Games Journalism! Wainwright/Florence/Tomb Raider/Eurogamer/Libel Threats/Doritos

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This wasn't quite it, but that's okay. The story is sort of similar, and in any case kind of amusing. This was back when I worked at the now-defunct Ziff Davis Press. They made computer books. At one point we made one that was rolled up and shipped in a can. It was called "Can Do DOS." No really.

Anyway, I was a book editor, as were all my colleagues. They were our own books that we published. When new ones came in, some of the editors (NOT ME) would take piles of them and sell them to used book stores etc in exchange for credit. I would never have done anything so shady. What *I* did (only once) is trade a couple programming books to my landlord at the time....for a bag of weed. I have no regrets.


None? :D

Thank you for speaking up in this conversation, Blackdragon
 
if you don't understand how that bolded part kills any good points he may have had, and why the the other outlets could care less (especially since HE HIMSELF left eurogamer) you're not seeing things clearly at all.

i can't because he poisoned his points, its also why no other outlet will touch this story.
Out of curiosity, are you British?
 
I think the worst thing about all these Geoff Keighley pics is how uncomfortable he looks in all of them

Like he sold his soul to the devil and is now just realising he could have got a better deal than Spike TV
 
I appreciate the posts and everything you have written has been great but at the very least since it is a hot topic at the moment it seems reasonable that it would be posted for discussion on Kotaku, especially considering the amount of fluff that gets posted at times. Wouldn't this be considered more important information for gamers than a Mario cake?
Inside baseball: we usually have a healthy mixture of short and long stories. Short stories - like, say, a Square Enix sale - take roughly ten minutes to write. Long stories - like, say, a piece about the current state of SC2 or an exposé on Silicon Knights - take significantly longer. I imagine a story like this one (a story that would require a lot of thought, consideration, and reaching out to involved parties) would fall squarely into the latter category.

More inside baseball: one of our goals as a website is to spend our time and energy on long stories that are authoritative and interesting to broader audiences - the type of story we might want to share with friends over a beer, for example. One of the reasons I haven't put time into this story is that it just doesn't fit with those goals, in my mind.

Please don't interpret that as "omg you guys are kowtowing to publishers" or "omg you guys are sticking up for corruption." I've made my opinions on this whole situation quite clear. (Journalists advertising games to win PS3s = gross; journalists working for publishers they cover = despicable. That doesn't mean that those people are gross or despicable, nor does it mean they should be harassed or ostracized - everyone makes mistakes.) It's just not necessarily the type of story I think fits with what our site is trying to do.

I hope that's explained everything, and that even if you disagree with me, you at least understand where I'm coming from. I'll try to answer a couple more questions if I can, but I'm heading out for the night very shortly!
 
So, again, in the case of the writer who had his article on journalistic appearance and ethics censored after it was posted vs the website that censored the article due to someone threatening legal action, you are sorry for the website and criticizing the writer. Because the writer was the underhanded one.
yes, i am. the person who greenlit the story and the person who wrote it were irresponsible with the effect of their words. i'm seeing this from an absolutely unbiased perspective.
 
Embarrasing stuff for all involved, shame that Green and Elliots are better journalists despite not being in that side of the industry anymore. Pretty shitty how they can easily say "Im not a journalist!" to cover their asses while sneering about forum conspiracies on twitter.
 
Cover what you want.

The reason your tweet was lame was because you were taking part in this weird circle jerk of people trying to make this issue a joke and sweep it under the rug. If you wanted to stay out of this you should have ignored N'Gai's deliberately dense and reductive thoughts.
N'Gai is a great guy, and I like him a lot. I interpreted his tweet as a silly snarky comment, and responded accordingly. I promise you that I don't consider this issue to be a joke, and I'm sorry if it came across that way.
 
Embarrasing stuff for all involved, shame that Green and Elliots are better journalists despite not being in that side of the industry anymore. Pretty shitty how they can easily say "Im not a journalist!" to cover their asses while sneering about forum conspiracies on twitter.
For people who write words for a living they sure are awful at communicating with their primary audience.

