinion while stuff that discredits what they are saying is going on on the screen and it just gets exhausting.
Chinpoko_Master
Member
I kinda have the same feelings as them about the NSMB games. They're bland as hell, it's like Nintendo just churns them out with no real love or effort put into them. They're fun I guess, but even with the new power ups it doesn't feel fresh at all.
They aren't bland at all. They might feel that way if you don't go after the star coins, I suppose, but the levels feel like love letters to platforming fans. Levels are tight and extremely well designed, filled with secrets and challenge. They don't feel like they were thoughtlessly churned out at all. They seem pretty meticulously designed, in fact.
I think maybe my favorite star coin in NSMBU was
there was a star coin underwater blocked by urchin enemies. The only way to reach it without taking damage was to throw a koopa troopa into the water and stop it underwater so you could grab it (since shells make you float so you can't just swim down with it), float up, and throw it at the urchins.
No, no I think it's pretty bad placement button-wise even if I never accidentally did it when I played NSMBW with friends. That's a legit complaint. Why is the suicide on the... biggest button on the face of the Wiimote? IIRC, they don't use the minus button for anything in NSBMW so why not that button? Or, a combination of A+B? Or just B itself? Oh, because it would be awkward to press B? It's no less awkward than pressing A, IMO.
Also, aren't Jon's hands kinda... big? It would make sense if his thumb is bigger than the D-Pad and thus, why he accidentally can hit the A button. :x
Again, not saying I had trouble with it, but there's no reason to dismiss it because it's Jon complaining about it. I think it could have been placed on a different button, at least. Maybe the GamePad makes this less of a problem for the first player, though.
Regulus Tera
Romanes Eunt Domus
I don't think anyone would bat an eyelid at you calling Jon obese.
Only you can't use the Gamepad when playing multiplayer. Or rather, it's stuck in Boost mode (placing platforms by touching the screen).
Secret Fawful
Member
I'd bat an eyelid or two at Jon.
Chinpoko_Master
Member
I disagree. Visually, they're very underwhelming. I don't see why they can't go the extra mile to make them as eye popping as a game like Rayman Origins. The music is pretty crappy too. Nothing truly memorable or catchy. And didn't they make like, two new tracks for NSMBU? That's a perfect example of what I mean when I say they're just churning these games out. The level design may be good, but it just feels like more of the same. I guess I just miss the games when 2D Mario platformers were genre-defining, and these games certainly aren't.
I accidentally hit the A button a few times in NSMBWii, and one time it caused a game over when playing MP like it did for them. My biggest issue though was the tiny d-pad... Sometimes While holding right I would accidentally hit the down button... And in mid air over a pit, I would fall to my death. I've played a fair bit of NSMBU two player and haven't had either problem yet so I guess I'm just used to it now.
I agree with most others though. While I definitely prefer the SP Mario experience since I can rush without worrying about anybody, the multiplayer is extremely zany and a tons of fun. There's plenty to complain about when it comes to the series, but I'd they'd just hush up and play the game and react to some of the goofy stuff that happens then it would be a lot of fun. Hopefully this is a one-off if they're just going to whine about little things.
I agree with most others though. While I definitely prefer the SP Mario experience since I can rush without worrying about anybody, the multiplayer is extremely zany and a tons of fun. There's plenty to complain about when it comes to the series, but I'd they'd just hush up and play the game and react to some of the goofy stuff that happens then it would be a lot of fun. Hopefully this is a one-off if they're just going to whine about little things.
Net_Wrecker
Member
I just think some players come into these 2D Mario titles carrying themes, mechanics, playstyles, etc. from other recent 2D platformers, or other gaming experiences, and subconsciously attach them to traditional Mario. When those values aren't present in something like NSMBU, it turns into (sometimes) unwarranted criticism. The "New" series isn't about revolutionizing anything. It isn't Super Meat Boy, it isn't Journey, it isn't Braid, it isn't Flower, it isn't Rayman, it isn't Limbo, etc. It's a popcorn game, and exactly what it wants to be; Easy entertainment, and I think a lot of people just can't accept that. It's a love letter to the 16 and 8 bit days. I DO think artstyle and music criticism is totally valid though. If you're going to pump out this style of game, it has to look and sound varied, at least.
