Games Journalism! Wainwright/Florence/Tomb Raider/Eurogamer/Libel Threats/Doritos

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Margalis

Banned
Aug 7, 2008
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I have like 40 tweets joking about the presidential debate. Do you think I consider the presidential debate a joke? Come on, man. Most of my Twitter feed consists of jokes, because I try to avoid having serious conversations on a platform where messages are limited to 140 characters a pop. Did you not see me write my personal opinions about what happened?
The problem is that every time something like this happens without fail almost every site refuses to respond in any way and the conversation is solely limited to dismissive jokes on Twitter and wagon-circling.

The fact that you made a joke on Twitter is not a problem. The fact that you made a joke that bolstered and agreed with what N'Gai was saying - something that was quite frankly fucking stupid and illustrates that he doesn't even understand what the conversation is about - is a problem.

That's your public response on this issue: to jokingly agree with a moronic dismissal. Then we're supposed to believe that you take this seriously. Derp?

People on Neogaf are tired of very legitimate issues getting dismissed by people taking pot-shots at message boards on Twitter.

Which is what you did while posting in this thread. Lol.
 

Lime

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Apr 27, 2008
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I'm not saying Nintendo is blameless. I am saying they are better than most. But that's my opinion, and I'm a blatant fanboy, so you can safely disregard my opinion.
lol okay :) You can console yourself with the fact that Rich Stanton aired some weeks back that Nintendo was the cheapest in terms of PR. So they probably don't dole out the amount of swag that other companies do.
 

GillianSeed79

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Jan 8, 2009
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Not everyone should write about it, but every gaming website should. Especially the ones which basically don't discriminate at all in regards to what kinds of stories they'll post.
That and it's always good to scrutinize your own profession once and awhile. Hell, NPR has an entire show, "On The Media", that does that every week. Of course, if you are a journalist you always try not to become part of the story, but I think it's different if you approach it from the angle of how do/should journalists be doing their jobs. There's ample topics up for discussion, especially if you look at "On the Media" as an example.
 

Oersted

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Mar 14, 2012
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Oh, and another thing: I agree that games media should always be scrutinizing itself and trying to get better. I don't necessarily agree that games media should be scrutinizing and criticizing each other, you know?

Not critizing and acting like nothing happened won´t help getting better. But once again: Would it be too much just asking him for a official statement?


I took the image you embedded of someone walking toward an exit to mean you were saying he should get out.
I get why you understood it wrong, but once and for all: I never said that and it wasn´t my intention. Sorry.
 

Makonero

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Apr 13, 2012
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What do you mean?

What I'm saying is that it's pretty black and white to me that journalists should not be advertising for PS3s or working for companies that they cover.
And what we're saying is that from our perspective, it is obviously not black and white. Multiple members of your peers have been called out for unethical behavior. This tarnishes all of you, except for those who have actively spoken out against these practices. Assuming that everyone already knows that this doesn't happen is naive, when we're hearing that it DOES happen.

We are interested in this story because we need to know who to trust.
 

Mutanthands

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Jul 19, 2005
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Isn't the point of writing articles to satiate a demand from the audience? People read reviews of new books, movies, music, games, etc because the demand is there, just as much as people read the Economist or National Geographic because articles from those publications usually deal with current events happening in those parts of the world.

Even a blind person could see that the demand is there to see opinion pieces about this issue. Unfortunately it is more than ironic to see that the only messages being communicated through the lines are seemingly coming from the usual names who fight against this bullshit practice from the beginning.
We do need more coverage. Dogging individuals in the GAF community is not the way to do it.
 

Uthred

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Nov 24, 2011
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what the heck is this, because i don't agree with the pitchfork mob voicing a different perspective my post history needs to be scrutinized? i have people calling for me to be banned for dissenting? is this really whats good? for the record (sorry i missed where you asked) i wish i was a journalist of some sort, i had a facebook page that i wrote movie reviews that nobody read, but that's the extent.
Nobody is complaining because you are "dissenting" its the manner of your dissent i.e. your intellectually dishonest dlibearately obtuse attempts to stifle the discourse that people object to. On a personal level I object to you not capitalising your I's, feel that oppression bearing down on you as you fight your lone battle against the pitchfork wielding mob.
 

