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Game of the Decade: Dark Souls Laid the Foundations for a New Genre

KingGhidorah

KingGhidorah

Banned
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Game of the Decade: Dark Souls Laid the Foundations for a New Genre

Prepare to die
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Demon's Souls did it first, but it was Dark Souls which brought the concept to the masses. Death and difficulty have always been two sources of video game frustration for as long as time remembers, although it wasn't until 2011 when Japanese developer From Software would truly burst onto the scene and give the concepts a whole new meaning. Accepting failure became a chance to learn; difficulty was something to conquer and boast about in the aftermath. It's a set of mechanics which has helped to craft an incredibly successful franchise and a handful of even better spin-offs, as well as a myriad of copycats.

The likes of Lords of the Fallen, The Surge, Nioh, Salt and Sanctuary, and Ashen all owe their entire existence to Dark Souls, while other titles such as the recent Star Wars Jedi: Fallen Order come packaged with their own spin on things. Terms such as Bonfires and the Estus Flask have become common lingo, grandiose boss fights upped their scale exponentially, and the labyrinthine-like nature of locations grew to justify the lack of an in-game map. It was Dark Souls that laid those foundations for time to come

.....
Click to expand...

Still lacking an official name, the Souls-like genre is one that has matured over the years. Attempts by other studios have never managed to actually better the work of From Software, and we doubt they ever will, although they do help to solidify how much the original creators got right at the time. Bonfires, Meditation Points, Med Bays -- whatever it is you want to call them, they became a rare chance to relax and take stock of your travels. Spend your Souls on levelling up and bring life back to every enemy you slaughtered along the way, repair and upgrade your equipment, or fast travel to other locations in some cases. The bonfire is perhaps the concept which had the most impact on video games as a whole.

Boss fights are some of Dark Souls' most memorable moments, however, and it's the game's approach to those daring battles which changed important clashes for a decade. You can never go too long in a video game before a gigantic health bar suddenly presents itself on-screen coupled with a devilish title for the beast you're about to test your might against. Along with unique mechanics to change the tide of battle, every towering foe demanded a different approach as attack patterns changed, phases would dramatically switch up the antagonist's form, and targeting specific body parts could even yield unique weapons. It's a model that continues to be replicated to this day, heightening the extravagance of a boss fight in the process
Click to expand...
 
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Bryank75

Bryank75

Banned
Agreed, a brilliant idea and Shuhei really was excellent as the head of WWS. He really loves the Souls games and understands great gameplay.

A shame that the full potential was not understood at that early stage.

Edit: DEMONS SOULS, Demons Souls laid the foundations, not Dark Souls!
 
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#Phonepunk#

#Phonepunk#

Banned
Freedom Gate Co. said:
We have had many similar games to Dark Souls in the past with different settings, I don't understand why people think Dark Souls invented something new, at best it popularized something that didn't used to be popular.
Click to expand...
that is enough. Elvis didn't invent rock n roll but he synthesized it and other influences into something fresh. the presentation in Souls is quite unique and memorable. yes there are many worlds but none as beloved, as well known as the back of your hand, as Lordran. people have made posters of the world because it is so beloved. not so much with other games. it features a beautiful intertwining spiral landscape, an entire self contained fantasy land, with heavens and hells, all accessible without loading, as a continuous world. the level design itself tells a story. this isn't just any game world.

my-inage.png


other Fome games and knock offs & predecessors do variations on this theme, but they have never nailed the intertwined world the way the first Dark Souls does. the journey through Undead Burg being a masterful demonstration of level design. sure, Mario had jumped on turtles and navigated platforms before Super Mario Bros., but it was the latter which went on to be a genre defining classic.

you don't have to be the first, you just have to synthesize on previous concepts and spin it into something unique. if there is another game like Dark Souls, I'd love to be shown it! even the sequels are their own beasts...
 
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Clear

Clear

CliffyB's Cock Holster
This is such bullshit. The only reason why Dark Souls gets so much more adoration than Demon's has precisely fuck-all to do with its content.

Dark Souls was multi-platform, not an exclusive on a console that was at the time of its release languishing in 3rd place sales-wise. Not only that, but it had an extraordinarily torturous release pattern where initially it was Japan only, then Atlus picked it up and ran with it in the US, and eventually (like much later) Bandai/Namco put it out in Europe.

The lionization of Dark over Demon's is a giant "fuck you" to creativity, its purely a matter of popularity/visibility.
 
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Freedom Gate Co.

Freedom Gate Co.

