Support NeoGAF

[viewtiful_dru]

Oooh, I sense bitterness, Colonel.

Hold the look button and L2/R2 at the same time to peek up over the grass...

I thought you went through VR training.

 

[Vaxadrin]

Well yeah, it's no secret that I absolutely sucked at the game.

Hence, my desire to just watch the cutscenes as a movie, because I disliked the "gameplay" so much.

 

[disappeared]

Grand Theft Auto

Grand Theft Auto 4 is apparently the biggest and best game to ever be released, and the gaming press thinks it has an Oscar-worthy story (although with shit like Juno receiving so much praise, it could be said that GTA4's tale is better than Oscar-worthy). To me, the story told in GTA4 is not the one of Niko Bellic's rise thorugh the ranks of the criminal underworld and getting revenge on an evil bastard. The story of GTA4 goes more like this:

Niko Bellic picks up his girlfriend, Alex, from her middle East side apartment. She tells him that she got a bikini wax just for him, and that he should be honored to be written about in her blog. They go to Club Liberty and get wasted. Attempting to drive home drunk, Niko crashes into a cop car, sending them into a high speed chase over the bridge to Bohan. Niko crashes the poorly handling van a few more times, causing it to explode, killing them both.

To me, that is the story told in GTA4, and it is far more entertaining than any tale of revenge or rags-to-riches. This perfectly embodies a storytelling ability that only video games have over other mediums...specifically the sandbox genre. The storyline of Oblivion, for me, is not about how a noble warrior saved the world from a spreading evil, but about how a solitary ranger ascended a massive snowy mountain just to see if he could.

I actually really like how you put that, and the more I think about it, the more I'm inclined to agree. Game stories (specifically in sandbox titles) can be whatever we make of them.

 

[Firestorm]

My story went more like this:

He dove into the grass to hide for a second. All he could see was grass, not only completely disorienting him, but also practically blinding him. He crawled to the edge of the grass to see what was going on. A guard spotted him. He tried to stand up to run away, but he only sat up to a crouch and began crawling again by accident. The guard opened fire on him and he died.

The beginning of MGS3 is frustrating. It gets better after you get through that part. I had the same issues and I just did the "once seen, run until you hit a cutscene to reset the alert" strategy... Also the "run as far as you can since once you die you'll respawn in the last room you hit anyway" strategy!

 

[SapientWolf]

I think Ico and Shadow of the Colossus epitomize how you can use devices unique to the medium to tell a meaningful and memorable story.

And on the other end of the spectrum, Grim Fandango shows that great production values, Hollywood caliber sets, witty dialogue and memorable characters can make a game feel every bit as cinematic as a movie. So I feel there's no one "correct way" to tell a story in a game.

 

[Mamesj]

All I can say is that the OP and other people intelligently discussing narrative in games are fighting the good fight.

For a few years, I tried to make myself believe in a more intellectual side to gaming that goes past a love for campiness and a love for working out my synapses + reflexes for some kind of awesome visual feedback or adrenaline rush or achievement.
I can't do it anymore. I wince at most stories and usually only enjoy them on a MST3K level. Some games have cool themes--I love the atmosphere and culture of liberty city, the religious mythological characters in SMT games, and the quirky sci-fi of MGS--but I've never come remotely close to enjoying a game story on a level on par with a book, movie, or show. The package is never complete.

It's strange to see the games shoot for the uncanny valley, yet remain at a sub-B movie level when it comes to engaging narratives.

Of course, there's nothing I'd like more than some visionary to come along and finally create a game that pulls it all together and creates an undeniable work of art.

 

[Vaxadrin]

Of course, there's nothing I'd like more than some visionary to come along and finally create a game that pulls it all together and creates an undeniable work of art.

It's called Rez.

 

[Xtyle]

This is ridiculous.
To the topic creator, what you experienced in the GTAIV game play is more of a gameplay experience, rather than experiencing a "story". I can make many gameplay choices in Pacman, a chess game, a racing game...heck, I can do different types of crashes in the Burntout games, does that mean I was experiencing a story?
Cutscenes, long or short have their purposes. They just need to be implemented properly, complimenting the gameplay.