On a gameplay level, I don't really know what could satisfy people that seem to be "over" the traditional style. There's only so much you can do before it starts to morph into something that's no longer a traditional 2D Mario game. 3D Mario gets all the new hotness nowadays.
Sir Ilpalazzo
Member
It sounds like you're putting the visuals and music over the mechanics.
I agree that the games don't look or sound fresh, and I wish they would try to innovate a little more, but that doesn't mean they're soulless or whatever.
I found NSMBU to be very nice on the eyes, and the music isn't memorable but it isn't offensive. The level design is great though, and the other things really only amount nitpicks in comparison. They put their efforts where it matters most. Not to say I don't wish they had better music, it's just not super important when the gameplay and level design are so good. I don't really understand it, since people love a game like VVVVVV and that's just solid color basic pixel shapes.
Flame Lord
Member
I don't think that really constitutes as a new thing.
Isn't the fact that there isn't anything new or innovative in these games what it means to be soulless? They add some new suits but they're mostly just other suits in a different skin.
Chinpoko_Master
Member
I am somewhat. Visuals and music can go a long way in helping a game feel new and fresh, even if it's not. It's also probably the most neglected part of the NSMB series. Super Mario Bros, Super Mario Bros 3, and Super Mario World all had their own distinct style and feel. With NSMB, the games all just blend together.
Doctor Decimate
Member
it definitely doesn't help a person's perception of the series
SuperAndroid17
Member
Well I'm glad that was one-hitter quitter series. Cant fucking stand the NSMB theme
Bring back banjo
Bring back banjo
Sir Ilpalazzo
Member
I think that in terms of mechanics, they innovate about as much as you can expect from Mario. Every game might not be revolutionary like the original five Mario platformers, but there have been twenty years of platformers since then, so maybe that's to be expected. The music and graphics might be kind of weak, but that is not enough to make the game "soulless" or "unoriginal".
EatinOlives
Member
VVVVVV is a 2 hour game made by one guy with awesome music like this.
It's not the result of a gaming giant like Nintendo offering it as a killer app. And in some ways (like the music and platforming originality), VVVVVV actually has the NSMB games beat, which reflects even worse on Nintendo.
It's the equivalent of Capcom pretending MegaMan 10 is a AAA title, complete with a full $60 pricetag. Yeah, these games aren't bad, but don't flatter yourselves.
I'd pay $60 for Megaman 9. That game is infinitely better than any NSMB game.
fucking megaman 9
so good
Sir Ilpalazzo
Member
I'm not sure what your point is. VVVVVV is better than the New Super Mario Bros. in a few aspects like music and "originality", so the NSMB games are embarrassing to Nintendo?
EatinOlives
Member
I loved MM9 and liked MM10, but Capcom chose the right venue through which to distribute it is all I'm saying.
My point is the NSMB games simply strike me as easy-cash games that aren't Nintendo's best effort, marketed as something they're not.
The main thing I don't understand about the NSMB series is why they're not willing to innovate on the world. SMW has you playing in Dinosaur Land! Sunshine has you in a tropical island, Galaxy has you in space... Why is it that every NSMB game is just "okay here's a grassy world and a desert world and an island world and a snow world and a lava world..." Even SMB3 which they obviously are copying with this stuff by had really cool ideas like the world with a tower to the sky, the big/small world, the pipe world... Where the heck did the interesting ideas go?
Sir Ilpalazzo
Member
Are you saying games don't deserve to be sold at retail unless they meet some arbitrary standard of "originality"?
KirbYuuYuu
Member
Hot Coldman
Banned
yep
A Link to the Past
Banned
"Trashy" indie compared to trashy mainstream.
KojiKnight
Member
How to get Nintendo to stop making NSMB games.... convince the world to stop buying them. Especially to the tune of 2-3 times as much as a 3D mario game. Until you can manage that, Nintendo will keep making them and keep cashing in on them.