Banned
#Phonepunk# said:
that is enough. Elvis didn't invent rock n roll but he synthesized it into something fresh. the presentation in Souls is quite unique and memorable. yes there are many worlds but none as beloved, as well known as the back of your hand, as Lordran. people have made posters of the world because it is so beloved. not so much with other games. it features a beautiful intertwining spiral landscape, an entire self contained fantasy land, with heavens and hells, all accessible without loading, as a continuous world.

other Souls games do variations on this theme, but they have never nailed the intertwined world the way the first Dark Souls does. the journey through Undead Burg being a masterful demonstration of level design. sure, Mario had jumped on turtles and navigated platforms before Super Mario Bros., but it was the latter which went on to be a classic.

you don't have to be the first, you just have to synthesize on previous concepts and spin it into something unique. if there is another game like Dark Souls, I'd love to be shown it! even the sequels are their own beasts...
Click to expand...

When I said first I wasn't talking about Demon Souls.
 
Z

Zekra Dezivad

Member
Demon's Souls with all the word of mouth, the sleeper hit status, the late arrival in PAL territories due to the success.
In Japan DsS had a mediocre opening, but the game started to grow on people. The Best Price edition had long legs and people in the west were importing the asian version.
By the time Dark Souls released, there was a solid and dedicated community, it was a cult title already.
Dark Souls built upon that. More people discovered it, but the root of the franchise is DsS.

Things like that needs a story, a "journey of the hero". Moments of failure and success, obstacles in their path. DsS should be remembered and praised by all the FROM and Souls fanbase because it had an unique story. And the Souls genre is its legacy.
Heck, it was called Dark "Souls" basically because of the existence of Demon's "Souls" and they wanted to carry on the name that already had a passionate fanbase.

You could do a terrific documentary on the DsS story, 4 big companies involved (From, Sony, Atlus, NamcoBandai), a publisher that didn't believe in its chances to success, the community that alone carried the title, the incredible story on how Miyazaki got the helm of the project, the man who later bacame the president of the company thanks to that first success. There is so much legend, and story, and passion that is overwhelming.
Dark Souls is a masterpiece with a commercial success story. It lacks all the drama, the gloom and doom, the redemption, of its predecessor.
 
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down 2 orth

down 2 orth

Member
I love Souls-like games. I'm not sure if "difficult" is as good a word to describe them as "challenging" would be though. You're expected to die. It's a part of the mechanics, and it's not always punishing either. To me, truly difficult games would be NES side-scrollers, some bullet hell games, or some real-time strategy games on the high difficulty settings. Souls-like games simply require you to cultivate your skills.
 
KingGhidorah

KingGhidorah

Banned
Clear said:
This is such bullshit. The only reason why Dark Souls gets so much more adoration than Demon's has precisely fuck-all to do with its content.

Dark Souls was multi-platform, not an exclusive on a console that was at the time of its release languishing in 3rd place sales-wise. Not only that, but it had an extraordinarily torturous release pattern where initially it was Japan only, then Atlus picked it up and ran with it in the US, and eventually (like much later) Bandai/Namco put it out in Europe.

The lionization of Dark over Demon's is a giant "fuck you" to creativity, its purely a matter of popularity/visibility.
Click to expand...


Does it really matter whether it's Dark Souls or Demon's Souls? It's by the same creator and same team.
 
spawn

spawn

Member
I broke my PS3 controller while playing Demon's souls just from the complete frustration over a boss and I have never gone back to playing another souls game
 
Jtibh

Jtibh

Banned
The only reason i keot my ps3 is cuz of demon souls.

And excuse me but it was demon souls that laid the foundation due to being a sleeping hit and due of being picked as game of the year by many.
 
pr0cs

pr0cs

Member
Started this Gen hating the idea of playing a punishing game that didn't respect my time. I avoided all things souls-esq.
I picked up Prepare to die edition of Dark Souls in a steam Xmas sale for $5 on a whim figuring that if it sucked it would reaffirm my belief that their games suck but turns out I loved it.
80 hours later I finished it and picked up every other souls like game I could get my grubby mitts on.
Huge Fromsoftware fan now and I'll try any game that features interlocked maps, RPG elements and challenging gameplay.
 
Maiden Voyage

Maiden Voyage

Gold™ Member
I only just this year got into Dark Souls. I tried it a few years back and hated it. Not sure what about this year in particular made it click for me. I absolutely love the combat and the mechanics are incredible.

I started up both 2 and 3 but have only gotten in a few hours. I will probably play these 2 slowly over the next few years.
 
sublimit

sublimit

Banned
Zekra Dezivad said:
Demon's Souls with all the word of mouth, the sleeper hit status, the late arrival in PAL territories due to the success.
In Japan DsS had a mediocre opening, but the game started to grow on people. The Best Price edition had long legs and people in the west were importing the asian version.
By the time Dark Souls released, there was a solid and dedicated community, it was a cult title already.
Dark Souls built upon that. More people discovered it, but the root of the franchise is DsS.