Don't make fun of us on Twitter, engage us in conversation and discussion like normal human beings. They may actually earn a little respect from the people that make up a part of their primary demographic. Ya know, work together instead of butting heads all the time. I don't like the tense relationship between gaming forums and games journalists, although I 100% understand why they're so put off by it.
 
Inside baseball: we usually have a healthy mixture of short and long stories. Short stories - like, say, a Square Enix sale - take roughly ten minutes to write. Long stories - like, say, a piece about the current state of SC2 or an exposé on Silicon Knights - take significantly longer. I imagine a story like this one (a story that would require a lot of thought, consideration, and reaching out to involved parties) would fall squarely into the latter category.

More inside baseball: one of our goals as a website is to spend our time and energy on long stories that are authoritative and interesting to broader audiences - the type of story we might want to share with friends over a beer, for example. One of the reasons I haven't put time into this story is that it just doesn't fit with those goals, in my mind.

Please don't interpret that as "omg you guys are kowtowing to publishers" or "omg you guys are sticking up for corruption." I've made my opinions on this whole situation quite clear. (Journalists advertising games to win PS3s = gross; journalists working for publishers they cover = despicable. That doesn't mean that those people are gross or despicable, nor does it mean they should be harassed or ostracized - everyone makes mistakes.) It's just not necessarily the type of story I think fits with what our site is trying to do.

I hope that's explained everything, and that even if you disagree with me, you at least understand where I'm coming from. I'll try to answer a couple more questions if I can, but I'm heading out for the night very shortly!
Been a while since I've visited kotaku often, but I recall y'all often post 'blips' to interesting articles around the net. A lot of good articles out today. Just saying :p

It's fine if you don't want to commit to write something out (most of the points are already covered).
 
Associate Editor (entry level) usually starts around $30,000 USD
Senior Editor is around $50,000 USD

Management and Director level positions will make more, but the vast majority of the people who are actually writing content are earning between $30-$50k/year in the US.
Dang. I have to get busy working on a journalism degree. Or be a massive fan.
 
What I don't understand is how can you consider your site to be about gaming when you will gladly report about a guy killing his wife by kissing her or a chinese teacher that dresses up as a maid because her class got good grade but then won't report about a subject that can't be more about the gaming industry than that...
I think you should ask that of Stephen Totilo, since he's at the reins at Kotaku. Maybe someone else over at Kotaku actually wants to write about this, who knows...

the best part of the article.
Why are you so insistent on 'movin on' when a lot of people care about this? Are you that self-centered tothink your assessment of the situation is the only valid one?
 
if you don't understand how that bolded part kills any good points he may have had, and why the the other outlets could care less (especially since HE HIMSELF left eurogamer) you're not seeing things clearly at all.


i can't because he poisoned his points, its also why no other outlet will touch this story.
Could you at least try to be factual, how many summary posts to do need to see containing articles written on this topic?

I notice you still haven't responded to any of his points, it's almost as if you have nothing of worth to say.
 
There is so much dirt going on about gaming journos, you just know where to look. I saw/read so much shady shit from them over the years, its only a matter of being at the right place, at the right time.
 
I think you should ask that of Stephen Totilo, since he's at the reins at Kotaku. Maybe someone else over at Kotaku actually wants to write about this, who knows...


Why are you so insistent on 'movin on' when a lot of people care about this? Are you that self-centered tothink your assessment of the situation is the only valid one?
because people are now getting upset that other gaming sites to chime in on something that they really don't have a way to, there's no story here, just a lot of drama, the sweetheart relationship between pr and journos is a HUGE issue, just not one that can be talked about clearly with this specific situation.

Could you at least try to be factual, how many summary posts to do need to see containing articles written on this topic?

I notice you still haven't responded to any of his points, it's almost as if you have nothing of worth to say.
who's posts? i don't even know what you're reffering to.
 
Inside baseball: we usually have a healthy mixture of short and long stories. Short stories - like, say, a Square Enix sale - take roughly ten minutes to write. Long stories - like, say, a piece about the current state of SC2 or an exposé on Silicon Knights - take significantly longer. I imagine a story like this one (a story that would require a lot of thought, consideration, and reaching out to involved parties) would fall squarely into the latter category.