Riposte
Member
I don't find the level design in NSMBW to be trash. Some of the best in the series even. (Not the mention the mechanics mostly suck in VVVVV compared to Mario.)
Soulless would be if they didn't put any effort into the level design at all, like if they felt like they were made with a level editor kit like Sonic Rush levels feel. You're kinda contradicting yourself by saying it's a fact that there isn't anything new or innovative in these games, which is false in and of itself, only to go on to mention new powerups.
Stop having fun, you guys!
They got the formula down pat and there's no reason to shake up the mechanics too much. It wouldn't hurt to change the level tropes a bit, but again that would just be nitpicking since they pretty much use all the tropes there are, just limiting the aesthetics.
Flame Lord
Member
I defiantly think they can be called soulless. I don't think the core gameplay has ever changed much in 2D Mario games; but the main thing that made each of them feel different were the levels. In NSMB they have been using the same worlds in every game and they barely add anything new to the world. Not only that but the art style is the same every game with reused models, animations every thing.
And like I said, the "new" power up basically just inherit old trait from old power ups and repackage it.
I think the bubble has burst. NSMB 2 is selling pretty meh (especially by NSMB standards), and it doesn't look like U is doing much better.
I expect them to drop the "New" with the next 2D Mario.
I dunno. I find it preferable to SMW's approach of most levels lacking a unique world identity.
Sir Ilpalazzo
Member
I think you're prioritizing the wrong things. I wish they would try harder with the aesthetics of the NSMB games, and I guess I would mark that as a negative if I were a reviewer, but it's not really that big of a deal. What is important is that they keep delivering high-quality platformers. If they start slacking on that front, then maybe the games can be called soulless cash-ins.
I thought chocolate island was pretty unique, more so than anything in the NSMB games.
Star World and Special World were awesome too.
Flame Lord
Member
I don't see why you can't have good level design and still be soulless. Each game is basically the same game besides the level, so why not just make DLC instead of making us pay full price for these copy pasted games over and over?
And honestly I don't even think the levels in these games are that great. There are a few good ones in each game but nothing to write home about imo, but I'll leave that alone.
Riposte
Member
You don't think that has something to do with hardware performing weaker?
Nocturnowl
Member
Varying stage themes have never been particularly prevalent in 2D Mario titles, SMW has less area variety than SMB3 as well as using old settings with a new skin, even the visually praised Yoshi's Island has the same basic world setups of plains, jungle/forest, snow, clouds and caps off each world with a castle.
I'm not going to say that there's anything good about NSMB sticking to those same old tropes and not bothering to even overhaul them a bit until NSMBU but from my standpoint the SML duo are the only ones that truly went out there with unique settings.
2D Mario has always been pretty safe, they tend to throw the more varied or unique locations to their other platforming franchises like DK or Wario.
Speaking of Dinosaur Land for a second its main appeal thematically should really be viewed as the new enemy types involved in them since they're pretty unique to SMW and the sprawling map angle, the actual stages and locations are token Mario settings with food names, vanilla dome isn't an ice cream cavern, it's just a cave.
After striking success with NSMB they've been hesitant to change any of the art direction substantially, as silly as it sounds it's as if they perhaps feel the more casual audience might get scared off by a visual tour de force spewing artistry out all over the place and looking completely different to what they're used to.
While some would prefer 2D platformers to be sprite focused and rich in art style I imagine there's also a large audience out there that think if it's not with 3D models it's not as good because more traditional 2D is "antiquated" or some such angle.
Considering the success of NSMB to their many other platformers, some of which with distinct visual styles like Wario Land: Shake it, Kirby's Epic Yarn and even the rpg/platformer hybrid that is Super Paper Mario then maybe there's a method to this madness and that NSMB is intentionally designed to be basic and inoffensive visually (which in turn becomes offensive to some for lacking ambition), or i'm just talking nonsense taking shots in the dark.
But I do actually expect NSMBU to be the last 2D Mario for a while and possibly the last with the NSMB name tag, four SMB games and four NSMB games would make some nice synchronisation except these last ones are deliberate throwbacks that weren't made to redefine the genre, that torch for the Mario series seems to have been passed to the 3D titles. Four "new" games since 2006 isn't that bad, with the way people go on about them around here you'd think they made double that.
