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Games in which the player can't die

toythatkills said:
I was talking to someone who's playing Tenchu at the moment and having trouble with a boss.

"There's an actual boss fight on this level," she said.

"Fuck bosses," I replied. "Fuck all combat in games. I don't like dying."

I don't like dying. It was like some kind of epiphany. I don't like dying. It's not so much the dying itself, it's the irritating returns to checkpoints that are too far back, or just shite combat getting in the way of a game that could be fun without it as a mechanic to threaten the player in lieu of putting in any other sort of challenge.

I played (tried to play) Uncharted 2 the other week. It got Game of the Year everywhere a few years back and I expected fun. What I got was alright platforming and terrible shooting sections that ruined the game for me. I appreciate that some of you like terrible shooting sections, but they're not for me! So I stopped really early on, because I couldn't be bothered to go through all these stupid gunfights to get to the alright platforming bits. If the game was just platforming, I'd have enjoyed it so much more.

Here's a game that gets it nearly perfect: Prince of Persia 2008. You can lose, but you can't die. Mostly, when you lose, you instantly go back no more than five seconds. If that game had ditched combat entirely it probably would be my favourite game ever. Everyone else in the world would have hated it, but I'd have been full of an eternal love for it. It's just the most chilled out relaxing platformer, for the most part, and that's the kind of experience I love.
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It sounds like you are the one who is terrible. Sometimes people get mixed up, it's okay. In the future try not to confuse your lack of ability with bad game design.

Your love for PoP 2008 tells me you might not be the kind of gamer who likes mastering skills or a challenge of any kind. (And I have no problem with non-punitive death in that game. It sucks because of the overly simplified controls that provide nothing to engage with.)

If you'd enjoy Uncharted more without the shooting, well, you might be brain-dead because the platforming is 99% automatic and the "exploration" is non-existent.
 
toythatkills said:
Here's a game that gets it nearly perfect: Prince of Persia 2008. You can lose, but you can't die. Mostly, when you lose, you instantly go back no more than five seconds. If that game had ditched combat entirely it probably would be my favourite game ever.
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You sure you don't just want to watch a movie? Because that's what it sounds like.
 
I've been muddling with this topic myself for long time as I think from a narrative perspective, the "death" state /game over state just really kills the overall singleplayer immersion. I think it's something developers should pay more attention to when designing a game instead of "die ->gameover->respawn" with absolutely no explanation and this explanation should be a prerequisite in all story driven games. That's to not to say that there shouldn't be a fail state but rather that that fail state needs to be plausible within the particular game's universe.
 
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Beelzeboss said:
Wario Land 2 and 3

Wario is too cool for death
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Lots of people are pointing this out, but I wanted to chime in and say I thought they were actually good games too, along with Wario Land 1. No motion controls, just pretty normal, decently-implemented (if I recall correctly) platforming, with lots of retry routes. The retries are needed since if you don't die, you just lose coins or something, and fall in water so you have to repeat a boss battle. Oh, and I think there was some secret stuff to replay and unlock, and parts of levels that you couldn't open without getting special abilities. Oh, and multiple endings!

I still liked the not-dying mechanic for some reason. Wario Land 1 directly used the Mario mechanic of little wario -> normal wario -> special hat wario, but I still thought it was a charming game for some reason. Plus it introduced Captain Syrup, mmm.
 
DonMigs85 said:
Actually dog is right. Toythatkills seems to prefer his games on near-autopilot.
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Not really. His post reads more to me as an indictment of games that use combat as a crutch in lieu of more imaginative ways to threaten and challenge the player than anything.

And really, as someone who doesn't mind shooting people in games I didn't think Uncharted 2's combat was all that great either.
 
i see that Wario Land 2 and 3 are already mentioned. good job.

i'll throw in another one:

Mario Kart 64. the only way to actually lose here is come in 4th place a lot. yeah, it sounds odd but finishing 5th or lower lets you retry the race and you can do it infinitely without any penalty for your GP score. finishing 4th, on the other hand, only gives you 1 point and you can end up below 3rd place overall for the GP and lose the cup.

the most recent MKs don't have a retry option in GP modes s,o if you lose, better reset that shit because you ain't winning.
 
tiff said:
Not really. His post reads more to me as an indictment of games that use combat as a crutch in lieu of more imaginative ways to threaten and challenge the player than anything.
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Exactly this.

