billy beane
Banned
I agree.Jeff, I think you should write a book.
I'd buy a copy.
EDIT: I think Jeff should get a Kickstater going for this.
I agree.Jeff, I think you should write a book.
It´s pretty hard to keep up with this thread, so I have no idea if this has been mentioned before. But do you guys really think you can change how the industry works...? it´s the same old story all the time, some reviewer or PR person fucks up, and releases some "suspect" news that shouldn´t be on the net for people to read.. forums have a discussion for some days/weeks, and think they are entitled to a better treatment from the "games journalists"
do you remember Battlefield 3..? the game that launched last year.. and reviewers (in scandinavia at least) had to fill out a questionnaire if they wanted to review the game before it hit the shops..?
if the reviewers "failed" the questionnaire, they where not allowed an early copy.. That was a questionnaire from the PR company.. crazy but true. We discussed it, but nothing ever changed..
How do you guys intent to change the industry this time around..?
Unless I missed something, I saw nothing. I guess it all depends on how much of a "glass half empty" sort of person you are.Can you tell me truthfully that what I predicted in my previous post hasn't already come to pass?
Can you tell me truthfully that what I predicted in my previous post hasn't already come to pass?
I often sweat decisions about whether or not to post things like that 3DS delivery, because I know how it can look. But it was just too weird. Sometimes I feel like people need to see the insane lengths that some companies go through to make their product stand out from the crowd of junk that crosses our desks every day. In the case of that 3DS video, I knew it would look flashy, but I also felt like people needed to know how fucking weird this business can be sometimes. In other cases, I might not say much publicly because I don't want to give any extra airtime to a brand. I got an autographed (by game developers) bag of chips with a video game logo on it today. Given the current promotions out there I'm sure it's not hard to figure out what I'm talking about. But if I promote their product directly by mentioning it by name on Twitter, they win. And fuck that.
Anyway, I think a lot of that fancy delivery stuff is more meant for the mainstream press. Obviously people like us would cover the 3DS, we're a game site. But if you're a PR person that needs to catch the attention of a tech editor at a newspaper that maybe writes one game article a month, you need to include some sort of stupid flag in the package. You need to send the chain of girls. You need to hope that you make an impression and get that writer to take one extra look at your product before tossing it aside. Because that guy reaches people who don't already read game sites and see game trailers and memorize game release dates. That guy isn't preaching to the choir. That guy is, like, the PR holy grail or something. If he writes about your product, millions of people who might not have heard about your game otherwise now know it exists.
One of these co-host on Weekend Confirmed is now revealed to work for game media outlet involved in directly giving people money from publishers to post video content. Money. Not just free games. There is nothing "shady" about this shit. It is straight up disgusting. Machinima was given both free games and monetary compensation by EA for posting early videos of Need For Speed Most Wanted.
Here is Andrea Rene, who works for Machinima and co-hosts Weekend Confirmed, tweeting that everyone should check out those awesome Need for Speed videos:
https://twitter.com/nanea/status/261936098522042368
And here she is promoting her own video of Need for Speed:
https://twitter.com/andrearene/status/261869514629738498
Just as a reminder, though, here is what Andrea said on Weekend Confirmed this past week:
She said this the day after she posted her Need for Speed video.
There were like a dozen girls parading in the 3DS, how many ladies will show up to give you a WiiU?
There were like a dozen girls parading in the 3DS, how many ladies will show up to give you a WiiU?
Sounds hawt. What's the hashtag for that?You can enter a contest for a hands-on at the WiiU tour.
One of these co-host on Weekend Confirmed is now revealed to work for game media outlet involved in directly giving people money from publishers to post video content. Money. Not just free games. There is nothing "shady" about this shit. It is straight up disgusting. Machinima was given both free games and monetary compensation by EA for posting early videos of Need For Speed Most Wanted.
Here is Andrea Rene, who works for Machinima and co-hosts Weekend Confirmed, tweeting that everyone should check out those awesome Need for Speed videos:
https://twitter.com/nanea/status/261936098522042368
And here she is promoting her own video of Need for Speed:
https://twitter.com/andrearene/status/261869514629738498
Just as a reminder, though, here is what Andrea said on Weekend Confirmed this past week:
She said this the day after she posted her Need for Speed video.
I think this one is rather interesting as well, given the text of the original article by Rab Florence:
oh lord
and that's the same person who went on a podcast and dismissed what Florence had pointed out? Give me a fucking break.
Wow if that's true I want to hear a response to this.
Judging for her comments on the podcast: I'm not a journalist, don't hold me to the standards of real journalism.
This goes beyond the standards of journalism, if this is true, it's some straight up payola shit
I was just about to write the same thing. It became almost unbearable on the latest WC episode when she advertised that marvel game.not surprised about rene, she's always sounded like PR. never expressed any critical thought or insight on WC.
AR: "We get these products for free to talk about them because in order for us to you know, be competitive in the industry, we need to get the games beforehand. Reviewers want to know before the game's out and I just, like, think this whole idea, you know, that we shouldn't get stuff for free or this like payola system, like believing that exists, is such bull-cocky I tell you."
AR: "The idea that we shouldn't have personal relationship with people in PR is silly."
GL: "But do you have personal relationships where you get free PS3s?"
AR: "No, but that'd be awesome. I have personal relationships with people at specific PR companies but I'm not putting a score on that game. Somebody else at the company is doing that"
Uh....yes?
Is this a trick question? What you predicted would happen did not happen - full stop.
To people that didn't read redfalcon transcript of the show or listened to the last Weekend Confirmed episode.
