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[Waluigilicious]

We grew up playing Mario Party games thinking some games are easy wins (like ones where boxes shuffle and you have to guess the right one).

Little did we know that you actually do have to concentrate a little to get them right!

 

[-shadow-]

Ahah aye, I've noticed that playing about with a switchless 50/60Hz Mega Drive. In a few odd cases, for instance the original Streets of Rage, some games have Japanese text when put into a JP console. A few Master System ones even flash the Mark III logo temporarily.

The odd thing is that the completely unoptimized games are most desirable in these instances, as they'll convert nicely to a forced 60Hz. Otherwise, you may get gameplay glitches or the music playing the music too quickly.

Well that is something I didn't know. It's cool though to know that some games even switched languages depending on the region. Or the Mark III specifically. That's awesome!
But it's funny to see how the terrible mess back then is now the preferable option. A friend if mine has the Retron and was surprised by how the original Sonic ran at its intended speed. Was pretty funny to see his expression when that happened.

TV shows run at different speeds? What

Honestly, PAL isn't worse or anything. It's just that there were two standards and most consoles came out of the NTSC world that turned it into a problem.

Even the "international standard 60hz" is pretty BS tbh.

Yeah TV shows and films that are recorded at 24fps are here being aired at 25fps. It's a 4% increase in speed and it's pretty much entirely neglectful. But it's still there regardless. Everything is just ever so slightly higher pitched. I've heard a lot of people complaining about this. But it sure it a hell of a lot better than the 3:2 pulldown.

 

[jizzlobber]

man, I remember the day I bought a new TV purely because PAL Dreamcast games had a 60hz option... first game I tested was crazy taxi and it blew... my ... mind!!

the game went from fun to fucking insanely awesome, just how it was intended to be played.

Sega get mad props for that, nobody cares about PAL territories but they were the first (I think) to tackle this ridiculous issue which pretty much made our games play like shit.

I mean I was playing sonic for years and years and those iconic tunes were just soooo off, I grew up loving that shit then one day I heard what that shit was MEANT to sound like and I felt like my life was a lie

 

[AppleSeason]

can you believe 50hz games are still a thing? YES.. those classic games coming out on ps3/ps4 are still 50hz in europe.

I used to buy lots of nstc psx games for my ps3, but then Vita and the single account thing happened. To this day I'm still tempted to reset it to factory settings and add my us account once I am done with Persona 4 Golden.

 

[xevis]

In my experience Streets of Rage and Revenge of Shinobi both suffer frustrating PAL slowdown, though both are still playable. PAL Strider on the other hand is so crippled as to be straight up garbage.

 

[Roxas]

Playing Final Fantasy IX with 15 fps in battles at 50hz was just fucking ungodly bad.

 

[yoonshik]

Look at this shit.

At least they gave us the best version (content wise).

 

[lazygecko]

US gamers can even get a taste of 50hz with the digital release of Alien Soldier. The only localized version was the PAL one since the game was not released in the US, so that's the version Sega picked for the digital releases.

At least on the Steam Workshop you can mod it to 60hz now.

 

[GlamFM]

All of them, really.

Never knew about 50hz back in the day when I bought my super Nintendo.

Sent it back after a week and imported a US one.

Thankfully my Sony TV supported 60hz.

 

[kungfuweapon]

PAL Devil may Cry was a quite popular case back in the day. It got a lot of bashing in some European magazines/websites (at least on the Spanish ones I used to check back then) because of its mediocre conversion.

If I recall correctly, Sega had been doing a great PAL conversion job with most of Dreamcast games and when PS2 came out, the first batch of titles geared towards crappy letterboxed 50 Hz (Onimusha was also a stinker), which caused the rage of many users.

Apparently the case of DMC caused a lot of internal awareness in Capcom because after that one they became one of the most committed companies with quality PAL conversions.

Myself? I just had to import the US versions of DMC and Onimusha... Yes, they were THAT bad.

 

[AzureSkies]

Shin Megami Tensei: Lucifer's Call (Nocturne's PAL release), and Digital Devil Saga 1&2 have very poor PAL conversions. The last time I played DDS, I had to play it by console as PCSX2 would frequently lock up playing the PAL version.