El Sloth

Banned
Dec 13, 2009
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I'll sum up my perspective on it like this:

Writer Ron Jonson sneaked into the Bilderberg Bohemian Grove ceremony (another reading recommendation: http://www.amazon.com/Them-Adventures-Extremists-Jon-Ronson/dp/0743233212 ). As part of his reporting for his book he had crackpot Alex Jones with him (basically combining two threads of the same story about conspiracy theorists in one fucking hilarious field trip). All Jonson was going to do to get in was dress like a wealthy asshole and wear an entitled expression as he got to the gates. It worked. Jones, however, suspected that Jonson was a Bilderberg spy and instead climbed a cliff and tumbled through poison oak before crashing the party like a less funny Chris Farley. Jonson documented what he saw as an absurd and slightly perverted crypto-fraternity party for dull dickheads with money, time, and ego to spare. Jones, of course, was convinced that he had tumbled through the gates of hell itself and was happy to survive his encounter with Satan. Those who look for literal money hats are like Jones in that they allow the dudes at Bohemian Grove to laugh off their lunatic detractors. Meanwhile, with his more measured approach, Jonson is able to start unravelling a real and no less interesting story.
I didn't think I would come away from this thread with two books on the way and less money in my bank account.
 

braves01

Banned
Nov 8, 2008
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Considering how small and incestuous the job market in the area is it's not surprising nobody wants to really touch this.
Definitely. As I see it, gaming journalists have to decide as a profession that everyone's gonna pounce on people who don't play by the rules and adhere to standards of integrity. Otherwise, the "cheaters" will rake in the dough from publishers who want good press and everyone who doesn't play ball gets left out in the cold. When influential sites like Kotaku refuse to report on this stuff because "it's not interesting," it sends the message that sites better just take publisher's money and deliver the scores, integrity be damned.
 

jschreier

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Jan 6, 2011
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So, if you're uncomfortable criticising other sites, will you be prepared to criticise Kotaku?
I criticize Kotaku (especially my own work on Kotaku) all the time! Just not publicly. :D Internal criticism can lead to improvement; public criticism leads to nothing but embarrassment. That's one of the reasons I try to think twice before publicly criticizing one of my colleagues or fellow media outlets. It's often a lose-lose situation. People are far more inclined to listen to advice or criticism when you approach them privately and politely rather than calling them out on a website read by almost 5 million people a month, you know?

Anyways, I've really gotta go now cause I'm late for a thing, but thank you all for hearing me out and I hope I explained my reasoning well. I enjoyed reading your thoughts and opinions, even when I disagreed with you all. I'll try to pop back on later this weekend if I have some time and take more questions.
 

NintendoGal

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Oct 3, 2005
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I criticize Kotaku (especially my own work on Kotaku) all the time! Just not publicly. :D Internal criticism can lead to improvement; public criticism leads to nothing but embarrassment. That's one of the reasons I try to think twice before publicly criticizing one of my colleagues or fellow media outlets. It's often a lose-lose situation. People are far more inclined to listen to advice or criticism when you approach them privately and politely rather than calling them out on a website read by almost 5 million people a month, you know?

Anyways, I've really gotta go now cause I'm late for a thing, but thank you all for hearing me out and I hope I explained my reasoning well. I enjoyed reading your thoughts and opinions, even when I disagreed with you all. I'll try to pop back on later this weekend if I have some time and take more questions.
Eh, I do the peer to peer approach on calling bullshit and it never works. I just get shrugs.
 

JABEE

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May 19, 2010
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What do a PS3 contest and a journalist who consulted for a company she covered have to do with the way I cover games?
Would you say Gerstmann-gate was an industry story? It isn't about how you personally play games, but the way games are covered as a whole. Someone had their article censored because they shined a light on oblivious writers stepping over the line. He then went on to say that it was not only MCV, but other outside interests that wanted that part of the article taken out. Gaf users dug up a relationship with Square and how the person who sued Florence worked for Square Enix and jumped into the industry by using nepotism. I understand how that isn't an industry story.
 

lednerg

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Feb 27, 2006
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I criticize Kotaku (especially my own work on Kotaku) all the time! Just not publicly. :D Internal criticism can lead to improvement; public criticism leads to nothing but embarrassment. That's one of the reasons I try to think twice before publicly criticizing one of my colleagues or fellow media outlets. It's often a lose-lose situation. People are far more inclined to listen to advice or criticism when you approach them privately and politely rather than calling them out on a website read by almost 5 million people a month, you know?