Sometimes I just like to be immersed in the world of a game, to explore or to do whatever that game allows without pointless combat which is only there because the developer had no other way to add challenge or suspense to their game. There doesn't even need to be challenge sometimes for an experience to be enjoyable. In PoP, jumping around collecting light seeds without the threat of bosses coming and fucking you up was awesome, because all the fun came in the QTE nature of the platforming. Which, fair enough, some people don't like, but I enjoyed it.
 
Barney's Hide n Seek.

I tried running him off a cliff, but the asshole holds up a stop sign. Jerk (Holy crap it shows it in the 4th screenshot on the cover)

2dkd4sw.jpg
 
Fable 2 & Fable 3. You character goes down and you lose any XP you may have collected from the current fight but there is no checkpoint reloading, you can force your character to get back up at any point, there are tradeoffs for whether you get back up straight away or lie on the ground for a while and wait for the enemies to leave. The games are so easy though I don't know anyone who didn't get the "Make it through the game without getting knocked down" achievement in Fable 3 on their first playthrough.
 
The classic Lucas Arts adventure games have no game overs. Well Indiana Jones and the Fate of Atlantis might but there is a "hey look a bird <suckerpunch>" button to use in any of the fist fights that could cause one.

As far as the checkpoint issue in games with combat on a large amount of PC games you can quicksave easily and as often as you want to.
 
tiff said:
This isn't really an answer either but I wish you couldn't die in Minecraft. Combat in that game blows.
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Just set it to peaceful mode in the difficulty and you have the greatest stress-free lego game, at least as long as you hold shift when you walk along cliff ledges to make bridges.

That said, I find that the enemies keep the game engaging, as hunting for rare ores in a cave with your bow at the ready, listening for any sound, is a great experience.
 
tiff said:
Not really. His post reads more to me as an indictment of games that use combat as a crutch in lieu of more imaginative ways to threaten and challenge the player than anything.

And really, as someone who doesn't mind shooting people in games I didn't think Uncharted 2's combat was all that great either.
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Uncharted doesn't have the industry's best shooting mechanics by any means, but it's at least competent. I was irked by his statement that it was "terrible" when it was so obvious that he felt that way because he couldn't perform adequately, not because of flaws in the design. Combat is not a "crutch" in Uncharted. It's the game. Uncharted is a very beautiful, linear third person shooter wrapped in an adventure narrative.

If OP really meant that he wanted to talk about other ways to challenge the player besides combat and death conditions, he should have emphasized that point.
 
Why For? said:
The only one I've played is Prince of Persia 2008.

You really can't die in Prey?
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When you "die" you turn into a spirit and have to traverse a simple spirit world level to come back to life.
 
My first thought was Planescape: Torment. Such a great mechanic, and extra great that they incorporated it into the story of the character.

Also, check out Demon's Souls. It doesn't meet all your OP criteria, but you still don't die, game over, and load a save when you "die."

demons_souls_deluxe_edition_box_art.jpg
 
EatChildren said:
Kirby's Epic Yarn. You lose all your gems and thus get a low score, but it is impossible to 'die'.
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Kirby's Epic Yarn is secretly one of the most morbid games ever made.

You know the unarmed waddle dees in the game? They are literally incapable of hurting you. If they touch you, you harmlessly bounce off each other. And yet, Kirby can grab them and tear them to shreads for literally no reason except the pure joy of ending another's life.

Kirby is one messed up serial killer motherfucker.
 