Hmm, maybe one day we'll get New Super Mario All Stars.
Also Chocolate island is a brown version of the standard stages with lava turned chocolate brown in the caves, if that's unique then I guess Desert Dessert is as well.
I'd say unique is more like the instrument themed desert in Rayman, it actually uses the musical theme in the stages as well.
Of course, but I think Nintendo sees the NSMB franchise as a system seller (considering they launched 3DS XL and Wii U with NSMB games), when that is no longer the case. I don't expect 2 and U to have the legs DS and Wii had.
Fimbulvetr
Member
I guess it depends on how you define such a nebulous, in this case, term like "soulless" in the first place.
LoftyTheMetroid
Member
I agree that the music and visuals of the New Super Mario Bros. aren't ambitious whatsoever (although I'd hesitate to call them bad). But I also agree with Sir Ilpalazzo, I think far too many people are directly associating audiovisual elements with "soul".
I see the "New" series as being a sort of ode to traditional platforming, and in a weird way the lacking graphics/music sort of emphasize the brilliant and creative level designs. It's almost poetic in the way it contrasts with a large portion of the industry, where we emphasize aesthetics and locations like "the west" or "the colonies" instead of fundamental gameplay. (Probably stepped on some toes there, even though I also like those types of games...)
I'm not saying we shouldn't push Nintendo to go the extra mile with their products, but I think if you objectively, critically observe the games, you'll find that Nintendo has maintained the fantastic sense of level design they've always had. I think many (including Jon) get too caught up in the audiovisual, and then generalize those feelings across the entire series.
Coming from a guy who absolutely adored VVVVVV (particularly for its emphasis on unique gameplay mechanics), you really can't compare the two, they're different experiences.
And I hate to make this sort of comparison, but if you want to go this route, VVVVVV is a 2 hour game for $15 (or, at least that's what I paid for it when it first came out). Especially if you factor in the secrets and extras, NSMB is at least 10 hours worth of genuine content, so a dollar-to-value comparison makes NSMB at least as worthwhile as VVVVVV.
Really? I didn't know that. Do you have any links? I thought NSMB2 was selling about on track with the original...
And if the Wii U title is having slow sales, you can probably attribute that to it being a new console. All of the other entries had a sizable base to build off of, while NSMBU is day one with the Wii U. I'm sure the long term sales will be sizable.
I see the "New" series as being a sort of ode to traditional platforming, and in a weird way the lacking graphics/music sort of emphasize the brilliant and creative level designs. It's almost poetic in the way it contrasts with a large portion of the industry, where we emphasize aesthetics and locations like "the west" or "the colonies" instead of fundamental gameplay. (Probably stepped on some toes there, even though I also like those types of games...)
I'm not saying we shouldn't push Nintendo to go the extra mile with their products, but I think if you objectively, critically observe the games, you'll find that Nintendo has maintained the fantastic sense of level design they've always had. I think many (including Jon) get too caught up in the audiovisual, and then generalize those feelings across the entire series.
Coming from a guy who absolutely adored VVVVVV (particularly for its emphasis on unique gameplay mechanics), you really can't compare the two, they're different experiences.
And I hate to make this sort of comparison, but if you want to go this route, VVVVVV is a 2 hour game for $15 (or, at least that's what I paid for it when it first came out). Especially if you factor in the secrets and extras, NSMB is at least 10 hours worth of genuine content, so a dollar-to-value comparison makes NSMB at least as worthwhile as VVVVVV.
Really? I didn't know that. Do you have any links? I thought NSMB2 was selling about on track with the original...
And if the Wii U title is having slow sales, you can probably attribute that to it being a new console. All of the other entries had a sizable base to build off of, while NSMBU is day one with the Wii U. I'm sure the long term sales will be sizable.
KojiKnight
Member
It's too early to judge on Wii U. I feel that it's sales will be tied pretty closely to Wii U sales as an "evergreen" title and no doubt, the next Wii U bundle will be one with NSMBU which will also raise the number pretty high.