Anyways, I've really gotta go now cause I'm late for a thing, but thank you all for hearing me out and I hope I explained my reasoning well. I enjoyed reading your thoughts and opinions, even when I disagreed with you all. I'll try to pop back on later this weekend if I have some time and take more questions.
Thanks for your all your insight on the matter. :) You didn't have to come in here and say a word, so it's cool that you did.
 

antitrop

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Feb 19, 2011
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Thanks for your all your insight on the matter. :) You didn't have to come in here and say a word, so it's cool that you did.
I respect any man who has the balls to come in and discuss an issue like this, even if it is just on the internet.

Putting yourself out there like that isn't easy, especially when you're walking in with an enormous bulls-eye on your head in an already heated discussion.
 

RedNumberFive

Banned
Oct 6, 2006
9,556
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Chicagoland
No, not really! I see my job as trying to inform, entertain, and tell interesting stories to readers. While sometimes I might talk about my personal feelings or thoughts or life, I think those stories should usually be about the industry and culture I cover, not the people who cover it.
Fair enough, I just thought that you had the opportunity to ascend past reviews of japanese love pillows. This would have been a prime opportunity to write a feature that wouldn't just focus on the lowest common denominator.
 

NoirVisage

Banned
Sep 12, 2011
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Nobody is complaining because you are "dissenting" its the manner of your dissent i.e. your intellectually dishonest dlibearately obtuse attempts to stifle the discourse that people object to. On a personal level I object to you not capitalising your I's, feel that oppression bearing down on you as you fight your lone battle against the pitchfork wielding mob.
i'm not battling "against" the mob, at least i wasn't before a few of them turned their knives on me asking that i be banned.. i'm letting my voice be heard on a message board, a clearly unpopular voice, but a voice nonetheless. i don't care about you as a person nor your opinions on my grammar or lack thereof, so keep your personal insights.
 

Kinyou

Member
Sep 12, 2009
48,208
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Ugh Gaming Journalism is such BULLSHIT

Wait... is this a critic of games journalism, or is it a critic of the critic of games journalism?

Because saying "nu uh! That isn't a super short skirt, those are just super small shorts!" is kind of pathetic criticism.
 

Branduil

Member
Sep 20, 2006
64,608
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Excellent Eriador
I criticize Kotaku (especially my own work on Kotaku) all the time! Just not publicly. :D Internal criticism can lead to improvement; public criticism leads to nothing but embarrassment. That's one of the reasons I try to think twice before publicly criticizing one of my colleagues or fellow media outlets. It's often a lose-lose situation. People are far more inclined to listen to advice or criticism when you approach them privately and politely rather than calling them out on a website read by almost 5 million people a month, you know?

Anyways, I've really gotta go now cause I'm late for a thing, but thank you all for hearing me out and I hope I explained my reasoning well. I enjoyed reading your thoughts and opinions, even when I disagreed with you all. I'll try to pop back on later this weekend if I have some time and take more questions.
Public criticism is necessary in things as important as this when private criticism fails.
 

Risette

A Good Citizen
Aug 27, 2007
12,350
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I do feel sorry for him but I've teared up laughing twice now while looking at that picture.
It's basically the defining image of games journlolism. Everything in one image. It's too perfect. I can't stop laughing at it.

I feel sorry for him, but then I also feel sorry for gaming. :(
 

FStop7

Banned
Jan 8, 2009
30,650
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Los Angeles
What 'game journalism' lacks is the ombudsman. If anything, that seems to be a role taken up by people like Jeff Green and Shawn Elliott in their free time, which is great - but there need to be active members of the 'game press' who also do the same.
 

RedNumberFive

Banned
Oct 6, 2006
9,556
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Thanks for your all your insight on the matter. :) You didn't have to come in here and say a word, so it's cool that you did.
And THIS.

I apologize if and when I come off harsh. I really do appreciate your open and honest dialog here. I'm just really invested in the conversation at this point, and was hoping that this would be a tipping point for more professional and poignant game journalism.
 

NoirVisage

Banned
Sep 12, 2011
6,750
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Fair enough, I just thought that you had the opportunity to ascend past reviews of japanese love pillows. This would have been a prime opportunity to write a feature that wouldn't just focus on the lowest common denominator.
ha ha wow, thats how we treat journos when they dare speak directly to us..
 