Andrea Rene quotes:
To people that want to listen the talk about this whole issue start at 63 minutes mark.
Weekend Confirmed 136
Suddenly Andrea's statements on Weekend Confirmed make a lot more sense. She works for Machinima. They got PAID money by EA to post early videos of Need for Speed.
To people that didn't read redfalcon transcript of the show or listened to the last Weekend Confirmed episode.
Andrea Rene quotes:
To people that want to listen the talk about this whole issue start at 63 minutes mark.
Weekend Confirmed 136
It's not sudden (and my view is not that of the other poster's comment). There's some great insight and discussion going on in this thread and elsewhere, however much of it's drowned out by the gibbering, flawed dissections, and venomous reactions of those (including some "journalists") who seem to have just had their eyes opened for the first time as to how the world works, and are taking it far too personally. Can you tell me truthfully that what I predicted in my previous post hasn't already come to pass?
Why do people lie like this? Did she really think people wouldn't watch her online presence after those comments?
Or maybe she knew but still had to do that stuff on twitter because she probably wouldn't be paid otherwise.
Apart from anything else, it is no exaggeration to say that in the last few days people from outside Eurogamer have screamed at me about publishing Rab's column. It was very unpopular with a lot of people who I have grown to know and like over the last 13 years. I will have to look them in the eye forever more and some won't forgive me.
Tom Bramwell said:Apart from anything else, it is no exaggeration to say that in the last few days people from outside Eurogamer have screamed at me about publishing Rab's column. It was very unpopular with a lot of people who I have grown to know and like over the last 13 years. I will have to look them in the eye forever more and some won't forgive me.
In case Totilo comes in on this page - why hasn't there been an in-depth article about the PS3 Skyrim debacle and how Bethesda (or Sony) allowed that nonsense to go to retail? What about the current PS3 dlc situation? Why aren't those kinds of stories being investigated instead of Silicon Knights?
Eurogamer have finally put up an Editor's column: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-10-30-editors-blog-lost-humanity-18-aftermath
One objection to this action that I've read online is that there was no libel. All I can really say is that the advice we received meant that removing the offending text and apologising to Lauren was the right course of action to take.
So, he's saying that he took legal advice and was told that she might have a case against them?
So, he's saying that he took legal advice and was told that she might have a case against them?
Eurogamer have finally put up an Editor's column: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-10-30-editors-blog-lost-humanity-18-aftermath
The answer is that Lauren Wainwright threatened us with legal action and made it clear she would not back down, at which point we took legal advice and ultimately made the decision to remove the paragraphs.
Rock Paper Shotgun said:RPS’s position on this matter is as follows: We fully support Robert Florence (who is also a freelancer for us), and think his article raises important issues. We understand Eurogamer’s position that when legal threats are made, with the UK’s despicable libel laws, the burden of time and finances to fight any such threats is gruesome. However, we’re also disappointed that Eurogamer didn’t stand up to these threats and call Wainwright’s bluff. It is our opinion that the correct response from Wainwright would have been to request a response column on Eurogamer to make her argument, or at least post a response on any of the public outlets to which she has access. Silencing journalists is a terrible practice.
Well now there can be no doubt. She's the culprit. She's the one that ultimately cost the guy his job because he took a stand. Now I don't feel sorry for anything she gets.
So, the Skyrim PS3 debacle.. we wrote numerous posts about bugs on it and then did this story: http://kotaku.com/5885358/why-skyrim-didnt-play-nice-with-the-ps3
not totilo said:John Walker has written for Rock Paper Shotgun with their position on the matter.
You are being hyper sensitive about this.
This is a rough and tumble thread, for sure. But it isn't drowned in venom and flawed reasoning. Maybe for some people it is introducing issues that they never suspected as existing in the fist place. For others it's revealing certain things that they accepted were way outside what they were told before was the hard limit of the sort of dirty laundry that exists in games media.
The people who think that this is boring and shouldn't be taken personally have perhaps failed to shed light on the subject that would stop people being surprised. It does not make them look good to look like a bored and aloof insider at this point.
This excuse is such horseshit."The idea that we shouldn't have personal relationship with people in PR is silly."
The trials and pitfalls facing the modern game journalist, and what it means to be a critic
Below is Steven Pooles Trigger Happy column from our latest issue, E247. While print deadlines dictate that this was written some weeks ago, its content feels particularly relevant following recent events.
It's good to see Tom Bramwell's stance on this. Eurogamer were clearly backed into a corner by the threat of legal action. I think the actions of MCV/Intent/Lauren Wainwright were despicable.
I also appreciate his honesty on the potential influence of PR on games writing and whether all games journalists are a little bit compromised, even if they don't realise it. That there was such a negative reaction from some of Bramwell's peers shows that Rab Florence's article was hitting close to home and that Eurogamer were right to publish it. I was angry at Eurogamer for making the changes in the first place, but now I understand why they did it.
Eurogamer have finally put up an Editor's column: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-10-30-editors-blog-lost-humanity-18-aftermath
The second main reaction seems to have come mostly from people who work in the games industry - it's all over my Twitter feed, anyway - and it's that a lot of people want to forget about the whole thing and move on. It's just video games, they say. It's not as important as all this. Well, I don't want to move on. It is important. And I don't want to move on for the same reasons I published Rab's column in the first place: I believe there is a lot of truth in what he says.
The issue with PS3 Skyrim is how was it released in the state it was in and how was that not noticed by reviewers?
It wasn't noticed by reviewers because apparently Bethesda refused to send out PS3 review copies. Of course that didn't stop reviewers from copy and pasting the 360 review as the PS3 review.