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Games with large Skill Gaps
- Thread starter Bornstellar
- Start date
I'm a big fan of Halo but while it has a relatively big skillgap compared to most other console shooters it really doesn't compare to fighting games, MOBAs, RTSs and a lot of PC shooters.
killatopak
Member
Dota and LoL are most prominent for me.
JackAubrey
Member
This.
When I read posts from folks struggling to drive in something as forgiving as Horizon 2 even with driver aids on and claim cars have no grip - I wonder if they are trying to play with their nose or something.
Since the most common and representative examples have already been mentioned, I'll (non) contribute to this thread with:
Chess 2: The Sequel
It's like regular chess, but in the form of a sequel. I assume that the skills you acquired in Chess 1 (aka regular chess) translate pretty well to Chess 2.
Chess 2: The Sequel
It's like regular chess, but in the form of a sequel. I assume that the skills you acquired in Chess 1 (aka regular chess) translate pretty well to Chess 2.
Comfort Jones
Banned
Melee. High level Fox play is some of the most tech intensive shit on the planet. Not to mention the way people play has changed radically from how it started due to how much room for growth the game naturally has.
mcz117chief
Member
Definitely these + Counter Strike and both Starcraft games
killatopak
Member
I really think MOBAs take the cake here.
If you think about how much time needed to master a single hero and the variation to play that hero then it's already an excruciatingly large amount of time.
And then you multiply that by a hundred because there's around a hundred of them plus the constant updates changes the meta real quickly. One hero could be GOAT today and be worst the next.
Yep those two too. I think them surviving this long means that there's a lot of room for growth. I can't think of any other games that compare.
Edit: Just watched The Flash vid of him in BW. WTF dem macros...
If you think about how much time needed to master a single hero and the variation to play that hero then it's already an excruciatingly large amount of time.
And then you multiply that by a hundred because there's around a hundred of them plus the constant updates changes the meta real quickly. One hero could be GOAT today and be worst the next.
Yep those two too. I think them surviving this long means that there's a lot of room for growth. I can't think of any other games that compare.
Edit: Just watched The Flash vid of him in BW. WTF dem macros...
iconoclast
Member
Most arcade STGs with complex scoring systems have enormous gaps between WR-level players and people who are just starting out. (Hell, there's usually an enormous gap between a WR-level player and somebody who can reach 75% of their score.) That's especially true when it comes to games that attract 'specialists', aka people who primarily focus on one game instead of branching out and dominating the entire genre. Some examples of that would be Ketsui, Battle Garegga, and Dodonpachi Daioujou. SPS, Kamui, and HFD respectively have spent god knows how many thousands of hours playing those games. I can't even begin to imagine how long it would take for a complete beginner to get anywhere near their levels, lol.
Ok,This is an impressive show of skill.
PhantomZone
Member
Fifa
mcz117chief
Member
You can always, technically, list all the games that derive from these 4 (5) games. Also, almost every game where there is very little emphasis on luck can be added here
Oh man, don't remind me. I recently got Verdict Day and the amount of butt whopping I got hardly compares to anything I have ever played. Part of it is because their cores were a lot better than mine I suppose.
Playing on the easiest possible setting doesn't say anything other than you played on the easiest possible setting. The game playing itself for you also severely limits your options and makes for much sloppier displays than settings with full player control (and wastes no time squandering resources).
Canis lupus
Member
Yep, this one.
cardinalmind
Member
I think I've watched that GM Vid close to three times now but I'm still amazed everytime I watched it.
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RTS games for me.
Puzzle & Dragons (no, seriously)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mrkj8tlhZTE
There's an astronomically high skill ceiling inherent to the puzzling, it's just one that requires you to have a savant level of pattern awareness and whatnot. The Paprika guy above isn't human like the vast majority of us.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mrkj8tlhZTE
There's an astronomically high skill ceiling inherent to the puzzling, it's just one that requires you to have a savant level of pattern awareness and whatnot. The Paprika guy above isn't human like the vast majority of us.