Things like that needs a story, a "journey of the hero". Moments of failure and success, obstacles in their path. DsS should be remembered and praised by all the FROM and Souls fanbase because it had an unique story. And the Souls genre is its legacy.
Heck, it was called Dark "Souls" basically because of the existence of Demon's "Souls" and they wanted to carry on the name that already had a passionate fanbase.

You could do a terrific documentary on the DsS story, 4 big companies involved (From, Sony, Atlus, NamcoBandai), a publisher that didn't believe in its chances to success, the community that alone carried the title, the incredible story on how Miyazaki got the helm of the project, the man who later bacame the president of the company thanks to that first success. There is so much legend, and story, and passion that is overwhelming.
Dark Souls is a masterpiece with a commercial success story. It lacks all the drama, the gloom and doom, the redemption, of its predecessor.
Click to expand...
I agree. Demon's Souls was where it all started and many of its aspects still haven't been bested by any Dark Souls game (atmosphere,story,NPCs,hub,World Tendency,and all in all a much more "solid" game than Dark Souls which some of its parts were unfinished).It's also the game that From Software kept looking back at it for inspiration for all their future games at least up until Bloodborne. The only significant new thing Dark Souls brought were the masterfully interconnected maps.

"The likes of Lords of the Fallen, The Surge, Nioh, Salt and Sanctuary, and Ashen all owe their entire existence to Dark Souls, while other titles such as the recent Star Wars Jedi: Fallen Order come packaged with their own spin on things. "
Click to expand...

Does that guy imply that Nioh didn't do anything new while SWJFO was the only game from that list that brought something fresh to the formula? Also what about Code Vein? That game did much more new things than any of the games he mentioned.
 
Clear

Clear

CliffyB's Cock Holster
KingGhidorah said:
Does it really matter whether it's Dark Souls or Demon's Souls? It's by the same creator and same team.
Click to expand...

It matters if you want to see creativity and innovation recognized, not just what turns out to be popular or fashionable.

Basically, its a bad argument on numerous levels.

The main thing of course is that its emblematic of a fundamental failure of critical perception, an inability to recognize what is forward-looking and exiting to the market until the market itself has proven the fact! As noted by someone earlier in the thread Dark Souls owes its existence to grass-roots gamers "discovering" Demon's, and popularizing it through word of mouth.

This happens all too often; games like Nier are perceived as failures despite building cult followings, so when the sequel appears it receives all the plaudits that the original title actually earned. What's worse is that there is never a retrospective reevaluation because that would require them to admit the error or omission.

Nier is still at best an "interesting failure", as is Demon's Souls despite time proving their significance/influence.

This is tragic, and what angers me most about the practice is that for every time that a great idea gets rehabilitated and ends up enriching gaming, there are multiple instances that simply get forgotten. The enthusiast press should be custodians of the field, not just lazy trend-watchers who simply parrot back what the marketplace is already saying and thinking.
 
H

Hotspurr

Banned
New genre? Please. The only major new genre introduced recently that's even worth talking about is the "strand" genre. I never thought walking could be so interesting.

Joking aside, there have been many souls inspired games like Remnant, Ashen, No Oh, Darksiders III, Lord's of Shadow, of Salt and Sanctuary, and others I'm likely missing. It's a very cool genre and Bloodborne must be my all time favorite game this gen right next to DMC5.
 
peronmls

peronmls

Member
I never thought the way DS did its gameplay was new but it feels like a combination of really old but punishing games from the NES era mixed with the PS2 era of games. Games like DS remind me of Onimusha/RE, Silent Hill and all those other 3rd person action games. They just need to bring them back and add rich gameplay.
 
Handel

Handel

Member
The first Dark Souls game was pretty incredible up until the end of Anor Londo then largely falls apart after that. Lost Izalith is one of the worst levels I have played in any game. That DS so regularly gets a pass for a substantial portion of it being at best okay, at worst terrible whereas other games get torn to shreds for far less is baffling to me.

I was never particularly impressed by it's approach to story/lore either. It's not unique as it's akin to the audio file approach popularized by games like Bioshock, and the story it tells isn't mindblowing in it's own right.
 
Handel

Handel

Member
Hotspurr said:
New genre? Please. The only major new genre introduced recently that's even worth talking about is the "strand" genre. I never thought walking could be so interesting.
Click to expand...
Walking simulators have been around since the start of this decade. Kojima calling the genre something else doesn't make it a new genre.
 
KingGhidorah

KingGhidorah

Banned
Clear said:
It matters if you want to see creativity and innovation recognized, not just what turns out to be popular or fashionable.

Basically, its a bad argument on numerous levels.

The main thing of course is that its emblematic of a fundamental failure of critical perception, an inability to recognize what is forward-looking and exiting to the market until the market itself has proven the fact! As noted by someone earlier in the thread Dark Souls owes its existence to grass-roots gamers "discovering" Demon's, and popularizing it through word of mouth.