Persona 4 is very lazily stretched in the PAL release to remove the borders. I believe that in-game time is also calculated wrong (caused by skipped frames). Square Enix did a very lazy conversion versus Koei's excellent Persona 3 conversion.

 

[jelly]

Maybe not the same thing but Halo CE stuttered in PAL60 mode on the original Xbox so 50hz mode was preferable but annoyingly all the other games were great in PAL60 mode so I had to switch between them. They ballsed up Halo CE for some reason.

 

[AppleSeason]

Shin Megami Tensei: Lucifer's Call (Nocturne's PAL release), and Digital Devil Saga 1&2 have very poor PAL conversions. The last time I played DDS, I had to play it by console as PCSX2 would frequently lock up playing the PAL version.

Lucifer's call has a selector, and at least DDS2 has it too(I can't remember the first one). I don't remember having any issues while playing them.

 

[Prime crotch]

SMT3 PAL, like most late PS2 titles, had a mode selector.

 

[AzureSkies]

Lucifer's call has a selector, and at least DDS2 has it too(I can't remember the first one). I don't remember having any issues while playing them.

Lucifer's call 50hz version suffers from a lot of lockups, but the 60hz version is fine I believe.

The first DDS unfortunately doesn't have a PAL60 version, and can suffer from pretty bad sound desync issues.

 

[Dunkley]

Persona 3 and Persona 4 have awful PAL conversions. The game runs around 20% slower due to the 25fps cap instead of intended 30fps lock and everything from menus opening, to dialogue boxes opening, all the way to the calculation of ingame time (which counts slower too meaning savegames display an incorrect playtime)

The reason I got a HDTV Loader and later on GSM is just so I can play these games at 60hz without having to resort to emulation or importing an NTSC PS2 and games, and I'm glad I did. It was frankly awful to play this after NTSC version videos got me interested.

 

[liquidtmd]

man, I remember the day I bought a new TV purely because PAL Dreamcast games had a 60hz option... first game I tested was crazy taxi and it blew... my ... mind!!

the game went from fun to fucking insanely awesome, just how it was intended to be played.

Sega get mad props for that, nobody cares about PAL territories but they were the first (I think) to tackle this ridiculous issue which pretty much made our games play like shit.

I mean I was playing sonic for years and years and those iconic tunes were just soooo off, I grew up loving that shit then one day I heard what that shit was MEANT to sound like and I felt like my life was a lie

.

Dreamcast and Segas approach to PAL in that era really marked a shift in approach after a decade + of shit

 

[Jonneh3003]

Retro games that aren't butchered in their PAL discussions would probably be more worth bringing up. Thunder Force IV was one of the few PAL conversions that was handled with true care.

I remember the PAL version of Super Mario Bros. 1 I had was really strange in that the music actually ran faster than the NTSC version.

I don't think that's right. Super Mario Bros in PAL is slower in every way.

Edit: oh no you are right, most of my NES games are NTSC imports which I play on my PAL NES, guess it must be faster on an actual PAL cart.

This is what I'm used to: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBGcOCrHymI

 

[soxinthebox]

Ive been testing a few n64 games on my Everdrive comparing the PAL versions that I'm familiar with to the NTSC versions and those I have tried run smoother which is kinda cool to have a way to get better performance out of traditionally low fps n64 games.
Are there any examples of PAL n64 games performing better than NTSC?

Snowboard Kids NTSC ran smoother and scaled better on UltraHDMI if you were interested in a specific example.

 

[ShiroAmakusa]

Oh boy, playing on the Nintendo 64 was cruel here in Europe.

I started out with friends on a Japanese import console. Mario 64, Pilotwings, Mario Kart and Starfox were a blast to play. When the European N64 released about a year later, the games just didn't feel right. Everything was slower than I was used to for months.

And don't get me started on that self-censored Mario Kart 64 port. I don't mind having no "Marlboro" ads on some race track banners but I was pissed about Wario's new voice (sounds like a hoarse parrot) and the removal of his "So ein Mist!" (basically "Damn it!") voice sample. This just added to the slower experience MK64 PAL was compared to the NTSC version.