Beren the Empty-Handed
Member
Noobs get obliterated immediately and repeatedly.
Meanwhile the pros do 1-1-8 runs (getting the minimum experience necessary to beat the game, giving you attack and health stats of 1, the same amount you start with).
I think its worth noting that talking about the difference between a complete green player and an elite level competitor isn't the same as talking about the difference between general beginners and general experienced players. You don't have to be at the very top tier of competition in order to be an 'experienced' player.
Like, many games I see here are the sort that I would classify as 'easy to pick up, hard to master'. So yea, you might see a large skill gap between a beginner and an elite player with these. But, other games are 'difficult to pick up, even more difficult to master'. This is where I think you see the biggest skill gaps between beginners and experienced players. Beginners are notable not just because they're 'not great', but because they can barely play the game at all.
Like, many games I see here are the sort that I would classify as 'easy to pick up, hard to master'. So yea, you might see a large skill gap between a beginner and an elite player with these. But, other games are 'difficult to pick up, even more difficult to master'. This is where I think you see the biggest skill gaps between beginners and experienced players. Beginners are notable not just because they're 'not great', but because they can barely play the game at all.
pantsonhead
Member
No ones said Dwarf Fortress yet, I'm going with that.
It's a matter of your AC design vs there's and your skill in using your design to the max. Since they added in various armors strength to weapons, sometimes you can be mismatch with your armament so you just need to change it or have a few AC designs ready. It's hard to have 1 AC for all occasions versus the older games.
Yaphett Kotto
Member
FPS games. You can tell when someone has inexperience, is getting his way around, or has valuable experience.
Like, in CoD, if someone can tell where you are from the collision noise in BO2 (running into a van) grass rustling in MW2, they are most likely a threat.
Like, in CoD, if someone can tell where you are from the collision noise in BO2 (running into a van) grass rustling in MW2, they are most likely a threat.
ubersticky
Member
RE5 tbh
Storm Raider
Banned
Resistance: Fall of Man required as pretty large amount of skill. 11 head shots with the Carbine baby. 4 kills with a clip if you knew what you were doing.
I think you can only compare it to console fps games, where it is pretty clear it has the highest skill gap
obviously if you compare it to quake 3 or counter strike then it'll fall flat
If it's not so complex, why are you level 27 in halo 3.
Anyways, fighting games have the biggest skillcap no contest.
KefkaPalazzo
Member
Project M.
How does his brain even process that? I can't even begin to imagine being able to play like that...
Deified Data
Banned
Dark Souls PVP. It's usually obvious in first few seconds of a fight how experienced your opponent is. Equipment can go a long way in revealing that, but not nearly as much as the actions one takes in the first few seconds of engagement.
Using X-box/controller and then PC/Keyboard and Mouse isn't the best comparison or point.
krameriffic
Member
More impressive than I was expecting, but to me it's like a Rubik's Cube or Chess. It's purely mechanical and algorithmic at some point. There is a clearly defined, mathematically calculable "perfect" way to play it. It's simply not complex enough, not enough factors are present to make it as impressive as something like Starcraft, where you cannot possibly take into account all factors at all times to play it "perfectly".
Poker Face
Member
I don't think any console shooters really come close to Halo CE. Can't really the say the same about later Halo games, but CE has some crazy high level play.
The Shogun
Banned
No way. A good Halo 2 team that knows weapon spawn times and map control and work together are nearly unbeatable except for other top ranked player's.
Halo 2 and 3 to some extent have huge skill gaps.
abstract alien
Member
The Wonderful 101 had the biggest skill gap I've ever seen in any action game by a country ass mile.
I'm not saying Halo doesn't have any skill gap at all. But there are just so many games that have a higher skill gap, imo, that it doesn't make sense to bring it up in this thread as an example of a game with high skill gap. I mean there is a great difference between a bad and a great TF2 player, but games like Brood War or Q3 are just on another level.