If we are playing a game with story elements, as a player, there needs to be a reason why you have to do this and why you have to do that. Someone mentioned the Metroid Prime series having great storytelling...to me, I could never care about stories in that game that much. Not because I don't like its universe. It is just that the stories in those games usually are things in the past and about other things that's not directly related to my character, not so much about why I need to kill someone because he's done bad things to my character.

I prefer games that immerse you into their universes, AND characters.

 

[SapientWolf]

I've never come remotely close to enjoying a game story on a level on par with a book, movie, or show. The package is never complete.

It's strange to see the games shoot for the uncanny valley, yet remain at a sub-B movie level when it comes to engaging narratives.

Of course, there's nothing I'd like more than some visionary to come along and finally create a game that pulls it all together and creates an undeniable work of art.

I think the reason is that the narrative is always ancillary to the game, not the focus. Often, the story in video games must take a backseat to gameplay but films and books are entirely devoted to their narrative. And then you have to throw the expectation for choice and interaction into the equation. I don't know an easy way around this, and developers have mentioned that it is an unsolved problem.

I think in the future we're going to see storytelling responsibilities shift to the player, like Fable 2 and Fallout 3 are doing. This will put the focus on creating immersive worlds that contain many possible stories.

 

[BlazeHedgehog]

I think games that try to tell cinematic-type stories are totally missing the point. What you are doing in the game - your actions within the world - that's the story.

If the game has to remove me from the gameplay to show me something compelling it's not doing its job.

 

[fse]

That pretty much sums it up for me. Cutscenes should be brief and infrequent otherwise the game fails at being a game for me. Movie director wannabes making games should just go make movies.

bingo. same for me.

 

[Xtyle]

I think games that try to tell cinematic-type stories are totally missing the point. What you are doing in the game - your actions within the world - that's the story.

If the game has to remove me from the gameplay to show me something compelling it's not doing its job.

I think you are missing the point.
I don't think stories in games can only be presented in 1 way and 1 way only.
I also think that these cutscene breaks, or in game dailogue, are necessary to create breaks for the gamers after tense gameplay moments.

I think Dues Ex is one of the great games with successful cinematic storytelling. Even though the cutscenes weren't the best in quality, can you imagine what that game with be like without cutscenes?

I seriously have to ask this. To those that dislike long cutscenes, do you enjoy movies as well? And what kinds of movies?

MGS's cutscenes may be long but I think they suite that typical series.

 

[BlazeHedgehog]

I think you are missing the point.
I don't think stories in games can only be presented in 1 way and 1 way only.
I also think that these cutscene breaks, or in game dailogue, are necessary to create breaks for the gamers after tense gameplay moments.

I think Dues Ex is one of the great games with successful cinematic storytelling. Even though the cutscenes weren't the best in quality, can you imagine what that game with be like without cutscenes?

I seriously have to ask this. To those that dislike long cutscenes, do you enjoy movies as well? And what kinds of movies?

MGS's cutscenes may be long but I think they suite that typical series.

Well, I think there is a place for story in games, but not through fancy cinematics that shows my character doing things I can't do. Like Solid Snake backflipping off of an RPG in mid-flight. Why couldn't I do that? If that's not what the game is about, why is it in the cutscene?

Half-Life is a watermark for story in games because the plot happens as you play; there's no cinematic camera angles to show you a fancy view of your action, it's all right there, from your personal viewpoint, and that's the way videogames should present the storyline. GTA also gets it right because usually the major plot events are quick cutscenes that generally last a minute or two (usually less) and are just enough plot incentive to boot you out the door and get you playing the game again.

But unless you're playing an RPG where the entire concept of the game is dialog and character development, stopping a game to make you watch a long dramatic cutscene full of events and things the game physically does not allow you to do is bad stuff. If I wanted to watch a movie, I'd watch a movie. I put in a game to play something, to interact with a world. Not to watch 10 minutes of wacky storyline.

And QTEs don't let developers off the hook, either.