Everyday is school day-edit:

Apparently there has been a discussion about Wario yelling "D'oh I missed!" or "So ein Mist!" but Thomas Spindler, the voice actor for Wario in the west, confirmed it to be the latter.
Makes sense: You don't yell "D'oh I missed" after being hit by a turtle shell.

 

[zoukka]

Look at this shit.

At least they gave us the best version (content wise).

NOOOOOOO

The memories haunt me still. On the PAL bonus disc you had FOOTAGE OF THE NTSC VERSION just to taunt us PAL peasants. Fuck it was disgusting.

 

[Stevey]

Sure its bad now, but actually growing up with these games in the UK and not knowing any different made it a non issue.

 

[NXGamer]

Look at this shit.

At least they gave us the best version (content wise).

This is true, it was a Terrible plight at the time and why myself and many turned to the import scene.

It gets worse though as my HUGE retro collection of hardware and games cost me thousands over the years mostly bought from new at launch. If I had to buy some of them now in this new retro market they would cost and arm and a leg and maybe a torso or two. Us Europeans got shafted six ways with the better resolution and colour being wasted most of the time AND we payed more then and now...forsaken!

 

[AppleSeason]

.

Dreamcast and Segas approach to PAL in that era really marked a shift in approach after a decade + of shit

Well, if you don't count games based on Windows CE that were stuck with 50hz, even if japanese.

 

[shouamabane]

Does 50hz improve any games?

 

[Jonneh3003]

Does 50hz improve any games?

Sometimes the resolution is higher and sometimes effects are better. The first boss in Sonic 1 has a better looking rotating ball in 50hz

 

[OnionPowder]

I've never been more proud to be american than right now

 

[BGBW]

Devil May Cry on PS2.

Black bars + slower game = Kamiya's masterpiece ruined.

I was late to the PS2 party and I picked that up after hearing it was one of the best titles for the system. Oh dear. Good thing it was a cheap second hand copy.

 

[Hesemonni]

*garyoldmaneveryone.gif*

I remember playing FF7 at my friends PAL PSX back then and wondering what the hell was wrong with his copy since it was all kinds of sluggish. I imported my copies from the US to play them early (for a hefty price tag I might add) but I didn't know what was the reason they ran like shit

One of the best things about HD era is that we got rid of NTSC/PAL problems.

 

[Rellik]

I never knew what 50hz or 60hz even was back then. I was too young to know or care. but even I could tell Sonic was sluggish.

 

[Jonneh3003]

I've never been more proud to be american than right now

You don't know how much money I've spent on American imports and American systems. Not only that but games are ususally cheaper in NTSC than PAL. For instance Symphony of the Night is like £100 here.

 

[11redder]

Devil May Cry on PS2.

Black bars + slower game = Kamiya's masterpiece ruined.

Came to post this. The worst thing was the demo included with Code Veronica X ran in full screen and at full speed, giving PAL gamers a tantalising glimpse of the true experience.

The PAL version of RE:Make included both 50 and 60hz modes (as was fairly common at the time), the former was terribly unoptimised - it felt like running through molasses. I felt sorry for anyone without a 60hz compatible set.

 

[iidesuyo]

Wave Race 64 was hell.

17fps + fat bars.

 

[shiyrley]

Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask. The base framerate of those games is 20 FPS on NTSC. On PAL...it's 17 FPS. With black bars.

 

[Xpliskin]

Devil May Cry PS2


I remember the online backlash.

Has to import the JP version which I still have.

 

[BGBW]

Most recent examples I can think of are Madworld and Little Kings Story on the Wii. Both 50hz exclusive, but ran full speed, but didn't use the entire screen resolution. So you were left with a terrible looking image for hours on end because HDTVs just don't scale and deinterlace that properly. Still baffled by the lack of support in those two games. Especial because both were released year after the other versions and the Wii fully supports 60hz right out of the gate.

Madworld is awful. By that point 60Hz was becoming pretty standard in Pal territories, even to the point that some games were 60Hz only. Bought that day one too. This title would eventually be available for less than a fiver. Slightly soured me on Platinum. Not a good debut.

With Little King Story it at least didn't feel as obvious.