Stat Flow said:
I hope OP likes running down halls. Lots of fucking halls/linear paths.
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Hell, the majority of games out there are just that. Is there really that much difference between Uncharted, Battle Field X, CoD X, Demons Souls or FFXIII when it comes down to funneling the player along to face wave after wave of your favorite type of enemy? Whether down a hall through a dungeon or down a trail in the jungle very few games are truly really open. Until the AI gets as much attention as graphics have over the years we'll all continue to be sitting in a tube of one form or fashion wiping out hordes of nameless, faceless dumbasses throwing themselves at you, occasionally getting a lucky hit or overwhelming you until you manage to annihilate them only to face the next zerg rush.
 
Diomedeskun said:
Just set it to peaceful mode in the difficulty and you have the greatest stress-free lego game, at least as long as you hold shift when you walk along cliff ledges to make bridges.

That said, I find that the enemies keep the game engaging, as hunting for rare ores in a cave with your bow at the ready, listening for any sound, is a great experience.
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Oh, whoops, never noticed a peaceful mode.

And I like the experience of cave exploring, it's just the combat mechanics themselves are really rough.
hey_it's_that_dog said:
Uncharted doesn't have the industry's best shooting mechanics by any means, but it's at least competent. I was irked by his statement that it was "terrible" when it was so obvious that he felt that way because he couldn't perform adequately, not because of flaws in the design. Combat is not a "crutch" in Uncharted. It's the game. Uncharted is a very beautiful, linear third person shooter wrapped in an adventure narrative.

If OP really meant that he wanted to talk about other ways to challenge the player besides combat and death conditions, he should have emphasized that point.
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I dunno, regarding U2 he kinda said flat out that he'd rather the platforming be the whole game. He didn't say anything about having trouble with it (or any other game, for that matter).
 
Any game with cheats on. Especially in open-world game where you can just do your thing without worrying. If an open-world game isn't fun with cheats on, something's wrong.
 
JimboJones said:
Pokemon doesn't really have any death, if all your Pokemon faint you white out and lose half your money and go back to the pokemon center or somthing but thats pretty lenient I think, you keep all your experience and don't lose hours of progress.

Dragon Quest series does the same thing, at least in 8 and 9 it did.
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Its not even half your money anymore (or at least it wasn't in FireRed).

In Dragon Quest games you tend to get methods to store money as well so less of a death penalty.

radioheadrule83 said:
091231-runner.jpg


If it were possible to die in it, Bit.Trip Runner would create homicidal maniacs out of the most stable gamers
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Depends on if we classify death as loss of progress as there is lots loss of progress happening. So what its 2 minute chunks at most it can be a case of you re-doing the same minute of that over and over and over again and before you know it you've spent 30 minutes and you've still gotten nowhere.

But yeah if it was like other Bit.Trip games as in do the whole of the stage in one sitting...yeah that would drive everyone mad.
 
tiff said:
Oh, whoops, never noticed a peaceful mode.

And I like the experience of cave exploring, it's just the combat mechanics themselves are really rough.

I dunno, regarding U2 he kinda said flat out that he'd rather the platforming be the whole game. He didn't say anything about having trouble with it (or any other game, for that matter).
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Your point gives me pause; you're right that he never explicitly said he had trouble with them. I put two and two together (perhaps inaccurately) and assumed that because he was complaining about dying in games and complaining about Uncharted 2's combat that he in fact was dying a lot because of Uncharted 2's combat.

So I can lighten up on that point, but I still think it's ridiculous that he'd have enjoyed Uncharted more without the combat when the rest of the game is linear and practically automatic.
 
Two pages and no Chakan?

The character is immortal, you have unlimited lives, the whole point of the game is to vanquish all evil so that Chakan is allowed to "rest" IE die.

The ending was incredibly awesome, basically after you finish all 8 worlds Chakan stabs himself with his sword... and doesn't die. Death tells him to look towards the stars, infinite worlds of evil. He will never rest. So awesome!

Intro explains the premise: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4Qp3nqDEtA
 
Saty said:
Any game with cheats on. Especially in open-world game where you can just do your thing without worrying. If an open-world game isn't fun with cheats on, something's wrong.
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Crackdown Keys to the City is unbelievable.
 
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