This happens all too often; games like Nier are perceived as failures despite building cult followings, so when the sequel appears it receives all the plaudits that the original title actually earned. What's worse is that there is never a retrospective reevaluation because that would require them to admit the error or omission.

Nier is still at best an "interesting failure", as is Demon's Souls despite time proving their significance/influence.

This is tragic, and what angers me most about the practice is that for every time that a great idea gets rehabilitated and ends up enriching gaming, there are multiple instances that simply get forgotten. The enthusiast press should be custodians of the field, not just lazy trend-watchers who simply parrot back what the marketplace is already saying and thinking.
Click to expand...


Look I understand the anger if the creator and the team are different, that they didn't give the credit where its due. But both games are made by Miyazaki and co, same people. It's not like the game can take any credit, the people behind the games are the ones credited
 
Freedom Gate Co.

Freedom Gate Co.

Banned
It's not even a genre. Some fanboys decided that because it had copycats to make it one.

No one ever called Doom Clones a genre. Same with Halo clones.
 
Northeastmonk

Northeastmonk

Gold Member
Freedom Gate Co. said:
We have had many similar games to Dark Souls in the past with different settings, I don't understand why people think Dark Souls invented something new, at best it popularized something that didn't used to be popular.
Click to expand...
Which ones reset the level each time you rested at a bonfire and explored the hollow world of dark fantasy? Idk man, my 5 copies of Dark Souls says different.

From Software - Shadow Tower
I think you mean Clock Tower

Shadow_tower_box.jpg
 
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Vawn

Vawn

Banned
"But Demon's Souls doesn't count because...."

Fuck that. Demon's Souls made this genre and is still a fantastic game. Dark Souls is great, but it's just a spiritual successor to Demon's.
 
D

Deleted member 17706

Unconfirmed Member
There's definitely some truth to it. Not only did Dark Souls help form a new genre of sorts, in more general terms, it helped bring back the idea that a good challenge can provide a lot of meaning to video game experiences.
 
S

SLoWMoTIoN

Unconfirmed Member
Clear said:
This is such bullshit. The only reason why Dark Souls gets so much more adoration than Demon's has precisely fuck-all to do with its content.

Dark Souls was multi-platform, not an exclusive on a console that was at the time of its release languishing in 3rd place sales-wise. Not only that, but it had an extraordinarily torturous release pattern where initially it was Japan only, then Atlus picked it up and ran with it in the US, and eventually (like much later) Bandai/Namco put it out in Europe.

The lionization of Dark over Demon's is a giant "fuck you" to creativity, its purely a matter of popularity/visibility.
Click to expand...
Maybe just maybe it had to do with the fact Dark Souls is a better game.
 
KingGhidorah

KingGhidorah

Banned
Freedom Gate Co. said:
It's not even a genre. Some fanboys decided that because it had copycats to make it one.

No one ever called Doom Clones a genre. Same with Halo clones.
Click to expand...

There's definitely a Souls genre

Does Doom or Halo even have unique characteristics that other games blatantly copy? .....nah I don't think so....
 
D

Deleted member 17706

Unconfirmed Member
Freedom Gate Co. said:
It's not even a genre. Some fanboys decided that because it had copycats to make it one.

No one ever called Doom Clones a genre. Same with Halo clones.
Click to expand...

Doom Clones just turned into the FPS genre. Doom was the one that started the genre.
 
Ryu Kaiba

Ryu Kaiba

Member
Clear said:
It matters if you want to see creativity and innovation recognized, not just what turns out to be popular or fashionable.

Basically, its a bad argument on numerous levels.

The main thing of course is that its emblematic of a fundamental failure of critical perception, an inability to recognize what is forward-looking and exiting to the market until the market itself has proven the fact! As noted by someone earlier in the thread Dark Souls owes its existence to grass-roots gamers "discovering" Demon's, and popularizing it through word of mouth.

This happens all too often; games like Nier are perceived as failures despite building cult followings, so when the sequel appears it receives all the plaudits that the original title actually earned. What's worse is that there is never a retrospective reevaluation because that would require them to admit the error or omission.

Nier is still at best an "interesting failure", as is Demon's Souls despite time proving their significance/influence.

This is tragic, and what angers me most about the practice is that for every time that a great idea gets rehabilitated and ends up enriching gaming, there are multiple instances that simply get forgotten. The enthusiast press should be custodians of the field, not just lazy trend-watchers who simply parrot back what the marketplace is already saying and thinking.
Click to expand...

So what your saying is you want Bluepoint to remake Demon Souls, its because you want the Sony exclusive one to be best?
 
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Little Chicken

Little Chicken

Member
The nauseating Demon's Souls whining... đźš®

They're both amazing games, but the interconnected world of Dark Souls is just so much better and so much more evocative.

Also, Tower of Latria is vastly overrated.
 
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