Looking back I know my PAL SNES was gimped, but I was oblivious back then so it made no impact on me. However it basically killed any interest in me getting into retro collecting because I saw no point paying high prices for PAL SNES games when they were subpar products.

 

[wazoo]

Madworld is awful. By that point 60Hz was becoming pretty standard in Pal territories, even to the point that some games were 60Hz only.

Metroid Prime 2 on GC was 60HZ only, I think.

 

[Occam]

All of them.

(Unless like many Amiga games they were programmed on and for 50Hz systems.)

 

[CrazyArcadia]

Dreamcast was an eye-opener for me. I did not really know about the 50hz/60hz PAL/NTSC stuff before that, yet after starting up PC gaming in the mid 90s, console games felt slower and strange in comparison.

After Dreamcast, I went on importing a lot of games during the PS2-era just to get a 60hz version (e.g. Devil May Cry; Final Fantasy X International jp. with English subs).

I am really pissed that retro games on Virtual Console and PSN mostly use the 50hz versions and don't even give you an option to download the US versions instead (I mean I kinda get the argument of "reliving the games as you remember them", but I would rather reexperience the games as they were meant to be played instead).

Almost every game suffered through the 50hz. Slower paced platform games, they're still OK, but everything fast paced or timing sensitive and racing games and fighting games, they were a lot worse.

Most of all, though, RPGs. Now in theory, they should suffer the least because hey, slow tactical turn based games a little bit slower? No biggie, right? Yeah, as a teen, I did not care that much, but the slower flow of time and sometimes longer loading times and longer battles add up and make these games feel longer, more repetitive and even kinda sluggish. A neat, speedy 40-50 hour RPG gets bumped up to 60, 70+ hours? No, thank you. And pancake face Yuna in Final Fantasy X was made fun of, a lot

 

[wazoo]

I am really pissed that retro games on Virtual Console and PSN mostly use the 50hz versions and don't even give you an option to download the US versions instead (I mean I kinda get the argument of "reliving the games as you remember them", but I would rather reexperience the games as they were meant to be played instead).

Real reason is always money (you do not have to pay for certification of games if you release the same version) or rules (50HZ version are often multi lingual).

 

[Recall]

So what was the deal with Sega and their Dreamcast? First time I'd ever played a console that gave me options so often to allow for 60hz playback.

 

[MrT-Tar]

Castlevania's is always pretty cringworthy too

 

[Recall]

Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask. The base framerate of those games is 20 FPS on NTSC. On PAL...it's 17 FPS. With black bars.

And we still survived.

 

[iidesuyo]

So what was the deal with Sega and their Dreamcast? First time I'd ever played a console that gave me options so often to allow for 60hz playback.

Because SEGA and Dreamcast were awesome!

 

[11redder]

.

Dreamcast and Segas approach to PAL in that era really marked a shift in approach after a decade + of shit

Yup. The lack of a 60hz option on many (most) PS2 games was galling coming from Dreamcast.

The GameCube and Xbox both included 50/60hz options for a lot of games. Some late generation first party games on the GC dropped 50hz completely (TTYD being one I think). But as you say, kudos to Sega for being the first to tackle the issue in any meaningful way.

Bizarrely, setting Xbox to output 60hz resulted in Halo CE playing like shit. I thought I had wasted €500+ and that MS had moneyhatted a 10 from Edge, until I switched to 50hz mode after the first level.

 

[Garibaldi]

I remember playing Sonic way back on my Mega Drive. I played an emulated version a few years back and it was basically unplayable by me because of the speed increase in the proper version.

 

[Recall]

Because SEGA and Dreamcast were awesome!

Preach!

 

[Englebert3rd]

Well, if you don't count games based on Windows CE that were stuck with 50hz, even if japanese.

Resident Evil 2 had a massive 50-60hz list selection and that was based on Windows CE.

 

[matrix-cat]

Finally getting to play DMC1 at the proper speed in the HD Collection was fantastic. And the change in controls (no longer having to jump with Triangle) didn't hurt either

 

[Zhao_Yun]

Look at this shit.

At least they gave us the best version (content wise).

Bad memories...

Actually this thread is making me order the remaster of FFX although I didn't plan to. Not my favorite FF, but if I should ever replay it, I definitely don't want to play my PS2 copy.