Oersted

Member
Mar 14, 2012
32,330
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I criticize Kotaku (especially my own work on Kotaku) all the time! Just not publicly. :D Internal criticism can lead to improvement; public criticism leads to nothing but embarrassment. That's one of the reasons I try to think twice before publicly criticizing one of my colleagues or fellow media outlets. It's often a lose-lose situation. People are far more inclined to listen to advice or criticism when you approach them privately and politely rather than calling them out on a website read by almost 5 million people a month, you know?

Anyways, I've really gotta go now cause I'm late for a thing, but thank you all for hearing me out and I hope I explained my reasoning well. I enjoyed reading your thoughts and opinions, even when I disagreed with you all. I'll try to pop back on later this weekend if I have some time and take more questions.
The sad thing is, you are one of the good guys.
 

Uthred

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Nov 24, 2011
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i'm not battling "against" the mob, at least i wasn't before a few of them turned their knives on me askign that i be banned.. i'm letting my voice be heard on a message board, a clearly unpopular voice, but a voice nonetheless. i don't care about you or your opinions on my grammar or lack thereof, so keep your personal insights.
Keep them where? I'll keep them (in an unspecified location as you requested) just as soon as you keep yours there as well. You were the one who painted yourself, and continue to do so, as a put upon martyr who's a lone voice in the wilderness surrounded by unthinking reactionaries. Or maybe you were using that positive connotation of "pitchfork wielding mob" ?
 

TheSeks

Blinded by the luminous glory that is David Bowie's physical manifestation.
Feb 14, 2009
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Anyways, I've really gotta go now cause I'm late for a thing, but thank you all for hearing me out and I hope I explained my reasoning well. I enjoyed reading your thoughts and opinions, even when I disagreed with you all. I'll try to pop back on later this weekend if I have some time and take more questions.
AKA: "I'm bailing before I dig myself into a hole deeper because I don't have the balls to cover a story that deserves covering."

Don't let the door hit you where the good lord cracked you:

 

Uthred

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Nov 24, 2011
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You know what he meant.

They are sexualized video game characters who are drawn specifically to look like they're 12 years old. Even if it's not criminal it's still kind of sick.
What's sexualised about them? Apart from the pose of the girl on the right (and thats extremely arguable) theres nothing explicitly sexualised about them.
 

Kinyou

Member
Sep 12, 2009
48,208
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AKA: "I'm bailing before I dig myself into a hole deeper because I don't have the balls to cover a story that deserves covering."

Don't let the door hit you where the good lord cracked you:

I don't think this type of behavior leads to good discussions.
 

EternalGamer

Banned
Nov 6, 2006
4,455
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I can't help it. That Keighley picture is still one lf the funniest things I have ever seen.

It isn't just about videogame press, I see it as a beautiful commentary on American Pop-culture. Mountain Dew Master Chief, Jeff's expression, the pile of trash food they expect me to want because "double xp!!"

Everything about it is just awesome.
 

antitrop

Member
Feb 19, 2011
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Colorado Springs, CO
twitter.com
I can't help it. That Keighley picture is still one lf the funniest things I have ever seen.

It isn't just about videogame press, I see it as a beautiful commentary on American Pop-culture. Mountain Dew Master Chief, Jeff's expression, the pile of trash food they expect me to want because "double xp!!"

Everything about it is just awesome.
Can you blame them, though? It's about money, though. I don't really care that Doritos wants to sponsor bonus experience points in Halo. That doesn't bother me one bit. In fact, I'm not even sure why it should in the first place. It just kind of is what it is.

It's all for business. Making money isn't easy.

The picture is still hilarious, regardless.
 
May 20, 2007
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LDN
i'm not battling "against" the mob, at least i wasn't before a few of them turned their knives on me asking that i be banned.. i'm letting my voice be heard on a message board, a clearly unpopular voice, but a voice nonetheless. i don't care about you as a person nor your opinions on my grammar or lack thereof, so keep your personal insights.
Care to use that voice to actually comment on the points made in the original article? All I see you doing is attacking Rab & claiming that everyone should move on & forget the incestuous relationship between (some elements of)the gaming press & publishers.
 
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