More inside baseball: one of our goals as a website is to spend our time and energy on long stories that are authoritative and interesting to broader audiences - the type of story we might want to share with friends over a beer, for example. One of the reasons I haven't put time into this story is that it just doesn't fit with those goals, in my mind.

Please don't interpret that as "omg you guys are kowtowing to publishers" or "omg you guys are sticking up for corruption." I've made my opinions on this whole situation quite clear. (Journalists advertising games to win PS3s = gross; journalists working for publishers they cover = despicable. That doesn't mean that those people are gross or despicable, nor does it mean they should be harassed or ostracized - everyone makes mistakes.) It's just not necessarily the type of story I think fits with what our site is trying to do.

I hope that's explained everything, and that even if you disagree with me, you at least understand where I'm coming from. I'll try to answer a couple more questions if I can, but I'm heading out for the night very shortly!
I understand and accept your position. I still find it disappointing that it isn't worth the effort to write up a rundown of what has happened. In any case the vast majority of gaming sites are of the same opinion, in regards to reporting the brouhaha as you.
 
I understand and accept your position. I still find it disappointing that it isn't worth the effort to write up a rundown of what has happened. In any case the vast majority of gaming sites are of the same opinion, in regards to reporting the brouhaha as you.
what about it do you think warrants speaking about? i really can't see how they can touch this without doing what Rab florence did.
 
Inside baseball: we usually have a healthy mixture of short and long stories. Short stories - like, say, a Square Enix sale - take roughly ten minutes to write. Long stories - like, say, a piece about the current state of SC2 or an exposé on Silicon Knights - take significantly longer. I imagine a story like this one (a story that would require a lot of thought, consideration, and reaching out to involved parties) would fall squarely into the latter category.

More inside baseball: one of our goals as a website is to spend our time and energy on long stories that are authoritative and interesting to broader audiences - the type of story we might want to share with friends over a beer, for example. One of the reasons I haven't put time into this story is that it just doesn't fit with those goals, in my mind.

Please don't interpret that as "omg you guys are kowtowing to publishers" or "omg you guys are sticking up for corruption." I've made my opinions on this whole situation quite clear. (Journalists advertising games to win PS3s = gross; journalists working for publishers they cover = despicable. That doesn't mean that those people are gross or despicable, nor does it mean they should be harassed or ostracized - everyone makes mistakes.) It's just not necessarily the type of story I think fits with what our site is trying to do.

I hope that's explained everything, and that even if you disagree with me, you at least understand where I'm coming from. I'll try to answer a couple more questions if I can, but I'm heading out for the night very shortly!
Well, thank you for being honest on what your website is trying to do. Unfortunately, what it's trying to do is not something I can respect or do anything except loathe.
 

NervousXtian

Thought Emoji Movie was good. Take that as you will.
He grew it himself, in his own hydroponic lab. Best landlord ever!
(Except when he and his girlfriend would have sex in the middle of the night to the sound of "Papa Don't Preach" in the apartment below us.)
I'm putting that in the "worth putting up with" category.

For people who write words for a living they sure are awful at communicating with their primary audience.

Don't make fun of us on Twitter, engage us in conversation and discussion like normal human beings. They may actually earn a little respect from the people that make up a part of their primary demographic. Ya know, work together instead of butting heads all the time. I don't like the tense relationship between gaming forums and games journalists, although I 100% understand why they're so put off by it.
Please don't say "us" when you "me". Pretty much everything I ever see you post is negative in some way towards the industry if my memory serves me.
 

NervousXtian

Thought Emoji Movie was good. Take that as you will.
what about it do you think warrants speaking about? i really can't see how they can touch this without doing what Rab florence did.
My wife does some advertising for the company she works for.. she deals directly with marketing/pr guys... let's just the radio guys give way more swag away to ad buyers than they do people who listen.
 
jschreier here has an opportunity to engage in actual, honest to goodness, journalism, and instead he's content with Mario themed wedding cakes and Street Fighter cosplay. Listen man, I think you're a decent guy, but you're being disingenuous if you're saying that this isn't real news. Show us your true investigative writing chops, and prove us wrong.
 
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